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RELATIONSHIPSI love him but... (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor

A common RPW post goes like this:

I’ve been with this guy for X amount of time. These are all the things that are going wrong in the relationship. He’s doing x, y and z and I want to change that. I love him very much how do I change myself so he’s better.

I commend the women who look to themselves first for the root of the problem but I cringe every time I see “I love him very much”. It’s a line that gets put into so many posts and I have a secret for you.

Love isn’t enough.

Men have two things that they require like air: respect and sex.

Don’t misunderstand, love is important and everyone wants to be loved. However, your love must be demonstrated through the lens of respect. Furthermore, respect is often necessary for us to feel attraction to a man. After all, who wants to let someone into her bed who she doesn’t respect? Who wants to care for a manchild for the rest of her life? Who here wants to lead the relationship?

Love changes over time. In the beginning, infatuation is a fire and it’s all consuming. These feelings fade as a relationship becomes comfortable. Love deepens and is a shared bond that can sustain you for life. That love requires you to think highly of the man you love. It goes beyond hormones and passion.

That love is also easily confused with habit and attachment when a relationship is on the line.

Often I see “I love him very much” along with a list of his faults. What that really means is: “I’m very comfortable in this relationship and I don’t want to start over”.

You can care deeply about someone and not respect them. If you do not respect a man the relationship isn’t sustainable. So instead of attempting to identify “love” for a man, ask yourself if you respect him. Does your gut tell you that you would follow him into a fire? Forgo your path to join him on his? Will you proudly show off your relationship to friends and family without omission? Do you think he knows where he’s going in life and will you stay by his side through thick and thin?

Love isn’t enough. There must also be respect for the relationship to survive.


[–]MidwestMrs 62 points63 points  (4 children)

I love this post! So succinct.

I left my x because I did not respect him. Met my husband and the passion comes and goes, but the respect I have for him always means that passion will return.

Respect is an anchor.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Thank you.

I had a similar situation with an ex. I still have love for him, but his indecisiveness and bending to others led to a lot of dissatisfaction. My husband is his own man and I respect that so much. The attraction and passion easily follows.

Respect is an anchor.

I like this.

[–]19_LadyScarlet_90 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm in the same boat. Respect us a must! I love the anchor line too. Wonderful analogy.

I didn't respect my ex. He was a weird, lazy, beta man child that, when I think back to our marriage, makes me go wtf. While we are civil when we speak, I have no love for him (not hatred, though) because I can't respect him.

I have the utmost respect for my husband. I'd follow him to hell & back. I'd take a bullet for him. While that attitude is definitely influenced by my deep love for him, I couldn't feel that way if I didn't respect him. Thank you for the OP. It is an excellent piece of advice, one that every woman needs to know. ♡

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    From my ex??

    Our plans always circled around: "what do you want to do?" "I'm up for anything, what do you want to do?" "I don't really care, whatever you want to do"

    We also had conversations in which I told him that I wasn't interested in making decisions after being at work all day and would be happy with whatever he decided but he'd never decide anything.

    He was also still following his father's lead on his life path. When I wanted to move out of my parents house, he didn't feel comfortable with me moving in with him, but he was also not strong enough to say that or set out a plan other than ... in the future we'll get married. I moved into my own place and then he was cranky that he ended up coming to me all the time.

    I played my own role in all of this and he's a good man. I don't want to make him sound otherwise. He has since found a wife who leads him around by the nose. I didn't want to be the woman leading him around though and his inability to follow his own goals (rather than his father's goals and purse strings) was unappealing.

    [–]theFriendly_Duck 8 points9 points  (11 children)

    How can I show a man I respect him? Merely saying so doesn't feel genuine, and I think it's a bit weird to say out of context. Any tips?

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 31 points32 points  (10 children)

    In addition to the post I linked above, This is a good one that discusses respect

    A few ways to demonstrate respect:

    • Ask his advice and take his opinion seriously.

    • Defer to his judgement without questioning him, specifically on the small stuff.

    • Praise him in front of others

    • If he says he will do something, assume he can rather than assuming he can't.

    • If he says he'll do something, don't offer help or guidance, just let him do it.

    • Don't complain about his choice in activities, hanging out with friends and whatnot. Treat him like an independent adult.

    • Don't try to change him through nagging or criticism or concern trolling (what if we did it this way instead)

    • Say: "I trust you", "I'm proud of you" and "Thank you" as the situation calls for.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    All very good points. Time for a minor nitpicking.

