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DISCUSSIONRecently found out that men don't really care about a woman's accomplishments or careers for attraction, mind is blown. (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by letgoor

Anyone else on the same boat?

After reading so many RPW resources about attraction, such as (but not limited to) :

The Analogy Between Confidence and Beauty,

What Men Think About Your Intelligence

Men Don't Care About Your Accomplishments

Misconceptions about Attraction

I really internalized that men really, really couldn't care less about what career I am in or whether or not I have a PhD. I was completely projecting when I thought my education and accomplishments would make me attractive to the opposite sex. And that makes SO. MUCH. SENSE.

In fact, the author of these articles mentions that for men, dating a woman with a better education/career than him is akin to a woman dating a man who is much, much better looking than him, so much so that he steals her spotlight in the beauty department.

While most women would want to date someone who is attractive, they wouldn't want to date someone who puts much more attention and value to their own beauty than any woman, that would be a huge turn off. Likewise, while most high-caliber men would like to date someone who is at least educated and/or has a career, they wouldn't want to date someone who is much more powerful than him, as that would render his role as the provider useless.

I think of it this way. I wouldn't want to date someone like Harry Styles, teenage heartthrob and band member. Sure, he's powerful, and very good looking, but his beauty is overpowering to the point where it would steal my spotlight in the relationship.

I am also very turned off by men who do things like post "artsy" pictures of themselves on social media, wear tight-fitting pants, preoccupy themselves too much about their outfit choices, and so on. As long as they put some minimum effort into their appearance, and aren't complete slobs, that is good enough for me, and after a point, their efforts actually work against them.

Likewise, men would like women who are decently intelligent and have something going for themselves, but they wouldn't necessarily be turned-on by a CEO or doctor, who most likely will work long hours, be constantly under pressure, and have little-to-no time for a proper relationship.

I don't want to date a feminized version of a man, I want to date a man. Likewise, men don't want to date a high-strung masculine version of a woman, they want to date a woman.


[–]Kara__El1 Star 87 points88 points  (23 children)

I think these articles employ a lot of generalizations. Your own points about not going too far in the direction of career-mindedness are valid, but I often read the claim that men don't care about education or career at all and I call shenanigans. An educated man wants an educated woman, whether that's traditionally, through higher education, or self-taught.

Most men would prefer a woman who can manage her money and that really only comes from a woman who has proven an ability to financially provide for herself, which generally comes from a woman with some career ambition. Otherwise, he gets the woman who can't comprehend that there's no room in the budget for a new designer purse, because what's a budget?

You're right, that people take things too far, but that goes in both directions. When a woman posts here that she's 28, lives with her parents, works part time and wants to find a high quality man, I roll my eyes just as hard as I do at the blue-haired, tatted-up, unknown n-count, feminist.

[–]Ratcheta 32 points33 points  (19 children)

I support your viewpoint. My last few LTRs involved “lazy” girls with little ambition, a sense of life direction, or support of my interests. I’m grateful for my current LTR for having the intelligence to hold deep conversation, life goals and the ability to be independent, but choosing to surrender to me.

By that I mean she is no slave and can easily go her own way, but she likes my direction and makes a good follower.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 16 points17 points  (18 children)

By that I mean she is no slave and can easily go her own way, but she likes my direction and makes a good follower.

Balance is key. I have a master's degree, but I also work as a librarian, a traditionally feminine field that allows me to dress up for work and also accommodates a pretty good family life, while still providing enough income to justify the required education. I work two evenings this week and it's so rare that my husband was disappointed and confused as to why. I have extensive leave and great benefits, so when we have kids, I'll be available for the doctor's visits and field trips.

If I had worked my way up, without a degree, into an upper management position, requiring nights and weekends and 70 hours a week, it would be a deficit, not a perk, in the same way that being a surgeon wouldn't necessarily be a strong selling point.

[–]aussiedollface2 17 points18 points  (17 children)

There’s a few negative comments about female doctors on this post. I’m a physician which allows me to only work part time which means I can take care of the house and my husband too! Healthcare does have the added benefit of the “caring” and “empathy” factor that men seem to like, in my experience at least. I feel that men also like nurses for similar reasons. My husband likes that I cook nutritious meals and know how to handle paediatric emergencies etc because he knows nothing about these fields (he’s corporate) and he says they will be of great value to our family. Of course there are some female doctors who take themselves and their careers too seriously, but you can find women like that anywhere in a range of professions.xo

[–]Kara__El1 Star 5 points6 points  (16 children)

I did say "surgeon", because typically that specific title involves a lot of on call and late nights and unpredictability. My female physicians have always been very particular with their schedules, actually. My urologist only works one day a week and my OBGYN only takes appointments in the morning.

