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[FIELD REPORT]What happens when I deny my husband sex and other thoughts on the Red Pill (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by margerym

My husband and I have the agreement that I can, at any time, deny having sex with him (and visa versa). Before I get more into that I want to express a few things:

  • Sex is important in a relationship. Really important.
  • Sex is important to men. Really important.
  • Sex is more complicated for women but still important to us.

That said knowing all of the above I don't take sex lightly. Meaning "I'm just not in the mood" is a poor excuse to not give your husband affection. Men do better with physical affection, women not so much. This is why it is so easy for women to brush off. "They don't need this because women don't need this in the same way". Not true. Understanding that men and women are different, express themselves differently, "feel" love and affection differently and through different processes, is the cornerstone of Red Pill.

So back to my little story- when I say to my husband "no sex tonight, please" he says "okay". He says "okay" because he gets that I understand the importance of sex and don't take it lightly. He says "okay" because he knows I am not the type of woman to opt out because "yawn I just don't feel like it". He knows I know that denying him affection is as bad as the reverse, is the "big guns" pulled out only for emergencies. He doesn't just say "okay", though, he often adds "everything alright?" for the reasons stated above. "I'm not feeling well." or "I am having a horrible horrible day and I need to cry" With both his response is to cuddle me instead and let me have my emotional dump.

What a misogynist, am I right? Totally Beta.

Actually, it is totally Beta. Which brings me to my next point- married game is different than single game. This has been stated here ad nauseam but apparently it needs to be stated again. You need a healthy dose of Beta in an LTR/marriage to keep it running. This is affection, this is safety, this is another thing women need.

This sub-Reddit is NOT the same as TRP sub-Reddit! Understanding this would save a lot of people a lot of confusion. What the guys over at TRP are looking for is mostly different than what we are and different from what men interested in LTR/marriage are looking for in a Red Pill framework. The way they handle women is not the way we are being handled, is not the way men interested in LTR handle women. It's a different scenario altogether. A lot of their tactics would not work in an LTR because they aren't meant to and visa versa. It's like putting your dirty dishes in a front loader because, well, they both do the washing right?

So my husband Betas out on me and gives me all these tender kisses and hugs while I cry-it-out instead of rocking his world. Then I just end up wanting to rock his world all the more. We feed off of each others affection. It's that simple. And because he is willing to give it to me I am willing to give it to him. That's what sets Red Pill marriages (and more traditional marriages in general) apart from female dominated ones- we value our men and their needs. Contrary to popular belief that doesn't translate into us being forced, coerced, or neglected. Quite the opposite, actually.


[–][deleted]  (32 children)

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[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I agree, beta males are often referred to as "nice guys", so sometimes people confuse kindness with betaness. But the "nice guy" cliché is someone who is being nice because they feel like they have to, they want to get something in return and that's what prompts their niceness. They eagerly let you stomp all over them. This is a man who you don't respect, and doesn't ask for your respect. That in my opinion is what makes a "nice guy" beta. An alpha can show "kindness" without being a "nice guy" because he feels he doesn't have to in order to keep you. He has already established himself into a position of power. He's not going to be nice out of fear of losing you, or fear of making you angry. He shows you kindness because he wants to not because he feels like he has to. Because of that, he can be "kind" without losing the frame of respect.

In short it's not niceness that makes a person a beta, it's their motivation for being nice.

[–]margerym[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

There is a lot of confusion over Alpha, Beta, etc, pretty much because it is used differently depending on the context. I like to think of it this way- a man is Beta if his Beta qualities greatly dominate his Alpha qualities. So a Beta male is very emotional, clingy, weak but Beta qualities; which are love, affection, tenderness, etc; are needed in a relationship to maintain it. What you are looking for is the right mix of Alpha and Beta qualities.

[–][deleted]  (8 children)

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    [–]margerym[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    Ian Ironwood describes Beta in general like this:

    Less dominant modes of behavior, designed to project comfort and security as opposed to sexual attraction. Typically, behaviors designed to inspire the production of the hormone Oxytocin in women.

    Whereas he defines Alpha in general as this:

    Dominant modes or behaviors designed by evolution (or God, depending on what flavor of Kool Aide you like) to inspire raw sexual attraction in a mate.

