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LTR/MARRIAGEMy husband is now TRP (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Terra_Lee

So I have to be honest and say I am not a RPW. Until about a month ago I didn't know that this was a thing people did. But my husband of four years has recently decided he is red pill, and so I have to figure out what I'm doing here. I need your advice on what to do here. I know for a fact anyone else I ask will tell me to divorce him- I love my husband and want to see if I can make this work, so I'm turning to you ladies for advice.

So some background: We have been married four years. Things have been great- obviously we have problems like any other couple, but overall we have had an incredibly happy marriage. We both work and have split household chores basically evenly. A lot of them we actually do together.

Then about 6 months ago, he lost his job. He works in business and I've always known those jobs are fluid (my dad had the same issues) so I wasn't too surprised. He got a new job pretty quickly, but at a pay cut. I know it is tacky to say how much we make, but its the only thing I can think of that triggered the change. He went from making $60K to about $45K. This is a huge cut, and I see how it depressed him. But I make $240K before my performance incentives.... So as a couple, its not like our net earnings changed that much. But the new job is when he started getting depressed, so I think that it was important to him.

So this leads me to my problem now: about a month ago, he told me he has been reading TRP subredit and thinks that he's depressed because of our gender roles and the blue pill stuff (?). He would now like me to take on all of the household work and thinks we should immediately start trying for a baby (our plan was to wait another year or two so that I could get a bit farther in my career). He doesn't want me to stop working (as we would then have to move out of our dream home we just finished building and probably sell our cars).

I'm not sure I'm good with this. I don't want to take on the extra work. I'm not ready for a kid. I don't like his anger with me. We've always been very open, but I feel like I can't even talk to him. He makes plans with his friends without talking to me at all- I come home from work and he's just gone, no matter what we had planned on doing... our sex life is suffering because he has gotten incredibly aggressive. We've always been on the same wavelength with sex, but he's taken me when I've said no during a fight and once when I was actually still asleep (clearly I woke up)... The way he is now sex hurts and I don't really want anything to do with it... He wants me to have my IUD removed by the end of the month with the goal of me being pregnant by October/November.

Idk is this what TRP is about? Is this a phase? Can I talk him out of this?


[–]IVIaskerade 94 points95 points  (1 child)

Your husband is not RP. Let me reiterate - this is not what TRP is about. Guys like him are actually more annoying to me than people who oppose TRP, because guys like him have the knowledge to do things right and aren't.

The basic process - that is, simply laying the groundwork, unplugging, and getting your headspace sorted - takes at least six months, probably a year to fully come into effect. That he's trying to say things after one month is indicative that he's far too new to be doing anything of the sort.

What your husband has done is the same as many new people - they've seized onto something new and different as a coping mechanism. It might have been religion, or social justice, or TRP. It doesn't really matter to him what it is, just that it provides structure and meaning to his life.
The problem is that he doesn't understand. Right now he's at the level of "monkey see, monkey do". He's just copying things he thinks are RP without understanding the deeper reasons behind them. He's heard that being "alpha" is necessary but he doesn't understand what alpha is - what makes it tick. He doesn't see the underlying self-mastery because part of self-mastery is not showing it.
He raped you because he thinks that's the alpha thing to do, not realising that the alpha thing to do is diffuse the fight in such a way as make-up sex follows naturally. Actually raping someone, that's horrendous.

He needs to sit down and take a good long look at himself before he says anything to you. In fact, he shouldn't have to say anything to you at all. If he'd just got on with getting in better shape, getting his career back on track, and actually doing the things that make one a good captain, you wouldn't be here talking to RPW. You'd be too busy jumping his bones - consensually.

As hard as it will be for you, at this point I'd leave him. For fucks sake he actually raped you. That's grounds to leave no matter what. Maybe he'll come ranting to TRP and they can set him straight, but in the meantime the best thing you can do is focus on keeping yourself safe and moving on with your life. Find a captain you're happy to be first mate to, have those kids you're ready for, and forget this unfortunate end.

[–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This is a pretty solid comment I think you're spot on about him using the redpill as a scapegoat coping mechanism for a difficult time in his life. However, I think encouraging divorce can be a dangerous recommendation if you don't have all the context and details.

[–][deleted]  (8 children)

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[–]Nyquil-Junkie 21 points22 points  (2 children)

It looks maybe like he feels emasculated by the current financial/job side of things and the baby + housework is meant to "put you in your place."

True. He is seeking to lower your SMV, make sure he now makes the most money, and you know "your place". He's a pathetic self loathing worm. Divorce him, file charges and take half of he net worth. And a few yrs of freedom for good measure.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    If the OP is telling the truth, he's not a "shitty team mate".... he's a rapist. Thats a deal breaker under any color pill.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 15 points16 points  (4 children)

    Thank you, based on the advice here I think I am going to look at getting a therapist for us

    [–]Red-Curious 21 points22 points  (2 children)

    If you do, make sure it's a male therapist. Maybe even insist he chooses the therapist (after all, if he says he's RP, he should be decisive on this, not deferring to you). If it's a female therapist, he's going to go blabbing about how it didn't work to other RP guys and they're going to say, "That's what you get for going to a girl." Of course, if it's a man and he doesn't like the results, he's going to frame it with bias and they're all going to blame the male therapist of being a beta chump who just wants to side with the feminist agenda. So ... your best bet is to insist on therapy, but let him take the lead on it. Set hard deadlines and consequences before you escalate your response to how he's treating you.

