DISCUSSION"Incredible Women Often Have the Worst Dating Lives" or Strong Independent Woman Who Don't Need No Man (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor

I came across this article on my Facebook page, and naturally it reminded me of the relationship dynamics we talk about on this subreddit. It outlines the qualities of "incredible" women that make them undateable. Here are a few of the qualities and my translations:

Intimidating (Bitchy): have BRF, make no effort to smile or be pleasant during any interaction.

Independent and won't sacrifice for anyone (Selfish): can't manage to skip yoga class to accommodate someone else's schedule.

Built in A-hole repellent (Bitch): see above

They Have Real Goals (Shallow Career Woman Who Can't Form Intimate Bonds): Her career takes precedence over everything in her life, including relationships, including you. Be prepared to be neglected and be told you're not worth it.

They call guys on their bullshit (Humourless Bitch): thinks laughter is weakness.

They're super picky because they know their worth (Unrealistic Expectations): wouldn't take Ryan Gosling because he doesn't have a PhD.

There are a few more on the list, but not all are delusional misinterpretations. This is one of many articles I've seen that takes negative qualities and spins them as absolute positives, all the while insulting the masculinity of all men. And then they wonder why they're single.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 23 points24 points  (25 children)

It was difficult to read through that nonsense. I stopped at number 8 because that's where the essence of the problem lies. The rest is just details.

In number 8, the reason is because these super special gals are focused on goals which are more important than finding love. And herein lies the problem.

When establishing a union between husband and wife, the spouse needs to be the number one priority in the world! Period! This goes for men and women. If there are any goals - as lofty as they may be - which precede or supercede your spouse, your spouse is now in second place behind said lofty goal. If there's a laundry list of such goals (as these women seem to have), then the spouse, or in this case, the potential spouse is coming in at tenth place or maybe even twentieth place or further down the line.

Who in their right mind would enter into a romantic relationship in which they're tenth, twentieth, thritieth or hundredth place?


No one but an utter loser! But these women are utterly disgusted by utter losers so the answer is no one at all, hense being single forever!

[–]est-la-lune 13 points14 points  (5 children)

Number 8 bugs me SO much.

I think women should have their own money for economic reasons. But, my career goals aren't the only part of who I am. They happen to offer a great salary, benefits, and job security. But they're nothing more than a means to an end: money my future spouse and I can save and invest, use to travel, give to charity, etc. To build memories and a life together, because your career should never be your life.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Yes! I also don't get why the whole feminist branch decided that work=real goals and love=silly goals. But then in the same breath they talk about the patriarchy and its role in capitalism and how evil corporations are, and the glass ceiling, and the pay gap, and micro aggressions, and being too busy, etc. So...everything's terrible?

I honestly feel bad for my ultra feminist friends. None of them seem happy.

[–]est-la-lune 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe I'm biased, but I get the impression that people who follow their dreams into a mountain of student loan debt probably end up miserable because they have no outlet and don't make good enough money to have any (cool) hobbies.

I also stopped dating men who share my career goals for this reason. Work stays at work.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Capitalism, evil corporations, you mean the very things that allow feminists to have a job that supports themselves haha...

[–]Willow-girl 0 points1 point  (1 child)

LOL, progressives face some terrible cognitive dissonance here! Everyone wants to hate on corporations, while at the same time working at a good job with full benefits. And perish the thought of becoming a self-employed entrepreneur! Way too difficult. LOL

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gosh seriously. I was a "grassroots freelance artist" for a few years and hated it. I don't care about making "my personal brand" and using my own seed money for everything and struggling to pay for health insurance. Now I'm working for the government and getting benefits out of my ears - bring on the evil corporations!

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 11 points12 points  (5 children)

DAE relationships are for silly girls and only career and travel matter? /s

Deathbed regrets are always: wish I had worked less and spent more time with loved one.

So done with modern idea that loving and being loved is for pathetic people. At this point figuring out a suitable husband is my work; my job is just a day job.