    So in this case the man is trying to comfort and offer the woman a sense of security vs. trying to get a sexual reaction. He's still in charge, his end goal is just different.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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      [–]margerym[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      You're still confusing being Beta with having Beta traits. A Beta male is a man who has too many Beta traits, someone who is stuck in the provider role in all the wrong ways. Having Beta traits is something completely different; it is taking those beneficial traits and putting them to use not letting them rule him or the situation.

      The same goes for Alpha. For TRP it is a bad thing to bring out Beta traits because they don't want to provide for women, that is not their objective. Offering comfort and security is not necessary. This is why all Alpha all the time is a better tactic for them where in an LTR Alpha and Beta traits are needed.

      The guy from the example is using Beta traits in his marriage to help his wife and the relationship overall.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]margerym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I like this!

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        i agree with everything you said here, but i think the most important aspect of "beta" is LOWER STATUS. in the male pack its lower status than the alpha male, in the family its behavior that indicates he is lower status than his wife..."i cant go to the ballgame, guys, my wife will kill me! we are going to the flower show instead" BETA

        [–]margerym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        That's a good distinction, too. That would make for a man that is Beta because he is allowing hie Beta-ness to rule out by pandering to his wife.

        Pandering = Beta.

        [–][deleted]  (19 children)

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          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children)

          disagree, beta behavior is lower value behavior coming from a place of SUPPLICATION and fear of loss...a man whos confident strong and knows his place as the higher value partner and demonstrates it sufficiently can do almost anything without being "beta"

          a man who cuddles you and begs you never to leave him is being beta, a man who cuddles you because youre sad and dont feel well is being your your husband who loves you

          [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

            bullshit, being affectionate to your wife isnt fear or beta i dont care if everyone stand son their heads and spits golden quarters to say the opposite

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              thanks for the golden quarters

              [–]margerym[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              I would say behavior that is weak done from a position of strength and dominance is neutral not weak.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [–]margerym[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                I understand what you are saying and I certainly don't disagree. I suppose I see it as the act itself being weak but because it comes from a position of strength it becomes neutral and therefore doesn't have the same affects it would if you were weak and being weak.

                Think of a Beta male crying and an Alpha male crying. They offer different emotional reactions, from me at least.

                [–]margerym[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                She would benefit more if he was strong enough to change her emotional state for the better.

                This really depends on the situation. If I was constantly stressed over, say, money he could change that by providing more or handling whatever situation. But if I am sad because a friend just died there is no changing that. No strength in the world could stop me from mourning that. There are times for women that we just need to be loved on just like there are times for men that they just need to be left alone.

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                  [–]margerym[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  You forgot the good cry. It goes before all the other reasoned and effective responses.

                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                      [–]margerym[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      You're mistaken. The evidence is that it is not a good path to take all of the time. This is what makes for a Beta male. Beta males are not what the women here want. But men with Beta traits, are. Conversely, we also don't want men to be all Alpha all the time.

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I also disagree, your definition of what makes a man alpha dehumanizes him to the point that you might as well call him sasquatch because it would make him just as illusive.

                      You make alphas sound as though they are robots with sex being their only programming. They are intuitive to women's needs as well as knowing and owning theirs, that's what makes them the superior male.

                      [–]lord-denning 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                      Being an emotional bedrock for your woman is never beta. Being an emotional sponge, or being uncomfortable with her tears, or trying to get her to change her mood, is beta. The difference can be sutble, but this is the world of emotion, your woman's forte - it's all about subtle.

                      [–]MegMartinson 5 points6 points  (21 children)

                      Everybody is different.

                      I've been RedPill for over 20 years without knowing the term. I've been with my man 20 years. In those years I've never refused him sex. Never.

                      He is a good man. He is a great man! He is Alpha. He is RedPill. At the same time he knows when it is time to put a little Beta into the mix. The few times I've been sick enough where sex was unthinkable (to me). At those times he has never (NEVER) asked for sex. He just knows. He becomes the most loving man and the best "healthcare provider" in the universe.

                      There have been times when I "wasn't in the mood", but he also knows what gets me into the mood. For me, knowing that he wants me does it. Coming out the other side of "not in the mood" sex always makes me feel better. -- There have been a few times when it is just "duty sex". Nonetheless, I participate as enthusiastically as I can with whatever he wants. I don't think he notices any difference and it does not produce any resentment on my part. I am happy to make him happy.

