DISCUSSIONOne man's reply to my post about living together before marriage. (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by ambivalish

I posted in an FB group on what people thought about cohabitation before marriage. This is a group for introverts, nothing to do with red pill. There were over 150 replies (still coming) and less than 15 people approve of it! I wanted to share this guy's reply with this sub. Here's a screenshot.

'Everyone is different, so I would never tell someone "No," but I will elaborate on why I loved living apart. 1.) It built the anticipation and excitement like you wouldn't believe. 2.) It literally made the marriage a life changing event. So many people get married and say it's "same old, same old." That was not our case. 3.) "I do" set in motion a new chapter of our relationship. My girlfriend became my wife, and we embarked on exploring each other on newer and more romantic depths than ever before. 4.) I was burning my escape bridge. If we found us to be incompatible, we would have to adapt to one another and grow together-for each other. Simply living together leaves a convenient out that makes it too easy to "try someone out."'

[–]RedPillWonder 28 points29 points  (6 children)

I would advise against living together before marriage, for the same reasons as the man in your post (and probably a few more).

Many years ago, studies showed couples were far more likely to be divorced if they had lived together before marriage.

I haven't seen any new studies on that in recent years, so don't know if that holds. My guess is yes.

Also, from a comment I made previously on this topic:

Once a woman moves in, the guy gets everything he wants and would have in a marriage, minus the legality of the relationship marriage confers.

If anything, it can easily lead to him delaying marriage even longer because he basically has 'marriage' in all but name only.

[–]MissNissa 29 points30 points  (4 children)

studies showed couples were far more likely to be divorced if they had lived together before marriage

Remember that correlation is not the same as causation. The study does not show that living together before marriage causes divorce. Most likely what it is actually showing is that more religious people tend to socially prohibit both cohabitation and divorce.

[–]RedPillWonder 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Remember that correlation is not the same as causation

Yes, of course. But when many people use that line, it's a little bit of a red herring.

For example, people like to use it when discussing the higher N count correlates with far higher divorce rates. And they say "but it's not the cause!"

Maybe the cause is childhood trauma that lead to certain actions. Maybe it's a medical condition and meds they're taking. Maybe it's this or that. But if a common denominator keeps showing up, do many people care* what the cause is if they know that every time the common denominator shows up, it's a very good chance a certain result is going to follow?

*Now, hopefully as decent human beings, people care in the sense of wanting the best for someone, or to heal from past hurts or wounds.

In their personal interest though in many areas of life, including money, relationships and more, if they see that almost every time "x" is present, then "y" stands a really good chance of happening, they likely give more credence to the correlation than the cause.

[–]nymphelle 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well yes, "common denominator" is pretty much the correlation. I think what she meant is that while cohabitation and divorce are definitely related, cohabitation is not necessarily the cause.

[–]RedPillWonder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"common denominator" is pretty much the correlation

Yes, I just used different phrasing. I thought it was clear but sticking with the same word would've helped, I'm sure.

And yeah, I got her point. She was clear. I was making a larger one that despite the cause, strong correlations are enough to change decisions or alter behavior for many people, and often for good reasons.

[–]radioactivities9 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it also doesn't speak to whether the people are in happy marriages just because they're not divorced!

[–]perrierwoof 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Once a woman moves in, the guy gets everything he wants and would have in a marriage, minus the legality of the relationship marriage confers.

If anything, it can easily lead to him delaying marriage even longer because he basically has 'marriage' in all but name only.

Yes agreed. Although I have seen it work out for a few couples, but I feel it's risky. It also draws out the process longer (living together for a few years before marrying, typically) and you have to be willing to risk those few years without any sort of talk of proposal (usually these couples decide to live together to try it out then talk about marriage).

It works for some but for me I can't understand it, the whole "trying it out" scheme, seriously what is there to try out?? You just live in the same place and keep your same life. You have to deal with another person's mess sometimes but if you've lived with flatmates before it's not a shocker.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (12 children)

People nowadays want to have instant gratification and ease of access. Cohabitation fulfills both of those things and it's really a shame that separate living is now taking so much of a backseat. Easy to make things that used to be special into something mundane, then surprise! You're unhappy and don't know why.

