101
102

THEORYFor Single Ladies “Late to the Red Pill” Part I: Motivations for being RPW, Facing the Wall, Dealing with N-Count (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by RubyWooToo3 Stars

In a perfect world, all ladies would discover the Red Pill as fresh and dewy teenagers, ideally guided by the loving hand of traditionalist mothers. They would have dedicated their formative years to self-improvement and self-sufficiency, becoming proficient in the domestic arts, cultivating their feminine wiles, developing a unique and exquisite personal style, and saving themselves for the exceptional men who would become their husbands.

Alas, we do not live in this perfect world. Many stumble upon the Red Pill after the prime bloom of youth has been wasted on FWBs and focused purely on material success at the expense of personal happiness. Just as TRP newbies experience an “anger phase,” new RPWs often experience a “guilt and shame” phase when finally awakened to the reality of male and female relationship and sexual dynamics.

This post is intended to offer hope and guidance for any lady who wants to implement the RPW philosophy in her life but feels she may have arrived too late. This is the first of a series of posts, and will be most applicable to ladies ages 25 and up. The first few posts will focus on single ladies; future posts will be dedicated to women who are married or in LTRs.


First, what are your motivations for wanting to be an RPW? If it’s because being on your own is too difficult and exhausting, and you just want someone to take care of you, then you’re in the wrong place. The most challenging thing about becoming an RPW is changing your focus from what you can get out of men to what you can offer them.

Second, let’s take hard look at “the Wall.” TRP defines the Wall as the point in a woman’s life (22-24 years old, if you ask Rollo Tomassi) when her SMV begins to decline.

In reality, most women do not wake up as undesirable hags on the morning of their 25th birthday. When and how quickly your SMV declines depends largely on factors within your control. Do you live a clean lifestyle and are mindful of your health and physical appearance, like Rachel McAdams? Or did you burn yourself out with smoking, hard drugs, binge drinking, and reckless behavior, like Lindsay Lohan?

From the RPW perspective, what the Wall actually represents is a fundamental shift in power dynamics between men and women whereby the value of a man’s ability to provide commitment begins to exceed the value of a woman’s ability to provide access to sex. This is why the guys you met in college were willing to transition from FWB to boyfriend, but the mature and established men you’re meeting now are unwilling to commit to you just to secure sex on tap.

It’s imperative to adjust your dating strategy to emphasize your RMV. What qualities do you have that are truly unique and remarkable? How will being in a relationship with you make his life better? In what areas are you fundamentally compatible?

The one advantage that you have over the younger bodies you may be competing with in the dating marketplace is that, at this point in your life, you should be secure and self-aware enough to be able to answer these questions and use your knowledge to hold a man's interest beyond the initial attraction phase.

Third, how do you deal with your n-count? Other than the Wall, there is perhaps no subject discussed in this forum that gets us ladies riled up more than n-count. If any talk of the “cock carousel” makes you feel defensive or doomed, know that just because you can’t re-write your past doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t control your present and future. This means learning how to vet properly, controlling your impulses, and enjoying the rewards of delayed gratification.

If a man considers your n-count a deal-breaker, move on and don’t hold it against him. You’re not the right woman for him. If, on the other hand, a man expects no-strings-attached sex because you’ve done it in the past, you’re under no obligation to acquiesce. He’s not the right man for the woman that you are trying to become.

On the plus side, the older you are, the less likely you are to meet men who will outright ask you how many men you’ve slept with in the past. But that doesn’t mean that men won’t judge your sexual history in other ways. Have you cheated on your past partners? Were you ever a sidepiece? Were you ever pregnant? Do you have any children out of wedlock? Do you have or have ever had any STDs? Did you ever have sex with someone to advance yourself at school or work?

If confronted with these questions (either directly or in a roundabout way), you need to be upfront and honest—both with yourself and your prospective partners—about what you did, what led you to make such poor choices in the past, what you’ve learned, and most importantly, what you’re doing to prevent making such choices in the future.

Yes, this means some guys might “next” you. But a willingness to be vulnerable and selfless, and not try to manipulate and control your partner’s feelings and reactions by lying or withholding information, is a necessary part of becoming the type of woman a man can love and trust.

Besides, women who actually take responsibility for their mistakes instead of blaming men and society are in such short supply these days that some men might find such frankness and self-reflection to be rather refreshing.


Coming up soon: For Single Ladies “Late to the Red Pill” Part II: Nun Mode, Realism vs. Settling, Vetting Mistakes


[–]smirk_addict 26 points27 points  (2 children)

This should be added to the sidebar.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you found it useful!

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This has been a long time coming, and it absolutely should be on the sidebar.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 26 points27 points  (2 children)

This is excellent!

I actually believe that RP theory and what we promote here at RPW becomes more important the older we get and the more "strikes* a woman has against her.