[–]aussiedollface2 3 points4 points  (15 children)

Yes I agree that generally surgical fields are less flexible! I guess it’s all about priorities, and some ladies just prioritise family life less than their career, which can make a traditional dynamic of a marriage more difficult.

Ps. My mum is a librarian with a masters degree too! :)

[–]Kara__El1 Star 10 points11 points  (13 children)

Sometimes this sub seems to slip into villainizing women with careers at all. I completely agree that it can be done with the right priorities. After all, I know plenty of SAHM's who ignore the kids and Netflix all day. It's all about the person.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (12 children)

Sometimes this sub seems to slip into villainizing women with careers at all.

The problem is that mainstream society teaches women that having a career is this huge positive, valuable thing that is worth the time, sweat, tears, and inconvenience of having. And a career is a great thing, in and of itself. But it doesn't mean a pile of beans to men.

And this doesn't make any sense to the women. "But look, I put in all these years of school and worked hard and - what, you think it doesn't matter?" they cry. "It's not valuable to you? Well to hell with you! I'll find a man who DOES value it!"

And then they're 35 eating for one plus six cats, wondering where all the good men have gone (at best) or dying their hair ten shades while getting pierced and tatted and protesting in feminist marches and ballooning to 400lbs.

RP doesn't villanize women with careers. It simply criticizes women who think a career adds SMV (it doesn't), and in many cases a career reduces RMV because they aren't as flexible and have less time to be a good mother/spouse.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 5 points6 points  (10 children)

But it doesn't mean a pile of beans to men.

I'm aware of this generalization and I still disagree. My husband thinks SAHM's are lazy moochers, once the kids are in school, and wouldn't have respected any woman who didn't do something she cared about, in a professional capacity. A degree likely would have been preferred for socioeconomic class reasons and the job itself wouldn't have mattered so much, but he needed ambition. It clearly means at least "a pile of beans" to some men. Generalizations in either direction are just that, generalizations.

RP doesn't villanize women with careers.

Sometimes, people on this sub do, which is exactly what I was referencing, not RP theory as a whole.

It simply criticizes women who think a career adds SMV (it doesn't), and in many cases a career reduces RMV because they aren't as flexible and have less time to be a good mother/spouse.

I agree and understand this and made no arguments against it.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 4 points5 points  (9 children)

Sometimes, people on this sub do,

Sometimes, people do ANYTHING. We don't, can't, speak to every possibility, when talking about RP theory. We can only talk about generalities.

Generally, men don't care if a woman has a career. Some like it, some hate it, most are indifferent. As most RP relationships are ones where the man is older and/or better established, they generally don't need their woman to work... and often don't want her to, so she can do more valuable things with her time.

[–]letgoor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Yes. I think this is correct. It's great to have a career and to be intelligent (I consider myself very well-educated and pride myself in this) but it's another thing to think that men as a whole find it hot or would pick me over other women based on this characteristic alone.

There's an author who co- wrote a very popular dating book with a guy (who is actually responsible for the book's basic premise, she just gives her perspective as a woman here and there). The book itself is very good, but she cries a lot about not finding a good man or how they all treat her badly. Yet the only thing she can talk about is her VERY ~successful~ career as a TV-show writer and how she's so cool and independent. When the book was written, she was in her mid-30's and still hadn't locked down a long term relationship.

She later went on to write ANOTHER book (by herself) where she talked about being single as a 40-something. This woman is now in her mid-50's and STILL ALONE. I looked her up out of curiosity and all she can talk about is how cool she is for having written for a popular TV show and having two books, and how she feels this should give her some kind of credit for men to want to be in a relationship with her. She looks so old and worn. She's way past her prime.

I feel SO bad for her. She probably thought that having a successful career would make up for everything else. This woman clearly yearns for a relationship and she will never get it, not this late.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My wife's female boss is a world-class surgeon... who has no kids, little time for family, always travels, no relationship skills or husband (just bad taste in men), and is likely going to die rich and alone. But it makes her happy, so...

