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DISCUSSIONconfessions of a liberal RPW aka why I enjoy RPW (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor

DISCLAIMER: I'm quite new to RPW and do not claim to speak for any other member of this community. I barely qualify as a member of the community ;p I merely want to offer up my thinking and my perspective so that other people who are trying to make up their mind about RPW can hear from someone who maybe isn't who they'd expect to find.

ABOUT ME (the political stuff): I'm as blue state as they come. I campaign passionately for progressive causes, especially those that pertain to equal access to opportunity for women. I truly do not mean to break community rules and say anything negative about TRP so suffice to say I agree with very, very little of that subreddit's content.

I have an intense career about which I am very passionate. I hope to change the world for the better in a big way. I never planned to live a life characterized by "traditional 50's gender roles". I live what I hope is an independent, adventurous, big, worldly life.

*SO WHY RPW? *

1) RPW is not as prescriptive as I thought.

I don't want to dive into the entomological debate around "what a community" is defined by. But there are plenty of women who contribute to RPW who are not SAHM, who don't live "super traditional" lives. To me, RPW is not an ideology that seeks to dictate its members' choices. Or at least, I've never felt any pushback because I live the way I do.

2) I want an all-female space where I can celebrate the feminine.

RPW is a place where I can celebrate my femininity and fully relax and be my girl-iest self. There aren't a lot of other communities for me where that's the case. Girlishness is usually seen as ditziness, shallowness. I love my feminist spaces too but it's hard to gush about your BF without being seen as boring, lame, unintellectual. I brood a lot on the phrase "a servant's heart." That's an ideal that transcends femininity and masculinity but has a particular relationship with the feminine, and it's one I consciously want to cultivate. I seek to be nurturing, un-egotistical, supportive, to want to serve my darling life partner. Not all men, not men in general, not "men" the political idea...my man.

3) I want a space where I can celebrate the domestic.

Similarly, I love being in a space where we can celebrate and honor the little things - a well-cooked meal shared with the people you love, decorating a house to make it a home, choosing some gentle words carefully to soothe a spouse. Workaholic or not these little domestic moments make up so much of our lives... and so much of the time we share with our families. I love that this community takes them seriously, honors this kind of work properly, acknowledges its importance.

When you think of cleaning as a chore you hope your boyfriend does for you...that's what it is. An opportunity to fight, to complain, to be exhausted. When you think of cleaning as a political moment....that's what it is. A chance to stand on a soapbox (don't get me wrong, I love soapboxes haha).

But being part of RPW makes me think of these little things --tidying up our closet, doing the dishes--as a chance to embody love, devotion, a chance to enact higher principles. That kind of thinking makes those moments beautiful. And that makes my whole life more beautiful.

4) I want a space where we can acknowledge painfully realistic things without being accused of being sexist or offensive.

I think people hear terms like "the wall" or "dread game" they assume they're moral statements or instructions. I see them as observations. To me, RPW isn't about instructing people to not date older women who are "past the wall", it isn't about instructing women or men to employ "dread game." FOR ME, TRP is about merely recognizing that it is harder to date past a certain age, that psychologically that adjustment can be dangerous (for instance). TRP is about recognizing that "dread game" works often, is employed, etc etc.

I believe that underneath the civility and euphemisms of polite society, people are actually driven by the considerations TRP describes. And it's fun for me to acknowledge these harsh considerations and dynamics without being met with a horrified gasp.


[–]flyingwaterlilly 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I would probably be the last person to be expected on here, because I'm not even straight... However, true femininity is anything but celebrated in the LGBT-community. I was oftentimes accused of supporting so called "heteronormative" gender roles and that I don't look "gay" enough. Nonetheless, I am very confident about the way I am/look, but it's also quite a relief to have a space where I can be my (feminine) self. This sub is helping me to harness my femininity now and for the future.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's awesome! It is indeed a surprise to hear but a very pleasant one.

[–]flyingwaterlilly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! 😊

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

i ❀️ all of this. so good.

[–]bowie747 28 points29 points  (5 children)

The RP principles are grounded in biological science and psychology, and are supported by a lot of observation. People's day to day lives are definitely driven by these principles, whether they realise it or not.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Yup. I mean, I do have my occasional beef with the field & what I see as the over-application of evolutionary psychology... but the thing I enjoy is, as you say, the observation. Specifically, the right to free and even cynical observation!

[–]bowie747 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The nurture aspect of nature versus nurture is often overlooked in the RP sphere, yes.

[–]Willow-girl 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It's kinda creepy, isn't it? Looking back, in my early 30s, I was hellbent on getting married and settling down (again). If I had met a man who wanted kids, who knows? I might have had some. (The horror. That is NOT ME! It's like I became some sort of pod person taken over by aliens, lol.)