    Sure, he's going to interpret this as you making him enter your frame - and you are. But if his frame is full of nails and broken glass, he can't really expect you to enter his. /u/jacktenofhearts once wrote up a really good post on this ... something about making a titanium frame that's so barren and uncomfortable that nobody could live inside of it. Search his post history and see if you can find something like that ... you'll find some great stuff in there either way, even if you don't find it.

    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    She needs the therapist alone. He forfeit his right to couples therapy or any other sort of consideration.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Terra, I would be very cautious about accepting advice from anonymous internet personalities with respect to decisions of divorce.

    [–]WiseMonkeyGoodMonkey 56 points57 points  (2 children)

    Idk is this what TRP is about? Is this a phase? Can I talk him out of this?

    Guy here. No, this is not what TRP is supposed to be about. Nor is having you make the majority of the incoming funds while doing all the chores while acting as a broodmare. I have no idea what your husbands issue is, but clearly he needs some therapy for it. And as many here are already saying, don't have sex when you don't want. Don't take out your IUD if you don't want. And unless it's a kink of yours (that you've worked out before hand) sex with you while you sleep is rape.

    There are some deeply hurt and angry people over TRP way, but I have yet to meet any that would genuinely advocate this behavior. There's literally no reason to tolerate it. So don't.

    As far as talking him out of it, you'd have to first get him to talk about what his real issue is. I don't know either of you, so only you can say if what you had before this is worth the effort it will take.

    [–]S1ayer 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    I find that /r/TheRedPill is a little extreme sometimes. Like the post the other day about focusing on your pleasure only during sex. And the guy goes on to say how he's jackhammering women and "ripping their vagina apart" and they love it.

    Some of the posts sound like they are fake. Keyboard warriors strutting around and showing their feathers. Some people may get the wrong impression when reading about TRP for the first time.

    [–]LadyXon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely.

    At first I thought, "Good on your husband." Then I read your account of his domineering behaviour, and changed my mind.

    Red Pill is about male empowerment, which concurrently positively correlates with female empowerment. If your husband is scapegoating you, undermining your professional achievements and lifestyle choices, then he's doing Red Pill wrong.

    A good rule of thumb to test for reasonable behaviour is to ask: is this something an abundant man would do? I.e. If this person was financially, sexually, spiritually empowered, would this behaviour be congruent?

    Burdening you with rigid, predetermined household roles isn't this.

    The anger phase, however, is just a phase. I suggest you read the Red Pill sidebar, and Red Pill Women too, and develop a complete understanding of what Red Pill exists for and how it benefits men (and their partners). Then you'll be able to discuss these issues with your husband, and discern underlying causes for his frustration. What seems incontrovertible is that he's feeling disempowered; setting out to subtly assist in his re-empowerment would be an excellent place to start. Advice on this is plentiful in Red Pill Women, and can also be inferred from TRP.

    [–]HB3234 25 points26 points  (2 children)

    I have to echo everyone here.

    RUN. Do not, do not, do not have a child with this man.

    He wants you to be the alpha breadwinner - notice how he doesn't entertain the idea of you not working - and he wants you to do all the housework, and he wants you available for sex only on his terms, and he wants is a child. So he wants you to be man, woman, bank, and god all in this relationship, so he can nurse his fragile, wounded ego.

    This is a broken man who, rather than seek healing, longs to tear you down to his level of brokenness.

    I am so sorry this happened to you, but if he changed this way then I suspect his discontent ran deeper and longer than you ever suspected.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    I suspect his discontent ran deeper and longer than you ever suspected.

    In posting here, I think that is the most heartbreaking thing I've discovered. I've been truly happy in our marriage and partnership. It seems he probably wasn't

    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    TRP was only the catalyst. It did not cause or convince him to be a violent douchebag. This was most likely his nature to begin with, and he was to cowed or "blue pilled" as they say, to act on it.

    Now, the genie is out of the bottle. He is who he probably always was, inside. One cannot unring a bell.

    I'll be you a dozen donuts, the more you council, therapy and try to work it out, the worse he becomes.

    As they say.... when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

    [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 45 points46 points  (3 children)

    If your husband is becoming violent and coercive, then waiting to see how this will play out and trying to work on things rationally is not an option. You need to separate immediately. I'm sorry if this is the advice you didn't want to hear, but your safety comes first.

    I don't normally advocate inviting other people into your business, but is there someone you both know and respect that you can confide in about your husband's sudden shift? Like your father-in-law, a good friend, or a brother? Ideally, someone who cares about him that would also be willing to talk some sense?

    Also, he can't just take all things he likes about TRP (like having a submissive, homemaker wife and mother) if he can't pull his weight and is insisting that you remain the primary breadwinner.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Honestly, I haven't told anyone. I know what advice I would give a friend/family member if I told them this: they would demand we separate and might even call the police. Even if they don't, if he snaps out of this what would it mean to his family that he did this?

    [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    If you know that the people who love and care for you would demand you leave and go so far as to report him to the police, and you're afraid that those nearest and dearest to him would find his actions abhorrent, then you know what the right thing to do is. You need to leave him.

    I'm sorry that I don't have the magic advice for how to fix your husband. Rule #1 of RPW (which is simple common sense really), is that you cannot stay with, let alone submit to, a man who is violent.

    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Even if they don't, if he snaps out of this what would it mean to his family that he did this?

    I bet if you put the screws to his parents.... they wouldn't be surprised he turned.