    Say: "I trust you", "I'm proud of you" and "Thank you" as the situation calls for.

    Saying - I trust your judgment - and statements similar to that, is even better. This way you're expressing trust in a specific type of competency of his. This is more of a compliment than general trust.

    Of course, admiration is even more powerful than trust.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Time for a minor nitpicking.

    Jerk

    I trust your judgment

    Yeah, this is better and less awkward to say too.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Jerk

    😛😛😛

    [–]1800steamer 0 points1 point  (6 children)

    I agree with most of this, but have a problem with a few: "Defer to his judgement without questioning him, specifically on the same stuff."

    I disagree with this. Questioning someone isn't disrespect. Yes, you should respect his opinion, listen to what he has to say, and take it into account. But no one is infallible to poor judgement or immune to (tactfully addressed and constructive) criticism. Once again, definitely let him make his own decisions and have his own opinions. But don't just take everything he says at face value. Think critically about it. Take what you find to be true into your own life, and discard what you don't find true. Having your own opinions and reasonable disagreements isn't disrespect. And if you have a disagreement in which involves both of you, compromise. Relationships are about give and take. Respect is a two-way street.

    "If he says he will do something, assume he can rather than assuming he can't."

    I would say assume nothing, not assume he can. Yeah, encourage him (if it's something positive), and definitely dont bring him down or tell him about your lack of expectations. But having expectations (mentally) might just disappoint you. Having no expectations saves worlds of hurt in case anything goes wrong.

    Also, what if it's something (important) that affects you/ your offspring (if it doesn't affect you or it's not important obviously fuck off and ignore it), and he keeps saying he'll do it, but either has demonstrated (objectively, not just how you feel) on multiple occasions his inability to successfully complete the task? Then, wouldn't it be wise to say something (tactfully, of course)? What if you know you can do it (because you've done it before, not because you feel you can do it)? Shouldn't you just haul ass and get it done yourself, then? (Again, only if it significantly affects you/your offspring. It doesn't fuck right off.)

    "If he says he'll do something, don't offer help or guidance, just let him do it."

    If he says he doesn't want help, I'll back off, but there's nothing wrong with asking him: "hey, do you need help? I would love to help you with x".

    Also, there's nothing wrong with offering your partner advice if you have valuable knowledge to give him. He's absolutely allowed to reject your advice if he disagrees with it and reject my help if he doesn't want it, and at that point I'll back right off.

    I love helping people. I feel helping people is very feminine, and just in my nature. Especially my partner. I don't want a partner that doesn't appreciate my help / advice.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    A lot of "what if" and speculation...

    On the small stuff and assuming he's consistent by virtue of demonstrated behavior, it's a safe bet he's got it covered.

    Big life-decisions...it's fine to ask questions, to offer and insert opinion(s), offer assistance as needed or as requested - e.g., major purchases, changing professions, surgery/health issues, or moving to a different country, etc.

    On the small stuff though...if men need a minor or major assist they'll let you know.

    It varies from man to man, but that's the general gist.

    cc - u/girlwithabike

    Also - "Love isn’t enough. There must also be respect for the relationship to survive."

    Spot on and great advice. I submit this applies to men as well.

    [–]1800steamer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    To quote your original post, "would you follow your husband into a fire?" How is that not turning off your brain and blindly following?

    I'm not talking about just feelings. Feelings alone aren't a good enough reason to question or doubt him, and I'm not even saying to doubt him at all! I'm talking about if there's objectively a significant issue, there's no need to just STFU and deal quietly just because "what he says always goes". If you notice an issue, discuss it with him, calmly, after listening to and considering everything he said and giving it serious thought. I don't understand how pointing out when there is an issue is watering down respect.

    I am NOT saying to sweat or argue about small stuff that doesn't really matter. And I don't think you should give him advice if you don't know what you're talking about, or offer help if you don't know what you're doing, only if you could actually be of valuable assistance.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    This is what I said below in another comment about the fire thing:

    I wrote them as a way to check in with your feelings about a man, rather than how you should actually behave. I probably could have been more clear about that but I was aiming to not over-explain.

    If my husband asked me to follow him into a fire, I'd need a pretty compelling reason, because I'm not an idiot and I recognize the inherent risks. I'm fully in favor of women understanding their emotions & drives and then mitigating them with their brains.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    OK - major purchases, changing professions, surgery/health issues, or moving to a different country, etc....are ALL non-emergency issues. Plenty of time to ask questions, discuss, identify issues, offer valuable advice and assistance, etc.. This is a non-issue.

