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DISCUSSIONRedpill Worries Me (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Szymmy

I do believe in gender roles and I looked to redpill to research and look ways I could improve as a partner and improve my "sexual strategy". But honestly I've simply been left with worry. This subreddit seems rather openminded and looking for self improvement but it seems the main redpill subreddit is full of men complaining bitterly about how all women are horrid shrews who will cheat on them with an "alpha", and that all men should just spin plates. I'm wondering how you ladies deal with it. I would like a man that shares my "redpill" values but It's hard to think thats possible when most of them seem to just want to sleep with me on the side. It's hard for me to imagine getting into a relationship with a man who takes advice from redditers that call all women bitches and claim we have limited intellectual capacities etc. And most importantly I fear the supposed wall. One moment men complain that women are promiscuous in their youth until they hit the wall, the next minute they talk about spinning plates and how only younger women are of any worth to them. Is that what I have to expect from men? That they'll simply leave me for some younger bimbo once i turn 35? How do you ladies learn to accept a community that seems to (largely) treat us as disposable? I'm not trying to bash men at all I love men. I am asking all this in good faith. I need advice on how to stop worrying about men only caring about me for my youthful looks.


[–]ILoveJuices 77 points78 points  (22 children)

Every man is looking for the NAWALT. /r/theredpill is essentially a way for men to protect themselves from being destroyed by marriage and children while still dating. If you can be the unicorn/NAWALT, then you will have no problems in the arena of commitment. Guys know when they have something special and will hold fiercely to it. A fair pre-nup can actually protect both sides from the fear of divorce-rape as well.

[–]Erfbender 13 points14 points  (0 children)

From a male perspective, yeah probably. Another aspect TRP doesn't like to admit on the limited intellectual capacity front is that most people, male and female, tend to fit the more pessimistic criteria of AWALT, probably should be APALT IMO.

[–]Szymmy[S] 12 points13 points  (19 children)

Are they though? I may be the NAWALT for now but what about when im 35? It seems the consensus is that once a woman hits the wall she's lost her worth. The problem si that this holds true outside of redpill... so many regular guys leave their wives for someone half their age its the tale as old as time.

[–]r2401 28 points29 points  (4 children)

nawalt or awalt don't have anything to do with age.

It's whether women are loyal and show traditional behaviors. Just bc a woman gets old doesn't mean she is not valuable.

For pickup artists, sure, but if you're looking for a woman to marry I think everyone acknowledges that people age.

[–]Nessunolosa 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Yes, age definitely does have to do with it. Some men, who I would not recommend commitment to, DO bin women once they reach a certain age.

A major component for any RPW should be an understanding that she needs to retain value to her man regardless of her age. This will inevitably shift to housework, child-rearing, and non-nagging as time goes on and looks change. A woman who does not work to retain her value is destined to lose a high-value man due to nothing but her age.

[–]MarquisDePaid 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Also

Male humans have a bonding process via vasopressin that produces the "wife goggles" effect that insulates the age effect mostly (assuming the relationship is good and has been investment worthy)

Role of Vasopressin in Human pair-bonding neurology (suggests natural monogamous behavior, which liberals don't want)

The "alt-left" globalists/comissars started kvetching at me because I noticed these alt left extremists edited Wikipedia to cover up/distort that detail

[–]Nessunolosa 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I would caution against using any one biological factor as THE causative one, given how confusing biology is generally and specifically how complex human biology appears to be.

[–]MarquisDePaid 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I would caution against using any one biological factor as THE causative one, given how confusing biology is generally and specifically how complex human biology appears to be.

Of course you're correct in that regard, but this is just one specific detail I reference because lately the "topminds"/"antihate"/"altleft" comissars have been pissing me off a lot and I like exposing/deconstructing them

As far as a further biological factor discussion goes, human male vasopressin is just one specific indicator

For fairness'es sake in this discussion we need to first objectively define "monogamy". It's important to set objective parameters FIRST because the "alt-left" neocomissar pieces of shit always attempt to bullshit/revise science and data to fit their social engineering narratives.

Anyways with the definition of "monogamy" we first need to look to non-human species to set a baseline comparison of social behavior to be expected

Praire Voles for example, which are monogamous, still have deviant behaviors present (occasionally non-pair-bonded sex, dysfunctional bonds that separate, etc)

Therefore some deviant behaviors will also be present in other monogamous species (what we could label as hypergamy, polygamy, etc, depending on frequency)

Aside from the human male Vasopressin study I'd add in two more extremely important biological indicators

The Hymen in women is one specific very visible recent evolution (within the past 100,000 years) of monogamy in women. It evolved INDEPENDENTLY in various hunter gatherer tribes as female sexual control was increasingly valued evolutionarily.

Another related feature, and one that appears to be unique to our speices, is the retention of the hymen or maidenhead in the female. In lower mammals it occurs as an embryonic stage in the development of the urogenital system, but as part of the naked ape's neoteny it is retained Its persistence means that the first copulation in the life of the female will meet with some difficulty. When evolution has gone to such lengths to render her as sexually responsive as possible, it is at first sight, strange she should also be equipped with what amounts to an anti-copulatory device. But the situation is not as contradictory as it may appear. By making the first copulation attempt difficult and even painful, the hymen ensures that it will not be indulged in lightly. Clearly during the adolescent phase, there is going to be a period of sexual experimentation, of delaying the field in search of a suitable partner. Young males at this time will have no good reason for stopping short of full copulation If a pair-bond does not form, they have not committed themselves in any way and can move on until they find a suitable mate. But if young females were to go so far without pair-formation, they might very well find themselves pregnant and heading straight towards a parental situation with no partner to accompany them. By putting a partial brake on this trend in the female, the hymen demands that she shall have already developed a deep emotional involvement before taking the final step, an involvement strong enough to take the initial physical discomfort in its stride.