[–]bowie747 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I sometimes browse /r/sex and in the past 2 months there's been 2 similar posts by men something like "I get turned on when my girlfriend is crying, can somebody explain why?"

All the comments (both times) talked about how different people have different preferences/turn ons/kinks etc. I know from RP however that vulnerable woman = powerful/protective man = man is horny. It's all very simple but most people are so conditioned by our equalist/BP society that they can't see it.

[–]sheikha4teddies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I sometimes browse /r/sex and in the past 2 months there's been 2 similar posts by men something like "I get turned on when my girlfriend is crying, can somebody explain why?"

This is very fascinating...and explains why my boyfriend doesn't mind when I am scared or nervous because he wants to take care of me. We've also had very intense sex when I've been in a more vulnerable mood.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars 24 points25 points  (2 children)

As another liberal RPW, thanks for sharing this. I agree with all of this, and add:

5) I want a space where I can talk about listening to my husband's leadership, which isn't all 'you go girl' and 'omg i can't believe you let him make DECISIONS about YOUR LIFE'.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

YES that's such an enjoyable element too! First of all, usually it's "OUR life", right? So why is it so crazy to give him a say or follow his lead? :)

[–]mabeol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That and it's totally expected and support when women make decisions for the Home Team, but if a man makes it, it's ~oppression~ ...? I'm all for my man making decisions!

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

What I like about RPW is the open discussion of philosophy. I think it's wonderful that people are starting to recognize that there is no absolute ideal, no absolute value system that works 100% of the time. That gives rise to things like bigotry and dogma. When there are levels to learning, it implies that once you've reached the top level, there is nothing left to master. I love the idea of a community that is based on seeking out the best way to be a woman, with a loose mix of ethics, the sciences, anecdotes, and comraderie... I am old, and I have read enough about people trying to turn "is" into "oughts" and "oughts" into "is." I love reading stories about other women's experiences with moral autonomy.

[–]RainbowKitty77 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Love this. I'm also liberal but love reading and applying some rpw behaviors.

[–]isabeavis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm also pretty much as liberal as they come (and from Canada, where being liberal is pretty much being a socialist by American standards).

However, I've never seen that as a negative here or in implementing RPW philosophies in my marriage.

I found this sub about 18 months ago and lurked and read sidebar stuff for a LONG time before starting to post. It's helped me immeasurably in my personal life, mostly, the concept of no one is here to make me happy but myself and that I can't control or mold my husband into who I want him to be. He is who he is.

Anyway, all that to say that I agree with you :)

[–]AyeAyeCap 4 points5 points  (1 child)

What a great post! I've been mostly lurking here for some time and you have articulated something that I haven't quite been able to. I would never submit or follow any random guy. I don't believe there is something inherently better about men. I don't necessarily agree with TRP statements about my husband being the prize and that I am just lucky to be along for the ride.

I offer my husband a huge amount of value and I recognize that our relationship works better with one leader. It took awhile for me to realize that I was okay with him being the leader instead of me. But it didn't take much longer to realize that me stepping back and allowing him to take control is sexy as hell. I like me better when I am more agreeable and accommodating...of course my husband would too. But again, I would only do this for him.

This ended up really long but I appreciate your insight!

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, this is exactly how I feel! I try not to stress about whether some broader ideology sits well with me if the effects in my actual life are positive.

[–]Econo_miser 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. Quite frankly, the world needs more level-headed and open-minded women like you.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

aw, thank you so much.

[–]Nessunolosa 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Me too! I'm a world-travelling former(?) feminist who supports Planned Parenthood and is moving toward RP ideas. I've read Laura Doyle's 'First Kill All the Marriage Counselors' and applied it to my marriage, with unexpectedly amazing results.

RPW has given me a space to say things that would be too controversial to talk about where I'm from. I don't agree with everything on here, but every goddamned time I try something out that I read here it fucking works.

Thank you, ladies.

[–]isabeavis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

At first, I came here to scoff, but 18 months later I'm happier than I've ever been. Funny, that.

[–]Nessunolosa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup, basically me.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

every goddamned time I try something out that I read here it fucking works.

haha that's exactly how I'd express it, swears and all. I haven't read that book but I hope to soon.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I have to be honest, for a long time I was one of those "black and white" people... I've made several embarrassing scenes because someone made a joke I was "so offended" by, etc. I probably would've ex-communicated my last BF for being on TRP!

I'm young-ish and ok-looking and so I think I could've actually slid by for another half decade at least without being forced by circumstance to seriously re-examine the way I behave in relationships. I am SO GRATEFUL that it didn't get to that point.

