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THEORY'For Women Only' - Sex- Chapter 6 (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor

First, check out the introduction post here before you get started. Also, if you haven’t read the summary for Chapter 2 on Respect, Chapter 3 on Insecurity, Chapter 4 on Thought Processes, Chapter 5 on Providing you may want to do that as well. This post will assume you’ve read them.

Disclaimer: this is a summary of Chapter 6 in the book For Women Only not my own thoughts, feelings or research.

Let’s get started.


Tl;dr: Your sexual desire for your man profoundly affects his sense of wellbeing and confidence in all areas of his life.

 

We all know that men want more sex. Unless you and your SO have incredibly mismatched libidos, it’s a safe bet that your man wants more sex. What we don’t often realize, is how strongly a man feels this need or why. This chapter explores just how important sex is to men and more importantly what sex means for men and why it is so important.

The author was unsurprised to find an urgent theme that arose from her surveys: men want more sex. What she discovered when men opened up more is that men believe that women don’t understand that this need is a crisis for both the man and the relationship.

Women who understand that men need sex, tend to view it as a physical need. It is not hard to come to terms with that idea. What we miss is how much emotion men attach to sex. Though there is certainly a physical component, sex fills a powerful emotional need. And, because men don’t describe sexual needs in emotional terms, we often don’t realize it. The lack of sex is as emotionally serious to him as his sudden silence would be to us. It is just as wounding and just as much a legitimate grievance.

Remember all the previous chapters where we talked about men’s insecurity, feelings of inadequacy, the burden they feel? A man can feel isolated and burdened by these feelings that he never discusses. Sex assures him that he is desirable. It eases the loneliness and allows him to face the world with confidence. He cannot feel completely loved without it.

 

In his heart, he wants to be wanted.

 

To explore this idea further, the author asks the following survey question

Q: Regarding sex: with some men it is sufficient to be sexually gratified whenever he wants, for others it is also important to feel sexually wanted and desired by your wife. How important to you is it to feel wanted by your wife?

 

The question gets to the nature of sex. If it is the act itself, then men should be happy as long as they are receiving as much sex as they want. However, less than 1% claimed that feeling wanted was irrelevant as long as he got enough sex and only 2% said that it wasn’t very important to feel wanted. A full 66% said it was very important and an additional 31% said that it was somewhat important. For most men, the sex act alone is insufficient.

It’s unlikely that we women are intentionally withholding something that we know is critical to our partner’s well being. What is more likely is that women don’t realize the emotional consequences of our responses, or lack of them. We perceive the desire for sex as a physical desire or if we’re being cranky and unkind, an insensitive demand. For the sake of our relationships, it’s important to understand the truth behind our men’s advances.

 

Why is sex so important?

In the surveys two trends emerge. The first considers the benefits of fulfilling sex and the second the hindrance that rejection creates.

Across the board, men reported that having regular mutually enjoyed sex life was critical to their feeling of being loved and desired.

 

I wish that my wife understood that making a priority of meeting my intimacy needs is the loudest and clearest way she can say “you are more important to me than anything else in the world”. It is a form of communication that speaks more forcefully with less room for misinterpretation than any other.

 

Many men, even those with close friendships, seem to live with a deep sense of loneliness that is foreign to us women. Making love is a balm for that loneliness. It means there is one other person in this world he can be completely vulnerable with and not judged.

Fulfilling sex gives him confidence. As we touched on in ‘imposter’ chapter, most men ask themselves “do I measure up”. Our support and affirmations help our men to feel confident of their place in the world. Sex is just an extension of this idea. Your desire is a bedrock form of support that helps him face his daily life with confidence and wellbeing. Men are more confident and alive when their sex life is active and rewarding.

 

Q: imagine your wife was an interested and motivated sexual partner and you therefore had an active love life, how would having sex with her as often as you wanted, affect your emotional state?

 

About a quarter of the men surveyed (23%) said that sex is unrelated to emotions or how he felt about the rest of his life. For these men sex on demand would have little to no impact on his life. However, the remainder, a full 77% said that it would have a positive effect and that he’d have a greater sense of well being and satisfaction with life. Ask yourself, what is the likelihood that my man is in the minority?