    [–]Hughes1059 40 points41 points  (1 child)

    as a man, recently married with some very traditional beliefs in the male/female relationship. I can certainly say this although tbh this is the second post I'm reading on TRP related info. HIS behavior is gross. again I'm just toe deep in this thought myself but to me the gender roles are paid in full BOTH ways. If I wish for a wife to accept said gender roles I need to accept a word that is lost in 2017... GENTLEMAN! that is just simply not how a man treats a lady!

    quite honestly reading this made me want to give your ole man a "traditional" ass whoopin lol

    [–]koiotchka 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I want to see you give him the whoopin he deserves :/

    [–]indivisibleremainder 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    Your husband is in what TRPers call the "anger phase"

    TRP is full of useful truths, but it is also an ideology, and many of it's followers are blind to the nuances of reality.

    Your husband has latched onto TRP as a way to explain his own failures and inadequacies. Much like SJWs who blame the world's problems on so-called Nazis, the angry TRPer will blame womankind.

    It's ironic since the core ideas of TRP are about shouldering the responsibility for one's life, working hard, self improvement and leadership.

    The younger men often quickly pass through the anger phase. They're mad because they feel like they've been tricked by society and their parents. Told the wrong things about how to treat women, how to treat themselves.

    However, the older men have a harder time. They may have years of repressed sexuality, failed relationships, neglected health & career: wasted potential. If the pain of life is great enough, and the man weak, the anger phase can last forever.

    Your husband's behavior is deeply disturbing. He is now like the 'sheep in wolf's clothing', an angry blue-pilled beta trying to act like a big alpha man. This is dangerous, because in his bitterness and resentment, he will justify his own violent, spiteful and contemptuous behavior. You are now the symbol of all that is wrong in his life, you are to blame for his failure to reach his fullest potential.

    I think the real answer to your husband would be, "OK honey, why don't you build yourself up and start making $250k, then I'll quit my career, become a submissive housewife and start pumping out babies,"

    You can see how ridiculous that is. Even if he magically attained the career tomorrow - is this a man you're willing to submit to? Can he lead and protect you, raise your family? Is he religious? Is he smart? Does he have skills, hobbies and passions, things to teach and pass down? What in God's name does he bring to the table?

    In my most honest and humble opinion, abandon ship immediately.

    And I encourage you to browse RPW in the future. If you follow the simple and practical advice around here, you'll attract a higher value man, hopefully one that is less resentful and more mentally stable ;)

    Good luck

    [–]rabid_god 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    Guy here too. This man is in no way a RP man. It sounds to me like he's read bits and pieces that sound good to him but ultimately he is misinterpreting the concept and pushing everything off on you to make it work. I understand that a pay cut is a huge slap to one's ego, but no reason to exert dominance over your spouse.

    Likely what is happening is that he is a weak man and realizes that you are in a much more dominant position than he and he is taking advantage of you. His attempts to get you pregnant seem like a way to somehow lock you into a relationship with him. Your situation with him does not have a strong chance of improving. If he is willing to rape you to get what he wants then what's next? Do not be afraid to make changes if they are necessary. Find yourself a partner of equal worth (as a person not a paycheck) or better.

    [–]MostlyTroubled 27 points28 points  (15 children)

    So... he had sex with you by force after you said no during a fight? By most definitions, that's spousal rape.

    Also, TRP is meant to be a consensual and mutually agreed upon arrangement. You did not marry him under these expectations. You are not obligated to abide by them. If you really want to save your marriage, you should see a marriage and family therapist to get to the bottom of your husband's sudden shift.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 9 points10 points  (14 children)

    I felt very much raped. However, I've been reading on the forum he read and know they don't acknowledge spousal rape, so I'm trying not to hold him to it. I'm just not sure. Thank you for the advice on a counselor.

    I think I'm kind of just shocked that the whole marriage just went sideways and not thinking straight still...

    [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (2 children)

    Most men on the trp forum are not married and are mostly there to get help with spinning plates/being successful outside of relationships. They think being married is for suckers. It's not a healthy view to marriage or a long-term relationship. From your post, I immediately thought of the term spousal rape. I've been assaulted and I can't begin to understand the feelings you must be going through right now to feel so violated by someone you trust.

    I agree with MostlyTroubled about the therapist. Also do you have anywhere you could go that's safe if need be? Parents, siblings, friends?

    Having traditional red pill roles in marriage is not an excuse for the husband to act aggressive and treat you as his emotional punching bag. You should not be afraid of your husband.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

    I moved into a long stay hotel Sunday evening. He has tried to come see me there and at work, but I said I needed a few days to think.

    [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    I'm glad. I think that was a good choice. I hope he is willing to talk to a therapist with you and that this works out.

    Edit: also, please remember, that you don't deserve this treatment and that his new ideology does not mean you have to follow. Don't set yourself on fire to keep him warm. The most important aspect of a red pill marriage dynamic is trust and he has effectively destroyed it.

    [–]blacktulip00 23 points24 points  (4 children)

    You're trying to not hold him to raping you because the rapist forum he reads doesn't properly acknowledge rape?

    Good luck with the divorce.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    I know it seems crazy. But I've been in love with this man for years. I can't imagine life with out him. This hasn't been him at all.

    [–]blacktulip00 28 points29 points  (1 child)

    it seems crazy

    I didn't talk about how it "seems."

    Your husband is a weak man who feels emasculated by you so he listened to neckbeard internet strangers and raped you.

    [–]BigOleRedSimpson 19 points20 points  (0 children)

    To add onto this, it's important to know you haven't done anything wrong. Stay strong!

    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    I know it seems crazy. But I've been in love with this man for years. I can't imagine life with out him. This hasn't been him at all.

    Well, he's not him anymore. Now, he's just a moron who took life advice from a pick up artist sub reddit and thinks its "the truth".

