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RELATIONSHIPSPromiscuity and pair bonding (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by [deleted]

Hi everyone,

I posted here for the first time last week, and I just wanted to thank everyone who commented for their insightful and constructive advice. I loved how honest you ladies were with me.

Anyway, I was prompted to write this post after watching Lauren Southern's "What Every Girl Needs to Hear" video (go watch it if you haven't already). She discusses how promiscuity has a detrimental effect on a woman's ability to pair bond with a partner.

To all of my fellow college RPW out there, please, don't let anyone convince you that you're missing out by not riding the CC. Maybe you're like one of my best friends, who has been in a committed relationship with a great guy for a few years, but you see your friends going out and meeting new guys every weekend and wonder if you should be doing that too, because that's what modern society dictates college-age women should be doing. It bothered her so much that she considered asking her boyfriend to open up the relationship, even though they've talked about marriage. That's how brainwashed our generation has become.

As someone whose n-count is in the 20s, I told her, point blank: it's not worth it.

I mentioned in my last post that I have bipolar, and that I am hypersexual when I'm manic. This resulted in my count going from 1 to 20+ in a matter of 6 months. All of these were hookups.

9 times out of 10, guys who want to hook up with you DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. AT ALL.

You're just a plate to them, no matter how nice they seem to be. That's the best case scenario. There are also men out there who can seriously hurt you. I was raped by one last year. That just goes to show the kind of people you can come across when you venture into the world of meaningless sex. They have no regard for your feelings, or, in some cases, your personal safety.

Given my high n-count, I feel that sex isn't as special to me anymore. I have to actively try to feel the connection with my partner, when previously it came naturally and effortlessly. I can still feel it, but it doesn't feel as strong as it did before.

Also, I can't help comparing my current partner to all of the partners I've had in the past. It keeps me from truly enjoying everything he has to offer.

Don't sabotage your ability to pair bond just so you can fit in with your blue pill friends. Sex is very important to men (and women, too). For most men, it's how they feel most connected with their partner. Like men, I also primarily prefer giving and receiving love through physical intimacy, and now I feel like my ability to receive has been compromised. Trust me, you don't want to be in my shoes.

I know it's highly unlikely for a woman in this day and age to save herself until marriage or have a count of 1 unless it is in the context of a religious upbringing, but at least try to limit your sexual encounters to men you are in committed relationships with. It's not just because of retaining your ability to pair bond, or keeping your RMV high, but simply put, sex is better with someone you love and who loves you.

My fellow young RPW, don't sell yourself short.


[–]Banincoming 75 points76 points  (6 children)

It bothers me more than I should let it when most of the subs on this site push the idea of fucking every stranger you meet to make sure when you find "the one", you will be "sexual compatible".

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I completely agree. It's ridiculous.

You're not going to find The One™ by riding the CC, sorry to say. Neither do you need to test your sexual compatibility with people you wouldn't seriously consider for a relationship. That doesn't even make sense.

Sleeping around indiscriminately is neither "liberating" nor "sex positive," contrary to what blue pillers say.

[–]Red-Curious 23 points24 points  (2 children)

Seriously ... it makes me angry just thinking about it. The sad realty is that it's not just coming from peers, but from some parents even! I handled a divorce case where the mom was on websites (still married, mind you) where she would find men who would pay her money to go on a date with him with an option to pay more to guarantee the date included "time at a private residence" - as if we don't all know what's really being paid for.

The sick thing, though, was not that the mom was doing this or even modeling this behavior in front of her daughter or exposing her daughter to dozens of strange internet men with no vetting (usually 2-4 per weekend), but that she was actually bragging about it to her 13 year old daughter suggesting that it was a great way to earn money and figure out sexual compatibility with a man at the same time. I can only imagine where that daughter is going to end up 5 years from now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This makes me sick. I hope she got supervised only!

[–]Red-Curious 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's what the psychologist recommended. My client decided to settle ... but at least he got custody.

[–]RedPillWonder 11 points12 points  (0 children)

to make sure when you find "the one", you will be "sexual compatible".

One of the greatest lies/deceptions of our time.

And one which has greatly diminished future happiness and/or caused untold damage to many women who bought or buy into it.

[–]xelaandra23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

omg...agree so much. this really bothers me.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (43 children)

My viewpoint is very different.

While TRP warns of a high N, I think the true story is that men just don't like promiscuous women, specifically women who have a higher n than themselves, purely out of insecurity.

Someone on TRP read 1 study and inaccurately tied promiscuity to divorce. Sure, there's a correlation obviously, but there's no data to say that n-count is the specific cause. What's more likely is that people who are promiscuous have personality traits that would lead to an inevitable divorce anyway, like a lack of vetting.

I mean, we don't fall in love from sex itself anyway. We fall in love from the intimacy that happens around the sex. It's the non-sex things that make us "bond" in the first place. It's why you can have a ONS, leave at 6am, and perhaps you'll feel dirty/guilt, but you're also perfectly capable of falling in love with the next guy.

What CAN happen is that with rejection and pain, people block themselves off to "bonding" to avoid being hurt. They become hardened, jaded, and actually refuse normal "couple" behavior to protect themselves. This isn't even specific to sexual relationships and it's definitely not specific to women, I'm sure you've witnessed it in social relationships too.

So to OP, while I sympathize with your personal attitude towards sex as being "not special" anymore, it's completely anecdotal and even self-inflicted. It's a feeling that you have the ability (and responsibility) to change. It's your mind that has devalued sex.

I'm not saying this to prescribe the CC, merely to be a little more honest about female sexual nature and TRP's agenda.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 27 points28 points  (4 children)

I think the true story is that men just don't like promiscuous women, specifically women who have a higher n than themselves, purely out of insecurity.

Say what you like. Reality is that men care about this from a RMV standpoint. The more sexual partners you had, the lower your RMV is to men.

This is true for quality men. Sure, a man who feels like he can't get anyone, will marry the first woman who says yes. But to a quality man who has options, we'd rather marry a virgin. Look into history and you'll find culture after culture, religion after religion, geographic area after geographic area who all placed a premium on female virginity.

You think it's insecurity? That's fine, but that won't change human nature. The reason why men have this preference is because it's embedded within male nature. Some have tried to explain why male nature is like this, some have offered good explanations, but one thing is for sure - this is nature.