Men tell us this all the time, but again, because they don’t speak in emotional terms, we hear the man code for this fact but we don’t understand what he’s actually saying. When he says he feels better when he has more sex, it’s easy to assume that he means it in a purely physical way. This is wrong, men repeatedly tell the author. They feel better and life feels better when they are getting enough active and mutually appealing sex. Put simply, it helps release life’s pressures and makes everything feel better.

 

What happens when he doesn’t get it?

If she doesn't want to, I feel incredible rejection.

 

Most men would rather do onerous tasks than have sex with a woman who is responding out of duty. The guy isn’t going to be rejected by his chores whereas duty sex feels like a rejection.

If you are responding because you have to, he knows it, and feels the sting of rejection. Remember that what he wants most is to be desired. If you agree to roll around in bed, but once you get there, you aren't engaged, he isn’t going to view it as something you do out of love. He hears “You are incapable of turning me on even if you try and what is most important to you, isn’t important to me”. If you flat out reject him with say, the standard: I’m tired honey, he hears “You re so undesirable, you can’t even compete with my pillow, and I don’t care about what matters deeply to you”.

None of us mean this of course. It doesn’t always matter what we mean, what he hears and feels are the pill that must be swallowed here. We may just be saying I don’t want sex at this moment”, but he hears that you don’t want him and that is painful.

 

Men Speak:

She doesn’t understand that I feel loved by sexual caressing and if she doesn’t want to, I feel incredible rejection.

 

“No” is not no to sex, as she may feel, it is no to me as I am and I am vulnerable as I ask or initiate. It’s plain and simple rejection.

 

She doesn’t understand that even her occasional dismissals make me feel less desirable. I can’t resist her. I wish that I too were irresistible. She says I am but her ability to say no so easily makes it’s hard to believe.

 

The feeling of rejection and the feeling that his wife doesn’t really desire him can lead a man to dark places. One only needs to visit the other RP subreddits to see the impact these rejections have on men.

Your lack of desire can send him into depression. If your desire gives him a sense of well being and confidence, then you can understand how the opposite holds true as well. The ongoing perception of a lack of desire will translate to a nagging lack of confidence, withdrawal and depression.

Men scoffed at the author’s push back. A string of rejections doesn't necessarily mean she is rejecting you as a man say women, We are tired, we work too and care for the house and the kids. Just because we don’t want sex, doesn’t mean we don’t want you. Men warn us back: Any woman sending those signals will undermine the loving environment she most wants because she’ll have one depressed man on her hands.

If you still can’t wrap your head around it, the author compares men’s need for sex to women’s need for talking and communication. Men can’t turn off the physical and emotional importance of sex. Regularly turning him down feels the same to him as his sudden silence would feel to you. Imagine how you’d feel if your husband didn’t talk to you anymore, or acted as though connecting with you through conversation was something he did out of duty.

 

We’ve been married for along time, I deeply regret and resent the lack of intimacy of nearly any kind for the duration of our marriage. I feel rejected, ineligible, insignificant, lonely, isolated and abandoned as a result. Not having the interaction that I anticipated prior to marriage is like a treasure, lost and irretrievable it causes deep resentment and hurt within me. This in turn fosters anger and feelings alienation.

 

How can we overcome the sex gap?

We must choose to love him in the way he needs. If you are viewing his need as physical, that is, important, but perhaps options, then you must stop and wrap your head around this chapter right away! When viewed this way, it’s too easy to make the argument that your need for sleep is just as important as his need for sex.

If you realize that he’s actually saying “this is essential to my feeling of being loved and desired and to counteract my feelings of stress and loneliness” your response should be very different. It is always ideal to respond to his invitation with your full emotional and physical involvement, knowing that you are touching his heart.

However, there are going to be times when you realistically cannot manage sexual intimacy with your partner. If you must say no, say with with words from the heart. Make sure that you are being reassuring, reaffirming and adoring. Leave him in no doubt that you love to love him. Through in the fact that you desire him for good measure. Promise to show him later if you can.

And if you say no in a way that reassures him, it can be better than saying yes and then engaging in emotionally detached starfish sex. If you respond physically but without meeting his need to be engaged and desired, STOP! If you are having sex with him, be engaged, you aren’t meeting his needs otherwise.

You must take an active role in sex. Many men want a wife who is sexually motivated. TRP and the Christian men that the author interviewed agree. Men want their women to be his slut. The religious men are slightly more circumspect. They say they want: * a girl next door in the living room but a wildcat in the bedroom*. This means you should make the first move from time to time and bring all you attention and passion for you man into bed with you.

