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DISCUSSIONWhat do you wish you had known earlier about male sexuality? (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by thenytrilogy

... and what kind of advice/resources would you give/recommend to someone inexperienced?

EDIT: lots of great answers and insight, thank you everyone!


[–]nukessolveprblms 70 points71 points  (1 child)

I’ll just tell you this story: Early in my marriage, I knew how much my husband loved me, and i wouldn’t have phrased it this way at the time but I took his love for granted. I was demanding, emotionally immature, naggy, etc.

One day my parents were visiting and me and husband got in an argument about the new dog. He wanted to introduce dog one way and I thought he was doing it wrong, and after verbal exchanges, ended up shouting at him and publicly criticizing him. He got quiet and upset and threw the leash on the ground and just ceded to me, and I was able to introduce dog how I wanted.

My mom pulled me aside after their visit and said if I want a mean husband to be a mean wife. And that he will learn from me how to react and respond.

So how this relates to sexuality: attraction starts outside of the bedroom. I would give the same advice to any newly wed or couple, because since that time, I’ve definitely changed, primarily by becoming submissive and practicing STFU even when I think I’m right (newsflash: you’re not always right and there’s more than one right way to do things!) and the way our relationship has grown since then has been amazing. That incident happened a couple months into marriage, and now we are celebrating 5yrs in a few weeks and are still affectionate and loving with each other.

[–]lespetiteschoses 9 points10 points  (0 children)

that's great advice from your mother :)

i heard a similar sentiment put differently when i was single - "stop trying to find the right partner and focus on being the right partner". it worked a treat!

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 121 points122 points  (19 children)

You might think that men will always be interested in you no matter what. Generally speaking, this has truth to it. The default position may be a state of interest. However, once you successfully turn him off, good luck turning back the clock. It's possible if you haven't gone too far, but it's very difficult.

The more hoops he has to jump through, the more nagging and criticizing you do, the more you reject his advances, the more demanding you are, the more he'll become turned off from you.

Here's how communication of issues goes for many many married men. There's an issue that's bothering him so he raises the issue with his wife. Wife immediately starts arguing against everything he said. He shrugs his shoulders. After this happens several times, he gives up on trying to bring anything that's bothering him to her attention.

Alternatively, the husband starts communication through action, but is just shooed away. Again, he gives up on trying and withdraws. An example of this - he starts being extra sweet and caring, thinking that she must be unloving/bitchy/etc because she can use some more TLC. She takes his kindness for granted and nothing changes. She's still as uninterested in sex as ever, still nags and criticizes, still makes demands and still takes everything for granted. He pulls back and then she wonders what happened.

Men are biologically programmed to provide and protect and desire their women. This means he's biologically programmed to bend over backwards for your every wish. To be the BP simp everyone loves to hate. It's only when this is shoved back in his face by a woman that refuses sex more and more often as she takes his kindness more and more for granted, that he'll become RP and wake up to reality. You may still be able to wake up at this point but maybe not.

Men don't redpill other men, women redpill men.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 20 points21 points  (1 child)

    You're right. Mental illness can be a real drain as well.

    Many people are very accepting of people with a mental illness until they actually live with one. The entitlement and not taking responsibility for their actions is usually how sufferers of mental illness kill their own relationships. Then they blame it on the spouse which is such a shame.

    [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    It's only when this is shoved back in his face by a woman that refuses sex more and more often as she takes his kindness more and more for granted, that he'll become RP and wake up to reality.

    This is when even good men can be tempted to cheat. And it's hard to blame them.

    [–]glitterchild 6 points7 points  (8 children)

    Man, this hit me hard and was really discouraging. But I’m not denying it’s truth! After all, I didn’t swallow the pill for comfort. I’m curious what advice would you give someone who has gone really far in that direction but can’t tell for sure if she’s gone too far?

    [–]JBo4Three 14 points15 points  (5 children)

    Reverse course. Be submissive and accommodating. Don’t expect immediate results. Be patient. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    [–]glitterchild 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Thank you for the point about being patient. I know it’s not something to expect immediate results on but it’s kind of hard not to.

    [–]20160474 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    New to RPW. I'm already naturally submissive and I feel like men just take advantage of me. My friends all advise me to be "bitchier." Not sure what to do with all the conflicting info

    [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    vetting , vetting , vetting

    And here is the rest of the sidebar. Bitchy isn't the alternative to overly-submissive. You must learn to be assertive and pick a man who you can trust.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    My friends all advise me to be "bitchier."

    Your friends are wrong. Bitchiness gets you automatic transfer to the other list of non-candidates for the prestigious position of wife/mother to a man's future children.