I know it's difficult to accept that your value is lowered just because you had more sexual partners, no one wants to think of themselves as damaged goods. However, this still doesn't change the nature of men and what men find attractive or repulsive. Having had many sexual partners is something that will make you repulsive to most men. It's uncomfortable, but TRP and RPW is about accepting the truth about human nature even when it's uncomfortable.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I know it's difficult to accept that your value is lowered just because you had more sexual partners

You are missing my point entirely. I completely understand and agree with the statement "men prefer women with lower n-counts".

I do not agree with the statement made by men that "higher n-count girls are incapable of pair bonding".

As an aside, it's hilarious that multiple men have replied to me, trying to change the script. I'm not some girl sitting here trying to rationalize a high n that I don't even have. I am simply trying to spur a more truthful (scientific) discussion.

[–]Boobear3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I bond very well (maybe too well, lol) to men that I date. I am very loyal to men that I am committed to. I hardly even speak or hang out with other men while in a serious relationship. And I have what some may consider a "high N' (although compared to a lot of people I knew when young, it really isn't that high). When you are young and around peers where hooking up is normal, well, that is just what happens, unless you are deeply religious or something and "saving yourself for marriage". I see your point about the aversion to women with "high" N may be due to insecurity on the man's part that he simply has slept with a few less people and that can hurt his ego. One guy i knew even told me he did not care about a woman's N, and he admitted he had slept with a good amount of women while he was single.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From anecdotal experience, there does seem to be a difference, like OP, in the ease at which pairbonding comes. I had mostly dated girls that had a lot of previous partners. When I ended up dating a girl that had had only one previous partner, I couldn't believe how different it was. She may just have been an exception.

It seems to me, that there does seem to be a generalisation to be made. Incapable of pair bonding is probably worded too strong. Significantly less capable? I think so.

Although I have to say that I'd probably value a average to high n count redpillwoman about equal as a low N count bluepilled.

Though I would not in my current state call myself a man of high quality, so keep that in mind when you judge what I wrote here.

[–]Cheveyo 10 points11 points  (3 children)

While TRP warns of a high N, I think the true story is that men just don't like promiscuous women, specifically women who have a higher n than themselves, purely out of insecurity.

Wasn't there a study that ended up showing that women who have a partner count higher than 1 have a harder time maintaining long term relationships? With women who have had 2 partners having an equally difficult chance of maintaining a LTR as men who had slept with 19 women?

We're not talking about marriage here, nor about men avoiding women because of their count, but about simply people with X previous sexual partners having a harder time keeping a LTR.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was one study on marriage, not LTR's.

That study found that:

  • Being a virgin before marriage has the lowest chance of divorce (but they say this is likely because most virgins are religious, which confounds it)
  • Having more partners leads to a higher chance of divorce, however this only became true from the 2000s onwards. Before then in the 80s & 90s, having exactly 2 partners had a higher chance of divorce, even higher than 10 partners.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I feel like the majority of people with only 1 sexual partner are religious though, and thusly there may be other factors which lead to less divorce.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (17 children)

It's your mind that has devalued sex.

A lot of things are "just in your mind". It doesn't make it any different. I was going through serious withdraw after I stopped smoking, and a friend said the same thing ("it's just in your mind"), which is not at all helpful and is obvious.

Also, men not liking promiscuous women simply due to insecurity is a lie. Are you a male? I am. Most men have a deeply instinctual and gut level revulsion at the thought of committing to a woman that was clearly overly promiscuous. I can think of it right now and have the same reaction. I've always had it. It is almost the feeling of imagining taking a hamburger out of the garbage and taking a bite. Many, many men are like this. We actually talk about it online and IRL.

[–]Spazzy19 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I get the same feeling when I think about overly promiscuous men. There's a thrill at the thought of being in bed with someone who hopefully knows his way around, but I would not want to commit to a guy like that.. therefore I avoid it all together.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (8 children)

Downvoted for nicely explaining RP truths?

What has happened to this place?

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I know.

    It's a trend I've seen recently.

    [–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    We are being flooded by new users. We need endorsed contributors, like you, to set the tone for the sub.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yea....

    This place has changed since the exposure a few months back. I'll do my best - time permitting - to add my thoughts as much as possible.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

      deeply instinctual and gut level revulsion at the thought of committing to a woman that was clearly overly promiscuous.

      Well, this is precisely what I mean. Forget the insecurity part, that's just my opinion, but how you describe it as revulsion, means that it's just a personal preference. And having preferences is completely fine. What I'm refuting is the narrative that a woman who has casual sex is somehow damaged in terms of not being able to emotionally connect with someone. There's no reported biological or neurological response that proves such a thing. Frankly, it's TRP pseudo-science.

      A lot of things are "just in your mind". It doesn't make it any different

      Well, respectfully, I'd argue it does actually. It's your perspective that matters. If you think that you're damaged, you are damaged.

      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      Well, this is precisely what I mean. Forget the insecurity part, that's just my opinion, but how you describe it as revulsion, means that it's just a personal preference.

      Absolutely, it is a personal preference. But it is nearly a universal one that is across cultures. A few men just don't care. Some of those are low value/desperate or players that have screwed a boatload. Then there are men that like it. Those are usually fetishists of some stripe. Take 2 women exactly the same and both 25 y/o, except one has been with 5 guys that she dated in a monogamous and at least somewhat serious way and one has had a lot of casual sex (let's say over 50 men, many FWBs, etc). Almost all men will choose the girl with the 5 count.

      It is so common across cultures and over time that there is likely a biological reason. And no surprise, it is very easy to come up with an evolutionary path for this preference, just like how women prefer tall and strong men.

      I do think promiscuous women can bond and connect. In fact, I have bonded with them and vice versa before I found out their past. So, I've felt this. However, their bonds tend to be more flimsy and short lived. Whichever way the arrow of causality point, it is obvious that women that value deep emotional connections with men tend to associate sex with that bond. They are therefore less likely to be willing to have a lot of sex outside of relationships. It is almost a tautology. If you value bonds and think sex is important and a meaningful connection, then you are less likely to have it casually. My ex GFs that I found out were promiscuous were the worst GFs I've ever had in my life. And it was because the type of woman that can easily be promiscuous also will usually have trouble acting in a way that builds trust with a man and also makes that man feel special.

