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THEORYRelationship market value vs Sexual market value: some traits to consider (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by teaandtalk4 Stars

Hey RPW. There have been a couple of posts lately about specific traits that make a woman commitment-worthy (ie that contribute to your Relationship Market Value, or RMV), not just date-worthy or sex-worthy (Sexual Market Value, SMV), in the eyes of a quality man.

I think lots of new RPW get caught up in the surface trappings that improve their SMV (like longer hair, wearing more dresses, and baking more). But what are the things men consider important when looking for a commitment-worthy partner?

This post is adapted from a long reply I wrote in a locked thread. I'd love to hear further suggestions.

  • Being polite and non-argumentative in public and in private. No one wants to feel like they're being argued at. This is especially important for RMV because you need to be a strong team if you're considering having children.

  • Attitude towards children/skills appropriate for motherhood. Many men, even the ones who don't want children now, watch women for signs that a woman would be a good mother. That means kindness, honesty, consideration of other people's needs, as well as actually being interested in having kids (if relevant).

  • Ability to maintain close relationships with friends and family. This doesn't mean having 15 acquaintances you see each week for drinks, it means having a couple of close friends that you can turn to when you need tough love (for example, when you're having trouble dating) and who you're there for in their time of need. Family is obviously more tricky (you only get one, and sometimes they're not worth having a relationship with), but most men will understand if you don't have a relationship with your family (if it's for a good reason) as long as you've demonstrated the ability to maintain close friendships. Being able to maintain long-term close relationships is a sign of loyalty, a key trait in romantic relationships.

  • Being considerate of other people's needs. This means their ACTUAL needs, not what you think their needs are. Sometimes a man needs quiet, alone time. Sometimes he needs to feel like a king in his own home. Sometimes (often) he needs a steak and a BJ. Sometimes he needs home baking!

  • Being aware in social situations. This means 'reading the room', noticing when people are getting stressed/reactive, and smoothing things over where possible. An example of this: I had to go to a family function last weekend, and I was upset/frustrated for a couple of reasons (I tried to keep it hidden but I wasn't doing the best at it). My aunt, at the event, noticed I was upset and gave me a cup of tea and distracted me by asking about my latest home improvement activity. She 'read' my emotional state and helped improve it, a great skill.

  • Being respectful and socially appropriate in public. A man doesn't get shamed when his FWB is obnoxious at a party, but a husband will absolutely be ashamed if his wife is playing up (getting drunk, or long-winded) and making people bored/uncomfortable. For an example, consider the Bennet sisters from Pride and Prejudice (a classic, and relatively easy to read if you haven't already). At a social situation, Kitty and Lydia were giddily flirting and acting like sexed-up teenagers. Mary was at the opposite end of the spectrum, being boring and stuffy and making everyone listen to her singing. In contrast, Jane and Elizabeth were making polite conversation, listening to the people around them, and participating in the dance. Who ended up pumped-and-dumped by an officer? Who ended up the last daughter left at home and single? And who ended up married to good men?

  • Flexibility to listen and change your view when new information appears. By being open to change and learning, you show that you're a good partner and team-mate. Example: my husband wanted a particular breed of dog. I was worried because everything I read on the internet indicated that this breed of dog is high exercise - and we don't exercise that much, especially not in dog-friendly ways (ie not the gym). BUT: I was open to learning and changing my view, and after talking to a huge number of dog owners of this breed, going to dog shows, etc, I came to agree with him, and we're getting the dog :)

  • Ability to self-analyse and self-improve. This doesn't just mean the surface stuff, like 'lose two points of BMI' or 'be better at baking', this means honestly reflecting on your life (including work, relationships, and other endeavours) and identifying your flaws, and then working to resolve them. Whether this means journalling, therapy or simply talking to a good friend about how you can improve, being open to change and growth is important over the life of a relationship.

  • Being interested in HIM, not just wanting a relationship. Men can tell when you're just trying to find someone to marry, rather than being interested in them as a human. Are you interested in HIS opinions, HIS activities, HIS life? It's not about you wanting a relationship, it's about you wanting HIM, and he can damn well tell if you're just playing the field. Most men would prefer a 6-7 who thought he was a god to a 9-10 who thought he was okay.

