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THEORYThe Art of Getting Things... Without Demanding Them (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor

When I saw this picture of men lining up to get their girlfriends flowers on Valentine's Day, it made me sad. This is what obligation looks like.

How many of these men are getting flowers because it's Valentine's Day, and that's the thing you do on Valentine's Day? How many of these men are getting flowers to avoid a fight, or to avoid making her cry? How many of these men are getting flowers so that they can get laid? If they're doing it for any of these reasons, then this is an obligation to them and they have no desire to do it.

Now how many of these men and are looking forward to seeing her face light up with glee when he surprises her with flowers? I'd be willing to bet that number is "0". When a man is not doing it for this reason, he is a beaten down man with the life drained out of him. But when he is doing it for this reason he is excited and full of life.

Should you care why your man gets you flowers, as long as he gets them for you? Here are some reasons why:

  1. If your man is not happy, then your relationship is not good. Go back to RPW school until you learn this.

  2. If your man is happy he is more likely to get you gifts that you don't expect. He might get you flowers on Valentine's Day, or he might get you a "I was just thinking about" gift on a random Tuesday.

  3. If a man gets you flowers, and you know he didn't have to, it makes the gift so much better. If he did it because you told him to, it makes it more fuzzy... did he get them because you told him to, or did he really want to?

The trick to getting men to do nice things for you, without demanding them, is to make him want to do nice things for you. Here are the steps for showing and developing an "attitude of gratitude".

  1. Be a person that he has emotional investment in. This is your basic relationship building tactics, so go back to RPW school if you don't know how to do this.

  2. Never expect anything. I don't care if it's your birthday, Valentine's Day, Christmas or Leif Erikson day, don't expect that he gives you anything, and don't be or mad/sad if you didn't get a present. Also, never tie sex to presents, he should be getting sex either way, on a very regular basis.

  3. Remember anything he gives you is a gift that he didn't have to give to you, and act accordingly. If he's not giving you tangible gifts, think about the intangible ones he's giving you. Spending time with you, fixing the leaky faucet, paying the mortgage, whatever. Any gift he gives you should be met with childlike delight, like you're opening your presents on Christmas morning. Smile with glee, jump up and down, kiss him, and thank him.

  4. Let him know if there's something you want, but don't make any sort of obligation or demand out of it. You're just giving him information, he will use it if he is so inclined.

If you're already in an obligation-based relationship, it's not too late to change it. Drop the obligatory behavior, and even directly apologize for it, and start to develop an "attitude of gratitude". In general, to feel entirely grateful for something, you must truly believe that it was an non-obligatory gift. If you don't have this internal gratitude belief system at first, that's okay, you can act like it. Slowly your beliefs will start to follow your behavior.

Examples

Anecdote 1

My SO and his best bud were planning a trip to Yosemite, and they had planned it without me. Upon finding out their plans, I let him know that I would like to come too. I was told this was just for the boys, and I let it go. After he came back from his trip, my SO admitted to me that he didn't take me along because he didn't want to feel like he "had to" just because I happened to be the girl that he was dating. But, when he got there he realized he missed me, and he wanted me there. So that day we began making plans to go back, just so that he could have the experience with my company. I wrote a field report about the event.

Anecdote 2

I don't get a present from my SO every Christmas. He has gotten things for me some years, but not every year. I always am appreciative and excited when I get something, and always have fun seeing him open the presents I got him. This year was different. This year there was so many presents under the tree with my name on it. Then there was... the big present, which he carefully wrapped cunningly so that I wouldn't have a notion of what it was. When I opened this present I was truly stunned and in awe. We like to go shooting together, and I have been trying (and failing) to get expert level scores for many months. My present was a rifle, that was custom designed for me and put together all by him. He bought all the pieces on the internet, and put it together while I was sleeping. He made sure that every part was picked for me. Light weight (because I'm small), small barrel (for my tiny hands), a compensator that would reduce recoil, my favorite trigger, he even drove for hours to get it all done in purple, and then bought me a matching rifle case. He told me later that he did all this because I treat him so well, and never expect anything from him.


[–]Rivkariver2 Star 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I kind of feel bad you assume all the men in that line are there out of obligation. When I see that line I see men who love their wives. Maybe some of them were nagged but I doubt the number who are there for love is zero.

Yes one should always receive graciously. That’s all it is. I don’t demand gifts I just accept his terms on it. But we always do Christmas gifts, can’t imagine otherwise, just our preference.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I doubt the number who are there for love is zero.

I didn't say that they didn't love their wives. Loving your partner and feeling obligated by them are not necessarily opposed.

[–]aftertheafter-party2 Star 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I love the story about your xmas gift that went above & beyond -- but I think it's totally chill to express if an occasion is important to you & what you want to receive. For example, I told my husband that valentine's day is SO important to me, & I live to get flowers on that day. I told him the colors & the florist I preferred. I also re-arranged those flowers + some extras when he arrived home from a trip recently. He was so impressed with the beauty that he was telling his parents tonight how important it is to him to provide me with fresh flowers weekly so I can arrange them around the house & make our lives better.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (2 children)

We stopped holiday gifts pretty early on and I don't regret it one bit. Our anniversary is a set exception and those are diy gifts rather than "stand in line" gifts.