      For a logical man, it doesn't matter whether the promiscuity caused this or women that are bad in relationships tend to be more promiscuous. The indicator still indicates the same thing. I know a lot of people and have been alive for a while. I've never known a promiscuous woman that was a good partner to a man.

      I could go on in regards to the specifics of how promiscuous women treated me, but I'll stop here.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Will a high count stop me from engaging a woman? No. Will it stop me from commitment? Absolutely.

        Who cares? The question is 'does a woman's promiscuity affect her ability to pair bond'?

        The ones on the higher end of the count spectrum had major issues with emotional connections.

        Are the emotional connections from having a higher n itself? Couldn't it be possible that the higher n is a result of having issues with emotional connections?

        It's real no matter how much you want it to be untrue.

        It doesn't bother me personally at all. The topic of n-count has literally never come up in any of my relationships.

        [–]givecake 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        This is true. I've felt that sickness in my stomach before, when I realised a truth like this. It seems clear that men want women who will give everything to them, and that's something you can only ever give 1 person - then it's gone.

        [–]mwait 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Most men would be absolutely thrilled to find a woman who had only been with one previous sexual partner.

        [–]md8716 12 points13 points  (6 children)

        There's a big difference between insecurity and doing your due diligence. The massive liability and man takes on by getting married to a woman demands that the man undergo the due diligence of making sure his partner is the best one he can possibly find.

        Tell me, would you get married to a man who was a recovering crack addict? Or had a history of violent domestic assault and was counseled/rehabilitated?

        Even if it is all in their head, being alpha widowed is still a thing. No man wants to have to keep titanium frame 24/7/365 having to out-alpha the 100 other guys she slept with, (while also having the burden of being a provider) so that she doesn't lose attraction and start wandering. I know I sure as hell wouldn't expend such a monumental effort on damaged goods.

        Furthermore, as a man you want to be with someone that boosts your reputation, not hurts it because you got married to a girl a bunch of your peers already slept with, making you look like a desperate beta chump who couldn't do any better than your buddies' plate. This is especially a problem with meeting women at work -- I have seen this happen twice, and it's really sad to watch.

        High n-count is a red flag, like a lack of maturity, family issues, debt issues, and so forth. Sure, if a woman otherwise is 9 or 10 and has an amazing personality, it might be worth the risk. But the honest fact is that most women are not worth the risk, and men have to settle for a high n-count girl because they can't really do any better.

        [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Very good points.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

        making sure his partner is the best one he can possibly find.

        People want the best partner they can possibly find. Don't make it out to be a man's honorable quest. Marriage is a financial risk for everyone. Women lose years of career progression in favor of being SAHM's.

        Tell me, would you get married to a man who was a recovering crack addict? Or had a history of violent domestic assault and was counseled/rehabilitated?

        Are you comparing these to a high n-count girl? If so, it's a little hyperbolic. One might reason why a girl has a high n in the first place? 10 ONS is very different to 10 actual relationships.

        as a man you want to be with someone that boosts your reputation

        This is insecurity to me.

        [–]md8716 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        People want the best partner they can possibly find. Don't make it out to be a man's honorable quest. Marriage is a financial risk for everyone. Women lose years of career progression in favor of being SAHM's.

        Don't be disingenuous. Men are typically the higher earners, typically bringing a higher net worth to the table. Yes, women lose years of career progression often by choice, but are usually made whole again upon the dissolution of a marriage in the form of alimony and child support. The financial risk is almost always much higher for the man.

        Are you comparing these to a high n-count girl? If so, it's a little hyperbolic. One might reason why a girl has a high n in the first place? 10 ONS is very different to 10 actual relationships.

        I was being hyperbolic to make a point. But here's a question sans hyperbole: Getting married is very much like starting a business -- would you risk your life savings creating a business partnership with someone who has a bad credit history? Who has aimlessly floated from job to job with nothing to show for it? Who has declared bankruptcy multiple times and rarely shows good financial judgment or business sense?

        Then why would you expect a high value man to marry someone who has never once indicated they are capable of being in a stable, lifelong monogamous relationship? Of course, guys marry high n-count girls all the time, so it's not a big deal, but you can't really call that a RP marriage. It's just a normal everyday blue pill marriage, complete with standard blue pill dead bedrooms, nagging, divorce rates, and problems.

        This is insecurity to me.

        Call it what you want. Humans are social creatures, and their reputation, especially among those they know personally, is a thing that matters. Even if they claim to subscribe to some modern millennial narrative that claims otherwise.

        [–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        10 ONS is very different to 10 actual relationships.

        In my opinion it's not. The serial monogamist are sometimes even worse then the CC riders. Shows that they make really poor choices and then continue to make them. I've also noticed with serial monogamist they have an enormous fear of being alone and use the next relationship to try to transform and reinvent themselves instead of finding their own personality outside of a man.

        I've dated a few women in their mid twenties who've told me they've never had a relationship longer then 3 months. That's a red flag.

        Are you comparing these to a high n-count girl?

        What's wrong with this comparison? Both show lack of morals. Both show poor judgement. Both are more common in women that didn't have strong consistent father figures. Both can effect a marriage if she falls back into the habit.

        Marriage is a financial risk for everyone

        This is not the case in 2017 and it's debatable if it was the case in the past. That's a mixed picture depending on what social class and what part of the world you were living in. In addition most women aren't choosing to be SAHM's right now anyway and as you said they are 'choosing' that path. Society is not forcing them to have children and not go back to work. It's a choice. You can't take it back and say "I should be compensated for all this time I spent away from building a possible career." The only way I buy that argument is if we were living in a very strict culture that didn't allow women to attend school or delay childbirth or didn't allow them to put kids in daycare and go back to work. Being a SAHM is and independent choice in 2017 (feminism even shames women who make this choice). Women are also graduating college in higher numbers then men and employers are very conscious of their 'optics' and how they appear so they are hiring women in significant numbers.

        insecurity to me

        I'm not dismissing this point entirely, it's a factor, but it's certainly not the primary reason quality men are weary of high N count women.

        [–]mwait 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Marriage is a financial risk for everyone. Women lose years of career progression in favor of being SAHM's.

        That is patently untrue. Marriage does not dictate that a woman must have children. And having children does not dictate that a woman must stay at home.