Source for this claim is the book, pg. 82- Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape: A Zoologist's Study of the Human Animal, 1st American ed. , 1967.

Back to the Human male biological adaptation here's the source for Vasopressin link with pair bonding behavior

Lastly I'd reference the genetic y-dna/mt-dna lineage data, polygamous species act far FAR different with mating practices and offspring rearing, while meanwhile human genetics studies (of pre-agricultural societies) point to at least a 1:2 male:female reproduction rate. That is normal and well within the monogamy tier. Males have many factors against their successful IMMEDIATE/DIRECT lineage reproduction from unsuccessful intercourse, infanticide (when tribes fight and wives turned into concubine for the victor and kill the infants), being disposable (self sacrifice, tribal selection, being targeted by enemy males), etc.

That's not even getting into the nitty gritty details of infant/child mortality, males being killed and females remarrying or otherwise carrying additional children, etc

Homo sapiens are scavengers who, pre-civiliation, lived nomadic and hectic lifestyles, the succesful reproduction ratio of males to females is too high to show adaptations to polyamory (taking into account the factors I mentioned before, as well as acknowledging that genetic defects will lead to some defective humans incapable of healthy reproductive and social practices)

Another extremely important monogamy/sexology study to add is a reference to this excellent deconstruction of the AltLeft biological revionist "Sex at Dawn"

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 22 points23 points  (0 children)

"So many regular guys leave their wives..."

Over 70% of divorces are initiated by women. I think you may be a little blue-pilled regarding who is leaving who.

[–]ILoveJuices 26 points27 points  (8 children)

A woman loses her worth if she's AWALT, because looks are the only thing she has to offer. If you show me a regular guy leaving his wife for someone half her age, I will show you a cold nagging shrew who does not cook, clean, service her man, or treat him like a king. Remember, men do not face the hypergamy problem that women face.

[–]Szymmy[S] 21 points22 points  (6 children)

I struggle to believe that. Men may not be hypergamous but isnt it rp rhetoric that men are polygamous or want to bed as many women as possible which owuld definitely drive them to go hitch up with some bimbo. There are definitely shrews out there but I cant believe women are always at fault. I've seen some horrible husbands. I could easy revolve your arguement and say "Show me a woman who does not cook, clean service her man, or treat him like a king, and I'll show you a man who does not provide for his woman, give her adequate emotional support and intimacy and doesnt treat her like a princess."

[–]KrispyMcSockington 32 points33 points  (0 children)

You're right but no one is arguing that men are innocent. But those RP men, many of them were burned by a system that really doesn't care for their perspective or feelings because society is very gynocentric. For example, a woman can cheat on her husband, divorce him, take half and he may never see his kids again. She would still get more support from the law and from society than a man who did the same or similar. Even women who are abusive or manipulative get away with it far more than any man can because he is considered dangerous and she isn't.

What do they do when no one cares? Look at your comments here. Ask yourself if you would be saying the same if women were the ones angry about dating loser men who cheated and manipulated women. Generally speaking, women's relationship issues are treated with greater care than men's because of how often men are shamed or seen as bad for pursuing their sexual strategies while women get a pass. This is a level of privilege these men don't get, so they figured out they were screwed and need some support. A woman who has negative opinions of men is considered normal. A man with negative opinions of women is seen as sexist. Why?

At least they keep their issues to an anonymous internet forum and they are the minority of men (no killallwomen hashtags or bathing in female tears memes). When women complain about men there is often the view that others, specifically men, must somehow pay for it. Additionally, OP, would you be saying the same stuff on a male feminist sub about the misandry on a female feminist sub?

You cannot control what other people think or feel. There are always going to be negative opinions that some hold of others. You also missed out on posts where men were succesful, turned things around and had positive things to report, including on the married RP sub.

Finally, assuming RP women want those RP men is a huge mistake. Those tend to be lower quality men who are still figuring their stuff out. It's like assuming feminist women desire feminist men when they are actually wary of them. Their views may be similar but only the most attractive or succesful among them are going to get attention. RP women have different goals to RP men and that's part of the issue. Just because they both acknowledge female and male nature doesn't mean they have to hold the same opinions about it.

RP doesn't mean hatred of all things women, but rather not denying that women can and do behave poorly. This means men must learn how to protect themselves and how to be attractive to women in a society that has pretty much lied to them about their roles and what women desire. Anyone would be angry after realising they were lied to.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

    [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    It is never appropriate to suggest threesomes out of the blue. They are a complicated issue, worthy of their own discussion but not something to be suggested lightly to an OP who has not already expressed interest.

    Remove this line and let me know and I will reapprove the post.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Oh dear. You decided to argue with me. That was a poor choice on your part.

      A few points:

      The issue of threesomes was discussed over a year ago by the men and women on the mod team at that time. This includes the TRP moderators. The decision was made that it is not off the table for a topic of discussion if an OP asks but we wanted to discourage men from coming in and suggesting their fantasies to OPs who have no interest in sharing the fantasy. Threesomes are very complicated issues filled with many emotional pitfalls. Suggesting it to someone as a one line throwaway is a good way to destroy a relationship not save one.

      This was also written by the male moderating team:

      We don't recommend most men casually post on RedPillWomen, because a lot of them aren't very good at it. You're always welcome to lurk and read, but if you're going to participate, your familiarity with the norms and values of this sub should be apparent when you post.