And you are right, I get random gifts throughout the year. There is no reason to stress about getting a thing on a particular day. It often is more hassle and pressure for everyone involved and even if you delight in gift giving, there is an unspoken obligation attached.

Instead we skip the holidays and do things when the right things come up. Once I got a small derringer from a one eyed Sicilian knife maker (no lie), quite a few times I've come home to shoe boxes.

One of the saddest memories from Christmases past was watching my mother return a gift that my dad had been really excited to give her. It broke my heart then, it still does to think about. I always look to the motivation for gifting. From my husband it is that he wants to make me happy. So what if it isn't the perfect thing or what I'd have picked. It's more about the realization that he was thinking about me when he was under no obligation or saw something that made him think about me or he just wanted to see me smile. If you can't find delight in that, then you are focusing on the wrong things.

[–]jollymoggy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

My Mum did this the Christmas just gone... my Dad picked out a beautiful limited edition Radley dog walking bag in NOVEMBER, because my Mum often enjoys going on big walks with her friend with our dog and loves Radley. He was so excited to give it to her but she was unimpressed, a mixture of getting a 'dog bag' for Christmas rather than something special and the fact it was too expensive. She ended up taking it back. I felt so sorry for him 😕

The motivation thing is spot on, I love receiving gifts but it's the thought, the fact that gift was picked for me, with me in mind, it means a lot. My boyfriend used to get so stressed about getting a 'good' present... but after I explained how I feel this way he's been more relaxed about it and has gotten me great gifts anyways! I feel like clothes are so risky to buy for someone else and I was pleasantly surprised he bought me some beautiful clothes! He remembered a site I told him about and he went on there and picked a few pieces out for me. Even if I had ended up not liking the clothes, the fact he remembered me mentioning the site and went on there would have meant the most to me.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was pleasantly surprised he bought me some beautiful clothes!

My husband has bought me some of my favorite shoes over the years. The first time he did it, he took my gay bff and they disagreed on what to buy. Husband went with his own instincts and it was perfect. They pay more attention than we realize!

[–]RainbowKitty77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One RP concept I have down pretty well while most I struggle with. My boyfriend will randomly bring me home surprises that may be like a cup or some treat I like to eat. I gush like they're big expensive gifts tho. It's so sweet!

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 4 points5 points  (15 children)

Great post, but you shouldn't be calling this strategy a trick. It's probably the only course of action that men don't consider trickery.

It works, too. I buy presents for u/girlwithabike sometimes just because browsing Amazon is more interesting than the meeting I'm sitting in.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 6 points7 points  (13 children)

Weird trick for getting alpha dudebros to buy you prezzies! Hallmark hates it!

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (12 children)

Snow leopards love prezzies! How else do we know we've been good kitties?

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 2 points3 points  (11 children)

Pets and tummy rubs.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Pets and tummy rubs are for conditioning good behavior day to day. Tangible gifts and out of the ordinary treats (experiences, vacations etc) let you know that your man wants you around.

The best gifts from alpha dudebro will show us that we are a part of their lives. What my husband is vague about in his comment is that most of the gifts that he buys instead of working are motorcycle parts. This is a part of his life he wants to bring me into and the gifts and the work he does on my bike reflect that. Those types of gifts let a girl know that she is doing right by him.

The OP's gun is similar. Her SO didn't give that to her as a trinket. It requires time and expertise to assemble. Also, a smart man doesn't buy a bad girlfriend a gun. She was a good girl and got a prezzy (is that the singular of prezzies?) that reflects time, effort and a desire to do things with her.

It's why looking at the intent is important...with alpha dudebros anyway... gifts from someone who has you on a pedestal are just things. Jewelry is nice. There is an evolutionary basis to women collecting baubles (a gay man told me this - so I can't source it - but his reading is fairly extensive). Given that, we're always going to have some attraction to gifts. A lot of women probably have an idea of what 'good' gifts are and for most it's not guns and motorcycle parts. But those types of gifts are the ones that actually tell you that he wants you to be a part of his life. Pets and tummy rubs are good but they aren't equivalent.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Tangible gifts and out of the ordinary treats (experiences, vacations etc) let you know that your man wants you around.

Given that, we're always going to have some attraction to gifts.

Now that you mention it, I just realized that marriage is something I consider a gift --- the only one that I will explicitly ask for, but could never find the right words to express why I feel so strongly about this one thing, when I have zero expectations for any gifts, ever.

Before starting any relationship, my "terms" are always: "Don't date me if you have no intention of eventually marrying me, because you won't have my commitment without it." (In case anyone else is reading this post, this is not advice, and definitely not "RPW"-ey to do :p)

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

when I have zero expectations for any gifts, ever.