I'm most definitely not perfect, and struggle with some of these even now! I'd love to hear what other traits you think are important to RMV, compared to SMV.


[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 48 points49 points  (18 children)

These are really wonderful points, I would agree with all of them.

Another one: Being low maintenance.

I was actually interested in this one, because high SMV correlates to physical appearance which then translates to being high maintenance (always being fashionable, wearing makeup, doing your nails, wearing heels).

But sometimes being too high maintenance can decrease your RMV. High heels at formal events, feminine. But wearing stilettos during the day when your boyfriend takes you walking around the city, high maintenance.

Natural makeup, feminine. But wearing a full face of makeup plus fake eyelashes, blush, lipstick, contouring daily, high maintenance.

Painting your nails, feminine. But wearing fake long nails that make you unable to cook or do anything useful, high maintenance.

Staying in shape, attractive. But if you're fussing because you don't have your organic protein bar when you're on a trip together, high maintenance.

I've found most men like a girl who can relax and have fun and do things with, instead of worrying about her makeup or nails every waking second. Of course you shouldn't let go of yourself, but there are times where you don't have to look like a perfect Instagram model all the time. And I've actually noticed the single women who go out in groups tend to be the "high maintenance" women who sit there with excessive makeup and crazy "fashionable" clothes sipping their drinks not talking to anybody, while the girls who have boyfriends are more classically dressed and actually enjoying their time talking and having fun.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Nice addition, thanks VBL. Takes care of her appearance: good! Won't go on a hike/to the beach because it'll ruin her makeup: bad.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Great point. The overly high maintenance girls are what made me look down on femininity for a long time (especially the I-can't-touch-anything fake nails), but with my laziness (do not want to spend 1.5hrs on my hair every morning) and my desire to actually DO things (go on the hike, knead the dough, climb the wall) I came up with my own brand of femininity that is low maintenance but still cute. Only later as I shed some of my prejudice against femininity, I learned that my way is still feminine.

[–]testmypatience 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is what is feminine a difficult question to answer? I wonder how many men questions what masculine is.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well these days people demonize traditional femininity and masculinity by making both into straw men, and then they try to redefine both (by using the qualities of the opposite gender, funnily enough), so I'd say it can be pretty confusing. When you're told Kim Kardashian is the only definition of femininity, you start to think femininity is bad. They also act like there are no personality aspects to femininity. It really did take me some learning to realize you can be highly feminine without spending hours getting ready and avoiding all activities that might chip a nail.

[–]Landry86 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Agreed... High maintenance girls cost too much money. You can be feminine without paying for a facial every week and getting your hair done once a month

Speaking of walking around in heels, check these things out:

https://www.amazon.com/Womens-Strappy-Open-Platform-Wedge/dp/B00E46EUUC/ref=pd_rhf_sc_p_img_10?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WV0ZVTM9R76J38Z5HQEN

I just bought a pair and they're sooooooo amazing! I feel like I could run in them lol... the strap part on top that zips makes them super secure. I might even start a new post just about these shoes because I love them so much :)

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (2 children)

In fact I ran in some carrying a cello earlier 😅

[–]Landry86 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How on earth did you pull that off?

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By clutching the case very tightly! Haha. I was running late.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cute! Wedges are the best.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I think it just depends on the guy. Some guys want you in full face glam makeup and all done up, while others only prefer natural beauties in athletic gear. Its like blondes vs brunettes, it depends.

Most guys do want a barbie who appears effortless though. That means NEVER talking about the little things you do to become pretty and feminine, or else he will mark you as "fake" and "high maintenance" so you need to do most of this in private when he is not around. It needs to appear effortless.

[–]crownoffeathers 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Must always have a full glam look but he's never allowed to see the effort? That's not sustainable when you live together, and a man with any relationship experience would probably realize the expectation is unrealistic.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (1 child)

yeah I've never met a decent guy who expects that. I've met men who expect you to look nice even w/o makeup (you maintain your skin, etc.) but I've never met a guy who expects you to look fully made up at home.