    "would you follow your husband into a fire?" - I'm thinking an emergency and that's different. For me - it's a dangerous situation and I will not need, require, nor expect my lady's assistance. I do danger on my own if that's what the situation calls for or requires action.

    Conversely - in an actual fire or danger scenario, I've made my decision and there will be no discussion. It would be wise for my SO to follow without question.

    Also - I suspect OP did not mean "going into the fire" in the literal sense. A bit dramatic, but I don't assume her example as "literal."

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Everything I cited comes from my reading and my experience. Before answering, I asked my husband what I do that makes him feel respected. You've made all of these points about the woman's feelings and why that allows you to water down any signs of respect. I see them as tactics to employ towards a better relationship. It seemed so obvious to me that a woman shouldn't turn off her brain and turn into a doormat that it went without saying.

    Everyone has to implement the RP tools in whatever way she sees fit and in ways that work for her and her relationship. For me, my relationship was not as good when I was doing things in the manner you describe. YMMV.

    [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Your strategy makes you sound like a sanctimonious harpy of a wife - assuming you are even married.

    I feel very respected and appreciated by my wife, and the behaviors she describes are why I feel that way.

    If you want your "help" to carry any weight as useful advice, you should see if your husband will publicly state that he feels respected by you. If you can't, then you're probably not being very helpful.

    [–]MentORPHEUSTRP Endorsed 15 points16 points  (1 child)

    Love changes over time. In the beginning, infatuation is a fire and it’s all consuming. These feelings fade as a relationship becomes comfortable. Love deepens and is a shared bond that can sustain you for life.

    A lot of people don't know how to transition beyond passionate love, and when it runs out, break up and start another 2-8 month relationship.

    Companionate love is what sustains 50+ year marriages.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Companionate love doesn't get enough praise and I think it's because the word sounds like there is no passion. Anyone used to hook up culture gets stuck in a cycle of infatuation excitement and let down. Growing into anything with the word "companion" sounds dull.

    In my reality, I'm a junkie and he's my methadone. It's not the distracting high of infatuation but he sustains me, keeps me even and I can't imagine life without him.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    In addition to everything you wrote:

    When a woman uses "I love him dearly" as the barometer for it being a healthy relationship, she's projecting what's most important to her onto him. She assumes that because being loved is most important to her, that it's most important to him as well.

    It isn't. Men love women, women respect men

    How many women just wish their husbands were more assertive, more dominant, more decisive and why won't he ever slap my ass and bite my nipples god dammit!

    You know why? Because he too is projecting. Because respect is paramount to him (plus feminist indoctrination to respect women), he assumes that being utmost respectful is the way to go. Problem is, respect dries her up. Likewise, what your man needs most is respect, admiration and sex as is explained at length in the two wonderful posts linked to in the OP.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    she's projecting what's most important to her onto him.

    I do not believe that it's specifically projecting unless she believes that love is the only requirement. It's the blend of love and respect that makes for a relationship but these are two separate feelings. I don't think women are lying to themselves or others when they say "I love him dearly", it's just that, as I said, love isn't enough.

    I've mentioned my ex a few times. I still love him, I don't respect him and therefore there was insufficient attraction and compatibility for it to work long term. But that doesn't mean that the love I feel isn't genuine. I'd do as much for him as I'd do for my brother or my best friend. On the flip side, I respect my boss. He's a natural leader, confident, protective ... a bundle of ideal masculine qualities. I don't love him and I'm not (thank god!!) attracted to him.

    The feelings can be separate and still be true. It's only projection when we think that our needs are the other persons needs. When women say "I love him dearly" that's not projection, that's solipsism. We feel something for him thus a relationship should be doable. Rather than projection, I think his feelings are often out of the thought process entirely.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I don't think women are lying to themselves or others when they say "I love him dearly", it's just that, as I said, love isn't enough.

    Good point. Additionally, women don't love the same way that men love.

    In my comment above, I didn't intend to say that love and respect are exclusionary of each other. Rather, more of a primary and secondary thing. Sorry for not being clear on that.

    I've mentioned my ex a few times. I still love him, I don't respect him and therefore there was insufficient attraction and compatibility for it to work long term. But that doesn't mean that the love I feel isn't genuine. I'd do as much for him as I'd do for my brother or my best friend. On the flip side, I respect my boss. He's a natural leader, confident, protective ... a bundle of ideal masculine qualities. I don't love him and I'm not (thank god!!) attracted to him.