I love hearing that there are happily married people in these communities!!

[–]smirk_addict 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These are some of my favorite types of post. When a woman can be honest about the fact she doesn't have to try but still makes an effort to, for herself. So many women never admit that. I really appreciate that. One of my female friends once said "I'm a skinny decent looking white woman. I have no problems getting guys and I can have all the sex I want. But I still need to make an effort to find a quality relationship and quality man." It's just real talk.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]theScarlettWomanModerator | Scarlett 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    No bashing the community or its members. There are plenty of liberal-progressive members here, that's not why people give you a hard time.

    [–]lidlredridinghood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I'm also liberal, and identify as a feminist... and a honey badger. Having someplace where all these things are ok, does make my life better.

    [–]Wissenschaft85 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I think your more red pill than you realize.

    [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Awesome! I think it's cool that you're here and gain value from the community. I also like that RPW does not have a cookie-cutter model for life. I do value that it helps us cultivate ways of being happy, fulfilled people and partners.

    [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yup. Emphasis on "people"...plenty to learn here even if you're single!

    [–]dottywine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I have your exact sentiments and view point

    [–]causeimnext 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Fellow liberal RPW. I agree with everything here. πŸ’ž

    [–]mabeol 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Goodness gracious, do I love this! Great insights and honesty!

    but it's hard to gush about your BF without being seen as boring, lame, unintellectual. I brood a lot on the phrase "a servant's heart." That's an ideal that transcends femininity and masculinity but has a particular relationship with the feminine, and it's one I consciously want to cultivate. I seek to be nurturing, un-egotistical, supportive, to want to serve my darling life partner. Not all men, not men in general, not "men" the political idea...my man.

    PREEEACH. I love this.

    But being part of RPW makes me think of these little things --tidying up our closet, doing the dishes--as a chance to embody love, devotion, a chance to enact higher principles. That kind of thinking makes those moments beautiful. And that makes my whole life more beautiful.

    This is such a great mindset, one that has inspired me. I’ve been really struggling to keep my apartment tidy recently (I have this really bad habit of biting off more than I can chew, and my home suffers the most), and I’m realizing that, if I were to live with someone, choosing to take the time to tidy it could truly be an act of love, since it means creating a calm, lovely home/landing pad for my partner. I don’t live with my SO right now but I suspect we’re not too far off from that conversation, so I like the idea of starting this mindset now. Well said.

    I want a space where we can acknowledge painfully realistic things without being accused of being sexist or offensive.

    YASSS.

    Edited to add: Love seeing so many liberal girls on here! RPW is for everyone!

    [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yay! I'm excited for you - living together has been so so wonderful for us. It adds so indescribably to the intimacy of the relationship. You sound like my kind of friend, seeing your posts has been really fun!

    [–]En-Zu 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Everytime there is a political post in TRP proper that goes too conservative there are always voices of dissent, including me. There was a poll recently put up and at least 25% of respondents identified as liberal or socialist so that's a significant minority. TRP and its approach to gender relations is inherently political, but people are individuals and can choose to disagree with the general stances of the parties they identify with.

    [–]Willow-girl 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Great post! Thanks!

    [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Aw thanks you're always so fun to read yourself, it's one of the reasons I felt RPW could be for me :)

    [–]OGlancellannister 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Great point on the non-prescriptive nature. That's the best aspect about it. Like in the Matrix, we can choose to either look on society as it really is, or decide to bury our heads in the sand. What you do with those observations is up to you.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah you're a modern RPW like me. We are about as red pill as it gets in a blue state or big city because life is just too modern for us and most men will see a pretty woman without a job as a golddigger or massive red flag. So I don't see anything wrong with your stance (also mine), even though a lot of people may claim you're not a RPW (happened to me on here).

    I LOVE being as feminine as humanly possible and super domestic. I love being girly and sweet. But I also am passionate about my career. I think it makes you a double threat. The more things you have about you after you reach peak femininity, the more interesting you'll be to a guy. So your passion for your career only adds to that.

    I also don't really believe in hitting "the wall" honestly. Look at Christie Brinkley or Monica Bellucci. You can look good at any age as long as you take care of your body, face, and hair while still maintaining a feminine image. Yeah it may take surgery, but that's affordable if you have a job (which you do). But yeah, it is harder for women to date as they get older because they have a lot of competition. In my opinion, that's EXACTLY why a career is important. Why have a pretty trophy when you can have a pretty, unique, interesting, creative, accomplished trophy with all the bells and whistles? Good thing is, in blue states, guys prefer the latter due to the culture :)

    I'm much happier being in the best of both worlds (feminine + career). I still identify as (modern) RPW though. Like you.