[–]CalvinRichland 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Some good points. Also men are not static, we change too. At 18-25 I probably made choices 100% on looks. 25+ i started considering other things a lot more.

I turned down lots of great looking girls that had nothing else to offer. Most importantly though the sweetness, lack of feminism, fun and interesting became my primary filters. You will notice though at no point did career accomplishments and degrees matter to me. I wanted someone that had shown an ability to support themselves because i don't want to be daddy, but that's it.

There are always going to be better looking women especially as you age. It takes a lot of mental effort for men to filter intelligently and not just for looks but the more mature they are the more they can consider the other qualities. It just turns out those qualitues don't include your accomplihment list like it would for men to compare themselves to eachother.

Having said all that, NOTHING will make up for being fat.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 5 points6 points  (0 children)

NOTHING will make up for being fat.

Can we get a flashing banner for the subreddit on this point? I don't get how this isn't painfully obvious to more people as the #1 cause of issues.

Men: Lift.

Women: Lose the weight.

[–]star_angela[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True! In the sameway for me i guess NOTHING will make up if the guy isn't ripped and Tall.

[–]xelaandra23 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Men care to an extent. Educated men often want to marry educated women, if for nothing else than that their family and social circles would only approve of or be impressed by an educated woman.

A lot of men are also turned on by women who can carry an intelligent conversation. They get bored of women who can't relate or keep up.

Not to mention, if they want intelligent and successful kids, they need to marry someone who knows how to raise kids to be smart and ambitious (and pass on smart genes!).

[–]cynicalhousewife 15 points16 points  (5 children)

My anecdotal experience says otherwise. It seems like men, educated, western men at least expect women who are educated and working in a professional role. This might not be the case for blind attraction and who a man will have sex with, but it does seem to be the case when a man is looking for a woman to commit to.

[–]Bpgiissues 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Having married the professional career minded woman and then divorced her, i can say that I originally thought her career was important for me in my 20s and with blue pill conditioning. Now, with my kids where they are and me in a high power job, I can say I am not at all attracted to the career side. What I want is a nurturing woman that can provide what I am not bringing to the relationship. The career of my ex was massively in conflict with that.

[–]Hammocknapping 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It sounds to me like your issue is that your priorities changed, but your ex-wife’s did not change along with you. With strong leadership and an iron clad frame, where you’re both working towards common goals, that shouldn’t be an issue.

[–]Bpgiissues 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was a whole lot more complicated mess than that. However, as mentioned in some of the earlier replies I was attracted to her in spite of her career. Not because of it. When we first got together it didn't get in the way. When we had kids (which at the time was something she was pushing for more than me) it massively got in the way.

You are correct that had I maintained more frame the outcome would likely have been different. That still would not have changed the fact that the career focus she has is not ultimately a good choice for me. I am fortunate enough to be able to provide well. What I want is a woman that complements my skills not one that excels in similar areas and by extension is weak in the same ones I am weak in.

[–]leilavanora 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That’s interesting. It hasn’t been mine. I live in SF and there are genius successful men by the dozen and very few of them have cared what my professional role was. I’ve always dated extremely accomplished older men and they were totally content inviting me to their company holiday parties, coworkers weddings, dinners with the partners at their firm, etc. My husband now makes 10x my salary and he let me retire at 27 since I don’t exactly have any kind of career and my time would be better spent supporting him and our home.

[–]cynicalhousewife 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The fact that they are older than you is probably the catch. If you mean older as in 'sugar daddy' or 'silver fox' age. Anything else isn't really considered 'older' in any relevant context. These men understand that if they want sex with a woman far more physically attractive and much younger than them they are going to have to pay good money for it.

[–]Waterboo2 22 points23 points  (7 children)

I don’t agree that accomplishments or career don’t matter at all. They matter somewhat. Your SEC matters and is related to your education level. An attractive professional career woman is seen as more valuable/classy than an attractive woman who works in a cheap chain retail store. It tends to be that people from certain socioeconomic classes will marry other from the same, and education usually goes along with the upper classes because they can afford the tuition.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I agree with the classes point. I think it's generally easier to find acceptance in the social and family circles of someone from the same class. I don't think my husband would've married someone without a degree, as his family highly values education, even though they primarily work in cattle, something that certainly doesn't require college. I'd definitely attribute it to class markers, since they're very wealthy.

[–]Santaball 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I have to disagree. I think there are a few studies that show the more educated and career focused a woman is, the less likely she is to get married. This is probably a question that men should answer I think.