[–]the_baumer 16 points17 points  (11 children)

I don't understand where this idea comes from. Im not married yet, we enjoy each other's company enough, we are happier living together than apart - what exactly is the problem?

Edit: maybe it's just my view point of marriage is that's it's not holy. It's a binding legal contract and rewards us tax benefits and other perks, like certain rights. Since I've moved in with him I've treated him as a wife but a wife doesn't mean you have to be married. Acting like one is good enough for me and my boyfriend. When we're ready to merge our legal identities we will.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I agree. Life is short. My BF & I work insane hours and if we lived apart we would either not see each other very often, or we'd be constantly sleeping over and therefore paying two rents for no reason (that is substantial $ around here). We love each other and I don't want to give up a single wonderful moment we could be spending together - even brushing our teeth next to each other every night feels magical and giggly and special.

Instant gratification? Hm, maybe! :) I know we'll marry as soon as we're able to. I understand that waiting for something makes it special in some ways, but I honestly do not understand what I'd be waiting for. We're adults, we're completely aligned on the future, and I don't think not living together will accomplish anything other than depriving ourselves of many hours of joy. I'm not worried that either of us will lose our desire to get married or have children because we're living together - I know all the reasons he looks forward to those steps and they still hold super true. And same for me!

Every day with my BF is a gift and a blessing and a chance to improve myself and experience a life-changing love, and to me, living with him allows me to experience more of that love and drink up more of his amazing energy. I know this is the cheeeesiest post ever, but it's been tha tkind of day!

[–]fairydust91 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am so happy to read your comment. We live together as well and I literally couldn't imagine NOT living together at this point. I basically live with my best friend and I love every single day of it 99% of the time. Most on this site feel rather strongly about waiting to be engaged/married so it's nice to see a happy couple that live together. I don't see it as a holy thing either but I'd like to get married eventually. I'm kind of hoping he will see living with me is something he wants to do forever. He's been talking about kids lately so I think it's working haha.

[–]perrierwoof 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Just out of curiosity, did you talk about marriage in the future before moving in together?

And if not, what would happen if you continued to live with him hoping for eventual marriage but one day he realizes he doesn't want you as a wife? Would you move out?

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So we did :) we had already discussed future life plans (kids, # of kids, where we'd live, priorities, religion, etc.) and agreed we were planning to marry each other as soon as we hit certain life goals, all before we moved in. We weren't at "I could see myself marrying you" or "maybe one day we'll get married" - I made sure we were at "I can't see myself not marrying you." For instance, if I unexpectedly got pregnant at this point and wanted to keep the child, we've agreed we'd get married immediately.

Neither of us is the type to date for the sake of dating, so if either of us decided we weren't going to marry & have kids with the other, we'd break up and both move out of the apartment.

[–]perrierwoof 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don't think it's the point of being holy but it's the point of why buy the cow when you're giving the milk away for free. I mean obviously it varies for each couple and it does work out sometimes, but I've also seen way too many couples who have lived together for YEARS, woman was in smitten and hoping for marriage and the relationship was going that direction in every single way, their lives totally intertwined, then the man realizes she's not going to be his wife. But he's OK with her living with him and won't complain having free female company. So she has to make the move to leave.

[–]the_baumer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Maybe then that woman and most woman shouldn't put so much weight on marriage and just be grateful they have a monogamous partner in life. If my boyfriend never wanted to get married but still committed to me I would dumb to walk away for that. You don't have to be legally binded to be a life partner. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: here's a real story to prove my point. Friend of a friend walked away from an 11 year relationship because he didn't want to get married. Now she's single in her thirties and desperate for a husband. Hope it was worth the risk for a piece of paper.

[–]perrierwoof 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But then why didn't he want to get married? If theoretically they had a relationship exactly like a marriage just minus the paper, what's the big deal of just making it legal? It seems shady to me in that case. If two people are committed to each other and the legality gives you MORE benefits, why not?