    Start by clearly stating upfront your intent for marriage. Select a man who you find attractive, has shared interests and life-goals, who is responsible, a man of character and integrity, loyal, understands follow-thorough/promises, and holds himself 100% accountable for what he either does or doesn't do - but most importantly WANTS to be a husband/father and establish a legacy with a great woman.

    You have to be the "great and exceptional woman," perform/demonstrate confirmation of these capabilities, and be worthy of such a man.

    That's much better than bitchiness. It's unnecessary and results in negative outcomes.

    See also - Sidebar Reading...

    [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I'm already naturally submissive and I feel like men just take advantage of me.

    There's a huge difference between boundaries and bitchiness. Give what you are willing to give, stop when you are done, and cut the takers out of your life. It's really that simple.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    My advice would be to go really far in the positive direction. Really far in action, not in empty promises.

    You'll still mess up and that's okay as long as you take responsibility and make amends with action (not just with more empty words. Words are important but they must be followed by actions).

    As long as he's still with you, give it all you got!

    [–]glitterchild 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Thank you, I’ve been working on this, this is a great reminder.

    [–]midnightspecial99 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Thank you for spelling shoo correctly. Too many people write shoe.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    🙂

    [–]coin_pwr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    However, once you successfully turn him off, good luck turning back the clock. It's possible if you haven't gone too far, but it's very difficult.

    The more hoops he has to jump through, the more nagging and criticizing you do, the more you reject his advances, the more demanding you are, the more he'll become turned off from you.

    As a man, couldn't agree more with this. Once the switch has been turned off, it's very very hard to re-spark it ever again.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    This. It’s as if women sense when they have gone too far. They are nice for a few days, maybe suggest a romantic mini vacation and think all should be well. By that time you truly despise her. It’s hard to undo those kinds of feelings.

    [–]RedDespair 71 points72 points  (30 children)

    We have a “bug” in our brain that lets us know within 2 seconds (sometimes even less!) if we are open to a sexual relationship and what kind of relationship it is going to be with the person we are watching.

    Many women claim that they are visual, but nothing compares to this.

    We are programmed to do this and we can’t do anything about it. We are born with it. Our sexual preference is tied to this, whether you are gay or a pedophile. It’s set in stone.

    So when a woman wins us over, usually we had the door open long before she ever thought that it would be possible.

    We are ridiculed by modern society for having this. So we hide it. We hide it really good. Only some women get this.

    For most straight males, 2 things that affect significantly this is a woman’s age and weight.

    Fat acceptance and post wall women cannot beat our biology. That’s why every argument that’s made against this is automatically ignored

    [–]pisellipod 38 points39 points  (1 child)

    This is really interesting how short of time it takes (literally proves how sexual attraction works for men - one glance is either YES or NO) and you put it very concisely and how important it is to be visual.

    And to be honest, it really doesn't take much to get that "sexual look" from men. Have a healthy BMI, leave your hair long, wear attractive clothes, wear some makeup and jewelry, maybe paint your nails, be hygienic - and literally all those triggers do it for men. You don't even need to have a perfectly symmetrical face or "neotonous" look or thin vs thick eyebrows or cateye vs smoky eye makeup. A woman can look incredibly sexual in a simple form fitting t-shirt, jeans that show her legs/ass, and sneakers - as long as she's at a healthy weight, has feminine hair, wears some makeup and jewelry AND THAT'S IT.

    For women it takes much longer - seeing what kind of person he is, how intelligent, social standing, ability to be chivalrous and treat her well, his family values, his financial stability....takes a few hours to get this information (assuming you aren't just firing interview questions one right after another).

    [–]CraziAces 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Automatically ignored "lmao"

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ditto...

    [–]Mildly_maria 7 points8 points  (22 children)

    If a woman were to be overweight when a man met her, but lost a significant amount of weight by the next time he saw her, would his brain reassess her? Or when he still view her as he did when he first saw her?

    [–]RedDespair 21 points22 points  (10 children)

    Reassess her without a doubt.

    It’s so easy for women to become attractive (biology is on your side) and yet so many still believe the old “he must like me for who I am” while wasting most of their fertile years being overweight or unattractive.

    The irony is that even that special someone who you probably like, is still a man and has the same “bug” in his mind.

    This is the first step in getting a man. The second is commitment which depends on character. Increase your odds by reading RPW. I can’t tell you how jealous I get whenever I read a good post on RPW about how a woman treats her man.

    But you can’t get to the second step unless you pass the first one.

    Something to note is that some men have really low standards when in comes to the first one. This gives a false impression to unattractive women that they are desired and yet they never get commitment.

    I know a lot of fatties that rode the cock carousel and yet none would stick with them.

    [–]Mildly_maria 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    I want to clarify: I ask out of curiosity, not because I’m in this situation. I met my BF in college and we’ve been together for nearly two years. I do follow a lot of advice from this sub; we’re very happy and I take care of him well.