        Marriage presents a far greater risk to a man than to a woman. That is not something that even warrants debate.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        At what point did I say that it was a greater risk for women? I simply stated that marriage is a financial risk for everyone, and that everyone is trying to find the best partner they can get, to mitigate said risk. What is patently untrue about it?

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

        I like hearing different perspectives.

        Yeah, I think insecurity is definitely part of it.

        I haven't looked at the study myself, so I will take it with a grain of salt.

        Sure, sex can be just sex, but you can't say that bonding can't happen through it, that it's only about the non-sex stuff.

        Yes, I think being jaded can definitely be a result of a high n-count. That could be part of my problem, too.

        Well, of course it's self-inflicted. I wouldn't feel this way had I not slept with so many people. I said in my post that I do try to actively feel the connection with my partner; it just doesn't come as easily as it used to, which is disheartening.

        If you have any advice for how I can go about ameliorating this, I'd love to hear it.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Of course bonding can happen through sex, but I don't think it can happen with only sex. There has to be some form of intimacy.

        I'm a psych student. My advice for almost everything on here is a lot of therapy, meditation, and exercise. Considering that you've been diagnosed with bipolar, you're somewhat of a special case in that you have to be managing your medication. Are you seeing a therapist at all now? I think that's super important, to get to the root cause which only comes through a lot of talking about it openly & self-analysis.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Yes, I have a therapist. I just saw him yesterday, but we didn't talk about this topic. I'll bring it up next week.

        Hey, I'm also a psych student. My illness is primarily what draws me to the field, because I want to help people like myself.

        [–]i_have_a_semicolon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Learn to appreciate your SO ?

        [–]daisyskirt194 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Absolutely this.

        [–]InfiniteAscent 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Are you or have you ever been married or in an LTR? Your viewpoint is not really relevant otherwise. In fact, you would just be a case study in what is being described here.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I'm not married, currently single, and have had LTR's.

        All of that is a little besides the point as I'm not talking about my personal experience, which would also be anecdotal like OP's, I'm talking about statistical evidence. Specifically, that there is no data that shows that promiscuous women can't emotionally connect with someone.

        What does "relevant" mean to you..?

        [–]remember-breathing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes. Thank you. As a girl who luckily found a man who isn't intimidated by a high n count or the CC concept... I agree more with this viewpoint rather than OP's and feel that if one takes away the fear to scare away a potential partner, it can lead to a healthier way to perceive our own nature.

        I must admit that once I found myself devaluing sex quite a lot, but it can be reverted by knowing oneself and watching our behaviours toward sex. Of course if you have sex to search for unhealthy approval or whatever the situation is, it will lead to ugly consequences. But otherwise sex can be a fun experience with or without the attachment and have no negative consequences whatsoever (as long as the obvious protection and safe environment takes place)

        Alos, yes, imo, love does make sex better... so my n count is lower because my partner gives me that. And that love I have for him grows thanks to the healthy space to explore myself as a human he is able to give and even celebrate (as do I, I like to believe) and not the somewhat fabricated sense of sex is special because there is a lack of it.

        TL;DR: imo, love may bring a lower n count, but not (necessarily) the other way around (I personally find it kind of incomplete and maybe harmful) This is, as long as one takes responsibility of the own emotions and behaviour towards the matter.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

        Anytime! I am still a bit embarrassed to be talking so candidly about my past, but if it can help a woman on here to realize that sleeping around can be detrimental to her happiness, I am more than happy to divulge.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Thank you :) That means a lot.

          [–]sd4c 36 points37 points  (5 children)

          I have to actively try to feel the connection with my partner, where previously it came effortlessly and naturally

          Sadly, this applies to men, as well (I am a guy). In the past, I was so disappointed by women mistaking my words of sincere affection and kindness, for weakness, that I went totally red-pill, even dark triad. My N-count went through the roof, but sadly, I now find myself having to struggle to remain "in the moment" with my new and final LTR partner. Her N-count doesn't help, either. Knowing that we've both been with so many people, for no good reason, makes us both feel less special.

          The blue-pilled me couldn't secure sexual commitment from girls I liked. The red-pilled me, got more ass than a toilet seat, but spoiled me somewhat for the love of my life.

          If I could do it all over again, I'd have saved myself for that one special girl. But at the same time, I understand that there's no way I could have done that, without someone I trusted dearly, teaching me how and why to do otherwise. And I had no one to trust until recently.

          So I forgive myself, but urge anyone who will listen, NOT to do what I did. Simply stated: hookup culture and the existence of birth control and condoms made it possible for me to rationalize physically loving countless people who I didn't emotionally love. And that sucks.

          [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

          It makes me sad that men can feel this way too. Sex is supposed to be a unification of two people, but when it's done indiscriminately, it seems to only pull people apart.

          At least you have found someone who you can fully trust and feel comfortable with. That's the first step. Even if you are a bit jaded at this point, you can still try to overcome the feeling of things not being special. I think taking things more slowly could help, and dedicating at least 30 min-1 hour to lovemaking so that you can both take your time with each other. I'm kind of just grasping at straws, because I feel the same way as you and I also don't know what to do about it.

          [–]sd4c 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          The only things that have helped so far, are:

          1) Meditation (seriously). It can quiet the mind from always pulling you to the past or future.

          2) Abstinence from masturbation. Avoiding fantasies of anyone else has done wonders for my bonding to her. Not everyone can do this, but even a reduction can help

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I've been meaning to practice more. I'll definitely give it a go now that you say it helps for that issue.

          Lol, the second one definitely doesn't apply to me. I only really feel compelled to masturbate when I am in a relationship with someone. That sounds odd, but it's because I don't have much sexual desire when I'm alone. I masturbate a lot about the person I'm with when I'm with someone. I guess I'm weird!

          [–]AndyKane 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I honestly didn't know this happened to men. Like I know everyone wants to feel wanted/desired/loved/etc...but how cold men can be these days, it just doesn't make sense.

          [–]sd4c 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          It takes longer, but it's very real, and sucks because no one warns you about it. As a guy, ideally, you're not supposed to have feelings. Everyone says men and women are equals, but the fact remains that most women are repulsed by a man seen crying in public. It doesn't matter if he just received a phone call that his wife miscarried, father died, house burned down. And as soon as we reveal to a woman, that we love her dearly- most of them wonder what must be secretly wrong with us. And shortly thereafter, take advantage of our love, by pushing the envelope of what we can tolerate, in terms of time, energy, money, and fidelity, until we just can't stay, regardless of how much we still love the girl.