    If you go back and he can't have sex with you, he'll take their advice and cheat on you, and blame you for it.

    Better in 4 yrs than 40. Start walking.

    [–]teaandtalk4 Stars 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    It doesn't matter if he acknowledges it or not, it is rape if you clearly didn't want it and he did it anyway. Don't try to rationalise it away.

    [–]themotherwolf 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    i am so sorry you went through this.

    i might be mistaken, because i am a woman, but most male red pill advocates i know would also agree he crossed a clear legal and moral line.

    according to that paradigm, he's allowed to request and frankly expect sex from his wife - and she's allowed to say "no." there are red pill consequences for the latter, of course; but to my knowledge they aren't actively encouraging rape in any form.

    all of which is to say: your husband is responsible for that reprehensible action. see a counselor but don't write off your feelings or fail to correctly identify what he did to you.

    again, i am so sorry.

    [–]Nyquil-Junkie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I've been reading on the forum he read and know they don't acknowledge spousal rape, so I'm trying not to hold him to it.

    Um... you don't play by their rules, you play by the law. He knows its spousal rape. Don't enable him.

    [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    TRP thinking is the kind of tool that a good man uses to build a relationship up, and that bad man uses to make a relationship a exploitive catastrophe.

    A confident person's natural focus in a relationship is bringing the other person up to their level - whatever their strengths, you'll feel the benefit of them. An insecure, self-loathing person's natural focus in a relationship is bringing the other person DOWN to their level - they are so constantly filled with shame and shame-induced rage that the only thing they can think about is their "lowly" status. The less they can verbalize this, the more intense the feeling. They fixate and fixate and want to tear you down.

    Your SMV, frankly, is much higher than this guy's. TRP will tell you income doesn't raise a woman's SMV but someone who (by the sounds of it) relatively effortlessly makes $240K before bonus is simply of a higher status than a man whose "career in business" is unstable and low-earning (by the way, what does that mean?? I'm pretty sure most careers in "business" are not actually that fluid). Not to mention he obviously has personality issues. I don't mean a bad personality, I mean potentially a personality disorder.

    This man raped you. He's just using "TRP" as shorthand for his rage. The reason everyone tells you to divorce him is because you need to divorce him. For the love of God, do not have his child.

    [–]Terra_Lee[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I would never say it to him, but he's a paper pusher. Anyone can do that job. Office managers, HR, ect are always the first ones to go in a layoff scenario. He used to like what he did, and liked that he could be home when I was... I work in research, so I have somewhat long hours.

    If you told me that an alien replaced my husband with someone else I would probably believe you.

    But thank you for your advice.

    [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I'm so sorry - this sounds like an incomprehensibly hard position to be in. Sometimes people have these parts of their personality that are unapparent in normal times but suddenly emerge in difficult ones, and it's hard to think that ugly streak has been there the whole time.

    And what blows my mind about this situation is that these "difficult" ones are not in fact that difficult. If he behaves like this because your family's income diminished by such a small fraction, would he be a strong and loyal leader if you got sick? If you had a kid who had a disability, or a serious illness? If you lost your job and you had to sell your house? If he gets laid off again, and for much, much longer? What if his boss just reams him out at work?

    [–]Banincoming 35 points36 points  (3 children)

    So he's a rapist and wants you to quit the job where you make more than 5x as much as him. RPW is about finding a man WORTH surrendering yourself to. This guy sounds far from it.

    [–]noheaking 22 points23 points  (2 children)

    He doesn't want her to quit. He wants her to take care of the home while also being the primary breadwinner. Essentially, he wants her to take on both roles while he flexes his alphaness.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]noheaking 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Yes. I should have put alphaness in quotations.

      [–]EGOtyst 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      He is missing the most important fundamental of TRP: Performance.

      Men Perform. That is what attracts women. High Performance. If he isn't performing, then he can fuck right off. Pretty simple.

      [–]Nyquil-Junkie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Yep you're screwed. Go read the TRP forums and get inside his head.

      He sounds like TRP did its job and turned him into a real prick.

      You're right... I suggest you divorce him. Looks like he raped you so... No real conundrum there.

      Be glad you have an IUD, you don't want his kids.

      [–]munotia 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      I'm just casually browsing (not necessarily RPW but I like to lurk) and I just wanted to say I am really sorry that you are made to suffer due to his recent aggressive behaviour. MostlyTroubled is right, spousal rape and all. If you can at all without risking your safety, don't take out your IUD. He is not in the right state of mind to become a father, IMO, and getting pregnant now would really complicate your situation. Definitely get to a marriage counselor. :-(

      [–]Terra_Lee[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Thank you for the input. I think, with the feedback here I will seek a counselor.

      [–]Aliwithani 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If you are worried about your safety if you keep the IUD, you can have the strings snipped. It's not normal procedure but is often done in reduced cost clinics, and even regular practices, if requested. Especially if you bring up the safety concern. They may try to get more details out of you and give you info about abuse hotlines but shouldn't deny the request.

      [–]tuyguy 13 points14 points  (9 children)

      Men can get very carried away very quickly by trp. I know I did. I said some things I didn't mean and I thought some thoughts that weren't me. For like a year this went on.

      Eventually I calmed down and thankfully I have a much healthier outlook on intergender dynamics and life in general.

      This is actually very common in men who start reading it because it makes a lot of sense for many of us who had been confused for the entirety of our lives.

      My advice would be to ask him to continue reading and apply his readings to his life before applying it to his marriage. He needs to change before he can expect his life to change. It is his responsibility. Let him do what he wants in his personal sphere but to leave your marriage alone for now. At the very least he needs to start going to the gym every second day plus one other self improvement activity. He needs to excel in his own life before he's allowed to start asking you to change. This does not happen overnight and other people cannot help him. Revisit in one year.