    [–]RedDespair 9 points10 points  (8 children)

    I am simply stating facts. Not judging you. From personal experience.

    As a matter of fact, I remember last year I met this woman who had gotten out of a relationship, with an ex-coworker of mine. I met her after I left that work and I knew nothing about their relationship. I could see why she was attracted to me as I had a lot of qualities her ex had. She had a perfect face with perfect features. My ideal face for a woman.

    And yet I disqualified her seconds after seeing her, even though we ended up talking for a few minutes and realizing who she was. She was simply overweight for my bug.

    I can't tell her that. That would be rude. But biology doesn't care. I have no choice in this.

    [–]sheikha4teddies 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    Just out of curiosity, how overweight is overweight? Obviously obese is unattractive, but a nice ample booty is OK? Do women absolutely need stick thin figures or some meat on the hips/thighs are OK (assuming that stomach is generally flat). Keep in mind BMI numbers are tricky because there are athletic bodies that have more muscle tone but less fat.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    ...how overweight is overweight?

    Hanging gut, excess backfat, flabby arms, double/extra chins(s), a basic oversized body that can be determined from a distance...as the view does not get better as the distance closes.

    Average-thin is best - no need to be a hard-body, but a feminine shape WITH natural curves that looks good in a dress/jeans and nice blouse combo works wonders. Key word here is "proportional" in the overall look and body type.

    Of note is the fact there are some women who can pull of the curvy and slightly heavier look, but in the same vein this body type appeals to a smaller number of males.

    ...but a nice ample booty is OK?

    Yes - but I refer you to remarks on curvy/slightly heavier look and natural curves that looks good in a dress/jeans and nice blouse combo. It's variable to each individual male, but this is a workable situation.

    Too skinny gets less approval, but there are some men who still desire that type frame.

    I suspect most women are working from these same/similar parameters when viewing a prospective male.

    [–]Nkazio 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    This.

    Overweight is not a complex concept. Look in the Mirror. if your belly goes over your belt, you have a problem. The further it goes, the more of a problem it is. same goes for flabby arms. The 'Hourglass' shape men love so much is generally nothing else then then average female body with no excess fat on it.

    [–]RedDespair 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    Don't look at the skinny models on the catwalk which were put on display by gay men. Though skinny doesn't turn me off. Fat however does.

    To fully understand the ideal, one has nothing better to do than look at porn. Which market is dominated by men. Which is good news cause most men want some meat

    [–]party_dragon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    That depends on the man. My ideal body type is thigh gap, small-ish ass, bikini bridge, flat tummy with abs slightly visible.

    [–]mwait 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I've never heard it called a bikini bridge before... but I immediately knew exactly what you were talking about.

    [–]party_dragon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It’s all the outrage among feminists.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You would see her as she is now with a thought in the back of your mind that she could revert back very easily. That being said, former fat girls turned hot are very high on my list and get a lot of respect. You get the hot girl that is humble and works really hard and sacrifices. They see the world differently because they did not grow up with the built in advantages most hot girls don’t even know they benefit from on a daily basis.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    If a woman were to be overweight when a man met her, but lost a significant amount of weight by the next time he saw her, would his brain reassess her? Or when he still view her as he did when he first saw her?

    A little bit of both.

    The eye sees the current woman and finds her attractive. The mind remembers the old version and finds her repulsive. From here on it's a toss up, which perspective will prevail.

    Some men will lean stronger in one direction, some can consciously move towards one direction.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    ...overweight...but lost a significant amount of weight...

    This is a tricky situation in that while a man can appreciate the effort in losing excess weight, it will make the difference once the clothes come off or when viewed from swimsuit/bikini-mode.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    That's true.

    Another thing is - if you ballooned before you're likely to balloon again and even if you'll keep it off forever, you already lost a degree of sexual value that is on a base level and isn't always 100% rational.

    [–]glitterchild 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    If you keep it off forever how have you already lost value? I’d think if anything you gained value...

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Logically, you may be right. This isn't logical though, it's a visceral reaction.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Again - I refer you to being "stark naked" in front of a man or either in a bikini/swimsuit.

    Weight loss and keeping it off is great, but it doesn't "burn that clean."

    Most men make a decision based on those parameters and direct visuals. Almost no one ever knows how it will work out until the clothes come off.

    Best practices is to keep the weight under "reasonable control" (and specific to that man's desires/preferences).

    Key note: Assuming you're the wife, if you go through the trouble of bearing and taking care of his children, you get huge-mega points and are allowed a bit of latitude in how a man views, perceives, appreciates, and accepts a woman's body.

    [–]mwait 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I haven't seen it mentioned, so I want to point something out.