Oh, lol, and don't tell me men run away from "intense lovers." Decidedly untrue.

[–]Banincoming 4 points5 points  (4 children)

And for many career women the bitter regret is "I wish I had kids".

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's sad I know. I feel bad because honestly it isn't easy to resist an e tire culture brainwashing and shaming you about this. Anyone who saw the light is lucky really.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Lol, no. I love my child free life. I can't stand kids.

[–]Willow-girl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sushi beat me to it! No way. That part of my anatomy is reserved for recreational purposes only!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, that's what I always say!

[–]Willow-girl 5 points6 points  (6 children)

When establishing a union between husband and wife, the spouse needs to be the number one priority in the world! Period! This goes for men and women.

I'm going to respectfully disagree.

I'll preface this by saying that one's primary emotional commitment ought to be to one's spouse ... that's a given. But if you're going to accomplish things in this world, sometimes --realitically -- your romantic relationship may have to take a backseat, at least temporarily.

Entertainers may spend months on tour or on set. Businesspeople sometimes have to travel extensively. Military members endure deployments (we have an example of such right here on this forum). Researchers and engineers may put enormous amounts of time into projects. Even farmers work long hours at planting and harvest time.

We certainly don't expect men in these roles to be celibate, and it's unkind and unrealistic to expect it of women, IMO. It's important for people to figure out the role they're willing and able to play in relationships. Some are better suited to being the star of the show, others as helpmeets. Most probably fall somewhere in between, trading off depending on the circumstance. What's important (again, IMO) is that you find a partner whose wants, needs and abilities complement your own, and vice versa.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm going to respectfully disagree.

I'm trying to find the disagreement.

I agree that sometimes other things will have to come first. However, this should only be in time sequence and only temporarily. For example - the baby needs to be nursed/changed/whatever, now. Doing that for the baby prior to tending to the needs of the husband, isn't prioritizing the baby over the husband. Doing that for the baby instead of tending to the needs of the husband, is prioritizing the baby over the husband. This is what many new fathers resent. When their wives become consumed with the baby to the point that there's no time or space left for the husband. The husband feels like he was dropped down to the bottom of the list of priorities and this is how many marriages begin to fall apart post birth.

A person who has to do XYZ for the business is a temporary thing.

The common denominator between both examples is that they're both quantitative in nature. Qualitatively speaking, the spouse is first and this is reiterated repeatedly (more so than usual) in the ways that couples express love to one another. The moment that anything else comes prior to your spouse in a qualitative measure, is the moment they'll feel relegated behind that thing.

OTOH, not everyone is okay with the same levels of temporary relegation even if it's just in quantity. This is why some people can't be married to businessmen who constantly travel the world while others can. A couple needs to work these things out early on.

[–]neveragoodtime 7 points8 points  (4 children)

A man pursues a career to attract a woman. A woman pursues a career to replace a man. Feminists never tried to hide this, they didn't tell women to get a career to be a better partner, to learn teamwork and compromise, to provide for their husbands and kids. They were told to get a career because women shouldn't depend on a man and she should take care of herself. If you put your relationship in the backseat to anything, you don't have a real partnership. You have something that's convenient for you until it's not.

[–]Willow-girl 1 point2 points  (3 children)

By your logic -- which apparently holds that people can have either a relationship or a marriage, but not both -- all men who are married or aspire to the state ought to quit their jobs as well as do ... what? I suppose the happy couples can just live on love, lol.

And I'm old enough to understand why feminists advised women not to be dependent upon men: because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Not all women from earlier generations had good husbands, and woe to the ones who to support themselves!

[–]neveragoodtime 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No, that wasn't the logic I was using. I was stating that men don't have to quit their jobs to get married because nature and society tell men they must have jobs to support their family. These are good, altruistic reasons for men to pursue careers. However, nature, society, and you tell women that they must have jobs to support themselves, because you say men will be corrupted by the financial power they hold over their wife. Very strange mindset for a RP forum.