Every time n-count comes up, we hear from the men that it is very very important. Every time age and the wall come up, we hear from men how the older you are the less desirable you are. That said, there are plenty of young pretty, entitled, solipsistic, BP 22 year-olds who only have being young and pretty going for them. Taking the RP and learning that we as women have to bring something to the relationship should help "older" women be more competitive in the relationship marketplace.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Not only is it the truth, but it's a must.. If you're smart you will use your wisdom and intelligence to stay competitive and later respectable when you're secured with your husband in your old age. It would be foolishness to have try to keep the strategy you had at 21.

I think we would all be lying if we said we had never been intimidated by an older woman; one who kept herself up and dresses in jewelry that we would look too young for, who clearly has years of feminine abilities to stay interesting to men. Who says all the right words and even can keep us under control.

You can be that woman or self pityingly give up.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I like this comment because I've seen the amount of respect men give to older women (30-50) due to their sophistication, intelligence and experience. After a certain age, men in their 30's and older do NOT respect inexperience and ditzy behavior. They look for a woman who they can build a life together not a woman he has to constantly baby and solve her daily crisis.

Being secure in oneself and being able to stimulate your man mentally and intellectually is the most important RMV quality for a woman. That also includes being happy and peaceful, not ranting or having out of control emotions that men describe as "bat-shit" crazy.

That being said it's completely possible that women in their mid-20's can be mature and responsible but for the most part, the millennial women aren't.

BTW, it's COMPLETELY possible to age gracefully until you're 50. I've seen it. Take care of yourselves, ladies.

Note: This is not to say that a 40yo can compare to a 25yo, but merely that as a woman ages she can still have attractive qualities besides her looks - but you have to develop them.

[–]sonder_one 16 points17 points  (40 children)

Rollo Tomassi defines a woman's SMV peak as age 23, but the wall is still pretty widely defined as age 30, where the decline is significant enough to change a woman's strategy because the power dynamics flip.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 18 points19 points  (15 children)

From an RPW, relationship-minded perspective, the shift in power dynamics is going to happen regardless of an individual woman's SMV.

When high-quality men become self-actualized-- usually when their career trajectory is on track, they're completely self-sufficient, and their confidence is based on personal achievements rather than approval from others-- it won't matter if a woman is a young, perfect ten... they won't commit simply for the privilege of continuing to sleep with her.

There are a lot of women who post here because they're 24 and freaking out about the Wall, or won't even give the philosophy a chance because they're 30. They might read TRP and think that because perpetual plate-spinners prefer to bang 19-year-olds, they're at a disadvantage in terms of securing an LTR, not realizing that sexual and relationship strategy are two related but still very different things.

What I hope these women will take away is that they need focus on things that are within their control-- such as how well they care for themselves, what they bring to relationships, and being able to identify relationship-minded men-- rather than things outside of their control, such as their age or (heaven forbid) trying to change a Chad.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 15 points16 points  (14 children)

I don't have anything to add, but I agree with you and want to second this.

No wait, I want to add this: The average age of marriage is about 27 for women. That means that there are women out there who get married after they hit the wall and there are men who marry them. To tell women that we can't help them once they are 30 just isn't true. It will be more difficult yes, and where you are located really makes a difference - but making a lifetime connection is possible. The key is being upfront and honest about the trade-offs and as you put it focusing on what is in your control.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 3 points4 points  (13 children)

To tell women that we can't help them once they are 30 just isn't true.

It IS true, however, that a woman after 30 is harder to help because by then, most people are fairly set in their ways and accepting RP wisdom is never easy to begin with. It's complicated by the fact that many women live in denial of The Wall and its application to them, and that'll sabotage everything.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 12 points13 points  (4 children)

"it's complicated by the fact that many women live in denial of The Wall"

Buddy, if you think any woman alive is ignorant of the effect aging has on their looks, then you know precisely nothing about women.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Denial isn't ignorance. It's refusal to accept reality - a psychological coping mechanism to deal with something that they are cognizant of but do not want to accept. VERY different. BP folks live in denial of certain truths about the human existence that RP folks accept and explore in a healthy, positive manner.

[–]sonder_one 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Women are not ignorant of their physical decline, but they are ignorant of the Red Pill realities that accompany that decline.

The biggest one is the general improvement in men's SMV as they enter their 30s. Women in decline tend to assume that the male market isn't changing, but it is. The wall really hits when a woman decides to return to an old "not good enough" boyfriend only to find that he doesn't want her anymore.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Maybe some women are ignorant of "Red Pill realities", but I doubt those are the women populating a board called Red Pill Women.

If all you're doing in stewing in your own bitterness, at least take it over to TwoX where you'll fit in better.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

All right I am going to step in at this point.

Both you and /u/sonder_one have explained your respective opinions, which is good and will give anyone reading some food for thought.