    Gaining weight leads to an increase in the number of fat cells in the body and an increase in the size of those cells. When you lose weight, those cells shrink in size... but they do not disappear. Thus, someone who was very overweight but then lost weight will have a larger number of fat cells than someone who has been slim their entire life.

    This creates small fat deposits that are very hard to get rid of. You'll notice that formerly obese people will have a slight bit of a double chin, or a slight pooch around the belly, or a little bit of extra arm fat, etc, despite maintaining an identical diet/exercise regimen to their always-slim counterpart.

    And then you have the excess skin and stretch marks. If you have lost a substantial amount of weight, you will have excess skin. I have a friend who had surgery to remove the extra skin after having lost ~120lbs.

    The bottom line is that being substantially overweight at any point in your life will negatively affect your body from an aesthetic point of view.

    [–]lolahaze11 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I think he would reassess her because he would see how much hard work she put into working out and bettering herself, physically and mentally.

    [–]RedDespair 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I think he would reassess her

    You are correct, reassess her 100% of the time.

    he would see how much hard work she put into working out and bettering herself, physically and mentally.

    not quite the reason. It will be done automatically. Think of it as an app that runs in the back of our mind that we have no control over.

    However the logic part of our brain will appreciate hard work and consider her more for a long term option

    [–]MsAfrodisiac 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    When you say, “open to a sexual relationship” are you referring to love or lust? Alternatively, would you argue that, for men, love and lust are the same thing?

    [–]RedDespair 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    "Open to a sexual relationship” refers to lust mostly, but not always. Think of it as a spectrum that covers anything from "not visually repulsive" to full blown "sexual arousal". Most of the times the feeling of lust doesn't happen though. Think of it more of an instant disqualification process.

    No. Love and lust are two completely separate things for men.

    Lust can be instant for men. Look at porn and prostitutes where only visual stimulation is required for men.

    Love usually takes time for men. Ideally you'd like a woman who provides both. Love is mostly unconditional for most men and it hurts the relationship. We try to change that way of male thinking in TRP but I digress.

    for example: A man can have a mistress who he is fucking, but stays with his fat unattractive wife (who used to be attractive when he first met her) even though he cheats on her. He lusts his mistress but loves his wife.

    Love is valued more by women because it brings up commitment. This channel teaches how to invoke love in men.

    However, most men will not give love unless they feel lust for a woman. So you can't keep a man unless you first attract him.

    [–]WarViper1337 25 points26 points  (13 children)

    Just some tips from a mans perspective I have learned over the years. Please note this mostly applies to committed long term relationships with partners who know each other well.

    One of the most common things I found in LTR was that women would suddenly shift into the "I want you turn me on before I will have sex with you" OR "you haven't done enough for me today to earn sex". From an LTR perspective if you have to say this to your partner then something has already gone wrong somewhere in the relationship. Not only does it hurt his self esteem but rejecting sex just because he didn't meet whatever standards you set forth that day as "sexy" will quickly cause resentment to build up between the two of you. This is a relationship killer!

    One of the best things you can do to make your man feel extra manly and fulfill one of his core needs is to just submit to him sexually. Giving him that one aspect of life to control can be a total game changer since it satisfies one of his core needs. Obviously this should be done responsibly and I'm not saying there should never be a reason for either person to say no to sex.

    [–]sonnesatt 3 points4 points  (12 children)

    As we know, getting aroused takes a little more time in relationships that have been going on longer.

    How should a women ask to be turned on before Sex without hurting him?

    [–]WarViper1337 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    This answer turned out longer than I thought it would. Sorry for the wall of text haha.

    I think one of the most important things is establishing a clear line of communication in this aspect. A lot of people tend to shy away from talking about sex with their own partners when it is a very important aspect of the relationship and nobody should be embarrassed or think it is just a superficial act. I have noticed some people can fall into the assumption that their partner should "just know" what will turn them on at any given time. This is a terrible fantasy that modern media has imprinted on us but the facts show that even in a stable LTR there is no way you are going to know what your partner is thinking or feeling all the time.

    You may also need to clarify with yourself what it is that turns you on. Men usually need clear goals to work towards and not some nebulous idea that may or may not get them what they need. Be proactive and approach the situation in an open manner with him. Ask him "What can we do together to make our sex life better" and not "You need to do this or you won't get sex from me". The first quote is good because it now involves both of you working toward a goal that you both can clearly set the second quote is bad because it sets the precedent of sex being a one way street that he has no say in.

    Be genuine and consistent. When he does something that you find arousing just tell him outright. A man really enjoys knowing that what he did excited his woman. Be flirtatious with him. Flirtation is often taken for granted in an LTR and some flirtation can go a long way in getting things right for the bedroom. A couple of simple examples: You are excited by the fact that he maintains your home in a presentable manner and he may have spent a day of his weekend getting some of that work done. Let him know how aroused it made you feel and don't wait until the very end of the day while you laying in bed to tell him that, be sure to do it as soon as possible. Another example maybe that you need your emotional needs met to be turned on. You may have had a rough day at work or with the kids. He then spends some of his time to let you vent your emotions and really listen to you. Tell him how much you appreciate that and much it turns you on right away.