In the case of fear of divorce rape for the man, if he didn't want to get married it seems like he didn't trust her.

[–]Watches_Porn_Alot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man here, but both can work. The key is to not compare them. They are separate styles of living and different choices. Some make it work some don't. I think a lot of people here just want that "marriage" experience maybe? You can get fake married to each other too lot's of people do that to avoid legal marriage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It's not so much that marriage is holy, it's more about absence making the heart grow fonder. I mean for me at least there was always a special thrill and anticipation that was definitely amplified with time spent apart. Married or no. Cohabitation is fine, but just personally there's some extra spark there when you're not.

[–]the_baumer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Okay I get that. Maybe some people want that spark - it sounds nice, but I like the slow burn of living together more than the spark.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It certainly is preference based, but it's really questionable nowadays how many people actually experience the former for any length of time. Seems like it's one big shack up out there lol.

[–]est-la-lune 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My boyfriend and I enjoy having our own space and except under less-than-ideal circumstances I'd prefer to keep separate houses before I was at least engaged.

You can learn a lot about someone's habits from careful observation, though. The rest is compromise. My housemate does things I can't stand, but not everything is worth fighting over.

[–]Cardiscappa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of: https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/waiting-till-wedding-night-getting-married-right-way/

I figure the longer I can pee without having to close the door, the better.

[–]hedonismftw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I cohabitated before marriage, and I think it was the right decision for us. I think the stress of trying to combine everything at once would have ruined the wedding. Yes, many things were"the same" after, but it was comforting to fall back into our life together, with the blissful bonus of saying "husband." Our lifestyles were also thoroughly vetted together, so no unpleasant surprises!

That said, I do feel that people rush this part of the courtship, and often live together for fun and convenience rather than because you truly believe in the relationship.

[–]Arcade42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I did it, it was because I had a bad experience moving in to a college dorm with a friend from high school. People can be great SOs and Friends, but absolutely horrible to live with. Some people would just rather find out if those issues are something they can live with rather that entering a legal contract blindly. I know I wouldn't have ever moved in with my roommate if he had told me he has to airdry after showers, which means locking me from our (my) room for 2 solid hours and he showers twice a day.

[–]blindedbythebrights 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would like to add to this discussion by sharing my own point of view. I have cohabited with a previous partner and for me, that was an eye-opener and a blessing: living apart, we were amazing together, but our lifestyles and priorities were simply too different to ever be combined in one household. Without going in to detail; if I had to find out how incompatible we were after we were married (and how he coped), I would now probably be a very unhappily married wife. Instead, I left, rented my own apartment and after a while met someone new. Soon enough, we were basically living together, constantly sleeping over. We live in a big city where rent is very expensive, and most of all wanted to be able to come home to each other every night. So we decided to rent an apartment together. That was a big step in itself and a big deal for the both of us, that we didn't go about casually.

For me, the difference with marriage is that I keep my relationship with him in the now. We have a joint bank account for shared costs, but separate savings. The other day, he was talking about us maybe buying a house in a couple of years, but I casually replied that that's a big commitment that I wouldn't make with someone I'm not married to. Getting married, to me, would mean that we promise each other to stay together and be there for each other for the rest of our lives. Right now, if we were to break up, we could just each move out of this apartment (okay, there would be some furniture to divide that we bought together), rent something new, and move on with our lives.

If he wants me forever, he'll have to ask :D And no, I do not feel like the "why buy the cow"-argument makes sense in my case, because I made sure I'm with a man who has long-term plans and ultimately wants to be married, and am still prepared to leave if that would turn out to not be the case.

[–]carefreevermillion2 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm living with my boyfriend for about 8 months now, and while we didn't intend for me to live with him until after he graduated, it helped us bond really well and confirmed for both of us that we've found our lifetime partner. I think if college wasn't in our lives and futures we'd be seriously discussing when we wanted to get married. So I'm pro living together if you're really sure he's the one.