/u/sonder_one seems to focus on the non-RP segment of the female population. This is technically fine, but tends to lean more to the pessimistic and cynical side of things. Generally speaking, the male users that have the most to offer this community come from a pro LTR and marriage perspective, and have fully moved past the anger phase.

You clearly take into account the sub this conversation is taking place on which makes perfect sense and is appreciated.

Ultimately, both perspectives are important to keep in mind.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well we can help anyone - it's to what degree a person implements the advice and help that is offered. In most cases I assume that a woman coming to RPW has come in good faith and I generally respond in kind. If someone rejects our advice and posts the same problem 6 months down the road -- well that's on her and I'd not bother to repeat myself in those situations.

I'm not the same woman with the same values that I was at 20. I'm not even sure I'm the same woman I was at 30. So I don't assume that it's impossible for a person to change and even to change in time to set her life on the right course.

[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

It's not the age that creates the problem, it's the accompanying behavioral traits that make the woman a 'hardened battle-ax' which drives off most men.

This also is not a BP feminist sub. Women that want to learn and change absolutely can be and have been helped due to the efforts and knowledge of this community.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[removed]

    [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    Problem is, the older people get, the more they tend to get set in their ways. Bad habits get learned and ingrained. Things they spent their 20s doing because they worked, become habits that are liabilities post-wall.

    If this were actually true, TRP, MRP, and RPW should all delete the communities immediately.

    The key is your first sentence, people have to want to change.

    All RP communities focus on self-improvement and a desire to grow for the better, therefore talking about how women of a certain change cannot or won't change really has no place here.

    You second paragraph needs to be deleted. I don't know what you have been reading to lead you to the conclusion that "open..some amount" is the best way to describe this community but it is entirely wrong.

    Please report threads and comments that violate the community rules if you see them, but do not seed pessimism and false conclusions about the mission, execution and intent of this community again.

    [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Please report threads and comments that violate the community rules if you see them, but do not seed pessimism and false conclusions about the mission, execution and intent of this community again.

    I will do.

    [–]M23W0OH7FV2t 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Pardon the derailing, but what does "The horse" in your flair refer to?

    [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Just a different take on the saying "beating a dead horse." Meaning when someone refuses to listen, comply, or stop pursuing something. It's a plea/joke on my part as a moderator.

    "Please stop being a troll/making snarky comments/arguing". If people listened to the flair more often, I'd have less work to do around the sub.

    [–]M23W0OH7FV2t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I see, I prefer the term prat to troll, but I get your gist. You do a fair-minded job at moderating the sub and I tip my (proverbial) hat in your general direction.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (22 children)

    I'd say this is so unviserally the case in my part of the world (southern US) that even the most blue-pilled men next a woman at 30, often before giving her a chance. This is particularly easy to do in an online dating world. Long before he reads about her love of cooking Super Bowl snacks and serving them to her man, he's clicked on the next profile, because it said 26 instead of 30... which he can do, because more women enter his dating pool every year, while more exit hers. The blue-pilled guys may not admit age is the dealbreaker, claiming "it just wasn't right", but they still do it and it's almost always 30.

    [–][deleted]  (15 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (12 children)

      I had a guy friend share his excitement about a new girl he'd met online once and a week later, his attitude had greatly cooled. After many lame excuses, I finally got him to admit that she'd misrepresented her weight. It says so many things about our skewed view of the dating world that I had to reassure him that it's okay to not be attracted to someone, especially someone who lies.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        My last date, before I met my husband, was with the nicest guy. He had such a great outlook on life and he was hardworking and interested in the same things I was. At 5'5" I didn't care that he was only 5'7", even though he looked a little on the heavy side, in his picture. However, when we met, he was also at least 40 pounds heavier than that picture showed and even commented on the fact that he'd gained some weight.

        I sat there feeling horrible for not being attracted to him and only being able to wonder if his penis would extend past his belly. I felt so bad, that I went on a second date, even convinced myself beforehand that I was exaggerating the problem... that is until he sat down in the booth, which wasn't bolted down, and it flew back. I knew then that I needed someone I had any hope of being attracted to and also, someone who could chase our kids around the yard. I didn't date for another month and asked my husband to meet almost immediately. Lying is never a good idea.

        [–]sonder_one 1 point2 points  (9 children)

        Men are bombarded with the message that it's NOT ok to reject a woman for being physically unattractive. This is one of the biggest blue pill myths that they need to overcome.

        [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

        Despite the desperate attempts of the media, SJWs, and the "fat acceptance" movement, you rarely come across a guy dating way below his league, especially if the woman is really overweight (unless that's his fetish). The penis wants what it wants, and men (blue pill and red pill alike) don't make any effort to convince themselves otherwise.

        On the other hand, a lot of women will consider a guy who isn't a perfect match for her physically if he has other qualities, such as he treats her well, he's a good provider, or her's a particularly interesting, funny or charismatic guy. Hell, the whole comedy genre is dominated by overweight, average looking dudes married to smoking hot wives.