    One last thing to consider. Learn about your hormonal cycle. Every woman has it and it is nothing to be ashamed of and both you should know it and understand it. When you are near ovulation what you find sexy may differ drastically from when your approaching menstruation. Both of you should understand this well as it can let him know if he should focus more on your emotional needs or your more physical needs to turn you on. As always you should try to be as consistent as possible with this. Don't lead him on like he is doing something right and then deny him at the last minute. This is a two way street and both of you should be putting in effort to meet each others need.

    TL;DR

    Do: Set clear goals for both parties. Be consistent. Maintain open communication about sex. Learn your hormonal cycle and how your needs relate to it. Try something different every now and then with your partner to keep things fresh in the bed room.

    Do Not: Make sex a one way street. Use denial of sex as a tool to punish. Expect your partner to always know what you are thinking or feeling.

    [–]sonnesatt 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    This long answer is really thoughtful, thank you so very much for writing this out!

    I definitely have to improve on the immediate positive remarks. Despite having a good confidence I really struggle with communicating things I perceive as being me being needy. So taking on this perspective is really helpful :)

    Also I had to start taking anti depressants and they are starting to really affect my libido and overall me-ness, which is quite confusing Well, got off topic here, sorry...

    So again, thank you for your insight. I found it really hard to talk to anyone about this, as I didn't want anyone to link my issues to my SO, and now I feel a lot better about improving my communication

    [–]PhilNEvo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    If I may interject a little thing. If you have a lower sex-drive, which is not uncommon at all. You don't need to have sex, or get turned on, there is other ways to satisfy him, such as oral or hand.

    Satisfying a man often, will definitely improve his life. And if he feels satisfied and happy, he will most likely do what he can to satisfy you, in the ways you need, even if it isn't sex.

    On top of that, seeing your man naked, moaning, getting hard and so on, might even have an effect on you :)

    [–]sonnesatt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's kind of you to answer :)

    Thing is, I do not have a lower sex drive per se - due to my medication it now just takes me ages to get to that same level of physical arousal compared to before.

    And I don't know if you care but after dwelling on this for bit, I came to realize that I am quite embarrassed by this, as I am a very sexual person and take pride in being a non demanding partner. And apparently I took this embarrassment and convinced myself that my partner should just know what's up.

    That was not very smart. So now I try to leave my head and focus on being present instead of anxious and so far it helps. Concentrating on pleasing my SO is a good starting point too

    [–]WarViper1337 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Thanks. I work in health care so I understand your plight about the anti depressants and low libido. Be sure to work closely with your doctor to identify your core issue because many times a doctor is all to willing to just write out a prescription to keep customer satisfaction up. So many people expect a pill to solve their issues when it is really just masking it. I personally know some women who schedule a monthly visit with a counselor just to talk about their emotions and that is usually enough to keep them balanced without meds. A counselor is also usually fairly affordable if you shop around. You will have to weigh those options and the benefits/side effects to see what works best for you. There is no shame on staying on the medicine if it just works for you but you may have put in some extra effort to keep the libido up.

    [–]sonnesatt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thankfully I live in Germany, our health care system works quite different and I was thoroughly examined and have had/ continue to do therapy in various forms before ultimately deciding with my doctor to go this route for the time being.

    Thank you for being concerned though. And special thanks for working and helping where you do :)

    [–]LexGrom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Don't ask to build a sexual space for u, start building it for yourself. Create a fantasy which both of u can inhibit and welcome him in. If he declines, postpone and tweek it. Exploit Coolidge effect - play roles. Learn his fetishes

    Sex is spontaneous thing, honest sex talk can kill it for a time

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    How should a women ask to be turned on before Sex without hurting him?

    Same way he should motivate himself to continue working to provide for the family. Motivation for him to do so is internal, your receptivity to sex also needs to come from within your own mind.

    Additionally, we reward and punish people for the way they treat us. Stop and do a thorough soul searching and ask yourself - are you rewarding his desire for you or are you punishing him for it? Are you rewarding him for the work and effort he puts into you and the family or do you punish him for it?

    There's no in-between. You're either rewarding him or punishing him. Don't ask to be turned on, simply reward such behavior and you'll get more of it.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    So let me add some actionable ideas to what you are saying.

    It's unfair to expect the man to do all the work every time from start to finish. However, in my experience, it doesn't take too much effort to get a guy revved up. Sex is a give and take and if you give, he'll give back.