                      A bad day at work? Stress over our parents' failing health? Sex makes me feel loved and reduces the stress.

                      Could I tell him that I refuse to give him sex? Yes, but ... I'd have to be pretty sick or stressed out or something. However than moment has never come up. I doubt it ever will.

                      So, everybody is different. One's threshhold for expressing sexuality varies.

                      [–]margerym[S] 4 points5 points  (20 children)

                      There have been times when I "wasn't in the mood", but he also knows what gets me into the mood. For me, knowing that he wants me does it. Coming out the other side of "not in the mood" sex always makes me feel better.

                      This is a really important point too many miss. It takes a bit for women to get in the mood. But these days we seem to mistakenly think we have to be "in the mood" before anything starts in order for it to be valid or good. This simply doesn't work, though.

                      There is nothing wrong with duty sex, either. Sex is our duty (the trolls are typing furiously over that one!). Of course duty sex all the time is indicative of a bigger issue.

                      A bad day at work? Stress over our parents' failing health? Sex makes me feel loved and reduces the stress.

                      Yes. Sex can be incredibly healing for both parties.

                      The point is to know your own limits and act accordingly.

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (19 children)

                      My only protest to this is that I worry it's not safe to tell someone who has taken the red pill that, "I'm not in the mood for sex" means "I'm not feeling like sex right now, but feel free to convince me otherwise."

                      Sometimes seriously, please, no. I mean it, I am willing to beg for a rain check. When does your SO know when your "no" is "maybe" and when your "no" is "no"? I know some members that would take every time you say "no" as "maybe" if you use the word as that even once.

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (17 children)

                      Unless you're ill, why isn't it?

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (16 children)

                      Why isn't my "no" a "maybe"?

                      Maybe it's been an absolutely horrific day, and the idea of pretending to be really turned on or, even worse, faking an orgasm will just make it worse. Maybe I'd just like to relax and kiss, cuddle, be intimate without having to perform as a woman.

                      I think physical and emotional exhaustion have as much merit as having the flu, especially when I can still give light physical affection.

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (15 children)

                      i think you are confusing the redpill concept of LMR (last minute resistance) as an anti slut defense on the part of women with how even a redpill man would behave in marriage. as part of the FIRST TIME seduction process a girls "no" is often either a shit test or n attempt to weasel out of feeling like a slut for not at least having to be persuaded out of a no. i doubt even the most "redpill" man is thinking like that in an LTR or marriage, unles she has the type of women who continuous shit tests him for sport, in which case he made a big mistake marrying her

                      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (14 children)

                      Or wanting to delay a sexual facet of their relationship, to see if the man will stick around after sex. I think "no" is a big, and important part of that. Just because I want to have sex with you some day doesn't mean I want it right now.

                      But okay, I see your point. It's nice to know that the Red Pill rules bend a little bit in marriage, I hate to think of how many women on this subreddit were faking it 'til they made it, as that seems like a horrific nightly ritual to me.

                      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (13 children)

                      why would i have married someone i have to "fake it til i make it" with every night? its been ten years and if my husbands walks into the room in his "sexytime now robe" with that look on his face i want nothing more than to do it.

                      this isnt a set of rules or a bdsm lifestyle, its a general way of viewing the world and relationships that comports with the reality of human experience for the bulk of people and before the advent of feminism was simply concerned "the way things are" and "conventional wisdom" theres nothing novel or magical about it

                      in "gone with the wind" when scarlett told rhett she didnt want to have anymore babies, meaning she didnt want to have sex anymore, he didnt beat her rape her or pressure her, he simply told her that the world was full of beds and that most of those beds were full of women and reminded her that if he really wanted into her bedroom, no lock would keep him out. when you marry a man its with the intention of monopolizing his sexuality for life if possible, why would you extract this pledge from a man then give him the "im not in the mood" i just have never gotten it

                      [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (12 children)

                      Because you're not "giving him, 'I'm not in the mood'." That implies it's an excuse, or you're deflecting him.

                      This is coming from a recovering nymphomaniac: I can be so sad or angry at the world that I cannot imagine doing something as amazing as sex, right now.