          We're just not supposed to have feelings. But we do. I've found that the best strategy, for men, is to reserve any proclamation of love, serious investment of time, or explicit commitment to monogamy, until the girl of our affections has been thoroughly vetted as trustworthy, stable, healthy, and passed all "surprise inspections" with flying colors. Note that I said explicit statements of commitment- I don't recommend sleeping around! Just implying you're "keeping your options open". It doesn't mean you're exercising those options (you shouldn't)- just that you're not going to openly commit to someone who hasn't proved their self worthy of your word.

          For women, I recommend not having sex until the third date, repudiating and destroying all mention, evidence, and even names of previous partners, and being forthwith and upfront as soon as possible about anything(!) that could be a potential deal breaker. Things like a huge number of partners, kid, divorce, large debt, lack of citizenship, criminal history, etc. If a solid, honest, strong man finds out you're hiding something too long, he will either show you the door, or, if you really pissed him off, he'll ease toward the door himself, while retaliating by using you as a masturbatory sleeve. It's not right but it happens every day and we all know tons of guys who've done it. There are even terms for it like use her as a "jump off chick", etc.

          [–]Wissenschaft85 9 points10 points  (9 children)

          Ironically (in a depressing way) it is not men who are afraid of commitment but many modern woman are afraid. Men who sleep around know what they are doing and are actively avoiding relationships. At the first sign of a woman getting uppity (as in wanting a deeper relationship) its time to jump ship. Pump and Dump as its called in its most accurate euphemism.

          Don't sleep around. Its not worth it. Sex is not the greatest thing in the world and being a virgin is not a bad thing at all. Theres too much shame that kids pick up in grade school over being a virgin. Theres way too much pressure in western society to lose your virginity. Nothing magical happens when you lose your virginity. The only magic is being with someone who cares about and supports you as much as you do for them.

          [–]fetchyminx 2 points3 points  (8 children)

          The thing is, if you're a virgin after the age of 20 you'd probably considered messed up or someone who has a lot of issues in western society.

          [–]Wissenschaft85 6 points7 points  (7 children)

          Frankly its best not to date people that think that way. They will dump you for foolish reasons such as getting bored with sex and wanting a new partner (this kind of person is not life time partner material). If someones going to judge you for simply being a virgin then you don't want to be with them in the first place. Yes, that does significantly narrow the dating pool but you either follow the advice or learn the hard way.

          [–]fetchyminx 3 points4 points  (6 children)

          So that's like 1 out of every 10 men... guess I'll just have to be patient

          [–]Wissenschaft85 4 points5 points  (5 children)

          Thats what I would advise. I have plenty of friends who lost their virginity as teenagers and they are either alone or have gone through divorces. Now, I'm not saying losing your virginity early dooms you to bad relationships, but I am saying that losing your virginity is no guarantee you'll make a relationship last.

          Ignore any social pressure to lose your virginity. A guy interested in starting a family and raising kids is not going to care your a virgin, if anything that will be a positive.

          [–]fetchyminx 3 points4 points  (4 children)

          Yes, you're not wrong. I'm picky and don't want to be in a relationship before I'm even good enough for myself let alone any other man and independent too. It's just fucking sex, I can masturbate or buy a fucking dildo and stick it up my ass.

          [–]Wissenschaft85 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          Thats a wiser attitude than many women today have who seem to try to replace intimate love with sex. Often that doesn't end well.

          [–]fetchyminx 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          No, I'm gonna replace it with really violent intimate sex but it will be with ONE MAN ONLY

          [–]Wissenschaft85 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          lol, well at least you know what you want.

          [–]fetchyminx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          :)

          [–]su-quita 14 points15 points  (15 children)

          Thank you! You bring up some really thought provoking points. I always feel a little ashamed that I only had 4 other partners before I got married. Granted I got married when I was 22, but still, most of my friends and my sister had waaaaay more partners...and stories. Twenty years later, my husband and I are still going strong. It seemed like around 15 years ago everyone was getting married, then a few years ago everyone was getting divorced, and today everyone is hooking up with people on match sites when it's their ex's turn to keep the kids. You're probably correct in your assertion that more partners means less ability to connect meaningfully. It's really sad for the ones who are alone. And, they're certainly not getting any younger. Old and alone. Isn't that what we all fear? And yet promiscuity seems like the way to connect. But it's really the opposite. I wonder if promiscuous men suffer as well?

          [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

          It makes me sad that having a low count is something you were ashamed of. It just goes to show how brainwashed society has become.

          I'm sure that your sister and friends are probably jealous of you, if they're divorced and aimlessly swiping while you're in a stable, loving marriage.

          You make a great point about sleeping around seeming to be the way to connect with people. It is portrayed that way. All it seems to do, though, is wear women down and make them jaded.

          [–]su-quita 8 points9 points  (3 children)

          You know, you're right about brainwashing. "Saving yourself for marriage" isn't even considered old fashioned, it's looked at as just down right ignorant. My own mother told me it was stupid to save yourself because "what if your husband ends up being terrible in bed?" Fast forward to today, my parents can't stand each other (they're still married). They are so mean to each other. I honestly don't think they know be nice. Maybe sex was once good for them, but my dad had trouble keeping jobs and my mom lost all respect for him. She was always the one to work and she reminds him that it's "her money" every single day. Sorry, sort of rambling there. In short, meaningful relationships are hard work. If there's baggage from meaningless past hookups and relationships, it makes the work that much harder.

          [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          That's unfortunate that your mom lost respect for your dad. My dad's employment has always been more unstable than my mom's, and she has always outearned him, but she doesn't see him as beneath her. She doesn't see him as less of a man. She is not a perfect wife by any means, but I definitely admire her on that.

          [–]su-quita 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yeah, if the roles were reversed and it was my dad who had worked more and earned more and it was him saying it's "his money," he'd be considered the biggest sexist a-hole on the planet. Good for your parents that they support each other. That's a wonderful example. You're really fortunate.