WOMEN, go get careers because the husband you agree to marry might not be good enough and and become corrupted with power over you! He might expect you to do things you don't want to and independent women should never have to do anything for other people's benefit! That only proves they are being emotionally abused and oppressed!

In here, we teach women how to love and trust their partners, in order to build good husbands. Not keep one foot out the door in case he's not good enough.

[–]Willow-girl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He might expect you to do things you don't want to and independent women should never have to do anything for other people's benefit!

Au contraire; I believe people who love each other should, well, love each other and take care of each other! But being financially independent keeps a relationship honest (on both sides), IMO. I've seen the alternative and oftentimes it isn't pretty.

I'll add a bit more (I was tired last night): When you rely on someone for your daily bread, that person becomes your boss, and naturally (perhaps subconsciously) you begin to filter your communications with them to reflect that reality. Just as you probably wouldn't give your boss at work your unvarnished opinion 100% of the time, you won't be entirely honest and forthcoming with your mate. Personally, I prefer an authentic relationship that isn't tainted by this dynamic. A mutually beneficial partnership between two self-sufficient equals is my gold standard, relationship-wise. YMMV.

[–]dahle44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"And I'm old enough to understand why feminists advised women not to be dependent upon men: because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Not all women from earlier generations had good husbands, and woe to the ones who to support themselves!" I am not so sure about this-you are a bit younger than me-however my experience has found that most guys are a bit threatened by a higher paid woman spouse-partner. I agree that having a separate acct for the female is important-but mostly for her own ego. I do not think it is wrong for women to be more family oriented-as this is what happens to the women in a family-working full time, rearing children and having a happy male spouse is hard work. I wish I could of stayed home full time with the kids-even part time-add a child that has a problem-ADHD and then the family is under even more duress. The Women's Movement was a double edged sword-it is Difficult to "have it all"-unless you are so wealthy you can have in home help-and that is unattainable for most families-The husband needs to come first-no matter what-then the children-then the job and unfortunately most employers want the job to come first. Children suffer because they are not "mothered"-we have 2 generation of self centered brats who do not respect anything-and cannot handle any stress-I shudder for how our generation will be treated in 20 years.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Absolutely! I meant to include that one in my explanation. Will edit!

I completely agree though. No family (spouse and SO included) should ever come after work on your list of priorities. People are the most important, and you should honor and cherish your spouse, not tell him that he's less important than the quarterly report.

[–]the_baumer 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I'm in early stage of going back to school to get into a healthcare and I'm so not looking forward to having to devote a lot of my time to studying instead of with my boyfriend. He will always come first to me, it just will be hard and I have no idea how to make it better. It's already starting to be an issue since I started taking some pre-req classes.

[–]InfiniteAscent 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Remember you're going back to school for YOU, and you should come first before anyone else. Your BF comes second. Not tenth or twentieth, but second to you. Or am I mistaken that this tenet of TRP should apply to RPW?

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't think the self was factored into the hierarchy. I agree and disagree though when it comes to you coming first. On one hand, I fully believe that one's mental and physical well-being are paramount to being a supportive partner/mother etc (something I've learned the very hard way :( ), but on the other hand I believe sacrifice is critical to strong intimate relationships. And that involves being able to put others first at times. Like everything, it's a balance. Also, TRP isn't usually geared toward men wanting to be in LTRs.

[–]InfiniteAscent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most of TRP applies to MRP too. There are lots of guys in TRP that would LTR if they weren't afraid or jaded. Sorry, they wouldn't call it that, they just don't believe it's worth the risk. They say marriage is TRP on hard mode.

[–]the_baumer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am going for me but I've let him know that's it's also for us too. Being in healthcare will offer me more job security and a chance to relocate for both of us. He is supportive and without him I probably wouldn't have tried. He's a risk taker and I am not, and leaving one career for another is a huge risk for me.