Make sex a priority. Ask yourself, are the needs you are meeting the needs he wants met? Does he care about the dishes getting done or does he care about sex? Don’t focus as much on what you want to get done at the expense of your intimate relationship with your SO. Reevaluate your priorities, you can even do this with his help!

You can be a great wife in every other way, but not doing this one thing that is important to him, and he won’t feel loved.


Thank you for the gold kind internet stranger :-)


[–]kharlowe 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Very well written. The author, I gather, is female, but one of the seemingly rare ones who actually grasps what sex means to men. Well done.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

She is, and I don't get the impression that she started off with a strong grasp of the male psyche. There are a handful of stories in the book about her own lightbulb moments. The books is the result of talking to a lot of men and finding the commonalities. This was a big one.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's also (mainly) the result of her going in to this with the mindset of being open to really learn what men think without dismissing or minimizing anything.

[–]Jikira 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I have always believe this to be true and made sure that this would be me when I got into a relationship.

That being said I grew up in a home were my parents had a dead bedroom. I always had empathy for my dad and said I would never do that to the future man in my life. While I was single I was scared that I would not enjoy sex or that it would become a chore. Luckily, in my relationship now I find that I really enjoy sex and our libidos are around the same.

However, recently for external reasons we haven’t been able to have sex for some time. Those moments really reconfirm what is written above. Some of the things I learned...

  1. My boyfriend didn’t really mind that I couldn’t have sex because I initiated so often. He knows I desire him.

  2. Sometimes I just don’t feel like having sex for emotional reasons and not physical. I had to learn that I couldn’t just get turned on like he could. During those times, Communication was very important my boyfriend had to learn about my sexuality just as much as I had to learn about his.

  3. Regards to point two, If I do feel like this I still accept his advances. Usually that ends with me having a good time anyways.

  4. Sex keeps us in our honeymoon stage. When we don’t have sex we are both just a little more grumpy.

  5. The less sex we have the less my BF was willing to give me the attention I wanted. This was shocking to me at first, but I then realized it wasn’t something he was actively doing. Sex just equal affection for men and the more sex I gave him the more affectionate he is. As a result, I can’t constantly expect to get affection from him. If I do not give any.

A lot of these thing I knew in my mind, but it was so much more real for me during those two weeks we didn’t have sex because of external things. :)

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sometimes I just don’t feel like having sex for emotional reasons and not physical. I had to learn that I couldn’t just get turned on like he could. During those times, Communication was very important my boyfriend had to learn about my sexuality just as much as I had to learn about his.

This whole comment is really great. I just wanted to highlight something that you hit on here.

As much as we learn about men and being good partners ... you man should be learning about you too. Sex is a particular area where communication and figuring each other out is key. Sometimes I think that gets lost in all the "give him sex whenever he wants" talk and I'm really glad you touched on it here with your own personal experiences. No one is obligated to suffer through years of bad sex. Both parties need to learn to please the other.

[–]LookingForEquanimity 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Thank you so much for posting these summaries. Think I’m going to purchase this book. Will be good to know this stuff when I have a boyfriend. Ugh I’m so happy I found this sub. Possible stupid question... can you give an example of what to say as a rejection to sex that comes from the heart?

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You are welcome!! It's a really great book and even going through it the second time to do the reviews, I am still finding it a helpful refresher. Totally worth owning.

It's not a stupid question. She doesn't get into examples of this in the book so I've been thinking about how to answer you since last night.

The going assumption in our house is that we'll fool around every night. If I know early in the day that I'm not going to be up for it, I'll preemptively let him know that I need a break that night (Literally, "honey, I love you and lust you but I think I need the night off"). Sometimes I just get so fatigued that my body isn't going to cooperate. My thought is that this is preferable to waiting for his advances and then shooting him down. u/guywithgirlwithabike would have to comment on how graceful this is in reality because I never stopped to ask.