    • do your hair and make up and wear something sexy
    • put on lingerie or something slutty
    • walk in front of him naked before you get dressed
    • kiss him passionately
    • grab his butt
    • shake your ass for him
    • send him dirty texts, pictures, gifs whatever
    • whisper in his ear that you want him, want him to do things to you or whatever

    Do these things and continue on with your evening. You are putting an idea in his head and telling him that you want him. It doesn't matter in the slightest if you don't want him in that moment. He'll respond to you and the back and forth will get things going.

    And besides evoking a sexy response from him, some of these things alone may help you start to get turned on. I thoroughly enjoy getting dressed up with him in mind - it builds anticipation that is harder to come by in a long term relationship.

    [–]WarViper1337 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Absolutely fantastic advice!

    [–]sonnesatt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Before you answered I actually thought longer about it and then met up with my SO. I didn't bring it up because I figured that he deserves to be treated with thankfulness not concerns. And it totally worked :)

    Thank you for finding the right words though, the help me keep my mind on track

    [–]carefreevermillion2 Star 44 points45 points  (7 children)

    That men like to pursue, and reap the benefits of hard work. I always pursued relationships (and within those, sex) with men, and while they certainly found some aspects of that relieving, it can be emasculating to be "out-sexed" by your girl.

    I've entirely ceased overtly initiating in my current relationship, and instead remain extremely open to his advances, patient when I don't get them in the timeframe I wanted, and offering more subtle signals of interest (like asking to go to bed early, wearing cute outfits or make up, giving him flirty looks) than I had been previously ("did you want to mess around later" is not sexy).

    He gets his masculine feeling of "I caught her" when he is immediately rewarded by my overwhelming enthusiasm, which of course only encourages him to chase me more often. The spill over from this positive sexual connection is profound, and gives us a much better base than we had previously.

    Even if you don't have the higher sex drive in your relationship, rewarding your man for wanting you makes him want to take care of you in all areas, and a good sex life makes other difficult aspects less trying.

    Geez, I wrote a novel. Tl;Dr: let your man be the man, and reward that.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]carefreevermillion2 Star 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      What exactly is your situation? Are you struggling with being the pursuer when you should be letting the man pursue?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]carefreevermillion2 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Well, why are you pressuring him? What makes that drive unrelenting?

        [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        +1 Star from u/loneliness-inc :-)

        [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        u/pearlsandstilettos IMO this comment should earn a star if it hasn't already.

        [–]carefreevermillion2 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thank you.

        [–]asteadyheart 16 points17 points  (1 child)

        Men like to be complimented. Especially told that they are handsome.

        We live in society where women are supposed to be complimented constantly. About their appearance, mind, interests, personality, etc.

        But men are only complimented if they look like a model. Men also have an ego that needs to he validated, and that's okay.

        It's not something I do all the time to random men, but it's something I make sure to do for my husband. It's a small part of what helps him know that he's still attractive and still adds to my life.

        When your man is naked in front of you, saying how amazing he looks will only add to the bedroom happiness... It doesn't make them weak for liking it, but it makes them stronger if they can hear it.

        [–]LexGrom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Especially told that they are handsome

        Speaking for myself, I'd prefer to be admired for my doings. For the bedroom time - "animal" over "good-looking" anytime

        [–]KleoStar777 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        I will try to be short, even though this can be hard to do. 1. You need to be a good partner in life, not only in bed. Try to be positive and give this positivity to your man, then he will love and value you much more. No sexual flames will shine if man doesn’t feel appreciated and his wife sounds like virago or a noisy old lady. 2. You can’t become a needy slave. Real woman also respects herself (as well, as her husband) and does not let anyone to use her as a floor rag. If you won’t respect yourself, then your man won’t respect you and, in the end, will lose interest, even sexual. I learned it a hard way

        [–]radical-trad 32 points33 points  (21 children)

        Beta men are sort of impossible sexually. By that I mean weak or insecure men who cater to women to get sex. I wish someone had told me that they will turn you into a demanding bitch and then blame you for it. They do this by literally spoiling you in exchange for their low-sexual market value (as the saying goes). I think it’s an unconscious bargain women are driven to make as we can’t all have the perfect guy, given our own resources. I’m a mental health professional and the guys who are the meanest and gaslight their women then most and withhold sex are the too brainy beta guys. They also project all their insecurities into their wives. Just whatever you do, don’t marry an insecure man. Your sex life will suffer but that won’t be the half of it. Additionally, all the pumping up in the world by woman will do nothing to transform these guys. They prefer to destroy the good woman. Beware. Tons of these guys in tech so their money can lure you in.