[–]Waterboo2 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Grew up UMC, almost all the women I grew up with at least have bachelor degrees before they get married. It’s just an expected thing to have higher education when you grow up in a wealthy family, whether you’re male or female. Most men who grow up wealthy don’t marry that far down in SEC. maybe you grew up middle class or lower, in that case, the rules may not apply and pursuing education beyond high school isn’t the norm for you.

[–]Lightning14 5 points6 points  (1 child)

There's a difference between being more educated and climbing the career ladder. That is the distinction that is important here. I'm a 32 year old man nearing the end of my M.S. and definitely find more educated women more attractive, but that doesn't hold true for more career driven (ie. a lawyer, aspiring CEO, etc.)

[–]Waterboo2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, good thing for you that not many women are aspiring CEOs or lawyers, lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The standards that apply to the wealthy don't apply to most people in the US. You are giving us your narrow point of view. Thanks? But you can't think that it applies it applies to the country at large. Right? You seem contemptuous of the middle class 'or lower'. Par for the course.

[–]Waterboo2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The middle and lower class are contemptuous and jealous of the upper classes. Class envy is real.

Being middle/lower class is kind of like being overweight. If you’re interacting with a thin person (higher class), you’re going to have some jealousy, whether you admit to it or not.

Marrying within your class is important.

[–]BowlOfCandy 27 points28 points  (2 children)

I Just married my dream RP woman. She never went to college.

I married her because of her incredible capability to nurture and support me, which in turn inspires me to support her in the ways I am suited to. I could care less about her career or educational accomplishments - I'm prepared to use the ones I have to serve as the provider. In fact, I expect her to stay at home and focus on raising the kids when they come. In the meantime, and soon after the kids are old enough to not need her 24/7 care, I will support her to pursue hobbies and/or part time work that inspires her (painting, photography, teaching part time (~21 hours/wk), etc.)/

Being a good wife and mother is one of the best accomplishments you can do - don't underestimate how incredibly important that will be. Personally, I think raising a family is the most important thing I will do in my own life.

[–]Lightning14 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Being a good wife and mother is one of the best accomplishments you can do - don't underestimate how incredibly important that will be.

It's such a shame how much modern feminism has devalued this.

[–]coachsims 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed

[–]md8716 28 points29 points  (7 children)

Education is more of a class marker than a hard and fast requirement. The type of guy likely to be employed at a well paying, higher status job is much more likely to marry the type of woman that easily has the time and family resources to get a degree on a traditional timeline.

But people are generally shitty at choosing marriage partners in the first place.

[–]imanewwoman 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Exactly. Most women in my socioeconomic class and upper, study in college, and when someone doesn't, it looks very suspicious as in: is she lazy ? Is she inmature and irresponsible? Does she have mental issues that don't allow her to study?. Exceptions that I have noticed: the ones who pursue non academic areas and have decent bussinesses going on, and the ones who are already super rich and get married young. In my area both men and women who are rich get married younger than other people who usually wait till 28-35.

[–]Waterboo2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep. One girl from my hometown didn’t go to college and got into bartending and nightlife, which is fine, but a lot of men who want marriage will see those type of women as flaky party girl types and steer clear of them.

[–]Waterboo2 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Agreed. People from the lower classes are the ones who think education level doesn’t matter at all. It certainly does if you’re UMC trying to marry within your class. Most have at least a bachelor’s. A grad degree or higher is a status symbol.

Showing that you can focus enough to study and pass classes also is indicative of your personality and commitment. If you’re some wild party girl who fails out of college, you likely be flaky and won’t make too great of a wife. I think studious women make better wives.

[–]harsheehorshee 4 points5 points  (2 children)

But also more entitled due to shitty schooling telling them to be

[–]Waterboo2 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Ok. Don’t date people who went to college then. No one is forcing you.

[–]Hammocknapping 34 points35 points  (0 children)

The list of items that add to your SMV is very short. In fact, there’s only one thing on it - your appearance. The list of items that add to your RMV is much longer, and can vary depending on your pool of prospective partners.

I believe I’ve derived the following benefits form my post-graduate education and career that add to my RMV. I have an extremely high value partner, so I must have a decent RMV, but it’s not like there’s a calculator, so who knows.