    This touches on the fact that there are many types and degrees of love and respect, but that's a whole other can of worms....

    Rather than projection, I think his feelings are often out of the thought process entirely.

    Consciously, yes. But subconsciously there might be some degree of projection. I'd have to think about it further.

    [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 5 points6 points  (4 children)

    I like to think of love as a verb and not a noun. It’s something that you must actively do, not something that you have or don’t. Love is earned and maintained, when both partners are committed to each other’s well-being and happiness and demonstrate that consistently through their actions. Love is gone when the actions stop.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    Love is gone when the actions stop.

    I agree with this.

    For my own part, it is that love compels me to action. I love him and so I want to demonstrate that in a way he will feel it. So even though I hate getting up and making breakfast at 6am, I love him and it is much more evidenced by that 6am wake up call than simply mouthing the words.

    Though yesterday I definitely told /u/guywithgirlwithabike that I hated him while serving him breakfast....I'm really not a morning person :-P

    [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I didn't hear you over the sound of the bacon cooking, so it didn't count.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Lol!

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I like to think of love as a verb and not a noun. It’s something that you must actively do, not something that you have or don’t.

    Absolutely!

    However, there is a bit of a difference between men and women in this regard. Men need your love (and any other emotion) to be expressed primary in action. The weight that words carry, pale in comparison to the weight of actions. Women OTOH, need verbal expressions of love (and other emotions). Either way, it needs to be a verb, as in active.

    Love as a noun is almost meaningless.

    [–]subgirl182 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I also think that if you really love someone, you will love and accept him as he is, without trying to change him. If you want your guy to be different, how can you really love him? How would you feel if a guy said he loves you but wishes you were different? It makes the love part stop ringing true!

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    So true!! This was my mantra through the early days with my husband. "Be him how he is or leave, don't expect change".

    [–]NubianIbex 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    Great post for an interesting and nuanced observation.

    Often I see “I love him very much” along with a list of his faults. What that really means is: “I’m very comfortable in this relationship and I don’t want to start over”.

    I think TRP has a post regarding how women love that aligns with your post. Something like -- when a woman says she loves you, she means she loves what you and your relationship provide for her, and that is far from stable and far from unconditional.

    Does your gut tell you that you would follow him into a fire? Forgo your path to join him on his? Will you proudly show off your relationship to friends and family without omission? Do you think he knows where he’s going in life and will you stay by his side through thick and thin?

    I think some of these requirements are too harsh though. Captain/FM dynamics is perhaps not one of equal say, but it is a partnership. We don't have to blindly trust him to guide us into fire. We also encourage women to vet men who have potential to become great Captains. By the time we meet him or even by the time we marry him, he might not yet be the man he strives to become. I think it's our duty to support him in becoming a man that will forge a path for the both of you to walk on.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I think some of these requirements are too harsh though.

    I wrote them as a way to check in with your feelings about a man, rather than how you should actually behave. I probably could have been more clear about that but I was aiming to not over-explain.

    If my husband asked me to follow him into a fire, I'd need a pretty compelling reason, because I'm not an idiot and I recognize the inherent risks. I'm fully in favor of women understanding their emotions & drives and then mitigating them with their brains.

    And I do agree that it's best to chose a man with potential and grow with him. This is what I've personally done in my life and I think that a man values a woman more who takes a risk on him based on potential. It's more likely to be a partnership and closer to a marriage of equals (for lack of a better phrase).

    I still think that you can ask yourself on a gut level if you feel like you would follow him where ever he goes. If your gut says "yes, I'm pretty sure I would because I trust his judgement" that tells you your level of respect. That doesn't mean that you have to blindly follow if the hypothetical turned into reality. Again, back to my personal experience: at a year into the relationship, we moved for him to finish school. I struggled with that and questioned it because I trusted him but he hadn't proven himself fully. At 7 years into the relationship, he took an interview on the other side of the country. At that point, I knew that if he decided that it was a job worth taking, I'd have followed no questions.

    [–]19_LadyScarlet_90 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I love that last sentence. I'm currently watching my husband forge the path for us. Watching him grow over the last 3 years, & seeing where he is now, makes me so incredibly proud of him. ♡ Yes, we wives definitely need to support them as they grow. If we're the best First Mate we can be, our Captain will be the best he can be :)

    [–]TheLadyLawyer 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    Amen!