          [–]ragnarockette4 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I think there is just now (because of the internet) more exposure to sex content. So whereas before if you'd saved yourself till marriage to a man with a micropenis or low libido, you might never really know what you're missing. Whereas today we're bombarded with images of super smokin' sex lives and it can be hard not to compare yourself to others.

          [–]Shaela90 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          I've seen men become sort of jaded as well. It's basic human nature, when you've had plenty of experience with a wide array of people, you'll end up dissatisfied when having only one partner. They'll want a girl who has it all.

          [–]unruffledlake 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          I wonder if promiscuous men suffer as well?

          The answer to this depends on what other belief systems you blend with red pill principles. In my faith, the general metaphysical understanding is that promiscuous men are affected as much as women, but it manifests differently.

          [–]SmashedInTheMorning 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          I wonder if promiscuous men suffer as well?

          I knew a guy with a high n-count (40+ who's names he could remember, plus numerous casual hook ups) who claimed it had left him broken and unable to orgasm with a partner. He believed that being good in bed would make him ready for The One TM .

          I feel sad for him.

          [–]su-quita 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Jeez! Well that sucks! After all that "practice" and the poor guy can't even orgasm. So much for being good in bed!

          [–]SmashedInTheMorning 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          No kidding. I've never met someone with so much guilt and shame over sex. Said he'd had women yell and be angry over his inability to 'finish'. And women being kind and understanding about it only seemed to make him feel worse. I would hate to live in a world like that... sex should be a shared time of joy and pleasure imo.

          [–]HelloNeo 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          Not really.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          Sorry you're getting downvoted. You're right though, it is different for us. Sort of. Our count doesn't matter, but it's the number of years you've been spinning plates.

          I spun my plates and don't sweat my count at all, but now I want wifey material and and found a LTR that seems to be the right fit for a happy traditional family.

          Blooper girls were all the same. Yaawn. I did my time, a RPW understands RMV as well as SMV and works on the whole package. That's wifey material.

          [–]HelloNeo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Exactly. Personally, if I were a woman I'd be more worried how many relationships a dude's had or how many times he proposed. Essentially, how eager he was to give commitment. That speaks volumes more than sleeping with 20 women over the course of 15 years for example. But we all have our opinions. Some people can't stand that.

          [–]mwait 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Essentially, how eager he was to give commitment.

          Absolutely this.

          I don't understand why this is being downvoted. A man offering up commitment to every other girl without vetting them/etc is LITERALLY the flipside to the women-being-promiscuous coin.

          [–]su-quita 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          LOL! I think I'm too old for this sub!! I had to Google about half of what you posted to understand it!! Good luck with your LTR!!

          [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Great point that needs to be emphasized. My n-count is higher than I'd like but not as high as many, and I will say that none of my hookups did anything positive for me except possibly temporary ego validation (often followed by that ego being crushed). They were not sexually satisfying and certainly didn't get me any closer to "the one." I'm grateful that I am able to connect so well with my partner, but I would probably skip a few of my trysts if I could do it over. It especially hurts when after/during the hookup a guy starts talking about the girl he really loves or wants to be with.

          [–]vintagegirlgame 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          According to certain yoga philosophies (I'll ask for direct sources from the teacher who explained it to me) you carry parts of another person's energy/spirit/aura with you after you have sex with them. Important to note is that the timing of this is different if you're a man or a woman. A man is affected for 3 months while a woman is affected for 7 YEARS! To me this makes total sense. If you've slept with a lot of men in the past 7 years you're going to be plagued with a lot of different and conflicting energies that muddle up your own spiritual & sexual psyche.

          Also, (if you're not particularly spiritual) there are new scientific studies that concludes that women carry male DNA in their brains from the men they've had sexual intercourse with. SOURCE. They found that male microchimerism was present in brain cells of women who have never had sons. The findings are still not fully understood and the researchers are actually reluctant to admit the conclusion b/c it's not going to go over well with feminists.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Wow, thank you for sharing this with me. I do feel like my spiritual/sexual psyche is muddled. I'll be doing something and randomly, a thought of one of the many men I've been with will pop into my head. It's always unannounced and unexpected.

          I wish I could erase all of it. How much I would give to have as pure and unmarred of a conscience as I did before it all happened.

          [–]RedPillWonder 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          Thank you for writing this.

          I wish many, many women here would heed your words and be moved enough to protect what they have and/or take care to not increase their N count any further.

          It seems more women than I thought (from reading their own posts) often mistake or misread real commitment, and a lot of them are simply riding the "carousel" slowly.

          Even if one started sexual activity at 18 (which is the minority today, as most start sooner), and "only" had 1 or two sexual partners per year, and only in an exclusive, committed relationship, then she'll be at 12-24 partners by age 30. More if she started sooner, or some of the relationships didn't last as long.

          At 16+ sexual partners, that's correlated to over 80% divorce rates*.

          And that's where many are, N count wise. They date for a few months, have sex, but the relationship doesn't work out, so maybe a few months in between, then date again, have sex again...

          Even if some of the relationships last one, two, or three years or more, the N count is still going to be significant enough to impact pair bonding, divorce probability, middle aged depression, various addictive behaviors, etc.

          I hope they heed your words.

          *Regardless of what the cause is, the results are the same. A very high likelihood of divorce when N counts are high. Even over 5 has a dramatic impact. When you hit teens and twenties... ugh.

          That said, wherever a woman is right now, STOP! Do not add to it. Waiting until marriage from here on is best. Waiting until engagement is second best. Waiting until REAL commitment at the very least is third best and will at least offer some protections against "running up the score" so to speak from casual sex, etc.

          Work on you, be the best you you can be, try and limit any damage, improve all the other aspects immensely and learn from mistakes.

          And, like the wonderful lady who is the OP, warn others and try and steer them toward a better, happier future.

          Edit: Added a word or two so a sentence "reads" better.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          You make a great point about "slowly" riding the CC. Often enough, men just give enough emotional bait to the women they sleep with to keep them wrapped around their little finger. My best friend ended up in an "exclusive fuck buddies" situation with a man she was in love with. Did he have any feelings for her? No, of course not.

          Do you have the links to the study that statistic is in? I'd love to show it to my friend, lol. She is admittedly quite blue pill. Not in a rabid feminazi kind of way, but she's definitely plugged in. She at least has some self-awareness, and she even admitted to me yesterday that she's sick of casual sex. I'm trying to steer her in the right direction, because I love her to death and I hate to see her be hurt by these heartless plate-spinners.