                      Yes, I'm holding the monopoly, but he's not going to go more than a couple days without. Sometimes I need to recoup. Maybe I just got laid off, maybe I'm having a really bad fight with a friend, or news or money or work are stressing me out. Can you cuddle with me for a couple nights, then we can go back to just having sex? The physical intimacy, the love language, is still there for the man to have.

                      "Extracting this pledge" creeps me out as a phrase, I have to admit. It sounds like I tricked a man into monogamy. No, I'm only going to marry someone who is as eager to give that pledge as I am to take it.

                      Also your Gone With the Wind example is the very definition of pressuring. Threatening is pressuring.

                      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children)

                      ok youre a damaged feminist and the red pill isnt for you

                      [–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I worry it's not safe

                      Sorry to pick on a word, but the word "safe" is a weird one to use in a marriage or LTR. If you make good choices in a partner, you are already safe and the partner isn't going to force themselves on you if you don't want it.

                      Also, if you make a good partner choice, you shouldn't ever casually not want sex with them. All my husband has to do is grab me for a 10 second kiss and I melt. I really can't remember that last time I even considered saying no, but I did fall asleep on him recently, LOL.

                      [–]Dokubi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Nice post.

                      [–]crankypants15 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                      So my husband Betas out on me and gives me all these tender kisses and hugs while I cry-it-out instead of rocking his world. Then I just end up wanting to rock his world all the more. We feed off of each others affection.

                      Oh ok, I get it now. Yes I understand this because I've done it with my SO. We all have needs, mine tend to be physical, hers tend to be emotional. But sometimes I just need to throw my woman down and have her, NOW. Just because she's mine. And I want to remind her she's mine. I will mark her as mine and she will carry that mark all day long. No shower after happy fun time.

                      My point was we both give and take, but in different ways.

                      [–]margerym[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                      But sometimes I just need to throw my woman down and have her, NOW. Just because she's mine. And I want to remind her she's mine. I will mark her as mine and she will carry that mark all day long. No shower after happy fun time.

                      Yum.

                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      Ruh roh. I think you're being downvoted for sounding rapey condone-y

                      [–]Zackcid -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                      Nah, just vote bragading by the overly sensitive "you-know-who".

                      [–]MegMartinson 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      You and my man have similar thoughs and feelings on this.

                      Just reading your comment makes me wet. -- I'll take it out on him when I get home!

                      Whew!

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Awesome

                      [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                      TL;DR but when someone doesn't get what they want, they'll eventually go get it somewhere else

                      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                      This sub-Reddit is NOT the same as TRP sub-Reddit!

                      Here's what I see: TRP has single guys and a few who are in LTRS. RPW has a females in LTRs and a few that are single basically feeling out what what they would like for a LTR or like in an LTR (so both internal reflection and external) that seems to reflect a common outlook of this sub. So this one is more LTR focused on both sides of the relationship. So it stands to reason that the subject matter and focus is very different.

                      It would also be understandable that we in LTRs have other halves that may not fit this Alpha/Beta tidy template. But to that I say “He's MY Alpha, to me and that's all that matters. Anyone who questions that can get their head removed by me cause you're not worth HIS time”

                      Just because your other half has these traits doesn't make him a damn bit less. This is the part (along with that the 'attentive' being a bad word) that strikes my temper. Not at you, far from it, FOR YOU. No one has a right to question how someone is to you unless there is clear case of abuse going on ( this goes for males too. Utterly disgusted female on male domestic abuse is downplayed. You know.. since I'm off on one of my signature 'red-head rants' already)

                      I don't tread to TRP because I don't understand it and it's not my thing. It's also not LTR orientated. Just as most posts here that are focused on pre LTR self reflection, I simply don't feel my feedback or viewpoints would be helpful. For example, how to draw males and things like that.

                      I will say..sex is important to me too. Like, REALLY important. So I'm confused by the concepts of 'duty sex'..I've never declined. I've questioned it. He had a chest cold and got frisky. I did question that one.. for 30 seconds. Which is about 30 seconds longer then I question when he makes a pass.. ever. I am kind of wondering if a female part of my brain is broken. I will say I find the concept of withholding sex as a 'weapon' and that's a form of manipulation so a temper raiser for me as well.

                      The way I see it, if he is holding you as you cry, that's no different then giving a backrub cause he's been working or doing something stressful for a long time. It's a form of comfort and positive interaction. But again.. maybe I'm broken. Who knows.