      PS a man needs to earn his wife doing the chores. It's not simply her job because she's a woman. Traditional gender roles do not guarantee a successful couple. A successful couple complement each other by excelling in their respective chosen areas.

      [–]Terra_Lee[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

      Are there therapists who work with RP men? Is that something we could look for?

      [–]Nyquil-Junkie 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      If you include him in your therapy, you'll fail.

      He can have his own therapist. You need yours alone.

      [–]Terra_Lee[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      If you include him in your therapy, you'll fail. He can have his own therapist. You need yours alone.

      I've considered that we will need our own therapy, but I think we will need time to work through this together too. Do you disagree with doing sessions together and apart?

      [–]Nyquil-Junkie 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      To start with, you need yours alone to work through the rape aspect. Get your head together before you engage in working on the marriage together.

      If he is determined to be TRP..... he;ll manipulate you in your confused state. There is no rush. Work on your own therapy and leave him to work out his own. When you have strengthened yourself, and worked through it.... then go ahead and engage him and the marriage.

      I wouldn't have any contact at all with him until you are mentally strong again. He'll live, he'll have time to stew in his own juice, maybe become worse, maybe realize he fucked up.

      But he'll play you in a weakened state. Don't fall for it. Take your time and work it out.

      I'm not sure you as yet realized what he really did.

      [–]tuyguy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Genuinely RP men don't need it. Beta nerds reading RP for the first time definitely need it. There's lots of advice there about how one needs to actually put in the work and earn the respect you crave, but in reality it's easy to take shortcuts.

      [–]IVIaskerade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Are there therapists who work with RP men?

      Yes, but you'd call them sparring partners.

      On a serious note, not really. The closest you'd get would be mentorship under an RP man. I've often considered an island retreat sort of place as a project for when I retire.

      [–]chief-w 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      RP different tend to be sceptical of therapy. There are some self-help themed RP blogs that have no tolerance for a man who doesn't lift (and maintain other hobbies) and work his ass off too.

      http://freenortherner.com/omegas-guide/ This is an old one that is really well done. He did some RP stuff in the early days but mostly focuses on alt Canadian/American/Western politics now.

      [–]Terra_Lee[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Thank you! I think I will look into this.

      [–]chief-w 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I really advise staring worth this guy because of his side bar. He has a treasure trove of different perspectives: Christian, married, female, single, and it goes without saying that the majority or male focused. Also r/marriedredpill would be a better place for your marriage than TRP. It's in the name.

      [–]Limeycat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      No no no no no. Your husband is not red pill in the slightest and has no understanding of what it takes to be so.

      Instead of being a strong, courageous and kind leader, he raped you and is trying to put you in your place by making you do all the house work and hold down your bread-winning job while he does sod all.

      Please leave him. You can do so much better than this pathetic excuse of a man.

      [–]Red-Curious 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm not sure I'm good with this.

      I am sure for you: You're not good with this.

      I don't want to take on the extra work. I'm not ready for a kid.

      The problem is that he's reading about RP without being RP. He's going Rambo, he's telling you about RP (which is like Rule #1 - no talking about fight club), he's making irrational demands, he's not owning his stuff. He wants all the benefits of RP praxeology without actually being RP. Tell him to make a field report on r/marriedredpill or to ask if he's making the right moves on r/askMRP and he's going to get his butt ripped by people like /u/stonepimpletilists (yeah, you've helped me more than I like to let on) telling him that actually being RP is not the same as demanding people to treat you like you're RP. You don't get the submission until you're a guy worth submitting to.

      Idk is this what TRP is about?

      No.

      Is this a phase?

      Yes, it's called going Rambo. It's when a guy discovers RP for the first time and tries to implement everything all at once before he's actually internalized things and improved himself. The phase will last until someone knocks some sense into him or until he actually becomes the kind of man where you can actually respect these requests (whether or not you agree).

      When his SMV is higher than yours, that's when he's earned the right to start calling the shots - and you'll actually agree with him. From the sound of it, you're bringing a heck ton of value to the table. He's not bringing much. He needs you more than you need him. This means you have the power. Until he gets his act together enough that you need him more, his demands are laughable. But this is going to take a lot of effort and work and more time than he's willing to commit. So, what does he do? He takes the cheater-method: he bluffs it in the hope that you'll believe him. Sure, "fake it til you make it" has a place, but not when your spouse knows you're faking. Then you just look like an idiot.

      Can I talk him out of this?

      No, probably not. You can't control him - you can only control you. If he's reading RP subs without posting for feedback, any resistance you put up is probably going to be interpreted by him as a fitness test, making him want to try even harder until he "tames" you or pushes you away so far that you just leave him - at which point he'll blame you and call you feminist trash or something because you're a woman who doesn't need him.

      If he does ask for feedback and start posting stuff, assuming you're giving an accurate representation of the situation (and I never take this assumption lightly), he's going to get his butt handed to him and will probably be told to go into monk mode for a few months until he actually learns what the heck he's doing before ruining his marriage.

      Since he's already open with you about it, probably the best thing you can do to get him in line is to learn RP yourself. He has glorified RP in his mind - he won't listen to you, but he will listen to "RP." So, learn it better than he knows it. If he's falling out of line with his own commitment to RP, show him some sidebar material or posts that explain where he went wrong. Do this enough and he'll realize real fast why we all refrain: "Don't talk about fight club - especially not with your SO/spouse!"