        [–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Yep - smart men see the "fat acceptance" movement for what it is...a low-level shaming tactic to convince men to accept women they would otherwise find unattractive.

        It's aggravating to women who support it because it's completely ineffective on virtually ALL males. Everyone (man or woman) has to compete for the person they want. Being overweight is a limiting factor if it’s not consistent with a man's specific preferences and acceptable standards.

        [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        It's aggravating to women who support it because it's completely ineffective on virtually ALL males.

        There are a lot of women who do not support it but the vitriol if you speak out is just as bad for women as it is for men. A friend complained recently that people get angry at her for saying she has a final 5lbs she wants to get off.

        Maybe it's evil or bitter, but after years of being concern trolled over my supposed anorexia (unequivocally untrue) - it makes me happy to know that men don't buy into the these tactics no matter how hard they are pushed.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Maybe it's evil or bitter, but after years of being concern trolled over my supposed anorexia (unequivocally untrue) - it makes me happy to know that men don't buy into the these tactics no matter how hard they are pushed.

        It's so frustrating. One of the teachers I used to work with felt the need to constantly express concern about my health, diet, and weight. I'm petite and naturally small but also choose to eat healthy, which she interpreted to mean I had body image issues and/or an eating disorder (she actually shared this other teachers and our vice principal).

        That's just one example but I've encountered similar attitudes from other people. When I've tried explaining they usually become even more condescending, so I just let it go. I'm thankful there are people who see through this because it's really hard to speak out against it.

        [–]M23W0OH7FV2t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        On the other hand, a lot of women will consider a guy who isn't a perfect match for her physically if he has other qualities, such as he treats her well, he's a good provider, or her's a particularly interesting, funny or charismatic guy. Hell, the whole comedy genre is dominated by overweight, average looking dudes married to smoking hot wives.

        Just as a bloke won't care if the woman's a high-powered lawyer or going to find the cure for cancer.

        [–]sonder_one -1 points0 points  (2 children)

        "Comedy genre?" Talk about a niche...

        That women play AF/BB is TRP 101, but TRP wouldn't exist if not for a legion of men complaining about how miserable it is to be the BB.

        To be the AF, a man must be seductive. It is possible to do this by means other than looks, but don't let that fool you into thinking that men have it easier than women. Here's an old goody from TRP-land: https://imgur.com/UvOJZv5.

        Women are not able to be attractive to men if they fail the looks test, but passing the looks test is a lot easier for a woman than for a man. At least, below a certain age.

        [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Men might have a lower standard for what they might bring home and bang after a few beers, but definitely not in who they will commit themselves to sleeping with every night.

        [–]sonder_one -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Very true. Men have never faced stronger disincentive to commit.

        Nevertheless, others in this very thread have agreed that women have a big advantage in online dating, where behavior doesn't exist and looks are all that matter. In dating overall, they have a much easier time passing the "attracted" test, at least before the wall. After the wall, women are more likely to be limited to blue pill men or, if they're lucky, formerly-blue-pill men who had crushes on them years ago.

        I know a very athletic, very active 40ish man whose wife is very overweight, has lots of health problems, and is really straining their marriage by never leaving the house. She depresses him terribly. Is he leaving her? Nope. It's just not in him. He feels bound to her (and her problems) forever. It's sad.

        Saw a wedding picture. She was thin back then. She locked him down young. Good for her!

        Small consolation if you're over 30 and single, but nobody here gets anywhere by playing the victim card, and "we have it worse than men" really isn't true anyway. Best advice I've ever heard: "Stop trying to find the person of your dreams. Start trying to be the person of someone else's dreams."

        [–]M23W0OH7FV2t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The message I've been bombarded with is that you don't mention anything negative about a woman's body, either before, during or after the relationship.

        [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Easier and safer just to say "We're not right for each other".

        [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        The other user is not saying that men or women should say "you're too fat" and then break things off. It's a general observation about how BP folks will have standards that they deny.

        Examples:

        • "We just weren't a good fit" is what they say when "she's too old" is the reality

        • "we're not a good match" is what they say when "he's too fat" is the reality

        No one is worried about false accusations here, that is strictly a male concern. One which I have never heard of being prompted by references to weight.

        If you delete the first sentence, I will re-approve your comment.

        [–]Rivkariver2 Star 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        Can you blame them? I've filtered out blonde guys, for goodness' sake. This is why I'm dating someone a bit older. I'm happier that way and I know he is more than happy to have a woman in her early 30s. He was even worried initially I would be too young, and certainly doesn't want someone younger. It's worked out beautifully.

        [–]deathbypurple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        too blonde people kinda creep me out as well...