There are other times when it just gets to be later in the night, or the end of the day is tiring. If I don't think I can manage I'll say things like "I wanted you so much earlier, I wish we hadn't waited" or "You are just insatiable that I can't keep up with you!" or "We can fool around, I just don't think I have the energy to be any fun". Basically, I dig down past the tiredness and tap into the attraction I feel for him. Then I use that to format my excuse :-P

Sometimes he'll tell me that he'll do all the work, and if he pushes back like that I'll usually acquiesce because I figure if he's pushing back it's probably important to him. Most of the time he takes it with good grace. Sometimes if I sense that he's feeling sore about it, I'll promise a BJ the next day or describe what I plan to do to him/want him to do to me the next day.

I'll also thank him for giving me the break when I need it. I recognize that he's giving me space at the expense of his own desires. It may seem silly, but I like to express appreciation for that.

A lot of it is figuring out how your guy ticks. There will be some trial and error. You find out the things that make him feel desired and then you bring them out to balance things when you need to say no.

[–]LookingForEquanimity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! And I ordered the book. Receiving it tomorrow. Yay for amazon prime.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

u/girlwithabike has gotten the sex part of our marriage sorted out well enough that I recommend following her advice without adding any commentary of my own.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Your default should be to be receptive to sex, the rare exception should be to reject it and should be reserved for when you're really not feeling well and the like. Even then, if possible, give him a BJ or HJ or encourage him to masturbate near you.

The idea is that he feels you're irresistible and he wants to feel irresistible to you as well. If you can turn him away because you're tired, he isn't irresistible. He'll feel like your fatigue is a stronger force than your desire for him. He wants to feel desired by you and that this desire be irresistible.

This is also why it's important for you to initiate as well. Grab his junk in the kitchen, make out near the front door as soon as he comes home, kiss him passionately when you're on an outing etc. It makes him feel desired, wanted and irresistible.

[–]LookingForEquanimity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

[–]zaze12 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Sometimes with just an handjob you can have huge good results.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. It's regular sexual attention and affection and he's as happy as can be!

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

[–]ArcticFoxBunny 2 points3 points  (3 children)

You might google Laura Doyle’s thoughts on women initiating. She found she was inadvertently nagging her husband and he felt sex was just another item on his to do list. She found switching to receiving joyfully when he initiated worked. In your case it sounds a bit similar.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Your question about reconciling Laura Doyle with For Women Only disappeared so I'm going to respond to you here.

I think this ^ is the right advice for cases like the above when there are problems with sex.

I didn't read FWO as advice to initiate all the time. To me, this chapter was written at women who find themselves turning down their partners with any frequency. Over the long haul of a relationship, I think this is more common than the other way around.

I don't disagree with Laura Doyle that you shouldn't be the one initiating all the time. Is this something she says in Surrendered Wife? I don't recall it specifically. If it was SW, my only additional comment is that book is written for women who have an off balance dynamic. If you are wearing the pants in too many aspects of life (constantly being the one to initiate being one) then it's more likely to lead to an unhappy relationship.

So both these books are commenting on different types of relationship/sex concerns. The best idea is to take what works for your own relationship and discard the rest.

I do have a preference for FWO simply because she talks to men and it's and explanation from their POV. That doesn't mean it's the be all end all though. We don't always know our own motivations.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Although I was directly asked to reconcile Laura Doyle's view on initiating sex with the view of for women only, I was waiting for someone else to respond to it first because reasons.

The answer you give is a very good one. Laura in her book addresses the issue of the modern feminist woman wearing the pants in the house as a core issue in many marriages today. She isn't wrong about that but it is a subjective view nonetheless. It's a view that's formed out of marriages damaged by feminism.

OTOH, FWO addresses things from the perspective of a healthy marriage. What does a healthy marriage look like, how to best understand your man and what he needs and how to achieve the best results.

In other words - Laura is addressing marriage from the unhealthy state it's in and how to cure the ailment. Shanti is addressing marriage from a healthy standpoint and how to make it even healthier. Two different thought approaches, neither of which is wrong.

So practically speaking, what should you do?

Men have a deep seated need to actively feel desired, this is accomplished when you initiate too sometimes (and through your enthusiasm in sex etc). Men also have a deep seated need to be respected and admired. If you're wearing the pants in the house, he isn't getting either.

So ultimately it depends. As u/girlwithabike correctly pointed out - under normal circumstances that just need improvement, initiate. Under extreme circumstances where his ego has been utterly crushed and obliterated by you always taking charge of everything - let him do all the initiating for a while until you reach equilibrium. Then, initiate too.