      If you intend on posting here, you must be familiar with our sidebar, particularly the sections about male participation. Start with these: If you’re a guy and you’re here read this and Commitment or GTFO

      This is a women's discussion group and men are allowed to post here but they are held to a higher standard. We need the men here to explain how most men think not how you specifically think. In that context, your personal experiences are not worth as much as you seem to believe.

      Since you have accused me of censorship and bitched like a child about the rules of the sub, I will not be approving any of these comments.

      Edit for those interested or confused: If you're on a forum discussing relationships, it's implicitly acknowledged that romantic/sexual interactions between two people are very complicated. It stands to reason that adding a third only compounds the problem, and should be reserved for couples that have sorted things well between themselves first. Anyone that downplays the complexities of adding a third is not ready to give advice, in general, but particularly on RPW.

      [–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      To tell you the truth, people cheat because monogamy isn't a strategy that really serves individual sexual strategies, rather it puts limiters on them - for good reason - for there is no force more dangerous to a society than unrestricted sexual impulse. Hypergamy is especially problematic as it leads to the destruction of the family unit as well as disrupts social stability, and unlike polygamy (where it is possible to maintain attraction in parallel), hypergamy is serially designed to destroy attraction for the existing male in favour of gaining attraction for another. This is why traditional societies especially insist on controlling it.

      Men do not have a hypergamy issue, but there is a polygamy issue at work. However, after contraception came along, you have plenty of women trying the polygamy stuff as well - not only does it disrupt their own hypergamous cycles, but it comes with rather terrible consequences on their pair bonding abilities and ability to have stable relationships. Large scale data does not lie. Women overwhelmingly initiate the end of 70-80% of long term relationships and marriages.

      But yes, if a man feels disrespected in the relationship, he will go. Disrespect is worse than a death sentence to be honest.

      [–]jm51 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      It seems the consensus is that once a woman hits the wall she's lost her worth.

      Wife goggles are a thing. Assuming that she doesn't gain much weight, all she has to do is give them a clean once in a while and not do anything that breaks those wife goggles.

      If a woman marries at say 22, when she is 35, her husband will not see a post wall woman, he will see his beautiful 22 yo bride. If she divorces him, her next guy will see a 35 yo post wall woman.

      You can prove this for yourself if you know any '10 years and counting' couples that married when she was in her 20s. Ask to see their wedding album and then ask the husband how his wife has changed. If it's a good marriage, she won't have changed at all to him.

      [–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Men's drives are strong and can tolerate quite a deviation in SMV plus or minus. A woman would have to work quite hard to totally lose her attractiveness, but that does happen. Also after 10+ years, a lot has been invested into a relationship - hence the wife googles.

      [–]Szymmy[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      But I guess at this point I'm just hysterically worrying. Gotta face the real risks even if reality's hard to swallow.

      [–]anothdae 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      so many regular guys leave their wives for someone half their age its the tale as old as time.

      I doubt you will find a lot of guys just randomly leaving.

      What happens is the marriage falls apart and the guy moves on. The woman thinks she can move on, but realizes she can't too late.

      It seems the consensus is that once a woman hits the wall she's lost her worth

      Worth changes. Give a guy a couple kids and be key to his life, and your worth will shift from sexual to integral to his life.

      If you aren't helping your husband... they yeah, you are worthless to him. If, however, you are taking care of things that he dosen't want to deal with.. essentially being a housewife, then you will be indispensable to him.

      Yes, he will look at other, younger women. Just like you will look at hot young men. But if you two make a good team, you will stay together.

      And that's the point. You will fall in and out of love over your marriage. The point is making it so that even when you aren't madly in love, you stay together. You stay because he is a stable provider for you and your kids. Even when he hates his job, he goes in and works to provide food and shelter for you. He stays because you support and respect him. You have a clean house and food on the table for him. To put it crudely, you keep his stomach full and his balls empty, and that is 99% of what men want.

      Divorces happen when that breaks down. The man dosen't work (or loses his job) and can't provide. Or the woman dosen't fulfill the man sexually, or domestically.

      Think about the stereotypical career woman. She brings a paycheck in. The kids are taken care of by a nanny. The house by a maid. The food by restaurants and carryout. Throw in a dead bedroom and tell me what is keeping the man in that relationship? Hint: he dosen't care about your paycheck.

      Try to be the woman that a man couldn't imagine living without. I am not saying make him dependent... but kinda. Take things off his plate. Handle his food. Handle his home. Handle the shit in life that he hates, like clothes and meeting with little Timmy's spanish teacher for a conference.

      Traditional marriages work. The man works and provides. The woman deals with the household.

      When that dosen't happen, you get our current 50%+ divorce rates.

      [–]ayvyns 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Just sounds like these bitter men haven't fully swallowed the pill yet and are too fixated on trying and failing to get women out of their league. Notice how the valued contributors are never bitter... these fabled NAWALTs they are supposedly so desperately after are not as uncommon as they think... just not hot enough for them to give a second glance or repelled by their tactics. There was even a post in TRP awhile ago stating how game is less effective on "average" women.

      Unless indoctrinated by feminism, we women swallow the pill early on in our lives. We learn early on that our value lies in our looks, charm, and purity.

      If a man doesn't want to believe that he needs to offer real value (strength, masculinity, and provider status) then that's his problem.

      [–]WhatIsThisAccountFor3 Star 63 points64 points  (2 children)

      Ok so the redpill general sub is all about the "rage phase". People (men) gravitate toward the red pill sub because they are in a state of anger and frustration. You won't find many true alphas there, because the entirety of that sub is to teach men how to be alpha, and for upset non-alpha men to rant about their frustrations with women.