[–]testmypatience 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That would be silly. Home is where a person retreats to in order to relax and feel safe being themselves. Rpw and rp in general sometimes makes me question how militant and how intense actually are vs the tame version I hope for. Life is for living, not some odd relationship game.

[–]testmypatience 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rule vs exception. Hopefully everyone sees which is which.

[–]crownoffeathers 15 points16 points  (3 children)

-Financial stability: it's a huge red flag if a woman is 5k in credit card debt because she buys too many shoes.

-Hard-working, productive, not lazy: She spends her time wisely and isn't a leech.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, definitely. Student debt accrued doing sensible study = acceptable, but credit card debt from holidays or general living above your means is undesirable (reducing RMV) in a long term partner (but irrelevant in a short term partner, hence no effect on SMV).

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yes. I find guys are alarmed if you have a bad credit score, but not as alarmed if you're just not making a lot of $ or don't have a lot of assets.

[–]testmypatience 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Low expectations...

[–]ThatStepfordGalEndorsed Contributor 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Just to add to that point about shaming your husband-remember as his wife and partner you are a reflection of him.

A reflection of his choices and people will look at you beyond just you as an individual, but being the choice he made on his life.

Did he make a good choice with you?

[–]Landry86 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I seriously cannot believe the number of women who are rude to their husbands in public... and I've even seen a few complain about them on Facebook

[–]ThatStepfordGalEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then they get even worse when he's not around, that stuff is almost basically legal slander!

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 11 points12 points  (30 children)

"Being aware in social situations."

I really agree with this one! (Sorry keep forgetting how to do that darn quoting thing) I had an ex who told me one of the qualities he valued most was someone who was comfortable in any room, who was socially fluent and was never a risk to bring anywhere. If your man feels comfortable leaving you alone at a family gathering, at a rowdy party, with his work friends, and with his childhood friends, he'll value you so much more as a life companion.

[–]Willow-girl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Getting along with the in-laws is priceless! My man is very close to his family and I strongly suspect I might not be here if they didn't approve of me, lol.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (28 children)

How would you improve this though? Isn't that just something you're either good at or not?

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Nope. Practice. Learn to STFU and observe people and how they interact with each other in social situations. Some people are born with this gift, but most learn it as a skill.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I am extremely shy and lowkey so I listen a lot already

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Then you're already good at this or should have no problem learning.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 5 points6 points  (24 children)

A couple of concrete suggestions for those who have difficulty with this one:

  • if you drink, don't.
  • listen more than you talk.
  • watch people's facial expressions when discussing things - do they look happy to be talking about it?
  • listen to the way the conversation is flowing. If it's all questions from one direction and short replies (with no elaboration) from the other, then it's probably not going well.
  • watch what makes people happy and animated. If you ask me about my new puppy, I'm going to look happy and have full replies.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Adding to this, if you really want to have finesse in social situations, you can work on the following:

Deflecting awkward situations (witty lighthearted comebacks or knowing when to change the subject).

Adding to the flow - if conversation is dying down, either ask questions or tell a story to pick it back up or know when to politely excuse yourself.

Know when to stay on one subject (eg. Someone is talking about their new puppy, continue to ask about their puppy instead of talking about your own dog or something that's related to you). Consequently, know when to take the spotlight off someone if you're just grilling them questions (similar to your 4).

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great tips!

I'd add:

-Being sincerely interested in someone else's story/life goes a long way in being charming. Actively listen. Act intelligent, interesting questions. To use the puppy example, don't just nod and say, "that's nice." Ask them what made them choose that puppy. Ask them if they've had other pets before. Etc.