In short, if your initiating may be seen as a power play, it's bad. If it's seen as an expression of mutual desire, it's fucking amazing!

[–]CleburnCO 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Jackie O wrote once, that a woman's true power was in the bedroom. I think she was correct.

Sex is love for men. It is love combined with validation, trust, acceptance, and desire.

It is a literal single point of failure that can both save and destroy.

A wise woman can OWN her man in the bedroom, if she is wise enough to grasp the concept and make it happen. The right words, the proper touch, and he is hers. Or...she can not. It is her power to use or throw away.

[–]nowyougotdryballs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm just going to say I love this comment, because I can't upvote it twice

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (2 children)

The author was unsurprised to find an urgent theme that arose from her surveys: men want more sex. What she discovered when men opened up more is that men believe that women don’t understand that this need is a crisis for both the man and the relationship.

Truth. Some people try to suggest that women seen sex just like men do. This is simply not true. Men certainly need sex more even though women need it stronger When they need it. They just don't need it nearly as often.

Regular sex is the number one reason for a man to enter into a relationship with you. Sure, number one means there are other reasons too. Sure, those other reasons are important and some are even deal-breakers. However, let's not fool ourselves. Sex is the number one need that only you can provide for him.

Respect and admiration are highly important (as mentioned in the previous posts). However, men are less conscious of that need and are less likely to be able to articulate their need for respect and admiration etc even if they are conscious of it. Furthermore, your sexual desire is a form of admiration and your lack of sexual desire is lack of admiration etc.

In his heart, he wants to be wanted.

This is what it comes down to. Do you want him in the way that he needs to be wanted?

It’s unlikely that we women are intentionally withholding something that we know is critical to our partner’s well being. What is more likely is that women don’t realize the emotional consequences of our responses, or lack of them. We perceive the desire for sex as a physical desire or if we’re being cranky and unkind, an insensitive demand. For the sake of our relationships, it’s important to understand the truth behind our men’s advances.

Men also tend to be more absolute in their sexual desire. There was a meme floating around a while ago that portrayed male sexual desire as an on/off switch and female sexual desire as an entire switch board of various types of switches of various shapes and sizes. There's truth to that, but what's pertinent to this point is - for you it may be a maybe yes, maybe not attitude. However, for him, he absolutely needs it. If you turn him away, he'll feel like you're turning him away even though you think you're only saying no to sex and not to him.

The flipside of this is for you to take that maybe and cultivate it into a resounding yes. Tips on doing that is worthy of its own post.

Fulfilling sex gives him confidence. As we touched on in ‘imposter’ chapter, most men ask themselves “do I measure up”. Our support and affirmations help our men to feel confident of their place in the world. Sex is just an extension of this idea. Your desire is a bedrock form of support that helps him face his daily life with confidence and wellbeing. Men are more confident and alive when their sex life is active and rewarding.

This is why consent is so unsexy. Consent is how you verbally acquiesce to the act. It's how you reassure each other that this isn't rape. You can't get much less sexy than that. Enthusiasm in desire is sexy.

If you are responding because you have to, he knows it, and feels the sting of rejection. Remember that what he wants most is to be desired. If you agree to roll around in bed, but once you get there, you aren't engaged, he isn’t going to view it as something you do out of love. He hears “You are incapable of turning me on even if you try and what is most important to you, isn’t important to me”. If you flat out reject him with say, the standard: I’m tired honey, he hears “You re so undesirable, you can’t even compete with my pillow, and I don’t care about what matters deeply to you”.

More truth.

He may hide the fact that he realizes your lack of enthusiasm, but he does realize it and it hurts him.

She doesn’t understand that even her occasional dismissals make me feel less desirable. I can’t resist her. I wish that I too were irresistible. She says I am but her ability to say no so easily makes it’s hard to believe.

This is a highly important quote that's worth repeating just to let it sink in.

The feeling of rejection and the feeling that his wife doesn’t really desire him can lead a man to dark places. One only needs to visit the other RP subreddits to see the impact these rejections have on men.

I was itching to point this out, but I decided to continue reading first to see whether you already did so. You didn't disappoint ☺

We’ve been married for along time, I deeply regret and resent the lack of intimacy of nearly any kind for the duration of our marriage. I feel rejected, ineligible, insignificant, lonely, isolated and abandoned as a result. Not having the interaction that I anticipated prior to marriage is like a treasure, lost and irretrievable it causes deep resentment and hurt within me. This in turn fosters anger and feelings alienation.