      Unfortunately, most men are not alpha. It's just how life works. Most men are not born good looking, most men are not competitive, most men are not strong and burly, most men are not sure of themselves, most men are not leaders, most men are not successful. These are all learned traits that men acquire over a very long period of time. And they are all very difficult to learn/acquire.

      Think of TRP main sub as a boot camp for men. You've heard military boot camps, and probably seen representations of what a boot camp looks and sounds like. They're vulgar, excessive, strict, unrealistic zones created so that men can learn how to be tough, strong, and how not to crack under pressure. It is not designed so that men can have the option to learn, it is designed so that the ONLY option is to either learn or fail. TRP is a mental boot camp for men. It is unrealistic and over exaggerated to show men that unless you work out, unless you are successful, unless you are charismatic, you are worthless. That beautiful woman who friendzoned you because she thinks of you as a brother would have fallen in love with you if you exhibited these traits. That is what TRP is.

      But with that being said, TRP just focuses on unfavorable truths. Monogamy is made for women and beta men. Monogamy is not designed for alpha men. A desirable man's goal instinctively is to spread his genes as much as possible, not to find the only woman who can likely bear a maximum of 5 like kids if they try. An alpha, if he listened to his genetics would try to have as many children as possible, and would marry as many of the youngest, most fruitful women he could afford. This is why the wall is a thing, because the older a woman is the less children she can have. It doesn't really matter what we learn to counteract our genetics, what women will be attracted to are always protectors/providers (strength and success in modern day), and what men will be attracted to are always the young and sexually attractive. The wall is an unfortunate real thing. You can never get back your youth. But lucky for women, polygamy is illegal in every first world country, so men are forced to marry if they want kids or a lifetime partner. And ending marriage is very messy and difficult for men.

      BUT there is another silver lining here that is actually positive for women. Men are very unlikely to be successful or strong when they are young, but women are very likely to be desirable and beautiful when they are young. This creates a sense of frustration among men who are not top tier, because they essentially have no options for the entire time after high school until they are around 27-30ish years old when (if) they've made something of themselves. This time period in a man's life is pivotal, because during this time is when he either finds a woman who sees potential in him and lives happily ever after, or when he becomes angry at the world and finds TRP or something similar to it. Men during this time are most likely to commit long term because they value loyalty way more than women realize. Imagine if you perceived yourself as worthless, and everything around you reinforced the feeling that you were worthless, but then some man swooped in and made you feel like you meant something to them. Even if you eventually became worth something, you would value that he saw your worth before anyone else did. Men are not different in this regard. This "in between" period is THE period to find a quality alpha who is still willing to commit.

      Your goal is not to see TRP and fear all men, your goal is to find men with potential before they need TRP and be the "happily every after" story.

      [–]Dunnistofage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I agree so much, TRP is not an alpha place. But it's still interesting to read how these guys discover all of this and their thoughts, struggles, etc... It's also very funny. I admit I've learned 1 or 2 things there though.

      Btw you're a guy right? (I could try to be more subtle like "are you a dude?" but no, I think you're a guy so I'm going to handle the negative answer if that's my destiny)

      [–]sonder_one 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      Men spend their lives being fed blue pill extremism. To get them recalibrated towards where they need to be, opposite extremism is applied. That is TRP.

      It's like how women worry that if they strength train, they'll look like female bodybuilders and be unfeminine. The reality is that most women are so out of shape that no matter how hard they're pushed in the direction of strength training, they still won't go too far.

      TRP tells men what they need to hear to get away from the blue pill. That's a good thing for women. Let it be. You know full well that a lot of what women discuss privately isn't good for men. Let them have their space.

      [–]ContemporaryBelle 30 points31 points  (2 children)

      I have noticed that even in married red pill it seems like a lot of the success stories boil down to getting a divorce and more women. It seems a lot of the red pill mentality is in direct opposition to keeping a long term relationship and it is reflected by how many marriages of red pill men are ending. There may be some truth in some of the theories but I personally would not want a partner who was deeply entrenched in the red pill community.

      [–]ThePantsThief 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      It's about a 50/50 split. But there's an inherent bias: men who frequently browse TRP statistically aren't in healthy relationships (if you're in one, you don't need help from reddit). Doesn't mean RP men are less common, just that they don't hop on Reddit and upvote posts like you're seeing.

      [–]jm51 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      This is MRP in nutshell:

      Lose weight. Get in great shape. Dress better. Become as attractive as you can.

      Learn to become a Sex God in bed.

      Become OI about not getting sex if she doesn't want to. Just cheerfully move on to the next thing.

      Get shit done around the house, manage the kids, finances, etc.

      Generally improve yourself in every way.

      If your wife is a bitch, realize that it's ultimately your fault. If she's mistreated you in the past, that's on you, not her.

      Always remember that she's a free agent and you can't force her to do anything.

      Any problems with MRP so far?

      Ah, the small print:

      Do this for a year or so. At the end of the process, make sure you give her a clear warning and a choice before ending the marriage.

      [–]r2401 20 points21 points  (16 children)

      You're not looking for the typical guy in redpill men probably. You're looking for tradcons.

      [–]Szymmy[S] 0 points1 point  (15 children)

      Yeh tradcons are generally more my thing. But my point still stands that surely redpillwomen is full of women that date men off the main redpill sub. So how do these women reconcile the typical redpill man's attitudes?

      [–]HelloImRIGHT 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      They are two completely different subs with completely different goals - they just happen to share some sort of foundation.