      That said, so you don't come off as a shrew, you're probably better off just suggesting he post on r/marriedredpill or r/askmrp to get answers from people who he'll actually listen to. Say things like, "If AWALT, then I'm like that too - so go ask your RP buddies how to deal with me and see what they say." But when you say it, be dead serious - not snippy or sarcastic or anything like that. The best time to approach this kind of stuff is actually out of the blue, not in response to anything he says or does. If it's reactionary, he'll presume an attitude in you. If it's out of the blue and part of a serious conversation he might actually take it seriously.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]Terra_Lee[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

      I honestly don't care how much money he makes. I love my job and I'm really good at it. It has allowed us to travel, build a dream home, and have a lot of the things in life we've wanted.

      [–]Nyquil-Junkie 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      I love my job and I'm really good at it. It has allowed us to travel, build a dream home, and have a lot of the things in life we've wanted.

      And don't you give it up for him. Thats what he wants.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I see your point.

        [–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (1 child)

        I'm confused? What do you mean? There are lots of two parent two income families with men that make less then this that do just fine. I actually think that a low income lifestyle can sometimes be even more conducive to a healthy redpill dynamic.

        [–]noheaking 15 points16 points  (0 children)

        He makes less than a quarter was she does and instead of increasing his earning potential wants her to continue earning but also take on all the housework and raise a child. He's not fulfilling his role as a protector (he raped her ffs) and provider and doesn't have any room to place those sorts of demands on her.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Men do not become red pill overnight. It takes years. He is in the anger phase and might be for awhile. He needs to listen to podcasts of actual men talking about real world applications. Not everything ia black and white. Before he can ask you to change a damn thing HE needa to change and atart by taking responsibility. He is blaming you and demeaned by your earning power. This is stupid and Beta as it gets, its childish. He has a long way to go.

        Your are welcome to be here and learn about positive means of support and encouragement with him. However putting your financial futures in jeopardy because he is feeling a sort of way is stupid and counter productive.

        [–]Nyquil-Junkie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        Too late, he's a rapist now. You don't forgive that shit.

        [–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (3 children)

        Nothing in the redpill cannon says go home and rape your wife. Right now you need to look him in the eye and say you want to be woken before sex and if you say no it's not a fun marriage sex game. Do not delay in doing this. I know it's tough to be confrontational but this has to happen right now. Lots of men get on redpill and misread it or use the ideas to justify other things going wrong in their lives.

        Idk is this what TRP is about

        No.

        Is this a phase?

        Yes, but it may go on for a while and he needs your support. He will probably not go back to being you're old husband but he will exit the anger phase, especially when he get working again and gets some goals in his life.

        Can I talk him out of this?

        No. Attempting to talk or even steer him out of it will only make him worse. Let him spend time with men and encourage him to maybe go on a trip or go camping/adventuring/explore a new hobby. This is not a split thing and no he's not going to cheat on you.

        He wants me to have my IUD removed by the end of the month with the goal of me being pregnant by October/November.

        As much as redpill women and redpill talks about dom and sub roles in relationships bringing a child into a world is never something you should go into with doubt. Do not get pregnant right now, yes he will probably get mad, do not fight with him about it or go out of your way to rub it in that you're not going to have his kid. Just reaffirm that you want to have his children but your not ready. (I am wondering if you not wanting kids is because of his recent changes or because you genuinely want to wait? You need to seriously think about this if you haven't explored it yet.)

        Be prepared to separate if he has anymore transgressions with the sex issues.

        If the sex issues resolve but the marriage starts to slide harder do not eject. Try a short separation first. NOT a VACATION where you hang with party girls that validate you and want to get you laid. Try to find a place alone or with a small number of family and try to avoid spilling everything because they will be forced to support you and he's not there to defend himself. It also makes it awkward for family members that then have to take sides.

        Sometimes a separation can be a much needed wake-up that saves the marriage. Too many people jump to divorce with relationships that could have been saved. All relationships are hard. Men go through lots of existential crises that women don't see but often times we come out of them much stronger then when we went in. You throw away a lot when you just hit the divorce button.

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        We've always been planners- we had a plan for when to have kids, and my issue is the sudden divergence from it. It is just out of character (like everything else).

        I'm definitely not out partying- I'm staying at a long stay hotel right now to avoid involving family/friends, working, and focusing on trying to fix my marriage.

        I don't want to involve family and friends because if we can work this out, I don't want anyone to hold it against him.

        [–]Nyquil-Junkie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Good luck. Keep the IUD.

        [–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I don't want to involve family and friends because if we can work this out, I don't want anyone to hold it against him.

        Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and you're doing the right things. Hang in there and keep us up to date. Feel free to PM if you have any other questions although it seems like you got plenty of advice and recommendations for this thread to work with.

        [–]koiotchka 4 points5 points  (5 children)

        Such a sudden behavior change (would he ever have considered raping you before this??) could indicate something wrong, couldn't it...? Like a brain tumor or mental trauma or something? This is just so bizarre, I'm sorry you're dealing with this OP, and I'm worried for you :/

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        No he wouldn't. It is such a personality shift I think that's why I haven't just left. The things he is wanting from me are opposite of the things we previously enjoyed...

        [–]indivisibleremainder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        it's called ideological possession

        [–]koiotchka 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Yeah, I can understand... I'm glad you're staying somewhere else right now and also that you're willing to try to work through things. I really, really hope he is too. Have you brought up therapy yet? Or even a medical work-up like an MRI or something?

        I wish I could give you a hug.