        [–]sheikha4teddies 8 points9 points  (18 children)

        I’m a mental health professional and the guys who are the meanest and gaslight their women then most and withhold sex are the too brainy beta guys. They also project all their insecurities into their wives. Just whatever you do, don’t marry an insecure man....Additionally, all the pumping up in the world by woman will do nothing to transform these guys....Tons of these guys in tech so their money can lure you in.

        I'm curious, can you elaborate more on this? Mostly because I dated a very jealous and insecure tech guy recently and I think I saw everything you just mentioned in our relationship. He was so insecure he became controlling and it went overboard. I couldn't even smile at people while talking in front of him because he was offended. And he did EXACTLY what you mentioned - gaslighted me, withheld sex...he was a smart man but had no sense of social interaction, therefore he relied on sexual attraction through 1) his job, 2) his body (very fit) and 3) control over the woman. It was bizarre. I also have a girlfriend who was very briefly married to a tech guy and same deal - MAJOR insecurities and jealousy.

        Can you explain why? There was an article (maybe on the Atlantic) about tech guys being angry because they were computer nerds and never had attention from women, then suddenly got a lot of attention SOLELY because of having an extremely lucrative job and the possibility of being rich. Then they became extremely misogynistic because they realized women just wanted them for money/status (which they now have) but were still angry because of all the lack of attention from their younger beta years from being a pasty basement dweller.

        A lot of tech guys are also slightly on the spectrum so that's probably why they've had so much trouble with women because of difficulty in social interaction.

        [–][deleted]  (12 children)

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          [–]sheikha4teddies 2 points3 points  (10 children)

          I love her more than anything but how do I know she isn't just settling for me? That's where the insecurity comes from.

          I find this specific comment extremely interesting because that's also EXACTLY what my tech ex boyfriend said: "I'm paranoid that I'm just someone who is convenient for you" - which I found extremely strange. I would always want to see him but for some reason he took it as "I don't have anything better to do so I'll go spend time with him." The insecurity was unbearable and I just couldn't understand why because he was incredibly smart and funny, and soon became controlling and misogynistic towards me.

          I know money/getting my shit together helped.

          Couldn't you say this about former fat girls who got their weight in check and started emphasizing their sexuality instead of their intelligence/career?

          "Why is she fucking me now and not when I was 19" is still in your head.

          May I ask how old you are? When did you lose your virginity?

          There is also the fear that deep down I am a very boring person (I like video games and history/politics) and she will realize that later on when we are married and leave.

          I could see this in him - he was someone that would always cater to what I wanted to do and wouldn't take me out to have fun, if that makes sense. I had boyfriends that would always show me new restaurants they discovered or take me jet skiing, and he was the opposite. He would basically just want to know what I wanted to do and go with me (and then the relationship turned awful because I would start suggesting things to do and then he would deny it because HE wouldn't be the one in control). It was very bizarre, and as good of a person he is, I couldn't deal with the insecurity.

          [–][deleted]  (9 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]sheikha4teddies 2 points3 points  (8 children)

            She does not have many friends now and I feel like that is why she love/need me so much.

            Yes but I don't understand how that's an insult that she needs you in her life...usually men are happy when we want to see them and spend time with them and cuddle with them, right? That's why I didn't understand when my tech ex boyfriend felt INSULTED that I wanted to see him. Like I said, the insecurity was unbearable.

            23, and lost virginity at 18. I got "hot" at 22-23. I've slept with 10 people to her 24. She also had way more boyfriends & adventurous sexual escapades. She also used to really take care of herself (makeup, straight hair, contacts) than she does with me. Were you more sexually experienced than tech guy?

            10 is actually a pretty good number for a 23 yo man - I think my ex had less than 5, and I have a suspicion he lost his virginity in his mid/late 20's. I had more experience and LTRs than my tech ex, yes. I was (on and off) a popular girl (although I had phases of being a nerd). And he could NOT deal with my popularity - he was that insecure. He made it so that I could only talk to him and couldn't even acknowledge other people around him.

            I can sincerely say that I do not give a shit if she leaves and I think that makes her so attracted to me. Women are fucked up in a very different way from men. I'm sure giving your guy compliments would have solved so many issues. I think the only way for me to deal with the fear of her leaving me is to not care.

            It's true, it's really true. My ex-boyfriend (not the tech one) used to say "you need to treat women like a bitch or else she becomes your mom." You can't cater to her all the time. There's a fine proportion between making her feel secure, comfortable around you that she relaxes around you, that she trusts you, and also keeping her on her toes by not caring and not doing everything she wants. Stoicism in men is attractive because it's MYSTERIOUS when we don't know what you're thinking.

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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              [–]sheikha4teddies 7 points8 points  (5 children)

              Do you think 24+ is too much for a 22 yo woman tho? She self identifies as a slut and it makes me not want to marry her. Do girls not understand how turned off men get when you talk about promiscuity? It's not insecurity it's more like a feeling of disgust.