        [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Dating does get harder the older you get, even in New York, where people tend not to marry until their 30s. I'm definitely not trying to sugarcoat that reality at all. My goal here was to provide advice that's actionable for women who are faced with that reality.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        Oh, I didn't take it as you sugar coating it. I was actually reaffirming that The Wall isn't usually 24. If there is a hard age, most would say 30.

        [–]smirk_addict 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I agree. A lot of women take their looks for granted and only learn about make up. Many don't care much for diet or exercise and think running or walking a few times a week is enough. But unless extremely overweight, many women can put just the minimal effort and with avoiding certain foods/habits they can maintain they looks well into their late 30s. One of my best friends lives in Austin Tx. There are a lot of mature very fit attractive women. He is very naive about women and at times pathetic. Yet he's dating very attractive women simply because there are just so many of them where he lives. Saying the wall is at 24 is just a testament to how lazy some people are or how uneducated they are about maintaining their health or looking better. Two very attractive women with same looks, i'm taking the one closer to my age. I just don't see a lot of them where I live(I'm 34).

        Another example. I know a girl who wanted to do a fitness model competition. She hired a nutritionist and all she did was clean up her diet and hit the gym consistently. She turned into a 9. She took first in amateur and then took first in the entire show. She wasn't super muscular or anything extreme. Just very natural good body proportions. She could easily be famous. She doesn't seem to care for things like that and with winning so easily she got bored with the whole thing. I just found all of that comical.

        [–]TheBunk_TB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Most guys didn't want to be a "something to settle for" or the nice *** that couldn't rev her engine. Ive seen it and this was in the South. I've seen guys go mgtow because of somewhat desperate women. Side note, Actual widows have an out but the near wallers hurt them by association.

        [–]chim_city 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Be careful of alcohol and partying. Really ages fast. I've seen total transformations in less than 3 years.

        [–]Rivkariver2 Star 13 points14 points  (6 children)

        You've covered great things here. I would draw further attention to the point you made about how older women have more self awareness.

        Not only is that true, but you should have learned (and should learn if you haven't) how much feminine power you have. You should use your intelligence to be a strong support and get the love you want.

        It's not about acting sweet and young. If your plan is to keep imitating 19 year old female behavior, you will fail. But you DO have feminine wiles and you should be using them. What you must understand is that men who want marriage deep down want you to do that. Not in a cruel way but in a way where you have his respect. Just trust me on this.

        And one big thought: if you have spent your younger years on the cc, do not blindly bow down to any guy who commits because you feel you have to atone for your past.

        [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        Excellent points!

        And one big thought: if you have spent your younger years on the cc, do not blindly bow down to any guy who commits because you feel you have to atone for your past.

        In my next post, one of things I plan to discuss is common vetting mistakes for women "late to the red pill." Some women settle for bottom of the barrel because they're in panic, while others develop an increasingly long list of arbitrary criteria by which they can exclude men instead of doing any work to improve themselves.

        Stay tuned!

        [–]Rivkariver2 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Looking forward to it.

        [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        It's not about acting sweet and young. If your plan is to keep imitating 19 year old female behavior, you will fail. But you DO have feminine wiles and you should be using them. What you must understand is that men who want marriage deep down want you to do that. Not in a cruel way but in a way where you have his respect. Just trust me on this.

        Agreed! Quoted for emphasis.

        [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        And one big thought: if you have spent your younger years on the cc, do not blindly bow down to any guy who commits because you feel you have to atone for your past.

        I love this and want to post it all over the place.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [removed]

          [–]agentcallisto 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          Thank you for writing this. I’m very new to the RP, though you could say I’ve been aware of many of the principles thanks to the example of traditional parents. At any rate, sometimes I get panicky because of my age and have to remind myself that while I do have to be realistic about my SMV, now I have this knowledge I can use it to best increase my chances in the SMP.

          Very much looking forward to the next installment.

          [–]est-la-lune 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Women who actually take responsibility for their mistakes instead of blaming men and society are in such short supply these days that some men might find such frankness and self-reflection to be rather refreshing.

          A nugget of gold and a game-changer for anyone who is new here.

          Anyone else ever notice how people are easy to forgive mistakes when nobody gets hurt? Don't want to be the person who gets hurt because of your own mistakes. The process of owning our past isn't easy, and learning from our mistakes is even harder than acceptance. But once you learn to use mistakes as opportunities to grow and change, people stop having the power to use them against you. They may not approve, but they can't hurt you. And that's really powerful.

          [–]AnnaAerials 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          Really enjoyed reading this and keen to see your next posts!!

          [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Thank you very much!

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Thanks for a great post! Can't wait to see what's up next. :)

          [–]mwait 5 points6 points  (15 children)

          Very good advice. One thing I will comment on is the following:

          If, on the other hand, a man expects no-strings-attached sex because you’ve done it in the past, you’re under no obligation to acquiesce. He’s not the right man for the woman that you are trying to become.

          Obviously, you are never obligated to have sex with a man, regardless of the circumstances. And you should adhere to whatever standards you are comfortable with at a given time in your life.