    It also important to remember that he is the Captain, you are the first mate.

    A first mate should never try to control or otherwise change the Captain...

    If you're unhappy, first, take a look at yourself to see if there is anything you can do to fix it...

    If you're still unhappy and/or don't have respect for your Captain, get off his ship.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    get off his ship.

    Generally I dislike the Captain thing but I really want to make this an RPW saying now.

    OP: "My SO cheated on me again"

    RPW: "It's time to get off the ship!"

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Generally I dislike the Captain thing but I really want to make this an RPW saying now.

    I also dislike the overuse of the term captain. Especially since it's generally used by those who really don't have the captain/first mate dynamic at all! OTOH, those who do (seem to) have this dynamic aren't generally braggadocious about it.

    Talking about things we don't like - I dislike the knee jerk advice to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. If you're just starting to date - sure, jump ship. But if you're married and have children, you gotta take this decision very seriously. Sometimes it's necessary to jump ship anyway, but most of the time it can be worked out. The divorce rate doesn't have to be 50+%

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Captain/FM is a decent metaphor to roughly explain what the dynamic could look like. I feel the same way that you do though that many OPs use it, basically in place of "boyfriend" often without a clear picture of what the metaphor looks like IRL.

    To a large degree that is because RP provides the frame of what a relationship can look like without filling in all the details. That is left to the individuals within the frame.

    So I'm ok with it when it's used to describe what should be and less ok with Captain as some sort of title to be bestowed. I also don't like when men come in and say "a man who does x isn't a captain". We are all people not archetypes.

    As for "getting off the ship" ... it's a difficult balance. I'm with you that unless cases are extreme RPW tactics should be attempted in a marriage first. It's much harder to figure out where the line is prior to that lifetime commitment. With that you have to discern SMV/RMV + timeline to get the likelihood a woman can do equal or better without putting fertility on the line. Since men have more time to sort out their lives, sometimes one must leave a man because he simply won't have his shit together in a time frame that works for the woman. The extended adolescence of this generation means that occurs more often than it should I think.

    [–]TheLadyLawyer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Haha! Thank you! I agree, let’s make “get off his ship” an official RPW slogan!

    [–]OkJicama 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Well said!

    [–]deastjames 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This is exactly what I needed to hear right now. Thank you for posting this! :)

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'm glad you found it helpful :-)

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    You should put this up as it's own post asking for advice. You'll get a lot more answers that way :-).

    I have a friend who ended up with the absolute wrong man for her under a similar circumstance. Her grandfather who raised her had just died and she met this guy. She was weak and he made a lot of promises that he couldn't keep.

    A man doesn't have to be the breadwinner to be the leader, it certainly helps but now that we work too, it's not a necessary requirement. That said, if you aren't married, I wouldn't give him jobs and credit cards because that just allows him to not stand on his own, which you obviously resent.

    Whether to give up or not... I think you have to decide what you want in a man and then decide if this man can fill the role. If at your core, you appreciate a masculine presence then maybe this guy is enough. My sister chose this with her baby daddy. She's the head of household, but she likes having him around and she wants her kids father in their lives.

    If you want a partner who can stand next to you and pick up the slack when you drop it, then this guy doesn't sound like he's it. Cut bait, consider men with baggage that fits your own. For instance, you'll probably have an easier time finding a divorced guy with kids than a single, never married man. While it may not be easy, if your relationship is impacting your health, then the harder, riskier path might be worth it.

    PS: You've got three years on me so I hope that is close enough in age to weigh in ;-)

    [–]daniel_knows 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I am a man, so I can fully relate. Men need respect (and sex of course) and women need to be and feel loved. These things I believe are needed like air, as you have mentioned. Great post!

    [–]MajIssuesCaptObvious 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Thank you for posting this.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You are quite welcome :-)

    [–]teaandtalk4 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Awesome! I'll stick this on my (very long and not getting shorter) reading list 😆

    [–]TaylorNotSwift7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I love this post but...

    Just kidding. I love it! Respect makes an astonishing difference. Long story short because i hate typing on a cell phone: I’ve never had respect for men, as my own default setting, just because of life. I had an intense passion with my ex but it faded and he came abusive. I stayed, just feeling like “I love him but”. It took some time to realize I didn’t respect him. I never had. I was just swept up in the intensity. I met my current boyfriend and have to stop and rub my big doe eyes at the differences in the relationship. Major key? Respect. We have been together for almost years. I have an infatuation with him still, but I know as time progresses, that will die down. As long as the respect is there, I’m staying.