      TRP is what it is because the majority of those guys have been fucked over by reality. They say they don't want commitment but they do, if it's the right girl.

      This sub, along with MRP, is different, atleast for me. This sub values things that we've lost - or given away because of our current culture.

      MRP teaches me how to lead my family, how to overcome, how to be self assured etc.. Just as I think RPW does for females. TRP shares a RP foundation but went a direction that fits in line with most beta faggots who seek validation through women(which there are way too many of online). It's good if that's what you're looking for.

      Dont assume TRP is like any other sub. I've seen way too many children whining on it compared to this and MRP

      [–]r2401 26 points27 points  (1 child)

      I only recently discovered this sub so take this with a grain of salt but it doesn't seem rpw are looking for the type of guy on redpill men. they just share a similar name.

      redpill men is filled with pickup artists and a few mgtows.

      [–]Buchloe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      and a few of us just had a damn bad start, want to learn how to be self-assured and competent, and learn how to build the type of life/ family we want.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (7 children)

      redpillwomen is full of women that date men off the main redpill sub.

      That is overall untrue.

      So how do these women reconcile the typical redpill man's attitudes?

      Perhaps out of the 263,000 members on TRP you saw only a fraction of the men there and made a judgement about all the men. You probably didn't even see enough to know what is a "typical RP man" or see the same posters enough time to get a true idea of anyone's overall personality.

      You also don't know the status of commenters that you are reading. Are those men 19? or 39? Are they single, married, divorced? The attitude and general life outlook will be different across different groups.

      So you are seeing a small snippet of someone's comments on an anonymous message board and deciding that you understand who they. Then you came here and wring your hands about how RPW can coexist with TRP.

      Why the concern troll. Why does the attitude on TRP have anything to do with you

      [–]Szymmy[S] 9 points10 points  (6 children)

      I accept the criticism that I may not have delved deep into research. However I don't see how a man's age or marital status really plays into him calling women bitches or just basic hypocracy/logical fallacies. Certain things can't really be taken out of context.

      It concerns me because I don't live in a bubble, because men's attitudes towards women, specifically the attitudes of men within a subsection of society that I am likely to find a partner affects me.

      [–]HumanSockPuppetEndorsed Contributor 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      It doesn't matter why you are doing it. What you are doing is called concern trolling, and it is against the rules.

      If you were ever to find yourself dating a man from TRP, and if he were doing his job right, you would never know it. And if anything about his behaviour disturbed you, you would end it, regardless of his affiliaton or lack thereof with TRP.

      Focus on your own behaviour. It's the only thing you can control.

      [–]eatavacado 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Spittin’ fire, EC. You rule.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 19 points20 points  (1 child)

      My point is that even if all of the women here were hooked up with men on TRP - there are 23,000 women here to the 263,000 men over there. There is simply no way to say that ever single man there is engaging in those attitudes that you dislike.

      It is additionally the case that it is an anonymous message board. Some men are there to blow off steam and in real life you'd never know that they spend their time on TRP.

      Age matters because maturity matters and you will see different rhetoric from different age groups. Maturity changes people. Some attitudes are phases.

      Relationship status matters because it tells you why they might feel the anger and resentment and rage that they do. Can you really not appreciate how a divorced man or a guy who's LTR cheated would not feel a bit of rage and anger towards women. Empathy.

      I can dislike everything that is said on TRP and still accept their right to talk however they want in their space and not get my panties in a bunch over it. I know I've been hearing casual dismissals, jokes and mockery of men my entire life. It's what happens in groups of women. TRP isn't for you and me. It's for men to talk how they want and share experiences. Not all of it will be pretty.

      You went to TRP, didn't like what you saw and now you are here asking to be soothed. This happens pretty regularly. There is a write up on the sidebar about the different strategies between RPW and TRP. There are links about vetting the right type of man. There are old posts pretty similar to this one if you started to do any reading.

      Or you can just throw up a post looking for validation and that's so much less effort.

      [–]HumanSockPuppetEndorsed Contributor 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      I can dislike everything that is said on TRP and still accept their right to talk however they want in their space and not get my panties in a bunch over it. I know I've been hearing casual dismissals, jokes and mockery of men my entire life. It's what happens in groups of women. TRP isn't for you and me. It's for men to talk how they want and share experiences. Not all of it will be pretty.

      Nailed it.

      OP is trying to complain her way into the locker room so she can start policing men's behaviour.

      [–]Buchloe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      The point of the red pill is that you do the anger thing, and to do as much as you need to. But then hopefully you just come to terms with reality and relax in it. That could happen at any age, or not. But if it does, then the anger and "bitches this, bitches that" goes away somewhat and you just know what to watch out for, what is a quality woman and what isn't, and what is realistic to expect from women and what isn't. You develop confidence and other traits that women wanted all along. Things just start going better once you find that actual balance and sense of reality. You find your place and who you really decide to be, and women who like that present themselves. You now have standards for yourself. You don't stay involved with things that aren't in line with that. If you're the type that wants it, you'll have kids and get into the family thing. Or you'll prefer just spin plates forever and be ok with it. Or you end up the confrontational juiced up dude at the gym who's buff as fuck but has a violent chip on his shoulder and still isn't really confident. There's all kinds of dudes on trp for all different reasons.

      [–]teaandtalk4 Stars 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      A younger man, who's only just started learning about the red pill, may be (understandably) angry and unreasonable about women after learning 'the truth'. Those are the men that you see most often on bluepill pages, or that stick in your mind most when reading TRP. The more mature, more experienced men don't tend to have such a reactive attitude, but they're a bit quieter than the other ones. My husband would never read TRP, but he's still a traditional, wonderful man.