-Read the room & understand social context! Not every group of people unfortunately is going to be warm and welcoming. For instance, some of my BF's work friends can be a little pretentious, so I had to approach them with a more nonchalant, confident attitude. One of his outside of work friends was a little more shy/nervous, so I approached him with more of an understated, self-effacing demeanor. My goal is to make my man look good, so in some settings I want to show off my professional side (I can talk shop well and ask intelligent Q's about business). In others I want to show a totally diff side.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good suggestions, I was just thinking of the 'observing' bit, not the 'improving' bit!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (20 children)

I do all that. I think I just can't process body language

[–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

We aren't here to come up with solutions for you to shoot down. If you did all of this well, you wouldn't be having a problem. If you're having a problem, it's because you aren't doing it nearly as well as you think.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I have received NUMEROUS helpful comments and especially PMs. I'm SO glad I made this post. If you don't want to read the comments that weren't useful to me then they don't have to be read. But if you take the time, you will see that some were useful and I replied accordingly. No one HAS to comment on this.

Its women who have been through the same thing (which I admit, isn't common) who have given me the most helpful replies. Its uncommon for a woman to grow up overlooked and then become suddenly beautiful. Its a lot to take in, and not an experience that many go through. To grow up being a bookworm developing your personality in detail because you're overlooked, only to become beautiful and everyone disregards that for your looks. Whether its a really pretty face, long luscious hair, a cute feminine wardrobe, or an hourglass shape. It attracts men, and its hard for them to see past it so its COMMON to have "bad luck" in this case. You are constantly pursued by men who try very, very hard to get you to like them and pretend to like you for all the right reasons, when they don't. They have ulterior motives.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I definitely grew up an awkward bookworm who didn't figure out how to be attractive until later. I guess even though I was awkward and unpolished I still got great boyfriends who appreciated my personality as well as my looks. I am definitely still not used to stares and overt sexual attention and still feel the ugly-feeling 16 year old coming out. Maybe you could try toning down your looks a little? I honestly don't know what to tell you since I've been in a relationship since before I realized I was actually attractive.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Back then, I did have "boyfriends" who appreciated my personality but I don't consider them to be relationships because we didn't have sex. Now, I have those too but I refer to them as friendships. So that's why I didn't include those.

I am used to the stares and sexual attention now, but it kind of makes me insecure because I never know why guys are approaching me or wanting to "date" me because it hasn't led to a real relationship yet. So I kind of cringe. I wouldn't consider myself insecure by any means (I'm very confident and happy with my looks), just what makes me feel insecure is not being able to tell a man's intentions because so many have lied to me. They say they wanted a girlfriend, they say they really liked me, they even act like we are building toward a relationship but then I realize they basically lied and played along just to hook up. So that's kind of where I'm at.

Women even do this too where they befriend me because they think I MUST know so many cool people and things (social climbers in big cities love this kind of thing) since I am physically attractive and sweet, and then they end up dropping me when they realize I'm not into social climbing, or they are secretly insecure and become passive aggressive and catty toward me in a way to try and tear me down. It doesn't work because I'm just so logical and blunt that nothing they could say would affect me because what they say is either true or its not, which leads them to try and tear me down even more just to get a reaction from me, and it never ends pretty. I'd still say I have a lot of friends though, but I have to end up going through so much unnecessary drama just because of what I look like, and with both sexes! I'm just a blunt introvert who doesn't put too much effort into looks or materialism, who always gets to the point right away, and that's why I have concluded that it is my looks that is causing the problem or disconnect here.

I toned down my look when I dyed my blonde hair dark and started to wear neutrals. I don't really know what else I can do. I have to wear form fitting clothing or else I look fat, frumpy, and sloppy. I could get a breast reduction but I feel like that would be pointless because there's nothing I can do about my big hips and big behind. I could gain a bunch of weight but that seems kind of counter intuitive toward staying healthy. I would cut my hair short but I know it wouldn't look good with my curvy shape IMO. I wouldn't say I do a glam face of makeup (I don't wear much eye makeup) but I've done a natural lip and a bright lip and still have the same results with men. I'm just really at a loss. Its like all they see is my exaggerated hourglass shape and they can't stop staring or create these false intentions in their mind. I hate it, and I didn't have this shape until I was around 19 when I lost my baby fat and started to look more polished.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I wouldn't recommend chopping of your breasts or hair or gaining weight to tone down your look.