    Thank you for wording the post so beautifully and articulating your thoughts so well! Cheers.

    [–]ange-nocturne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yes, well said. "He's so nice" is the other one that also makes me cringe.

    [–]toadparking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Excellent post! I left my husband not because I didn't love him; I did very much. But he was an alcoholic and I had lost all respect for him.

    I am now struggling with following the RPW philosophy because I had to manage everything for the last 23 years due to his drinking. I am in love with a TRP who I respect very much and so badly want to be his 1st mate, but I can't figure out if I am a plate or LTR to him.

    [–]Vigilante4217 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    We are discussing a lot about respecting a man here which is good, yet what do we all think is respectable in a man? Even in a young man? What should be defined as potential in a man? As far as i can see women seem to want to look up to a man that has 'got everything together'. Also i do agree that it just seems to be respect and sex that fulfills a man, or at least those are the major factors

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    what do we all think is respectable in a man?

    This could be an entirely separate discussion. I think that this post on vetting is a starting point for what is a good man.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    To be quite honest, some women DO those things: give sex and respect, as well as love, and it’s still not fixing the issue.

    I believe that’s why they come here for advice.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    It depends on what the issues are. In my experience on RPW many women think they are doing those things but aren't actually implementing those strategies well and that is why they have issues.

    If, for instance, you say you respect him but then you second guess everything he does then you aren't really respecting him.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    Well in my particular case I give my husband all the support and respect I can, but it’s not fixing the underlying issue between us.

    Husband needs to do X, but he won’t. He knows he needs to do it and appreciates my help, but he won’t take the plunge even if it’s necessary for our marriage and children.

    I would’ve left a long time ago but this is a recent behavior. I chalked his previous behavior as being a bachelor and lazy so I let it go, but we have kids in the mix.

    I fixed all the issues he had with me, he’s the only one left. This has been going on for 3 years and we’ve been together for 13 years. Neither me or him know WHY he is not fixing it.

    I am losing respect for him but I am trying to still be supportive, I suggested counseling. Nothing. Suggested compromises. Nothing.

    It’s a mental block of some kind on his part and I’m losing energy trying to help him get to the bottom of it. I’ve warned him countless times that if he doesn’t do some leeway, I will have to leave. My family, his family, our friends — everyone is trying to figure out ways to help him out of this weird funk.

    We thought it was depression but my husband swears up and down that he’s not depressed, he loves his life, loves his soulmate and kids, wouldn’t trade anything for them.

    I kept asking if it is something I need to fix myself but he says no because I already did, and there’s nothing else to fix. If it’s not depression, than the only conclusion I have is that he’s taking advantage of me. That he’s having his cake and eating it too.

    It’s breaking my heart because I don’t believe in divorce, I flat out told him I wouldn’t marry him if it’ll end up in divorce, and that we both need to try everything together to never divorce.

    I still think he needs counseling, and I’m scrapping our agreement of being a SAHM to help him out financially next year. Maybe that’s the problem, but he denies it. Yes money is a little tight, and we technically live in poverty, but we have so little bills that we can technically live pretty comfortable off of $17,000/year as a family of 4.... so whatever extra we have from his job, bonuses, tax returns, is savings.

    Our parents make 4-5x my husband’s salary and they can never save as much as we could or cut back without feeling like they sacrificed anything like we could. In fact, we get people asking us for advice and then going “oh we can never do that!” 🤭

    I will see if me working fixes the issue. If it still doesn’t, and I have done everything else: therapy for myself, weight loss, taking better care of my appearance, being more responsible at home, learning to cook different meals, etc. then I will sadly have to leave.

    I can understand if my husband is severely disabled or has a fear of X, I can work around it at the expense of my mental health because I wouldn’t be able to leave my state (living in this state is deteriorating my mental health and making me unhappy).

    But he doesn’t have a disability, I do. He has no fears or mental issues, I do. I can not justify destroying my happiness and mental health, to try to compromise with him for a few more years. Our children deserve well adjusted parents. Over the last few years I went from shy beta to alpha by necessity.

    I’m the alpha female at my house, my husband is not even beta. I don’t know what he is. He started out as alpha and devolved into something else, weirdly he’s the alpha to everyone but me.