          But... The above scenario generally represents the Epiphany Phase, where a woman begins to change her sexual strategy in an effort to secure commitment, as she knows time is running out to find a high value mate.

          Women should be aware of how big a deal it is when men find out that a potential mate has freely given away sex of a certain quality in the past, but they are being held to different standards. Im referring to the women who sleep with potential partners prior to receiving commitment, but then begin telling their current interest that they want to wait a few months before sleeping together. Or women who used to give oral/anal sex to partners, but then tell their current interest that they never really liked those acts and do not want participate in them any longer.

          It is absolutely a woman's choice to say yes or no to whatever she does or doesn't want to do. But RP-aware high value men will have a huge issue with finding out that they are not receiving the best sex a woman has to offer. Especially if they are being made to wait longer or provide more security before such sex has been had.

          [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 11 points12 points  (12 children)

          A man who would have an issue with a woman's n-count, wants sex right away, and expects certain acts because she's done them before isn't going to commit to her whether she caves in or not. Either he considers her past a deal breaker from a relationship standpoint or he doesn't.

          She can't dictate his preferences or behavior; she can only control herself. As the saying goes, you can't do the same exact thing over and over again while expecting a different result.

          [–]mwait 2 points3 points  (6 children)

          You are taking this to a bit further of an extreme than I intended. Im not talking about someone lurking on TRP who claims women who have an n-count > 2 are worthless for relationships, or someone who will "next" a girl if she doesn't put out right away.

          I'm trying to describe the type of guy who a RPW would find herself interested in a relationship with. A guy who is objectively high value and RP aware, but who isn't going to crucify a woman for sleeping with more than couple guys. That is the type of man most women here are looking for. But it is also the type of man who is going to see a woman's behavior for what it is, an attempt to portray herself as sexually prudent/chaste to secure commitment, when he finds out that she is holding him to different standards than her previous partners.

          I'm not saying that changing your behavior is pointless. I am simply pointing out that this is one of the largest stumbling blocks for women who are "late to the red pill".

          [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          I understand what you mean.

          I am simply pointing out that this is one of the largest stumbling blocks for women who are "late to the red pill".

          Women who are late to the Red Pill are fully aware of this already, but they rarely receive any constructive advice about what they can do going forward.

          To clarify, I'm not advocating that a woman try to portray herself as prude and chaste; as I said, she should be forthcoming when questions about her past arise and be able to address any concerns. She won't win them all or even most, but she improves her chances with some.

          [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          Yes, you have done an excellent job explaining the details and ins and outs that go along with trying to navigate things that can happen at this stage of life. Unfortunately, this is a situation many women find themselves in, but it should in no way doom them to a life of single-dom if they have other goals. :)

          [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          u/RubyWooToo 's advice is one of the few times I've seen this handled in a way that makes sense and is actionable. Men say that they will be concerned if they do not get what other men have gotten in the past - but they also say that a girl who sleeps with them on the first date is a red flag. There has to have some course of action to deal with this no win situation. I think that:

          you need to be upfront and honest—both with yourself and your prospective partners—about what you did, what led you to make such poor choices in the past, what you’ve learned, and most importantly, what you’re doing to prevent making such choices in the future.

          is the best advice I've heard for balancing a man's hesitation over your past behavior with who you want to be in the present.

          [–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          you need to be upfront and honest [about] what you did… what you’ve learned, and most importantly, what you’re doing to prevent making such choices in the future.

          I've said this/words to that effect in numerous face-to-face and online discussions. Most men strongly agree to this approach. Own your sexual past and be ready to explain lessons learned, and then be the very best woman you can be with an interested man if he accepts the information without hesitation. Be prepared to accept a man's personal decision and preferences regardless of outcome.

          Biggest Issue of Concern - a man wants a sexual dynamo. If that was the situation before, he wants that same effort or better. It's devastating and somewhat humiliating to later discover he is getting the watered-down and tamer sexual activity. Dudes have been known to end relationships due to omission and learning the information via third-party sources.

          That – and be willing to confirm disease-free status and the ability to bear children if it’s a topic of concern.

          Older men are not expecting virgins, but they are looking for women with self-control, and who demonstrate complete loyalty and self-respect for a budding and lasting relationship. This is why a low N-Count is not necessarily a disqualifier, however, an excessively high number is hugely problematic.

          I have no confirmation on this, but I like to use 21-22 as the cutoff for virginal expectations – and that’s pushing it. Although there are exceptional outliers, after that age it’s very common that most people have engaged sexual activity.

          Unrelated, but at age 40 Rachel McAdams is handily beating other women 10-12 years younger.

          [–]Rivkariver2 Star 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I don't think all women here are looking for a guy like that.

          [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Correct, every woman here wants a 'good man' which is a flexible definition that will mean something different to every woman. It is deliberately vague so that personal meaning can be hammered out and clarified.