          Thanks for calling me wonderful :) I try my best to be self-aware and honest with myself. I know I am far from the ideal girlfriend/wife, for a multitude of reasons, but I am at least trying to improve myself, inside and out.

          I think I am in a slightly better position than my best friend, even though my n-count is higher, because I was quite literally in an altered state of mind when I engaged in casual sex. None of it would have happened had I been stable. I am very conservative when it comes to sex, which is part of why my behavior still horrifies me. My friend, on the other hand, has no excuse. Her count is almost as high as mine. She tells me she fantasizes about dominant, masculine men, but she has "trust issues," so she goes for wimpy, passive, "nice" guys who she can dominate. I know. She needs help.

          [–]smallpeach 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          I too am bipolar and have racked up an n-count of 9-13 depending on what you consider sex. It basically went from 1-11 within a year during manic phases. Feels bad, but at least I'm stable now and can make better decisions for myself. Thanks for writing this up!

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          It makes me feel a little better that I'm not the only one.

          Hey, there's nothing you can do except learn from your mistakes and keep moving forward. That's what I'm trying to do.

          Anytime :)

          [–]Shaela90 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          Promiscuity has a detrimental effect on both women and men's abilities to pair bond. Also, more often than not, men are more prone to regret their wild ways. Why? RP tells us(and I wholeheartedly agree) that men are the true romantics, that need to feel inspired to do grand gestures for the women they love. Now, when your N-count, as a guy, is high, it's pretty difficult to find a woman who'll inspire those kinds of feelings. If she's wild and exciting, it's hard to trust her and she probably does not want to settle down. If she's sweet, quiet and demure, you'll crave the excitement and adventure. In a woman, that kind of feelings are usually inspired by her children rather than her partner. TRP also seems to be on the same page about this as well.

          These ideas I got from a discussion on the topic with a FWB I had years back, a hot, established player with a n-count way into the hundreds. He struggled a lot with regret and feeling he's unable to fall in love anymore, he had to seek out professional help. After witnessing and talking to him about the real moral struggle he endured for years (and probably still does), I can't do much else but chuckle at the wanna-be alphas who are easy to point out that a high n-count is detrimental to women but good for men.

          Also, everything is fine and dandy as long as young people have a decent support system of adults with real world knowledge and wisdom who they trust and ask advice from. But what happens to the majority of them, who don't? Yup, they have to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

          Pair-bonding impairment has its benefits as well. A low n-count girl with no support system is prone to pair-bond with a guy who just wants to pump and dump her. She needs experience to be able to tell the difference between a guy who is genuinely interested in her and a player who can easily take advantage of her naivety. Let's just say this is the way standards are built. Anyone with half of a brain can get the message and learn the cues after being pumped and dumped once. Those who don't, either don't want to or are simply the kind of people who just do everything society tells them to do. If society tells them to be 'empowered' they are. If society tells them that trad-con is the new way to go, oooops, complete make-over. That's a MUCH, MUCH more serious of a red flag than their n-counts.

          I'm not proud nor ashamed of my n-count, which is somewhat close to yours, OP. These last years, when I became established enough to want and be able to handle true commitment leading to marriage, I was always upfront with the guys I dated about my n-count early on, before getting intimate. It's actually one of my vetting strategies. Things will never work out good with someone who's got a problem with it. So I save both of us some heartbreak and move on. But honestly, other than insecure, jealous, low-tier guys, no one seemed to care more about the number, than for the person I am.

          I'm in no way advocating promiscuity, but we don't live in a perfect world and I get really sad every time I see a young girl worried that she might be 'permanently damaged goods' because of her high(er) N-count. Yes, usually young people need to hear harsh truths. But telling someone their value as a human being or a mate is damaged beyond repair is not a harsh truth, is a blatant lie to enforce some freaky standards or insecurities. The idea might be right, but the method is oh so wrong.

          OP, this last paragraph is a bit harsh and not necessarily directed at you. I just seem to write better in second person.

          Your pair bonding ability is what you make of it. Take a honest, good look at yourself and break down your dating experience to figure out what could you 'get' for your SMV and RMV. Strive to be a better person and you'll naturally gravitate towards better people. Be honest with yourself, pair bonding 'impairment' might just mean the guy you just don't feel the tingles for might just be a sleaze or a loser. Or you know deep down that you could get better guys if you would just challenge yourself to improve and become a better person. It's not your n-count's fault that you're too lazy to improve.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          That's a great point about the effect that casual sex has on men.

          You have a point. When I was a virgin, I simply went for the first man who continuously pursued me, as I was ignored for the entirety of high school. Being noticed felt good. I still don't think it's good to get pumped and dumped just for the knowledge you can glean from the experience, though. (He didn't pump and dump me; he just wasn't a good boyfriend.)

          I am concerned about my ability to pair bond because even with men who are good and who genuinely care about me, I don't seem to feel as much of a connection with them as I did in the past.

          I am honestly working on myself. The biggest thing at the moment that is keeping me from attracting better men is my weight. I met a man who wants to be with me, but wants to see progress in the way of weight loss first. He has been motivating me to go to the gym and work on myself. He makes me want to be better, and I thank him for that as often as possible.

          [–]Shaela90 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Cheers for you! We encounter all kinds of situations throughout our lives. If we learn our lessons, they're called life experiences and turn out positive in the long run, but if we don't, they become just a string of many, many mistakes that we end up repeating until we learn the lesson. It's only up to you if a situation becomes an experience which you learned from or just another mistake. The responsibility is all yours.

          Look at the positives of your situation, now that you KNOW what BPD does for you, I'm sure you'll be even more diligent about keeping it under control. Same with the weight, you now know it keeps you from attracting higher quality men, who you want to date, so you'll be even more motivated in your weight loss journey. I think any high quality, smart, insightful man will appreciate the insight you have on yourself and the drive to improve.