    I don’t WANT to be the only alpha. I want us both to be apex power couple we were striving for. This is frustrating.

    I do not know how much longer I can take but I will have to leave before our sons starts to follow his bad habits.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Well welcome to RPW. There are a ton of resources in the wiki & sidebar that might be of interest.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Ugh. Your comment is difficult to read on so many levels...

    One thing is clear to me - you don't understand what u/girlwithabike is talking about when she speaks of respecting your husband. While I'm sure you mean well and are trying to be supportive, it's clear to me from this very comment that you aren't very respectful towards your husband.

    I don't assume you're a bad person, I'll assume you're simply uninformed on what respect means to a man.

    Welcome to RPW, there's plenty you can learn here. I'd suggest starting with the post on respect by u/girlwithabike as a starting point. I'd suggest you continue with the rest of her posts that review the book - for women only.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Respect isn't how you talk to someone, it's how you feel about that person. How you speak to them is a demonstration of respect, not respect itself.

    As I said in the post, you should ask yourself if you trust him, would you follow him and would you introduce him proudly to friends and family. Do you think he makes good decisions, do you believe he'll do what he says he'll do? If you have a list of things you need him to change about himself then you may not respect him.

    But I cannot tell you if you respect someone or not, just like I cannot tell you if you love someone or not. These are your feelings and instincts that you must learn to get in touch with and understand.

    [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 -2 points-1 points  (21 children)

    Men need intimacy. I know you mean well here, but in a serious relationship men do not simply need sex. The more people keep repeating this "sex sex sex" thing, the more damaged the next generation will be.

    Intimacy = trust + respect + sex.

    Try to remove one of those ingredients and think about what that gets you.

    Sex just needs to be replenished in a different way than the other two. So it LOOKS like men just want sex. This is a very important distinction. Please fix this in your original post. You have a chance to do a good thing here. I hope you do.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (13 children)

    Right, the post that I linked about sex goes into the connection men feel between sex and love and that is why I did not restate it here. I spent quite a bit of time summarizing chapters from "For Women Only" about men's inner workings so that I didn't have to rehash it every time I spoke. I simply cannot help what people do not read.

    Also, no. I will not fix my post simply because you do not like it. You have given me no reason to respect you and therefore no reason to submit to your demands.

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 5 points6 points  (4 children)

    So... u/DD1 has this nice formula (in algebraic format) of: "Intimacy = trust + respect + sex"

    I don’t necessarily disagree, but "intimacy" is implied along with "respect."

    One can safely assume trust, intimacy, and every other emotion associated with "respect" is present, easily observed, and confirmed via your partner's behavior.

    For simple sex - no emotion is necessary...except maybe lust.

    cc - u/DeeplyDisturbed1

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Thank you for this. I don't disagree with the formula either. The 'sex' post that I linked addresses the exact thing he's talking about. Because of this, I felt, as you said, that the link between the two is implied and I could be more concise in my writing. These can be big topics and sometimes it's easier to consume bite sized pieces.

    [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    I see the connection, but these are pretty important nuances. The word that has been completely lost (not surprisingly) here is "Trust"

    I will leave it at that. Sometimes it is best to just let folks reflect on what was said. If my take on things is off base, people will ignore it in the long run. I am okay with that.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Again though, you did not read the linked posts or you would have seen this:

    Forcing ourselves to trust him in little things is a big deal to a man. The little demonstrations of respect are signs of our overall trust in him.

    [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ok. You are preaching and not listening. Trust and Respect are different words for a reason.

    Have a good day.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [removed]

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

      Those links are summaries of the chapters in a book that surveyed men across the spectrum to come up with overarching themes of how most men think and feel. I have received thanks from men for those summaries so I'm confident that what is outlined in the book fits with what many men feel.

      In most of the topics there are about 25% of men who don't fall into the "norm" of male thought (ie: what the other 75% think). You are obviously outside the norm.

      As a MGTOW man, your personal feelings matter a good deal less for women on RPW. You are not looking for marriage and you are not married. Therefore you represent a demographic that we won't engage with in a romantic sense and thus your personal feelings are moot here.

      Additionally, did you read more than the first sentence or did you stop there? This is further down: The Author’s lightbulb moment comes when she realizes that a man equates the respect and love. With this in mind, we can see that for a man feeling disrespected is no different than feeling unloved. & For your man, love is respect.