              Yes, 24+ is too much for ANY woman let alone one that is 22yo. Any woman who self identifies as a slut is just stupid to me. She can be YOUR slut but if she says she's a slut in general that is disgusting.

              [–]adool999 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              She isn't a slut right now. I know she wouldn't cheat. But she used to be one. Do I care? absolutely.

              [–]sheikha4teddies 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              So you're saying she's not being a slut FOR YOU? (Meaning she's not being a dirty whore for you and ONLY you) That is not a good sign. Most women will have a few partners but once she is in a relationship her attention should be focused on you, especially her sexual efforts, regardless of how many previous partners she had.

              By slut I don't mean she's sleeping around or cheating while she's dating you, I'm simply saying she should act slutty with you because she's in a relationship with you.

              [–]polakfury 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              My ex-boyfriend (not the tech one) used to say "you need to treat women like a bitch or else she becomes your mom."

              Sounds crazy

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              "Why is she fucking me now and not when I was 19"

              Thing is, this is BP thinking. You have to root that crap out of your head. What does the average clueless, awkward, shy, geeky 19YO male have to offer a hot young girl? Potential. Girls that young are usually oblivious to it, being BP themselves and looking for fun/thrills/alphas.

              Human nature. You get them at 25-40 because you're getting your stuff together, developing your body and your career. In short, your SMV is rising. Your SMV is likely minimal at 19, but at 30? With the job, apartment, money, and options? Yeah.

              There is also the fear that deep down I am a very boring person (I like video games and history/politics) and she will realize that later on when we are married and leave.

              This is a good fear to have. If you are boring, why SHOULD she stay? Just as we ask young girls what they bring to a relationship besides their hot bodies, what do you bring besides a paycheck? Because that is a reciepe to be a BP-beta provider. Do you WANT to be seen as just a paycheck? No? Then BE more.

              [–]dashdotdott 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I can't explain why, but what you're describing is a "gamma" under Vox Day's description of male types (which is more detailed than the basic alpha/beta). I could have sworn he had a good post about how they act more generally in a relationship but I cannot find it.

              Maybe it has something to do with how they switch between putting women on a pedestal and hating the entire sex.

              [–]asteadyheart 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Then they became extremely misogynistic because they realized women just wanted them for money/status (which they now have) but were still angry because of all the lack of attention from their younger beta years from being a pasty basement dweller.

              I think you hit the nail on the head here. I also dated tech guys and this is the common theme.

              Later on, I added "no chip on his shoulder" as a dating requirement. I'm not the girl that dumped you at your middle school dance, so stop projecting on me.

              [–]20160474 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              Why are they angry? Men only like me cause I'm hot! They should suck it up. Men who resent women for being shallow have so so so little self awareness. They cannot see how equally superficial they themselves are! So absurd. If a guy has the right to reject a fat bitch then I can reject a poor guy if I want. (Not that I'd do that, just hypothetical)

              [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Women want to be more than a pretty face / sex object. Men want to be more than a wallet / success object. I'm not sure "suck it up" is the correct sentiment :-P but there is definitely room for each side to understand each other better. This is where RP comes into play. If you believe in the myth of equality, then you are going to start to get upset that the opposite sex doesn't see you the way that you see them...because we're all equal.

              I also think that it's men who don't have anything else going for them that are more likely to be upset when women are attracted to their wallets (same with women who are pretty with little else going on). In these cases, no one would be with you if you weren't attractive/successful because you have nothing going for you. If you are a fully developed person who brings other things to the table, well then your pretty/money is what gets you in the door but the more developed you is what keeps you there.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Men only like me cause I'm hot!

              If the only thing you have to offer a man is your looks, you're going to hit the wall at high speed around 30 and the wreckage will be strewn for miles of highway.

              Develop yourself. Be someone worth making the effort to be with. Sexy and hotness is easy. There are always more young hot things entering the sexual marketplace. You, not your looks, need to be more than that or you're really going to regret it.

              [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              they will turn you into a demanding bitch and then blame you for it.

              Herein lies a gem! Naturally, women don't take agency and responsibility for things. Here you are, blaming men for turning their wives into demanding bitches! Lol! That's not how it works. Women are naturally demanding bitches. Men can either enable it or shut it down. Likewise, women can allow this destructive nature to go wild or they can rein it in.

              [–]adool999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ouch I'm kinda one of those. Jeez

              [–]radical-trad 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              If you haven’t lived with a passive-aggressive person you may not understand. All people are demanding - men and women both. The problem with the passive person is that they say one thing and do another - it’s probably unconscious.

              In my own experience, I had to detach from the passive person in order to contain my own inner-bitch. I had to become strong in myself. The problem is many women experience that disconnection or autonomy as falling out of love.