  • I can support our lifestyle solo if my husband was ever unemployed, injured or passed away unexpectedly

  • By working, we can both “retire” in our mid-30s

  • Ability to problem solve and trouble shoot - this saves my husband a tremendous amount of time, because I don’t have to run to him with every little problem

  • Advocacy skills: allows me to be involved in civic life and could serve me well at future PTA meetings

  • Research skills: spend a lot of time doing online research for everything from diet and exercise to pet food to the best vacation spots. I can read and distill an incredible amount of information in a short amount of time.

  • I would be able to help my children with their homework throughout high school and I know how to work the college admissions process to their advantage

  • I have a vast network of connections, so I always have someone to call on for anything at any time

  • I met my husband in our post-grad program, so higher education is a good place to meet high value men

  • The extra income allows us to farm our unpleasant jobs like cleaning and yard work if needed

  • I have a life long passion, that I share with my husband. We have endless things to talk about and it allows me to understand him better than if he was with someone who had a high school education.

Education is more than just a degree hanging on a wall. Each man will have his own preferences, and most I’ve encountered will not commit to a woman with anything less than a 4 year degree.

[–]stoutyteapot 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I find this relatively true. As a male, I don’t find positions of power or great accomplishments that appealing. I do, however find interpersonal intelligence VERY attractive; what do you bring to the table right now? What is your interaction with people? I appreciate a wit, but not a great intellectual accomplishment.

[–]thrwyfrrndomqstn 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Whats the difference between being hard to get or playing hard to get?

[–]imanewwoman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Having boundaries vs. playing games (for example creating drama for the guy to prove he really wants the woman, or disappearing nonsensically so that the guy "misses her more")

[–]GingerDoughGirl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My fiance says for just sleeping with a woman education or career has little to do with whether or not he would have sex with her. However, he would never have a relationship with a woman who didn't go to college and major in a field he respects. He also would not have seriously dated me if I didn't have a job that was interesting and something of which his family and social circle would approve. He has two degrees and a high paying white collar job with a fair amount of status in it for him. It would be embarrassing for him to have a wife who was uneducated and lacking intelligence. It would have also been seen as highly suspicious if I did not have a job that left me able to take care of myself; it would have made him suspicious that I was after him just for his money.

[–]MakeAmericaRichAgain 15 points16 points  (3 children)

A bit of insight into my vetting process, back when I was still single and meeting potential future wives:

I wanted my children to have significant advantages in life. I have always believed that children develop and grow best when they're breastfed. I don't believe in pumps, bottles, or formula as solutions which provide an advantage over breastfeeding. As a result, I always expected my future wife to be able to be home with our children for the amount of time that they were breastfeeding.

I have also always believed that children learn best at home, with a parent to play with them / read to them. Most day-cares are overcrowded and staffed by minimum-wage lackeys, who are often more interested in staring at social media than they are in watching the children. Nannies are extremely cost-prohibitive, so much so, in fact, that less than half of the population makes enough money by themselves to pay for a nanny (after taxes). I have a very high salary, and I didn't think it was reasonable to expect my future wife to earn as much money as I do. I also didn't think it was reasonable to expect my future wife to earn enough money such that, after taxes, her salary was still worth going to work for. As an example, if she were to earn a salary of 80k, but pay 35k to a nanny, then after our high tax rate (due to my salary) she would be earning somewhere between 4 and 8 dollars per hour. At that rate, I'd rather she just stay home and do work there. I don't think it's worth hiring a nanny to raise your children for an extra $200 - $300 per week.

Based on this thought process, I arrived at the conclusion that my best outcome would be for me to marry someone with less education and fewer career accomplishments. That way, she would be less incentivized to return to work quickly, and would instead potentially prefer to be a stay-at-home mom. For example, I didn't think it was reasonable to marry a physician, then expect her to stay home for literal years taking care of a child / multiple children. Odds are, if she went to that much school to be a physician, she probably wants to actually practice being a physician. She can marry someone else, they can jam their kids into daycare or hire a nanny, and we'll see how well their kids do in life. For me, that's not what I wanted for my children, so I just necessarily wrote off those kinds of women from consideration for long-term relationships.