Other than from my husband, gifts always make me uncomfortable. One of the rules of the human psyche is that if you are given something, you'll feel an obligation. Gifts tend to make me slightly uncomfortable with the obligation they create (whether it exists in reality or, more likely, it's just my perception).

I never thought about marriage as a gift...that's an interesting idea.

[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I relate to that feeling of obligation too. I'm also not into tangible gifts because I prefer a level of minimalism in my life. For treats or special experiences, I prefer paying my share so I don't feel like I'm being a burden.

I do show enthusiastic appreciation when I'm given gifts, but I prefer "quality time" more (not special experiences, just typical companionship). I enjoy giving gifts, however.

But I'd be lying if I said I did not feel entitled to being wifed if I proved myself to be a worthy girlfriend to keep around :p At least I'm very upfront about it!

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of where OP's SO was going with that.

The alignment between selfishness and alpha-male dominance is much stronger in TRP praxeology than it inherently is, because we live in an age of emasculated nu-males being browbeaten into stuff... hence TRP must teach resistance.

This is why showing up with flowers was fine 100 years ago, but equivalent to wearing a collar and leash today.

However, it also gives a key insight into when submissiveness as a strategy is actually working, because the same such men will start relaxing some of these restrictions for individual girls whose behaviour merits it.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I didn't think we disagreed entirely, I was mostly thinking "outloud".

This is why showing up with flowers was fine 100 years ago, but equivalent to wearing a collar and leash today.

We all should get together and decide that flowers are a waste of money and just do away with that practice.

This is tangential, but I'm curious if you think that submissiveness is a universally effective strategy or if it appeals to a certain type of man.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This is tangential, but I'm curious if you think that submissiveness is a universally effective strategy or if it appeals to a certain type of man.

Timely question. The next article I am working on for RPW will be entitled something like "Several types of man you should avoid submitting to".

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll await it with bated breath.

[–]pinkwaff1e 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oooooo

[–]CasinoLucky 0 points1 point  (1 child)

got a prezzy (is that the singular of prezzies?)

What is a prezzy to start with ?!

I know Prezi presentation and apparently it is a Prepaid Visa gift card but that doesn't really reflect anything really 🤔

Edit: Wait, is it just short for present ?!

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Presents :-)

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You shouldn't be calling this strategy a trick. It's probably the only course of action that men don't consider trickery.

I disagree. I don't believe a trick is not a trick if it actually works. A trick that it is so good you don't recognize it as a trick, is the best kind of trick.

[–]focuslady2 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is amazing, thank you.

Also: https://youtu.be/BOtOc5RPQ4s

[–]MsAfrodisiac 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Thanks so much for posting this. I do have a question about thanking your man. So, my guy is really generous when it comes to picking up the tab. I always say thank you, but he always responds with something like, "For what?". Should I just keep thanking him or tone down the thank yous? My fear is that I'll become complacent or he'll think I don't appreciate him and I really want to show him I'm grateful.

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 2 points3 points  (4 children)

"For what?" doesn't mean "I don't see anything for you to thank me for, stop that"

It means "Explain what it is that I did that you are grateful for, how you experienced it, why it was meaningful to you, etc, so I can understand you".

[–]MsAfrodisiac 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I explained it to him. Then he explained to me that he frequently picks up the tab because he knows he makes more than me. It's not about chivalry. In his mind it's only fair that he picks up the tab more. I see the logic in this, but I have mixed feelings about his response.

[–]CasinoLucky 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I am not sure if I am reading this right, but I think you are misunderstanding Whisper

I think he means, explain to him what you are thankful for at that very moment

Him: 'For what?'

You:

'for the lovely evening'

'for this amazing dinner'

'for showing me all those special beers'

Or whatever it is. Not necessarily explaining to him the issue you described here ( 'cause I think that is what you did, but I might have misunderstood your comments)

[–]MsAfrodisiac 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oops. Sorry. I think my reply was a little unclear. I meant to say that when he asked "For What?" I responded by telling him "For dinner/drinks." Then his response was to explain why he picked up the tab. He explained it wasn't for chivalrous purposes but for the practical reason that he knows he makes more than me.

[–]CasinoLucky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mmm, then I don't know! I guess he is just quite practical then haha

With those things non verbal communication often is important, so just speculating, but,

Maybe you put to much emphasize and emotion in it. If someone 'thanks' too much; it can be slightly uncomfortable, so he wants to downplay what he did a bit, to get you to thanks slightly less.

Or maybe put more emotion in it, an adjective or a smile orso. Maybe he sees your thanks as a very 'practical', not necessarily emotional response and he simply reacts to it in the same way

Just speculation!!

And also, this is maybe more of an issue in your head then in reality. It doesn't make it any less real, but for those kind of things often there aren't really any practical solutions or changes

[–]ta1901 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Working as a team just makes good sense for a relationship, and being thankful is just good manners. I see nothing wrong with that. :)