      It is terribly presumptuous to say that you do not feel a certain way and so it must be wrong. Anything we deal with in the RP subs is premised on the feelings and behaviors of the majority of women. I am 35 and still get attention from men. Does that mean that there is no decline in SMV after 30? After all it's not true for me. The wall can't be true if it's not true for me. Do you see the solipsistic error you are making?

      You were insulting to me in your demands and your assumptions that I must be incorrect because I am a woman. I responded in kind, after all, I owe you nothing more than what you give me. You did not approach me respectfully, I therefore have no reason to grant you respect. My advice here is at least sourced, yours is based on your own experience. Yet you felt completely entitled to tell me that I was incorrect and should make changes. My husband reads my writing before I post. I ask him to do this both for general editing and to make sure I'm not making any statement about men that are incongruent with his experience. There are several men on this sub that I respect a good deal. Had any of them written to me and expressed a concern about my phrasing or what I was saying, I'd have certainly reconsidered.

      Final thoughts Be wary when you read blanket statements about what men want, think, feel, and experience in love - especially when it comes from a member of the opposite sex. If I were to go into your post history, I assume that I will find no comments where you make blanket statements about what women want, think, feel and experience from you.

      [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 -1 points0 points  (5 children)

      As a MGTOW man

      I stopped right there.

      Have a good day.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

      No wait, explain to me why your advice is reflective of the men that RPW are looking to date? Or do you have no argument and so you are cutting out?

      Edit: I in no way meant for MGTOW to be a derogatory term. It is descriptive though is it not? And RPW aren't looking for MGTOW to date because by the very description, you don't want the committed relationship that we do. So the fact that your opinion on respect is an outlier coupled with the fact that you are MGTOW leads me to think that your advice on this topic is simply out of line with what is relevant to an RPW.

      [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      I am not a MGTOW person. I don't agree with that ideology - although I get it and it is not wrong for those men who feel that way. So that is why I stopped there. Not because of you but because of trolls who just spew this stuff all day. I am weary of name calling, simplistic boxes, and labels being applied - especially when they are the opposite of the truth.

      Look, you seem like a good person. I also agree with much of what you wrote, however, you seem to double down on your blanket statements, which are almost always wrong. I do the same thing sometimes, but I always back off when reminded. It is a natural normal minor mistake to make. But when it gets prescriptive like this, it is dangerous.

      [–]reddishrobin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Who says that girlwithabike's "blanket" statements are almost always wrong? Who made you the ultimate authority? She already said that she writes about the perspectives of the majority of men and women -which means there will always be some people who disagree. That doesn't make them wrong. She also said her husband has input into her posts before she publishes them, so that gives the stamp of approval from a well respected male contributor.

      [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Blanket statements themselves are almost always wrong.

      This is no difference. I do not care if she asked the Pope for input - her husband, Barack Obama and her husband are all individuals with an agenda.

      Do you think her husband is the most objective voice she can find?

      Think about what you just said - I just served as one additional check to what she wrote and you are attacking ME! And I didn't even make a claim - I am refuting a blatantly incorrect claim.

      Let that sink in for a minute.

      Everyone sleazes out of their sleaze in the exact same way:

      "Well I was just citing the author" "it was just a sample" "I didn't mean ALL men..." "Who are YOU to question me, since I am obviously right. Even my HUSBAND agrees"

      Let this all roll around for a minute. I do not expect you to be able to see this, but others are reading and they are the reason for me wasting my time on this. I was that guy once upon a time - trying to make sense of it all. And thank god for the critical thinkers.

      [–]reddishrobin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Its you who is saying her statements are "blanket" and its you who is saying they are "wrong". You didn't answer my question on who made you the authority to decide if other experienced people's posts are wrong or right?

      [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 4 points5 points  (4 children)

      OP is my wife, and we've been together for over a decade, and are both quite happy. She reads a great deal, and has done quite a bit of research and editing for her posts here.

      She's doing just fine, and the large volume of thanks she receives from the other readers here is a testament to that.

      If you think you can do better, put up your own writing to prove it, or shut up with your craven nonsense.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      You I respect greatly. I'd edit my post for you :-)

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I have a wife who respects me, so I will have a good day.

        Run back to your safe space little boy, and save your tears for your pillow.

        [–]DeeplyDisturbed1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Nice parting shot! Keep going man. This is too easy.

        [–]Vigilante4217 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        While you make a fairly clear point, demands will not get you anywhere. Contextual reading is always important, the OP did have a chance to do a good thing here and she's done just that by making this post as it is.