And I don't know that it's your looks causing those friendship problems. I think people are just selfish and dramatic a lot of the time. Granted, if you were ugly they probably wouldn't be trying that stuff. But I've had people use me as a therapist and then drop me when they had vented enough. I've also noticed that in most big groups of women I've been in, they eventually try to pull me into their pecking order, but I tend to be a neutral person who is friends with everyone, so it doesn't work and I end up being excluded, or I just leave. I have several close female friends, but it's when women get in big groups that I've seen this happen.

I don't know what to tell you about the dating situation. You probably just need an atypical or weird guy (doesn't mean ugly) because my guess is you just come off differently than regular girls. My SO has compared me to Liz Lemon of 30 Rock, and it's very accurate. I am more polished than her now (though I definitely used to be that crude), but watching that show you can tell she's not like the other girls.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I definitely don't want to make anymore physical changes because I'm very happy and secure with things currently. I feel like that my current look is well suited for my life and personality, as well as the type of people I like to attract (in terms of interests, lifestyle, etc) but I have done a lot of experimenting in the past.

Yeah I try to be friends with everyone, which also seems to weird people out too. I like friends who are very similar to me as well as ones who are very different. As long as you want to hang out with me and we have some things in common, I could really care less what you look like or things like that, and that seems to weird out outsiders who perceive this going on. Its really weird.

Yes I love atypical weird guys. I need to meet more. Unfortunately those types never really approach me and are always either very suspicious as to why I approach them or they are instantly put off by me because they associate me with "the bitchy blonde girl who was mean in high school" (which I've literally been told before by more than one guy). Its very weird.

[–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you found things helpful then that's great. However this conversation is overrunning the comments section of a post and really isn't on topic to the post. Please continue this conversation somewhere else.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am 98% sure you all are being harshly trolled here. Seriously, "wonderlandgirl111" clearly living in wonderland as far as her self-perception. And trolling about it for the last year now. Worst case scenario you're being trolled, best case she can't be helped.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Figure it out backwards. Find a situation that you already know the context of and notice how people hold their faces, bodies, and interact with each other. For example, of you know Rob and Janet have crushes on each other but don't want anyone to know, see how they act around each other vs. a married couple you know. Or even notice your own body language when you're in different moods. People are generally very predictable, so if you can read a few, you can read most.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

I mean I am good in general, but there's always a point or two that I mess up at and that is what ends it.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Well most people don't get it right 100% of the time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I feel like I get screwed over from the two times I mess up with someone. Its like they are suspicious as to why someone attractive isn't the best socializer

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Do you find yourself thinking that people just don't want to hear the truth? That maybe you're "too honest?" Because sometimes you can read people right but they don't want to hear it. That's when you can hurt people's feelings. I used to have that problem. If you're just wrong about facts, either you're talking about something​ that's personal that they weren't planning on sharing with you and it makes them uncomfortable (e.g. relationship status) or they really just aren't people who are worth your time if they're so offended by an assumption that they won't talk to you again (say for example you ask if they were bullied growing up and they weren't).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Yes. I am bluntly honest. I am very logical. That's just how I am.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is exactly the post I need to read, synthesise, and apply, every day from now. If only I had this truthbomb dropped on me a few years ago when it could have helped the most (on the bright side, the post has the potential to strongly benefit my next relationship, so thank you still). However, the part about maintaining long-term friendships, especially with other ladies, has always been solid for me, and in fact might be getting better as the years go by, so I'm happy with that.

I think one of the major things that contributed to my failings in my previous relationship was my tendency to be argumentative/combative, even in situations where a snappy/sarcastic response wasn't very necessary, and I attribute that to a poor defense mechanism and poor emotional coping skills in the past, plus a need to prove myself right most of the time a.k.a. ego, even when there were times that I did defer and relent. The problem was not so much with what issues I had brought up, as I do honestly believe that my concerns were valid, but how I went about bringing them up and putting them on the table. I can see how such fiery responses can be seen as emotionally immature. Yes, it is important to stand your ground when you know you are right and you know that your needs aren't being met, but there are effective ways to do it and being combative did not always serve me well in the past. Anyway, to this date, I still have such combative tendencies, but only when it comes to certain people. I am actually quite gentle and permissive with people in general.