I don't think my decisions were ever a matter of me being worried about my status as a provider. I never felt threatened or intimidated by women who had great careers or educations. Those things just didn't add any value to my life, because I already make great money. I wasn't looking for a business partner, I was looking for a parenting partner, if that makes sense.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You make a great point that it's all about goals and priorities. I had a breast reduction at 15. I probably can't breastfeed, which is fine, since I spent seven years in college to perform a job I feel makes a huge impact in the community and have been dreaming of providing my children with a Catholic school education for most of my adult life. This requires funds, funds that my own position will more than provide with plenty left over, and I consider the payoff of having well-mannered and disciplined children to be worth it, particularly since my career doesn't demand long hours. My husband left oil, because it was more important to us that he be home for birthdays and dance recitals than it was that he make bank. Maybe his new field will enable me to go half time or even quit one day, but if not, I feel like the circumstances we've created for ourselves still lend to a strong family-oriented life.

There are a lot of different life plans that will work for different people. The important part is mapping them out and making your moves accordingly. As you said, it wouldn't make much sense to go to medical school, if you plan to stay home, nor would it make sense to not educate yourself, if you'd like to home school.

[–]md8716 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I have also always believed that children learn best at home, with a parent to play with them / read to them. Most day-cares are overcrowded and staffed by minimum-wage lackeys, who are often more interested in staring at social media than they are in watching the children.

I used to think this until I actually had kids and was made aware of the fact that there's a huge difference between a daycare and preschool.

A daycare is where you stick your kid for someone to watch them. A preschool (depending on quality....you get what you pay for) has a curriculum, school projects, teachers with ECE degrees, field trips, etc.

It's like sending your kid to private school.

[–]letgoor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your perspective, it makes lots of sense and I can totally see where you are coming from. I wish (and hope) that other men take this much time and effort to think through their wants and needs for future partners!

[–]MsAfrodisiac 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think it's true that men aren't turned ON by women solely because of her career or degrees. That being said, I don't think it's a turn OFF if the women still allows the man to act like the man in the relationship. Women who are more accomplished should take care not to emasculate their husbands and let the guy shine. I technically have more education then my partner, but he earns more. That makes things easier. I also make sure that the persona I have in my professional career is separate than the persona I have with him. I am very feminine despite the fact that I am in a traditionally, male-dominated profession (law). Similarly, a sibling of mine who is a doctor has had success with a man with less education than herself. In fact, they recently got married. It's all about making sure the man in the relationship feels like a man.

[–]UnbreakableFrame 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think there can be a little confusion on this topic. Career and education are secondary relationship traits as far as men are concerned. Being sexually (keyword here) attractive is a primary relationship trait.

It's not that men don't want women who have a work ethic, earn money, and have potential for a fruitful career. We just aren't even remotely sexually attracted to that. It's a bonus, but frankly speaking, if a man has a prospect that he finds even slightly more attractive than you sexually, he's not going to give the tiniest damn that you have a PhD and she only has a BA. AMALT.

[–]Sasha_Doll 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Men do take pride in their girlfriends career. Most guys that I have talked to do subtly brag about their partner, it makes them feel better by association. It’s a nice extra to dress up the package even more.

[–]thiscommentisnotpc 9 points10 points  (0 children)

TL,DR

Men date and marry either up, across, or down.

Women date and marry either up or across.

[–]RedDespair 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Men's arousal or attraction is not based on any female accomplishments. PERIOD. Men who say otherwise are lying.

Saying that money or social standing matters in terms of attraction is wrong. It's always "appearance first" then everything else. Sure intelligence/career/personality matters, but that comes second to appearance and has nothing to do with men's biological attraction. Have you read what the guy wrote in the links before posting your opinions?

If a woman doesn't qualify in what her man's standard for appearance is, NOTHING of the rest will matter. Unless he compromises due to lack of options.

[–]letgoor[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you for your comment! I agree with you, and I think the people commenting disagreeing didn’t even bother to read the links I posted. “Appearance first” to men seems to be the equivalent of “Confidence/Power first” to women. That’s certainly the case for me, anyway.

[–]Hammocknapping 8 points9 points  (0 children)

As I noted in my comment, there’s a big difference between what sparks that initial attraction and what inspires long term commitment.

When a man first looks at you, and decides if he is attracted to you, the only thing he knows is what you look like. Looks alone sparks attraction.

When a man is deciding to commit, he will look at other factors. He ask himself if he wants to talk to you everyday, if wants you to cook him dinner every night, if he thinks you’d be a benefit or a burden to him, and, if he wants children, whether or not you’ll be a good mother. To meet these standards, you’ll need to contribute more than just looks.