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I think I am going to ask to speak to him tomorrow. Neither of us will have had work, so we can discuss what exactly we want to do. I'll bring up therapy then.

        [–]koiotchka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Good luck! offers Internet hugs

        [–]sususurro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        You seem a smart woman. Just read what you wrote and think is someone else who is writing. What would be your advice?

        Breakups are always hard, but you have only one life. My advice is you talk with a good therapist that help you put things in perspective.

        And please don't let him behave in such unfair way with you.

        I wish you the best luck.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [removed]

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Nope. I know its tacky to say how much we make, but I wanted to emphasize that his pay cut wasn't changing our lifestyle at all (less than 5% of our income).

        I am a pharmaceutical researcher. I develop new medication. So my performance incentives are for passing benchmarks in drug development.

        [–]Nyquil-Junkie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        He skimmed over trp and now he feels like the failure his is.

        [–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Does not add to the discussion.

        [–]vintagegirlgame -1 points0 points  (3 children)

        A lot being discussed here... I says in your post that you know people will tell you to divorce him, and it seems you're looking here for some insight and alternatives, so my response will be geared towards that and I'll try to include some practical changes to try. You are married and your commitment deserves some time and patience to work through a hard time, so I don't think this is something you need to rush into. Try to think of the bigger picture. Imagine you are looking back 5 or 10 years from now and saying "Wow that was the hardest year of our marriage but I'm so glad we got through that because it was so worth it!" With that image of the future in mind, how can you proceed not to "get your relationship back on track" but to grow it into something even better than it was before? How can you support him to be a better man than he was before he discovered this new knowledge platform?

        First of all the "he took me when I said no" thing needs to be handled. The word rape is such a trigger word. Yes what he did is def a negative thing, but consider that there are "shades of rape." What you experienced isn't quite as traumatizing as some of the other more horrible types of Rape. Yes it's an awful experience and you need to practice certain levels of self care or therapy to heal. But out of respect for women who have experienced the darker shades of rape, you can be grateful that it happened with someone you generally trust, usually consent with, and want to continue having a relationship with. If you are going to choose give him benefit of the doubt (and that's a choice only you can make), you can take the perspective that he's working with something new (almost like a new kink) and he fucked up in how to go about it. You can choose to forgive him, but you must set clear boundaries that it is not ok and that there will be major consequences if it happens again. Forgiveness is also a process and you'll need some support through it so make sure you're gentle with yourself and getting the help you need so that you don't hold it against him. If anything, forgiveness is important to you moving forward with a healthy sexuality regardless of the marriage.

        Know that "swallowing the pill" is indeed a process and it will take time and a lot of patience on your part. It's very much possible for you two to take this journey together. I'm the one who introduced my SO to TRP and I very much encourage him to study it, because as he grows a stronger "frame" it benefits me as well. He doesn't really do reddit, but I got him a copy of The Rational Male and will sometimes send him a Manosphere link. If you want to put in the effort to save your marriage and grow with your man, learn all you can about RPW & TRP (valuable knowledge regardless). Find ways you can support his new philosophies so he can feel like you're still a team and he doesn't feel like he needs to "spin" you. You're his wife, not his plate. So show him that you can be a supportive wife. This doesn't mean quitting your job or getting pregnant. It's an attitude of softness that supports yet diffuses the male ego. It requires extra finesse for a woman who makes more $ to give this support to a man who's struggling in his career. It is emasculating, so find ways to make it easier on him. Let him know that you're a team and a family and that the money you both make goes to that team for him to manage as man of the house. Getting the household in order and relieving him of these chores will give him more time to kick start his career. Since you make more money, simply hire a maid to handle the chores. It will be a minimal cost that will reap maximum rewards. You could hire a chef too to help with the cooking, though I would highly recommend doing at least part of the cooking yourself as it's such a powerful thing for a woman to feed her man. It really makes him feel like a king. Realize that at first you may not feel like catering to him so it may be a "fake it till you make it" situation. But once it starts to soften his aggression, build him up with positive masculinity and improve the relationship, you'll learn love it.

        I would second the advice to encourage him to lead the way in finding a TRP friendly male therapist. He needs a mentor through this phase so he doesn't fuck things up too much while he's experimenting with new knowledge. He needs a man that he can meet in person (not just internet strangers) who he respects and who can guide him.

        Maybe there are some additional outlets for flexing his newly developing masculinity that could benefit him? I'd recommend something physical like a sports team or martial arts. Something to bring him in line with discipline (like having other men whip his ego into shape) and diffuse his male energy so he doesn't take this transition out on you.

        In the end it seems like the root of the problems is indeed his career. It seems like the pay cut and also maybe the environment of the job triggered the depression that led him to find TRP. First of all, be grateful that it's the job that triggered it, not your marriage. What if he were to find a new job instead of you finding a new husband? I'd say jobs (esp "fluid" ones) are more replaceable that wives. Since you make more $, you could encourage him to really take the time to find a job where he feels more empowered (even if the pay isn't very different from his current or previous job). Like you said, it's not like the net $ changed much, more like his perspective of it changed. Encourage him to channel his energy into a career path that is rewarding.

        You know the path of divorce, but you are here looking for something more. Again, imagine the picture of you two in the future, looking back on this period of struggle that was actually an opportunity.

        [–]blushed_babydoll 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Yes what he did is def a negative thing, but consider that there are "shades of rape." What you experienced isn't quite as traumatizing as some of the other more horrible types of Rape. Yes it's an awful experience and you need to practice certain levels of self care or therapy to heal. But out of respect for women who have experienced the darker shades of rape, you can be grateful that it happened with someone you generally trust, usually consent with, and want to continue having a relationship with.