Reading this brought tears to my eyes...

It's true, lack of sex and desire on your part will not only cause him to become depressed, it'll eventually cause talking to you to feel like a chore to him. I'm sure that no one actually wants that.

We must choose to love him in the way he needs.

Another key phrase right here.

However, there are going to be times when you realistically cannot manage sexual intimacy with your partner. If you must say no, say with with words from the heart. Make sure that you are being reassuring, reaffirming and adoring. Leave him in no doubt that you love to love him. Through in the fact that you desire him for good measure. Promise to show him later if you can.

And if there's ever a promise that you really need to fulfill, this is it.

Additionally, whenever possible - BJ's HJ's or even just holding and caressing him as he masturbates can be incredibly intimate experiences too. The key is to do it in a way that makes him feel desired and that the "not tonight" be few and far between and in the broader context of intense regular desire.

This means you should make the first move from time to time and bring all you attention and passion for you man into bed with you.

This is really all it means. Men are simple creatures after all and are simple to pleas.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There was a meme floating around a while ago that portrayed male sexual desire as an on/off switch and female sexual desire as an entire switch board of various types of switches of various shapes and sizes.

It's just so easy for men :-P

The flipside of this is for you to take that maybe and cultivate it into a resounding yes. Tips on doing that is worthy of its own post.

This is a tough one because it depends on what works for each woman. I did think about this a bit while writing the post. To some degree the men's side of RP has this right -- if a man wants sex, he should be doing what he needs to to get and keep his woman turned on. Though y'all have my sympathy, it's a lot of work. But mostly we're receptive to sex more than we're proactive about it.

From the woman's side, I find that getting dressed in a certain way helps separate from the day and puts me in a better frame of mind. Taking time in front of the mirror to look sexy helps me feel sexy. That's easy to say for days when I'm up and perky and way harder to drag myself through after a long day. Flirty text messages through the day are another good one.

It's really about doing things that will build anticipation. Maybe I'll think about a side post on the topic...

This is why consent is so unsexy. Consent is how you verbally acquiesce to the act. It's how you reassure each other that this isn't rape. You can't get much less sexy than that. Enthusiasm in desire is sexy.

I'm glad I stopped dating in the age of 'no means no' rather than 'yes means yes'. Explicit consent is making us less able to read each other and giving women an excuse to not speak up (which makes us mentally weaker as people)...but this is a whoooooole other issues that's totally off topic.

He may hide the fact that he realizes your lack of enthusiasm, but he does realize it and it hurts him.

This is a rough one. I know I was here in the midst of working and finishing school. We were having regular sex but it was certainly not the affirming enthusiastic sex that my husband wanted. Then I was frustrated because I was trying so hard to fit this in for him even though my brain had so much else going on. Things got much better after school was over but it wasn't until I read this that I realize exactly what had been happening. In retrospect, we'd probably have been better off if we cut back on the frequency but I was able to be happy and enthusiastic when we did fool around. Live and learn (and then get luvs :-P)

I was itching to point this out, but I decided to continue reading first to see whether you already did so. You didn't disappoint ☺

:-D

Seriously, the rest of the network is such a learning experience as long as you can avoid getting emotionally invested in what is said about women. The key is don't be that woman and then you don't have to get offended by it. As a place to learn how men think, interact with other men and perceive their relationships.... great resources.

Reading this brought tears to my eyes...

It's heartbreaking isn't it. Author said it was heartbreaking and that a lot of men she talked to had the same sentiment. I had to include it because I had a feeling that it would get this response from a lot of the men.

It's true, lack of sex and desire on your part will not only cause him to become depressed, it'll eventually cause talking to you to feel like a chore to him. I'm sure that no one actually wants that.

In the days where we are all raised to be strong and independent to some degree or another, being a chore or an unwanted burden is the worst feeling I can imagine.

Additionally, whenever possible - BJ's HJ's or even just holding and caressing him as he masturbates can be incredibly intimate experiences too. The key is to do it in a way that makes him feel desired and that the "not tonight" be few and far between and in the broader context of intense regular desire.