I do notice myself becoming as stereotypically feminine, if not more, as I have always been, but less high-maintenance than I was previously at one point in time. Spent a long period of time recalibrating my mental and emotional state to no avail, but now I feel ready to tap into my nurturing, caring, motherly state of mind again. I am ambivalent about having children of my own but I don't think being unsure about wanting children should preclude a woman from having such traits.

Reading the threads in r/RedPillWomen has helped me immensely in terms of getting in touch with my feminine state of mind again; I notice that I am always at my best and happiest, even in the past, when I did and do not deny my inherently feminine nature.

[–]refelgallo 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I would like to touch on the first point, I believe the OP may agree. Do not be argumentative, in public or private; however, do not let things stew.

If something bothers you, you should be able to express it. Let your captain know X bothered you, why and how you would prefer X to be handled in the future. Preferably in a cool even tone.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely, holding resentment in private is not healthy.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Being interested in HIM, not just wanting a relationship." & "Most men would prefer a 6-7 who thought he was a god to a 9-10 who thought he was okay."

Yes x 10. One of the most seductive things you can do is to deliver what I call, The Compliment He's Always Been Waiting For. I think all men have a few cardinal virtues (to paraphrase F Scott Fitzgerald a little) he's always suspected himself to possess. Similarly, all men have an archetype they aspire to embody. If you're perceptive and compliment a man in this way, I guarantee you he'll mull over your compliment for weeks or months, start to confide in you, start to believe you're the only one who "really sees him."

I'm not talking, telling a man he's smart or strong.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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[–][deleted]  (5 children)

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    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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      [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      Funny, but off topic. Take the one man show somewhere else....

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Actually the rules decide what's on topic, not me and not you. Take 48 hours to read the guidelines for posting. See you in two days.

        [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        Great post! I really like your example from Pride and Prejudice :).

        I think you do a good job of outlining the skills women should be taught from a young age and that take years to master, but that are extremely valuable not only to a future husband but in social and work situations too. I know I am still definitely working on the "reading the room" type thing. This area is harder for me as I have developed from a clammed up wall flower to a sociable woman, but I am still not the master of the room by a long shot. That was pretty slick of your aunt to do.

        [–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        She's amazing. When she first joined the family I was a bit under-awed, she seemed over-the-top in her effusiveness...but it turns out that's just her way (she's European) and she's genuine. Such a great hostess.

        [–]refelgallo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Something else I thought of, that I suppose I take for granted. Not having to text each other every five minutes. Also having separate identities. We have mutual friends and couple friends that i can go out with the guys she stays in and has a dinner party or she has a girls campout and we can just be ourselves and a couple.

        TL;DR do not be needy, (able to) do things separately

        [–][deleted]  (11 children)

        [removed]

        [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Your opinion and your standards, not a golden rule.

        [–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        Good luck with your list. I'm sure you'll find your 7.5+ 20yo virgin (you might, because you live in SG). The rest of us will continue living in the real world.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [removed]

          [–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          Well, I'm going to say that the women here aren't looking for a MGTOW, but thanks for playing.

          [–]801735 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Solid optimistic idealistic points, imo.

          And they lived happily ever after, too. ]=)

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Take it to TRP or MGTOW...

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                You need to go to the sidebar and read the rules for posting as a man on RPW... Take 72 hours to look it over and absorb it all...

                [–]801735 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                Irl, however, jokes aside, as long as the quality comms channel remains open, you're set. Sometimes no words are needed.

                I have a nice story on this idea, too, when the time comes, I'll share it. It's brilliant, on comms and "volume" of speech. Remind me, just in case this ordinary man, I mean, randomnumbereddrone forgets. =]

                Also, regarding your post. Solid.

                [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

                I feel like these are obvious ones though because it all comes down to: be agreeable, be non-reactive, be feminine.

                Have you seen a list of ones that are more obscure or harder to pinpoint?

                [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                They may be obvious, but they aren't easy. You don't really need an obscure list...relationships aren't rocket science, but doing it right goes against the grain for a lot of people and requires practice.

                [–]teaandtalk4 Stars[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                These ones are pretty key, maybe work on these before coming back to say they're too obvious.