[–]Moral_Gutpunch 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Independent shouldn't mean jackass. We should all be capable of being strong independent women. We just choose to be strong women with loving partners and we show we love them back.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Agreed. Honestly I do consider myself a strong independent woman, but I definitely think I am way better off with my good man.

[–]Moral_Gutpunch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm sick of 'strong independent woman' being claimed by people proud to be a bitch. Just be normal. And nice.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

Can I add in the ones you didn't do? Because this article is hilarious.

They're a little weird To me this just means you have horrendous fashion sense/hygiene. Guys love weird senses of humor and I've yet to see a guy get turned off by a niche hobby or interest, weird means gross.

They're intense They are absolutely certain that their way is the only way to do something and that if their directions are not followed the entire world will fall apart. They take everything extremely seriously and do not accept the opinions of others.

They're way more mature than most Mature means bitter and cynical right? Flirtatious, never, too mature for that. Let's a man be a man, never, too mature for that. Let's a guy feel needed and part of her life...never, she's way too mature for that. Way too mature to let a small inconsistency go too, it's much better and more mature to correct a guy any time he's wrong about anything. So mature.

They love the hardest You know that girl who went on 2 kinda sorta drinks and hookup dates with Chad? Well now she's madly in love with him and thinks he loves her because he told her he was pretty right before they had sex. Now she's texting and calling him like crazy. She just loves the hardest, that's totally the problem.

They're actually the ones guys have a hard time finding Yeah, you know what guys never ever notice? Hot girls who are nice to them and treat them well. It's like men have hot girl blindness! Sometimes I just walk naked down the street holding a freshly baked pie, it's like being invisible!!!

This piece is so weird because it's anti woman but also anti man. The implication in this article is that no female behavior is negative but also that men basically can't handle anything.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Hahaha hot girl blindness! Hilarious. I agree that it is not only counterproductive for women but is also very anti-man. Literally any failure in the woman's life is because a man somewhere just "can't handle it."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right? It's so insulting to everyone involved. And if my comment rubs you the wrong way, that's not your fault, it's THE PATRIARCHY!

P.S. Who is the patriarchy?

[–]Ariel125 2 points3 points  (1 child)

spot on!! I love this!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha, thanks!

[–]hot-breakfast 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've been married seven years and I still have absolutely no idea what my wife means when she uses the word "mature."

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Oh wow, just had to add this because I got curious about the author and it's soooo sad, you can click on her author link on the piece if you want to see all of her stuff. I think this is a pretty telling lineup of article titles that really shows how feminist women struggle to tout the party line while dealing with their own real emotions and what they actually want. It's sort of heartbreaking.

A list of her recent pieces:

If You Threaten My Independence, We're Never Going To Work Out

11 Things I Want In A Relationship That I'm Embarrassed To Admit

10 Reasons I'm In Absolutely No Rush To Settle Down

If You Do Any Of These Things You'll Lose Me

I Don't Trust Easily, And Neither Should You

I'm Worried I've Ruined Myself For Love

Screw Relationship Goals- I Want Life Goals

Why Do We Settle When We Know We Deserve Better?

To My Rebound - I Used You, But I'm Not Sorry

8 Ways Hookup Culture Is Destroying Dating

It's like mental whiplash. This poor girl has no idea what the hell is going on.

[–]bowie747 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Hookup culture is destroying dating. Everything else screams insecurity.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Agreed. She's just so lost and it makes me sad. I feel like she's probably a decent human being but she's just been fed so much BS that she's floundering instead of finding a nice guy who will actually make her happy (and making herself someone a nice guy would want).