      [–]the_Milkweed 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Not all of us are angry, we are just tired

      [–]johnfire146 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      Some of the guys in there have been burned. Those guys will post more and will have stronger feelings on things. Compare it to marriages, you always hear about the bad ones but never really the good ones

      [–]ThePantsThief 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      TRP has a lot of authors with a lot of different mindsets. Swaths of angry, bitter young men go there in hopes of validating their feelings => posts about how much women suck get upvoted to the top.

      You have to really sift through a lot of crud there to find good reading material. I usually only read things from "endorsed contributors."

      [–]plein_old 13 points14 points  (2 children)

      I'm older than some of the "RP" male bloggers and RP reddit moderators, and it seems to me that, long before reddit existed, men and women noticed differences in each other, and some men and women appreciated those differences and tried to make the most of them, tried to complement each other well. This is something talked about in a lot of religious traditions, even, and in a lot of human cultures around the world.

      I'm pretty sure it wasn't invented with reddit. :)

      In terms of advice, I would say you might try identifying what qualities you look for in a man--you might even write them down-- and then review that list once a week so you keep it fresh in your mind. Then when you stumble upon a good man, it will be easier to recognize him.

      If you want to see a man I admire, check out Phillip Rivers, the Chargers QB. I'm not sure I agree with having children so quickly one after the next, but I admire some of his values and his ability to be a leader of men. He married his high school sweetheart, and he's big on fidelity and so on. He's also done well career wise. There are interviews with him on youtube. He seems like a decent guy to me.

      I'd also say, you might just ignore advice or ideas that don't feel right to you.

      [–]Szymmy[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      You're right about gender roles not being invented on reddit, and that redpill isnt the only resource for this matter. Thank you for pointing him out to me I'll have a look at him. But I doubt he's the sort of man that would roam the redpill sub. I suppose the answer is that I needn't date a redpill man at all. I guess I was looking for reassurance. It's easy to get trapped in the fear that all traditional men are redpilled plate spinners. Thanks

      [–]DelicateDevelopment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I also have to be careful about reading in RP because it has negative consequences on how I perceive men. In real life I don't know anybody who has similar views or would act like some seem to act.

      However, you might rarely get such a clear and unfiltered view on what at least some men seem to think and feel. The honesty can be brutal but in real life probably nobody would tell you these kind of thoughts. Understanding this seems to me to be needed in order to have a better overall picture.

      In many posts you can find there are also plenty of deep insights how some men perceive women. I found it particularly useful to understand how confusing and puzzling some feminine behavior can be. Looking at things from the inside makes them seem very obvious and one might forget about the fact that the other, the man, the partner, only looks at it from the outside. For me this is already enough of a reason to read in TRP.

      Many women I know can be terribly bitchy and also unreasonable. But most friends would rather take your side and comfort you instead of telling you ugly or uncomfortable truths about yourself. Reading in TRP is a unique possibility to understand how some of ones actions might be perceived by that other half of humanity.

      [–]noheaking 16 points17 points  (3 children)

      TRP and RPW are not in the same dating pool. TRP's main demographic are disgruntled former bluepills who are learning how to be successful with women. It is much harder to be successful with women if you purposefully limit the number of women you interact with by only pursuing monogamous relationships.

      RPW are looking for naturally RP men. Naturally RP men do not share the same attitudes as TRP. They haven't experienced the mass rejection, sexual frustration, or cruelness that the dating world can dish out. They aren't jaded. Don't waste your time on TRP or worrying about their perogatives when they are incompatible with your own.

      [–]JTRonald 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      "RPW are looking for naturally RP men. Naturally RP men do not share the same attitudes as TRP. They haven't experienced the mass rejection, sexual frustration, or cruelness that the dating world can dish out. They aren't jaded."

      Wasn't there a post recently here about how those natural men, actually don't exist and are always self made? Because that's the case. Being jaded and frustrated isn't a fixed state, it's just a mindset and hopefully a phase. You may have absolutely no idea what you "ideal alpha guy" was before and especially how he integrated all those truth.

      I do agree the demographic don't exactly match here, I think TRP, is more a venting system, reset button to put men in a different direction but it's not really an end in itself, it remind me of the time of the PUA and stuff, usually the real endgame of all of this is just holistic personal developpement once you have grown out of the phase.

      [–]noheaking 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm saying verbatim what used to be common knowledge in this sub 3-4 years ago.

      Naturally RP men exist. They are the ones that grew up in a nuclear home with parents that followed traditional gender roles. They are the ones who were raised to understand the strengths of men and women either through religion or conservative upbringing. Naturally RP men (that RPW would be interested in) are the ones who have a history of monogamous relationships despite easily being able to have casual sex.

      It's very easy to see who was raised RP and who had to learn the hard way. You look at his parents and his relationship with them, and at his past relationships.

      [–]Supernatural_20 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      My husband is a natural, he was 22 (I was 26) when we met and has been with only three other women, one he regrets because it was a one night stand and he thought she (a good friend of his for a long time) wanted something more. We have had long interesting discussions on RP topics as well.

      He has always wanted marriage and is baby crazy right now.

      They're out there, the TRP sub can be distasteful at times, but sometimes it feels like those guys were hurt in some way or are just posturing to get upvotes.

      [–]OilyB 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Don't forget TRP is designed to wade through the swamp of superficial, ego infested, materialistic women to get to 'real love' and to learn how to recognize it.