          One of the first steps to vetting is actually figuring out what 'good' means specifically.

          [–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          A man who would have an issue with a woman's n-count, wants sex right away, and expects certain acts because she's done them before

          I think you are adding too many factors in here. Most men would prefer sex right away, and I'd say most RPM care about N-count, but to say these things as though they are requirements is a pretty small sample of high value men imo.

          Most high value men will care about these things, but they will not be a deal breaker unless they are extreme instances such as her having a 25+ N count or her saying she will not do anything sexual for the first 6 months. But I would say without a doubt that the vast majority of high value men would absolutely find things like "I used to do anal, and love giving head to my exes, but I don't anymore" to be dealbreaker level information.

          It's not necessarily that she doesn't do it, it's that she did it for someone else and won't do you for you. Because if she never liked it, then that means she was sacrificing for her ex in a way she decides you are not worth sacrificing for. If she used to like it, that means she only enjoyed the experience with her ex, and doesn't believe you could give her an enjoyable experience in a similar or better way.

          Any way you cut it, if you had sexual continuous sexual experience in your past that you current wants, and you refuse to give your current that experience, there will be an issue in most relationships.

          [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

          To clarify: If a woman enjoyed doing things like anal and blowjobs in the past but refuses to now, then yes, it's understandable that a man would see that as an indication that she's not as attracted or invested in him as her previous partners.

          But if a woman tried something that she didn't like, or engaged in sexual acts she really hated with a previous boyfriend, I see no reason why she should be obligated to do that with future partners. First, people are rarely good at activities that they don't enjoy, and second, forcing someone to do something they don't like is a great way to build up resentment in a relationship that ultimately kills a sex life.

          What I was addressing here is that feminism-- starting with the "free love" movement in the 1960s-- put a lot of pressure on women to be "adventurous," "kinky," and "sex positive" regardless of their individual preferences.

          I think it goes without saying, however, that if a man or woman finds a certain sex act integral to his or her enjoyment of sex, he or she should find someone who is more compatible if that sex act is off the table in the current relationship.

          [–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star -1 points0 points  (2 children)

          But if a woman tried something that she didn't like... I see no reason why she should be obligated to do that with future partners

          I think this portion is understandable. I think most will get this and there won't be any more pressing after explaining this.

          or engaged in sexual acts she really hated with a previous boyfriend, I see no reason why she should be obligated to do that with future partners

          This is where the issue arises in my opinion. If she hated them in the past, she still viewed whoever she was doing them with as worth more than however much she hated the action. I'm not saying she would be obligated to do anything, no one is obligated to do anything sexual, just as no man is obligated to commit to any woman. I'm saying most men would have an issue with this, and the issue could very easily dealbreaker level.

          There are sacrifices people make in relationships, if reasonable sexual actions are not a negotiating factor in your possible sacrifices I think your relationship will suffer.

          [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          I never said that not being willing to put out or do things wouldn't be a dealbreaker; in fact, I explicitly said that women need to get comfortable with the idea of men having dealbreakers. If there's one great lesson that the Red Pill has-- for both men and woman-- is that no one is entitled to anything in this world.

          If she hated them in the past, she still viewed whoever she was doing them with as worth more than however much she hated the action.

          I don't think that's a fair assumption to make unequivocally. It could be that she didn't feel assertive or confident enough to say no. It could be that she didn't feel like her thoughts or feelings about a sexual act mattered. Or it could be that she felt like she had to do something because everyone else was doing it (or claimed to be doing it).

          Regardless, approaching relationships as "tit for tat" or a constant game of one-upmanship is not a recipe for success.

          Yes, there are compromises to be made in sex as in other areas of a relationship. But if the ultimate goal is to find a relationship where there is real intimacy and long-term compatibility, both partners need to upfront and respectful with one another about their preferences and limitations.

          [–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I explicitly said that women need to get comfortable with the idea of men having dealbreakers. If there's one great lesson that the Red Pill has-- for both men and woman-- is that no one is entitled to anything in this world.

          Ah I see. I agree with you here, my mistake.

          But if the ultimate goal is to find a relationship where there is real intimacy and long-term compatibility, both partners need to upfront and respectful with one another about their preferences and limitations.

          Understood. I just think when limitations change is when people should expect to upset, or even lose their current S/O.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [removed]

            [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Remove the last sentence and I will re-approve your comment.

            [–]xxGabixx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Thanks so much for this! Looking forward for the next post :)

            [–]myrpwi_account 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            This is excellent, well written and very helpful. Great job and very insightful.

            [–]LadySwitters 2 points3 points  (7 children)

            I have a question... and it's not something I have ever really grasped. How do men know or find out about any woman's sexual past or what kind of sex she was having with her exes? I mean other than she isn't a virgin, it's not like there is a sign in sheet. I met my husband at 33, and we are very happily married. However, he has no idea what kind of sex I had with my exes (and visa versa) or the exact number of partners, or anything. It's not that I'm hiding anything either... we have simply never asked each other. I don't want to know what his ex liked in bed, and it goes both ways.