Education and work experience provide you with skills that are transferable to your role as a RPW. While it won’t help you spark attraction, it’s not worthless from a RP perspective.

[–]DavidEagle68 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Working in a clinic, most residents either are on the extreme spectrum and make time for themselves, or others do nothing and study all day. There are definitely levels to this, but I would venture to say most men do care, and what to know the trajectory of your career.

[–]bonekeeper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The study of 4,764 men and 5,389 women in 33 countries and 37 cultures showed that sex differences in mate preferences are much larger than previously appreciated and stable across cultures.

Researchers found that they could predict a person’s sex with 92.2 percent accuracy if they knew his or her mate preferences.

According to the study, men favor mates who are younger and physically attractive. Women seek older mates with good financial prospects, higher status and ambition.

https://news.utexas.edu/2015/08/06/genders-differ-dramatically-in-evolved-mate-preferences

[–]VisitingfromJapan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

For a man, having a high powered career driven woman is like a woman having an psudo-celebrity instagram model boyfriend who is always obsessed with their followers, likes, wearing perfect clothing and posing in perfect pictures, updating it constantly throughout the day. Imagine going out for coffee with your boyfriend and he pauses every 10 mins to update his profile, take selfies, or comment to their fans.

At first it might seem kinda cute, but it all feels so unnecessarily annoying. Better to find someone without 20 million followers

[–]letgoor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can totally imagine this. Like I wrote, even guys who post "artsy"/model pictures of themselves occasionally on social media just turn me off so much. The first thing I do is question their sexuality, honestly. I think my thought process is: Why does he crave to be liked so much by his looks? Is that the only thing that he has that gives him confidence? There probably isn't much else about him, then.

[–]JJ33141 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For me a woman’s intellectual accomplishments only augment attractiveness if they appear in my mind to suggest that she has traits that are more valuable for a relationship, namely that she is thoughtful, empathic, capable of looking beyond her emotions, and someone who has the mental maturity to build a life with. Usually you can carry a conversation with such a person much better as well (if you are an intelligent man yourself). So it’s not the career or intellectual accomplishments that would be a source of attraction, it’s the hope that there is something behind them that is valuable for a relationship.

Unfortunately career/academic accomplishments are not a perfect surrogate measure of a woman having these personal qualities. Furthermore the qualities I mentioned above are very attractive providing a given woman is above a certain threshold level of physical attractiveness (it probably varies from man to man what that threshold has to be). Unfortunately career and academic accomplishments are also just as easily associated with arrogance, abrasiveness, a tendency to put career in front of family, and a greater tendency to have drunk the feminist Kool-aid, due to many years in University, all of which are unattractive AF. On that last point it can be especially frustrating because you are dealing with an otherwise intelligent person, so if they have certain views that are toxic good luck trying to convince them of anything, since the ego is too big. It’s better to simply ignore them, in my view, if you detect a whiff of such egotism.

There is an advantage to marrying a woman who makes good money on her own, which is that if she decides to divorce for stupid reasons down the line, you will be less likely to be gouged in divorce court. Ditto for her being able to pay off her student loans. These are not “attractive” qualities per se about a woman, however—they only make her less of a financial liability, which sadly a man has to be mindful of.

It’s truly a shame that many of the most intelligent, and consienscious women in society are less likely to have children at a level above replacement rate. Usually the demands of career + feminist indoctrination + chasing a cushy lifestyle place limits on this.

[–]psmica 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd like to put out an example here.

I'm indian-american, and my parents are both highly educated. In Indian, chinese, and other asian cultures, it's highly frowned upon to not bring an educated girl home. My dad is a mechanical engineering Ph.D, and my mother is a Computer Science Master's. Both of them work full time, and contribute a lot of money to the family. My dad brings in slightly more than my mother, and is in a higher position.

They have been married for 26 years happily, have two daughters (me and my sister), own six homes, and four cars. I think the secret to this is that my mother never brings up her work, position, etc. Her paycheck just silently gets deposited into the bank, and the money is there for us to live more than comfortably.

Also, she told me RP stuff my entire childhood and as advice for when I got my first boyfriend before I even found this sub! Femininity, being "a woman first", sweetness - I'm really grateful. A similar trend follows with me and my boyfriend - we're both in really good engineering schools, but he's getting a BBA on top of it. Same with my parents - both are accomplished, but the male is just slightly more accomplished.