      Mgtow on the other hand, is to teach and coach men to entirely stay away from all women.

      Don't confuse those two.

      TRP teaches us all the important points on how to recognize 'bad' women. But primarily how to improve ourselves, how to increase market value, so as to flip the power dynamic - 'supply' becomes 'demand' and vv. The dating scene is a trough of superficial, highly demanding women we can't build anything with. We learn to quench our thirst of a good supply of sexuality in our younger years and afterwards we'd like to find true love. But we're made fully aware of the pitfalls on our way there so we don't make any mistakes our bp brothers make. Superficial women use us, we just learn to use them back by being in high demand by as many women as possible.

      Hope this helps.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Mgtow on the other hand, is to teach and coach men to entirely stay away from all women.

      Some MGTOW judge everyone on an individual basis. Some MGTOW don't avoid women at all. Some MGTOW are in long term relationships, like Bar Bar, one out of very few of the earliest MGTOW content producers on youtube. One of the foundational ideas in MGTOW is that one should never sign a marriage contract and that marriage is incredibly dangerous. Apart from that idea, and generally placing value on personal freedom, it leaves a lot of breathing room for "male individualism" which is synonymous with "Men Going Their Own Way".

      I don't make any effort to avoid women. Though I do avoid the public in general. My avoidance is more egalitarian. =D

      [–]OilyB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's all about awareness, really. Which is good for some of us. I was raised by a dad who thought he was supposed to be 'above' any female misbehavior. I copied that. But it was a time (and place, latin America) when women took enough responsibility over their relationship and family, additionally being agreeable and inspirational instead loudmouth demanding stuff and being overly 'strong and independent'.

      So now I'm doing firmware updates on TRP and MGTOW.

      [–]ContemporaryBelle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      True. I have been pondering if part of the problem is that by the time a lot of men find red pill it's been after years of a bad relationship or when they have been entrenched in bitterness. There does seem to be a bit of difference in outlook though between RPW and the other red pill groups. Posts I have read in this group emphasize that a woman needs a man with a healthy blend of alpha and beta traits to be a good husband and father whereas in the other groups it seems like a lot of one-upping on how to be the most alpha. Maybe the philosophy is fundamentally the same but the bitterness and feelings of emasculation I suppose makes the male competitiveness manifest as a toxic show of trying to be the most manly.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      I think a lot of the RPW concepts work Very well with men who never heard of the red pill.

      Don't use RP men as your template. A lot of them wouldnt be on the RP forum if they met women like y'all initially.

      [–]JJ33141 Star 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      “One moment men complain that women are promiscuous in their youth until they hit the wall, the next minute they talk about spinning plates and how only younger women are of any worth to them. Is that what I have to expect from men?”

      Your worries are justified. I would advise you find a traditional man, not a “redpill” man per se, because the traditional man is not yet cynical about marriage. And then it would be partly up to you to decide whether or not your marriage becomes a stastic, or thrives.

      I include the above quote to point out that the redpill is in response to female promiscuity. It’s not the cause. The cause was the sexual revolution, and the horse is out of the barn by this point. No individual man has the power to change this behavior in young women, which is widespread. Therefore the attitude is to “enjoy the decline,” since the unacceptability of your typical woman for marriage is assumed as a given (particularly given current divorce laws). An older woman, who was part of this promiscuous culture when she was younger, is thought to generally add nothing with age. It’s an attitude that completely makes sense IMO, though I think some men can find subpopulations of women that are worth the risk of marriage.

      [–]r2401 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Yup. Seems women here want to marry someone like Paul Ryan. Not some pickup artist player

      [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      House Speaker Paul Ryan is 48 years old, married his wife in 2000...so 18 years of marriage and 3 x kids.

      48-18 = 30. Age 30 at marriage - assuming his wife is 5-6 years younger and was relatively chaste, a career woman of integrity, virtue, and high moral character who invested in a solid, stable, hardworking, loyal, man of character and integrity... PR's wife made an excellent choice EARLY in life.

      NBA superstar, Stephen Curry's wife - Ayesha Curry followed pretty much the same format, and legend has it the couple stated dating in college with confirmation of marriage in 2011. The couple produced 2 x kids. Steph is 30 years old and his wife is pretty close to his age. Also - Steph regularly professes his Christian faith..so there's that.

      It's not foolproof, but that reflects the basic format to avoid all this "pumping and dumping" they discuss over at TRP.

      [–]digbybare 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I find that, although both subs believe the same fundamental truths about biological imperatives between the genders, they have different goals for what to do with that knowledge.

      Red pill theory says that men have a drive to mate with as many young, beautiful girls as possible, while women want to secure commitment from the single highest value man they can. As far as relationship dynamics, this means that men naturally want to be players, and women naturally want to branch swing, neither behaviors leading to a strong monogamous relationship.

      TRP takes this knowledge and says you should embrace your natural masculine desires. It's all about teaching men how to become alpha and be able to sleep around.

      RPW on the other hand is all about teaching women how to consciously resist their natural inclinations to branch swing. It's more of a sub of understanding your base instincts, and how you can work to overcome them.

      So, they're actually not complimentary subs at all. The opposite of TRP would be a sub teaching women how best to covertly hunt for a higher value man while they're in a relationship. And the opposite of RPW would be a sub teaching men how to try to overcome their desire for variety and instead commit to one woman.

      [–]Zahlix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I would like a man that shares my "redpill" values

      So you want him to give up his natural sexual strategy and value yours instead?