The book didn't get into this, but another comment also mentioned hand jobs as a way of avoiding the 'not tonight' question. It doesn't have to be PIV intercourse, it has to be attentive and loving and involve some sort of touch. Creativity is good.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's just so easy for men :-P

☺ I guess that's one way of putting it.

It also means that when you've nagged/criticized/bitched/whatever at him one time too many and he loses all sexual attraction for you (yes, this does happen. As TRP saying goes - even the hottest girl on the planet has at least one guy who's sick of fucking her) - it's over and never coming back. Sure, he may remain married, but that attraction, that strong pull that makes him crazed in his craving for you, it's never coming back.

This is a tough one because it depends on what works for each woman. I did think about this a bit while writing the post. To some degree the men's side of RP has this right -- if a man wants sex, he should be doing what he needs to to get and keep his woman turned on. Though y'all have my sympathy, it's a lot of work. But mostly we're receptive to sex more than we're proactive about it.

There's no doubt that this is true and dread really does work (to the chagrin of many women here). Female nature is to be turned off as a result of male kindness, generosity, love, caring etc. It's counterproductive but it's still true. His love makes you comfortable and sexual arousal is a form of discomfort. Your kindness turns him on and so he's kind to you but his kindness is a turnoff for you.

However, although this is the instinctual female nature, it's not an absolute that it must be this way. You can consciously choose to love him for being kind, caring and generous to you. By love, I mean sexual love, the way he needs you to love him. You can choose this in several ways. Building anticipation throughout the day is one very useful way. I think you should write a side post about it! It's something so many women struggle with.

This is a rough one. I know I was here in the midst of working and finishing school. We were having regular sex but it was certainly not the affirming enthusiastic sex that my husband wanted. Then I was frustrated because I was trying so hard to fit this in for him even though my brain had so much else going on. Things got much better after school was over but it wasn't until I read this that I realize exactly what had been happening. In retrospect, we'd probably have been better off if we cut back on the frequency but I was able to be happy and enthusiastic when we did fool around. Live and learn (and then get luvs :-P)

OTOH, the reason he won't voice his displeasure is because he recognizes your effort and appreciates it. He therefore won't complain about it unless it gets really bad or really prolonged.

Men have a different way of communication. Any woman who complains that her husband doesn't communicate his feelings is flat out in denial of the truth. If you know how to read his communication, you'd realize that he actually doesn't ever shut up about his feelings, but that's really a topic for a different post.

Seriously, the rest of the network is such a learning experience as long as you can avoid getting emotionally invested in what is said about women. The key is don't be that woman and then you don't have to get offended by it. As a place to learn how men think, interact with other men and perceive their relationships.... great resources.

Which brings us to the concept of AWALT. It'll come sooner or later in the back to the basics series. What's key is to understand male and female nature, what's fixed and what can be bent for our benefit. Like the example I mentioned above in this comment about women naturally losing sexual interest as a result of male kindness but this can be redirected in a productive manner.

In the days where we are all raised to be strong and independent to some degree or another, being a chore or an unwanted burden is the worst feeling I can imagine.

Many women will wonder - is it so difficult to talk? What can be so hard? You're being ridiculous!

Many men wonder the same about sex. When we understand each other's wiring and needs, we can appreciate that yes, something that seems ridiculous to you is a real issue for your spouse and ought to be taken seriously.

The book didn't get into this, but another comment also mentioned hand jobs as a way of avoiding the 'not tonight' question. It doesn't have to be PIV intercourse, it has to be attentive and loving and involve some sort of touch. Creativity is good.

Here's a good analogy IMO. If your child is hysterical and needs you to physically clean them up and emotionally calm them down. Does it matter whether you're up to it or not? No. Of course not! You'll go all in and be 100% emotionally invested in providing the care that they need.

Obviously, I'm not comparing men to children nor am I implying that the male need for sex is childish. What I'm saying is that people have the capacity to go all in physically and emotionally when it's important, even when they had no physical or emotional energy left. Key phrase here is - when it's important.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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[–]mmerijn 12 points13 points  (0 children)

If that is how you read it then women are babies that can't even get through their day without someone affirming (talking positively) them. I propose neither, humans just have needs and if you hold contempt for others needs then you better be ready when they will completely disregard yours.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If that is your takeaway then you haven't been on RPW long enough. This is a particularly shallow understanding of men and an unwillingness to see things from someone else's perspective.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Do you think sarcasm was appropriate here, because I do not.