My last boyfriend wasn't as smart as me. My parents hated him. But now, they love my current boyfriend (of 13 months) because he's just a little more accomplished than me.

TL;DR: I think being intelligent/smart.successful/etc doesn't really matter, as long as you're not overshadowing or "beating" your partner.

[–]lord-denning 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You have this completely correct (even the nuance). This is the basis behind the old advice from mothers to daughters for them to go to college, yes, but to ensure that they gain that “Mrs.” degree. Get educated for its own sake and to have something intellectual to offer in a relationship, but the youth/beauty that you offer during the college years is of exponentially greater value to men. The situation when mirrored is not reversed.

[–]letgoor[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I am glad I understood everything correctly. Honestly, still trying to come to terms with this. All my life I've connected my worth as a person (and woman) to my accomplishments in college/careers.

I'm glad I found this out at 23, though. I don't want to be a miserable 30-something, wondering where the time went and why I don't have a fulfilling relationship with a man yet...

[–]MrTrizzles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems the principle “men’s attraction is primarily appearance-based” has developed a little over-reach. That’s fine, and expected. Remember, most of these ideas are generalizations, never meant to apply to the entire group in the first place. We lose a little preciseness of speech, but without some simplification discussing these dynamic ideas coherently would be a challenge.

I’ll add another exception to the ‘rule’: the higher on the dominance spectrum, the more a man is affected by (and concerned with) intellectual attraction. Tricky to explain why, but it has to do with the more personal nature of a dominant vs normal interaction. And high-d men often have very high standards.

[–]tuyguy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From the image:

Playing hard to get vs being hard to get

Absolutely nailed it.

Congratulations on realising this. No matter how much society tells men they should think female CEOs are sexy, our biology will not change overnight or perhaps ever. You are now miles ahead of most women in terms of being able to attract high value men (or one man).

[–]Cellosrcool2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I know the compare/contrast list is probably very general, but why is liking the outdoors a dealbreaker?? Camping is probably my fiancé’s and my favorite activity together and I don’t just tag along for him. If I didn’t like the outdoors, that would probably make me less attractive to him.

[–]letgoor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that the image isn’t saying that liking the outdoors is a dealbreaker/unattractive, it’s just saying that it’s not inherently what is attractive. Rather, it’s the sense of adventure/ being willing to tag along and get “dirty” sometimes that is the attractive feature.

[–]TheLadyLawyer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

" While most women would want to date someone who is attractive, they wouldn't want to date someone who puts much more attention and value to their own beauty than any woman, that would be a huge turn off. Likewise, while most high-caliber men would like to date someone who is at least educated and/or has a career, they wouldn't want to date someone who is much more powerful than him, as that would render his role as the provider useless."

This has been my experience, too.

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[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do not act like your personal preferences reflect the majority of men.

[–]RedDespair 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I thought all women knew that

[–]letgoor[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I definitely didn't! I always tried to impress guys by letting them know how smart and accomplished I was. I felt like they needed to know I was a "catch" in the intelligence department...and RIGHT AWAY, as soon as possible. This only worked to alienate these guys. It wasn't that they were "intimidated" by me, it was that I was coming on way too strong and trying to compete with them, essentially acting like a man.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I felt like they needed to know I was a "catch" in the intelligence department...and RIGHT AWAY, as soon as possible.

I feel like this is where you took it too far. It's okay to be smart and hardworking and accomplished, but you let that shine as an added feature, not your primary selling point. My husband has told me more than once that he never thought he'd find a woman who could keep up with him intellectually and was pleasantly surprised. Read between the lines, though, and you'll see that that wasn't a deal breaker for him. He absolutely would've settled for less intelligent.

[–]letgoor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes absolutely, I am decently attractive and have a good personality, I just thought that my accomplishments would be "the best" part about me that men would like. So that's what I emphasized the most.

I was wrong, obviously!

[–]Kara__El1 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I, too, realized early on in dating that men sometimes found my education level more threatening than appealing, even when I wasn't heavily promoting it. I don't know if I'd have called it a detriment, because if he was that insecure, I didn't want to be with him anyway, but I had to vet for someone who at least respected my field.

[–]Kara__El1 Star 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I feel like this misconception came as the result of 90s feminist TV. Have you watched Charmed recently? Those women were career obsessed whores and men loved them.

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[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Breaking two rules.

  1. Do not declare your gender.

  2. Do not assume your personal preferences are indicitive of all, or even the majority, of men.