          Also, regarding you worrying about your ability to pair-bond, try to relax. Good relationships are great to be lived at any age, however, as we become adults and life begins to add up on our plates, they just never feel the same they did when we were young. I dearly remember my first relationship, it was good and a nice friendship came out of it. I am now with a man I love to death, who is a much better match for me than my first bf. Do I still feel inspired to draw hearts on the back of my notebooks and daydream about my man? More often than not, I don't. Not because I cannot pair-bond anymore, but because I am an adult, I have a lot more responsibilities, might even lose my job if I'm caught daydreaming and adult relationships are much more about the things we do together, like working to build a future for ourselves. Adult life and relationships are not really romantic, but are a whole different kind of beautiful.

          [–]givecake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          This is reddit so religious things are not very popular, but short of anyone offering a better alternative, may I suggest that you talk to God about this? People have been healed of all types of things, and I believe this type of thing is not beyond God's healing either. Down-vote away..

          [–]lord-denning 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          More women need to hear this...keep spreading the word and keep it up. As for your own pair bonding abilities, yes statistically you are now less likely to pair bond the way a low n-count girl would, but those stats include the vast majority of women who have no idea what is going on and why they are so unhappy despite doing what everyone is doing...having the self knowledge to understand how your own female psyche works is one step towards ensuring you do not become a statistic.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          My last ex gf stated bluntly "I expect our relationship to end because mine never tend to last". That was pretty autistic of her to say, but I suppose true for her. It instantly cast a huge shadow over our relationship. How could I invest in this woman in anyway when she was basically telling me that something bad was going to happen in the foreseeable future and it would be for nothing except the temporary fun we had?

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          That's so true about the lowering of standards. Yes, women are expected to give it up pretty quickly. Guys will only consider waiting if you are a virgin. I think everyone needs to adjust their expectations for the benefit of society.

          Thanks to being manic, I had almost zero emotional connection with the men I slept with, which I'm somewhat grateful for. I just completely lacked the ability to feel and process emotions. I was raped during that period of time, and it didn't even register with me.

          I know for most women, though, it is very hard to not catch feelings for someone after you're involved with them in such an intimate way. The first man I slept with after my ex boyfriend (n-count #1), I felt the urge to say "I love you" to him after we had sex, since I still associated sex with love.

          Have I felt that urge since then? No, it's gone now. It makes me sick to my stomach.

          [–]tuyguy 4 points5 points  (10 children)

          I'm currently dating a woman who is 30 with a count of 2. Yes, I believe her. It shows in her personality and in her technique. Also she is very connected to me even though we've only slept together a handful of times. Other girls at this stage have been completely nonchalant.

          She's 3 years older than me and I am just entering my peak years and I am just beginning to excel in work and in sex. So my first reaction is not to commit to any woman. Also given her age she is probably looking to lock me down ASAP. However, given her history I am seriously considering entering into a serious relationship with her, because I know she will be a great long term investment. She also owns a house outright. Which is unimaginably rare for young people in my city.

          [–]Ihatemost 4 points5 points  (9 children)

          How does it show in her personality and technique?

          For example I have an n count of 1 but I'm not afraid of my sexuality at all so I was adventurous with my partner and I'm not really shy with men (although I don't openly expose my sexuality, I think it should be kept private). Since I'm so comfortable in myself does it mean men would think I'm more experienced?

          [–]tuyguy 1 point2 points  (8 children)

          I don't know if there's universal features that would apply to most people. Her personality is private and reserved, and she needs a bit of guidance in bed.

          [–]plutosheen 3 points4 points  (7 children)

          It's easy for a smart person to act dumb...

          [–]tuyguy 2 points3 points  (6 children)

          It is, so I'm not jumping to conclusions. So far I think she's being honest though.

          [–]SabirahNova 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          I accidentally ended up skipping the cc because when I tried to lose my virginity to a stranger it hurt too much, I later discovered that I have vagisnismus which I was able to work through with the support of my long term boyfriend who is (and will be) the only person who I've had sex with. It's scary to think what it would be like if I thought about anyone else but him during those intimate moments or struggled to feel a connection. A shame the way relationships have ended up.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I'm sorry. My heart truly reaches out to you. Please PM me if you want to talk.

          [–]Heldenhaft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I 100% agree and am struggling with this right now. I would also like to add not just having one night stands/ hook ups but also giving or sharing very devoted sex/ intimacy with someone that is not committed to you ( whether you're in love with him, and he doesn't feel the same or a fuck buddies situation- I've been in both on two separate occasions) also has the same effect.

          Sharing that deeply emotional sex, with someone that you struggle get a commitment from, makes you unable to openly be so warm and uninhibited or enthusiastic due to the past experience. And it also kind of numbs you, and in my experience it wasn't due to not being turned on. i found this person incredibly attractive physically, intellectually and he was charming and lovely.

          Kissing doesn't even feel that great. It feel like acting.

          So sex has lost its former magic. I have a high sex drive but i need that security of commitment, real trust and safety for it to really come out. But now I feel sexually dead

          [–]i_have_a_semicolon 1 point2 points  (7 children)

          Yeah , I'm similar to you. With the BP and hypersexuality and n count. I think I got lucky because I've pair bonded excellently... Twice...since then. I got off the CC at 17, maybe that has something to do with it?

          I would never advise any woman to ride the CC. It isn't something I regret as I learn from it but if I had to do this over id skip that.

          I hope one day you can pair bond, I think it takes a special connection.

          [–]plutosheen 1 point2 points  (6 children)

          You got off at 17 with an n count of 20? Hoemaigod..

          [–]i_have_a_semicolon 1 point2 points  (5 children)

          No, my n count was less than twenty but above ten

          [–]plutosheen 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          You started before the age of consent?

          [–]i_have_a_semicolon 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          The average age women lose their virginity is 16 right ?

          [–]plutosheen 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Well I guess if both parties were 16 and under it wouldn't be considered rape.

          [–]i_have_a_semicolon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          That wasn't the case but pretty sure age of consent is 16 in NY?

          In New York State, a person who is under age16 but older than 13 years old can consent to sex with a person who is no more than 4 years older

          One instance was probably "rape" but I don't really care. I made dumb decisions and learned a lot since then

          [–]plutosheen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Interesting information..

          [–]Kiddingyoself 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks for introducing me to Lauren Southern. I had never seen, or heard of, her before, and am impressed to hear such wisdom out of someone so young.

          I just came across this on Voat, and it reminded me of your post here.

          [–]Ruinedgirl22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I needed to see this.