            I mean if you as a woman were having crazy kinky sex with a man, and then decided it wasn't for you, and moved on, how would your next relationship even know about it? Who would tell them... "Hey, Jenny seems nice. Did you know she used to like BDSM and wanted to have sex exactly nine times a week?"

            [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            I think questions about specific number of partners and the types of sex acts you've done come up a lot more when you're young (teens and early 20s) when sex is still a shiny new toy and people might be more insecure about their experiences (or lack thereof) relative to their peers.

            I've noticed that, probably due to the fact that a lot of Redditors are in this younger age group, the impact of number of partners and types of sexual acts really dominates the conversation in red pill subredddits. This was a big part of what motivated me to write this post, because there just wasn't very much advice or guidance applicable to women over 25.

            As you say, questions about n-count become few and far between the older you get, because no one expects a woman in her 30s to be a virgin and, generally speaking, most men aren't preoccupied with the sex their partners had in the past if they're satisfied with the sex they're receiving now.

            If, on the other hand, he's not getting certain acts that he wants, or if he wants to add something new to their sexual repertoire, questions about what she's done in the past might come up organically in those conversations.

            [–]LadySwitters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I agree with you. I think what was confusing me was this whole "gotcha" attitude towards a woman's sexual past. I have never had it happened to myself or any of my girlfriends where their present partner was informed by anyone of their sexual background.

            [–]BewareTheOldMan 3 points4 points  (4 children)

            Other than direct questioning, men mostly find out a woman's sexual past from third-party sources...other men in colloquial conversation at social events/male gatherings...and in some cases jealous women. This is virtually a foregone conclusion if a woman "gets around." NO ONE wants to marry the "town bike," but others might want their turn.

            Men have been known to end marriages and relationships after discovering some old video, or being sent a random video "by mistake"/or with nefarious intention – especially if he realizes that sex acts on the table for other men are not a consideration for him. That’s harsh.

            Also – if there are special circumstances like a guy finally lands the hot chick, he might brag to his friends. He shouldn’t do this, but some guys will do it anyway…

            Other scenarios:

            Parties/Social Gatherings/Locker-Room Talk/Discussions on females, etc. - men have no issue talking to other men about "loose women." After all - if a woman didn't want others to know...said woman wouldn't be so "loose."

            Also - see this scenario from the movie Office Space

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXgSCpb1TE0

            Lastly - experienced men know when women put forth a half-hearted/unenthusiastic sexual effort.

            Real-Life Personal Example - I was young lad, virgin, and sexually inexperienced. I married my now ex-wife and stayed married for 12+ years...divorced after almost 17 total years together and 3 x kids.

            Post-divorce sex with other women was incredible! I did not have much of an idea what I was missing, but now I know when I get a half-effort. I simply will not accept anything less than a woman's best sexual effort...and I am not kidding.

            Fortunately I've been happy in this area with other women. It's the other attributes and traits where I've had past problems.

            [–]LadySwitters 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            Okay - but does that REALLY happen in real life? Maybe it's because I live in a large city... and also generally dated decent men...and never videotaped my sex life... but the chances of anyone telling my husband about our sexual past are somewhere between none and zero. I'm wondering how often anything like this actually happens?

            [–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            I've seen this play out 4-5 times in real-time...I didn't ask - it just came up as topic of conversation.

            Also - real-life online examples are easy to find all over male-dominated spaces. Men post this stuff as warning/awareness for other men - I assume much the same way women likely have similar discussions in their spaces/female-dominated areas.

            [–]LadySwitters 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            maybe... just different circles? I have literally never once seen this happen to anyone. Ever.

            [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            maybe... just different circles?

            I'll accept that - after all…most of my interactions are with men. I don't talk to women in open discussion on women's sexual past. It doesn't seem appropriate, however, this comes up among men in varying formats/circumstances - that's all I'm saying...

            When I have discussion where women are present, it's mostly relationship-related or completely different topics altogether. I think women may be missing you with this subject.

            [–]throwawayindisbelief 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            If a man considers your n-count a deal-breaker, move on and don’t hold it against him. You’re not the right woman for him.

            ** This also applies if your n-count is 0 or 1, especially if you're from a non-Western culture where parents don't allow their adult children to date in general.

            [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            While I agree that a woman should accept it if her virginity or low n-count is dealbreaker for a guy, virginity is a liability for a woman over 25 (the age group I had in mind when I wrote this) if she's seeking men who aren't from a religious or ethnic community where virginity is expected.

            Generally speaking, people from those types of communities either marry young (usually right after college), or they can rely on their parents to arrange a marriage or make introductions to potential mates for them.