        I'm sorry, u/vintagegirlgame, but I find the above paragraph really disturbing. As far as I know, rape is rape, and the fact that it was done to OP by someone she 'usually trusts and consents to' makes it even worse than if it was done by a stranger or someone she knows but isn't intimate with as she is with her husband, for the very reason that trust -- and love, on her part! -- is involved. Why should she trust him to protect her now and in the future when he has already violated her trust on one of the highest levels possible? Rape is a conscious decision. He clearly doesn't respect her.

        I hope the OP doesn't buy into the 'shades of rape' justification. u/Terra_Lee, please heed most people's advice here and leave before it gets worse. Submission requires trust and respect, and I don't think your husband is worthy of either one at this point.

        [–]Terra_Lee[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        The word rape is such a trigger word. Yes what he did is def a negative thing, but consider that there are "shades of rape.

        The reason I didn't use the word rape is that I feel I could forgive him for what he did, whereas women who were truly raped can't forgive their rapist. I think he is being sexually violent, but I think I could forgive him given time and probably some help working through it.

        Since you make more money, simply hire a maid to handle the chores. It will be a minimal cost that will reap maximum rewards.

        I was thinking the same thing. I don't like cleaning. I don't have a whole ton of time outside of work and really don't want to spend it cleaning by myself. that's why we always did it together. The same thing with cooking- it was time we could spend together. But I guess if we had someone come in, we could spend the time doing something else

        I appreciate your advice. I think I will check out the book

        [–]Nyquil-Junkie 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        I think he is being sexually violent, but I think I could forgive him given time and probably some help working through it.

        If you do, then you are making a foolish and possibly fatal mistake. TRP didn't "make" him violent. He was already and hid it well, or did not have the confidence to act on it.

        There are many thing you can forgive and forget.... sexual violence is not one of them.

        [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (14 children)

        This post has a very strong waft of concern trolling coming from it, but just in case you aren't a troll, I'll make a few points.

        Things have been great- obviously we have problems like any other couple, but overall we have had an incredibly happy marriage.

        This is the first thing that jumped out at me. Many women today share this sentiment because - as a woman - married life is wonderful. You have all the rights and privileges but not the responsibilities. You can nag and make demands and also say no to sex. I'm not saying you do or don't do any of this, it's just an observation of the modern woman.

        The reason TRP was invented was because men were unhappy with the arrangement. The exact arrangement may have differed from marriage to marriage, but the overall theme was very similar - men are still required to live up to traditional male responsibilities but can't expect any of the traditional perks.

        I can't tell you with certainty what your husbands unhappiness stems from, but there's a good chance it has something to do with him earning less than a fifth of what you earn + losing his job and taking a pay cut. No matter what the bottom line is, this may make him feel like less of a man and if he can't think of any other way to be "the man of the house", he will dominate you to feel like he's boss.

        Can I talk him out of this?

        Absolutely! Present him with all the facts and evidence and the most rational explanation for why his words and actions will lead to the demise of your marriage.

        Good luck.

        [–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        concern trolling

        I felt this vibe as well but it's always good to error on the side of assuming the poster is genuine unless there's evidence of the contrary. Unfortunately it's something we have to watch closely for in both subs.

        [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        That's why I answered the post despite that nagging feeling.

        [–]koiotchka 0 points1 point  (6 children)

        May I ask what concern trolling means?

        [–]Cardiscappa 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        [–]autourbanbot 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Here's the Urban Dictionary definition of concern troll :


        A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.


        A concern troll on a progressive blog might write, "I don't think it's wise to say things like that because you might get in trouble with the government." Or, "This controversy is making your side look disorganized."


        about | flag for glitch | Summon: urbanbot, what is something?

        [–]koiotchka 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        And thank you, mister bot :)

        [–]koiotchka 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thank you :)

        [–]IVIaskerade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        [–]koiotchka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Haha now I'm even more confused. Thank you :)

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Terra_Lee[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          said in my post that I am not RPW pretty clearly. That was my question. Got helpful feedback from it (but not really what I was hoping to hear), so admins can take down the post if they think I wasn't being sincere. I dont intend to use Reddit or this blog again.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Terra_Lee[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            If I don't have questions I've just been staring the comments. Do you not get a notification when I like them?

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Red pill rage. It will last about a year. He is angry because his eyes are now opened. You can either ride it out or get a divorce now.

            [–]apolloreign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            As a guy who's been following and living the red pill for more than 5 years now, your husband is doing it wrong. Tell him to look specifically in the subreddit for LTR (long term relationship) red pill advice. Best wishes for the both of you

            [–]Aomicb -1 points0 points  (6 children)

            I hate to be the one to tell you after all you have been through but I think your husband has also been kicked out of his gym and supermarket also :( https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6sq9qz/being_banned_from_places_for_approaching_women/

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            On what basis is this her husband? Did you post in the wrong thread?

            [–]Terra_Lee[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            Thanks, but that isn't my husband. He doesn't work at a grocery. He works at my company.

            [–]Aomicb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Okay, good to know he hasn't got himself into any more trouble.

            [–]Nyquil-Junkie 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            He works at my company

            Oh no... you shat where you eat.

            [–]Terra_Lee[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            you shat where you eat.

            I got him a job there after he lost a job managing a doctors office

            [–]Nyquil-Junkie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Yup as I said.... you shat where you eat.

            You actually did worse.... you provided not only much more income than he did, you provided the job that paid him in comparison, a tiny income.

            It's not your fault he can't handle real life. But I bet, that this really grinds his manly gears.