      • Red Pill is about the amoral truth of intersexual relationships
      • Red Pill does not have values
      • Red Pill is about maximizing your leverage in the SMP no matter your gender

      If you go into red pill to get more attention from men and have a broader/better selection of men, that is the equivalent of a man spinning plates. There are no values attached to this.

      Read up on your basics and learn about hypergamy. When you use the word "red pill values" you mean "my sexual agenda". You want him to betray his sexual strategy and adopt yours with only your own benefit in mind.

      He will trade you in for a younger bimbo if you are currently nothing more than an aging one.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Stop reading that forum. The majority there are not representative of high value men. They are in training or complaining.

      [–]tuyguy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Most members of the TRP sub are bitter, angry young men. I was one and I visited that sub every day for a couple of years. I read the entire library in the sidebar.

      It's more of a place where young men go to understand modern sexual dynamics and to let go of their anger. You're there to learn, grow, acquire skills and change. Then when you're done you can leave. And yes there is no shortage of circle jerking about women's flaws. You don't want those guys anyway and most men aren't like that.

      [–]Fearofthedark88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I read that sub occasionally, I disagree with the assumption that women are inherently less intelligent or emotionally unstable. I believe that women as whole are socialized to act certain ways in order to be controlled.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Hey. I’m RP but with a wonderful woman at a 4 count including me. She gives lots of value to my life and as a result I have sworn off plates. Plenty of RP men have LTRs. Most wont marry just because marriage laws are fucked for men, but that doesn’t mean we won’t give commitment to the right one.

      The real problem is that because of the feminism fueled cock carousel ideal men can constantly get laid. This means you have to decide whether to put out early and hope to oxytocin him into bonding but risk walking away with another n count, or to play it conservative and risk him losing interest because of how important sex is to us.

      Good luck. Thank you feminism for providing quality men with unending sexual partners to the detriment of traditional women who now must compete in a slut fueled sexual market. May you be lucky enough to find a quality guy just as he’s looking to LTR like my girl did. Don’t blame RP for these conditions, blame 3rd wave radical feminism.

      [–]Zohso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You genuinely need to filter the hate. A lot of men here have been burned and are bitter. Understandably. Most here, like yourself, are looking for self improvement. Just filter it out and keep working on you.

      [–]cherryhearts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      To give you an idea, a lot of the men in that subreddit are very jaded due to their past experiences.

      You're still looking for a man of value - speaking for myself I sure as hell wouldn't want to be with one of those big cry babies.

      There are many men who follow the redpill theory without being total knobs. In fact most of those men aren't spending their time whining about women on reddit I can assure you that.

      [–]denimondemon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Men do care about youthful looks and it is prudent to find a good man while you have them. But as long as you treat him how he wants to be treated and work on improving yourself you will be fine.

      The red pill truth is women are bitches that bitch. This is because we historically needed to test a man's loyalty and ability to help us because we were pregnant or with a small very need infant for a lot of our reproductive years.

      Find a man whose parents are still together. If your mate's father is a family man than chances are he will be.

      [–]i_have_a_semicolon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      What you want to find is a man who isn't bitter about women, and you'll be fine. Honestly what percentage of the population you think consists of these men? I wouldn't think it's very high. There's so many guys who don't view women this way. It might be easier for me to say because I found the right guy, but I think there's plenty right guys out there and you gotta focus on being the right gal and scouting the right guy out.

      [–]IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      The TheRedPill subreddit is for men. It optimises for male sexual strategy.

      RedPillWomen is for women. It optimises for female sexual strategy.

      They share the same core of ideas, but use those ideas to get different outcomes.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Women are free to choose who please them. There is little reason to worry. Outside of assault or rape, no man can force a woman to accept him.

      [–]Bruchibre 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Hello friend,

      Redpill like you say is a community, which implies minority :)

      Likewise if a man doesn't want to be with a "promiscuous woman who hit the wall blablabla" he should just look for someone else who shares similar values, if you don't want to be with a guy following Redpill it should be easy to avoid meeting such a guy, just move on if you feel that a guy is not treating you well.

      Is that what I have to expect from men?

      No. Only from Redpill men and I dare you to meet one in real life.

      That they'll simply leave me for some younger bimbo once i turn 35?

      No. I think such men wouldn't be with you to begin with so don't bother.

      How do you ladies learn to accept a community that seems to (largely) treat us as disposable?

      OK I'm not a lady. But like I said you don't have to accept the community :)

      [–]ChrismaKwanzukah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      what is NAWALT?

      [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If you didn't want to know what men really thought about you, you probably shouldn't have gone poking around a male-dominated internet forum dedicated to sexual strategy.

      Maybe you could direct your concern towards how we all came to be in this situation. That sub has over a quarter-million subscribers. How badly do women have to be fucking up for something like that to happen?

      [–]theoppositeopinion1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I need advice on how to stop worrying about men only caring about me for my youthful looks.

      What else do you offer? If all you have going for you is looks, then yes, you should be worried. However, hopefully you have other things, like:

      • a pleasant demeanor

      • supportive and make him feel good

      • good cook, other domestic duties

      • good follower, help him on his mission

      • if you want to be a stay at home mom, add economic value other than bringing home money (pack lunches, sew new curtains so you don't have to buy them)

      [–]samjsmrnm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I totally agree. I'm sure all women who are familiar with TRP worry about hitting the "wall" but the best advice IMO is to always be improving myself all aspects. Keep hitting the gym, eating right and be a pleasant and loving partner. I have no doubt that my Husband will continue to love me and be attracted to me as long as I do everything I can to maintain what I know he wants in a wife. No one said swallowing the pill would be easy and that you would like all the harsh truths but that's just the reality of it, take it or leave it.