[–]bowie747 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The whole state of affairs makes me a little sad. I want to fight the good fight and maintain the foundations of society by getting married and starting a family, but everybody is so lost and confused and hostile it almost seems like a lost hope.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The best thing we can do is lead by example, do what makes us happy, and then spread that happiness. I know you know that and I'm not trying to lecture, it's hard for me to watch this dynamic play out too. I feel like the best I can do is just support my friends and give them honest advice when they ask for it.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Those articles...the lady doth protest too much, I think. I hope she can get out of those beliefs.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh my gosh, that is so sad. The really depressing part is that, I think, with a whisper, any one of us could answer the real question they have--"Why am I alone?" Of course, it would take much longer to fix all of those issues. I don't much like feminists, but I still hate to see how much their ideology makes them suffer.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is specifically why I don't "hate" feminists the way many people do. I can't hate someone who I have compassion for, and I can't be anything but empathetic towards people who are actively thwarting their own futures based on everything they've been taught (from parents to teachers to bosses to friends). I feel awful for them, because they're not happy and most of them never will be, and the worst part is they're just doing what their entire world tells them to do. It's sad.

[–]bowie747 5 points6 points  (10 children)

It's very simple actually.

Women won't date down. They want someone better than them. So the power-driven career woman has significantly less options than the cutie coffee shop girl.

Also men don't care much about women's careers.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Exactly. And as women rise in their careers, particularly in their 30's and 40's when they're getting promoted, their SMV/RMV is plummeting at the exact same time as the pooler of "more successful" men is getting smaller and smaller.

I disagree that men don't care much about women's careers. I think that most educated and successful men prefer a woman who is also successful and educated. But they're not demanding a partner in Big Law or a corporate executive. A teacher or a nurse or a mid-level businesswoman is perfectly within the "dateable" range for a top-quality man.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Exactly. A cousin of mine (age 40) is a big deal lawyer and makes upwards of $400k a year. He married a woman (age 36) with a very respectable career in HR who made around $90k a year. She has a masters degree, she's stunning, speaks 3 languages fluently, likes to cook and clean, keeps fit, and basically is fine with his demanding schedule and running the rest of their life. My cousin never would have married a freeloader or uneducated and uncultured woman, but he also didn't need a heavy hitter CEO lady. He doesn't need a woman who makes $400k a year. He needs a woman who can fit into his lifestyle, get along with his friends and colleagues, and handle the stuff he doesn't want to handle. After about 6 months of marriage she quit her job to be a housewife and they have been happy ever since.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Yep. I see this same scenario played out again and again at a variety of income levels. Men don't demand high-stakes CEOs, but I think most want to marry a woman who has shown at least intelligence and culture on par with their own.

[–]The-os 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I wonder when this message will get around more.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think the message is understood backwards. Everybody knows that successful men are most likely going to marry women slightly or substantially less educated and wealthy than themselves.

But I think many women have trouble accepting the flip-side - admitting that if you're a lawyer you're not going to want to marry a mechanic, which seems like an anti-feminist double-standard.

I firmly believe that women can and should pursue high-powered careers if they feel passionate about them. I think there just needs to be more education about the trade-offs that will lead to in their personal and family life, and the concessions they may need to make when choosing a mate.

[–]The-os 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I agree. Especially about the latter part. Right now there is too much a focus on getting everything you want while that is not possible.

[–]Willow-girl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think there just needs to be more education about the trade-offs that will lead to in their personal and family life,

I agree! I have seen a few professional women crash and burn, career-wise, after becoming mothers. I think they underestimated how difficult it would be to juggle both roles. This can wreak havoc in a family if certain decisions (i.e., home purchase) have been predicated on the expectation of two incomes.

[–]Willow-girl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women won't date down. They want someone better than them. So the power-driven career woman has significantly less options than the cutie coffee shop girl.

That may be changing. An increasing number of women earn more than their husbands. Societal change doesn't happen overnight, but one wonders if 'career women' will eventually come to appreciate the benefits of having a traditional SAH spouse.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)


[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Would we say she's likeable? Personally I think she comes across like a self-important witch.

I contrast Coulter with someone like Diane Sawyer, who was a strong, successful woman, but was married to her husband until his death. Even Kellyanne Conway (shudder) has been married to her successful husband for a long time and they appear to have a healthy, loving relationship.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah true. The Ann Coulters of the world are very valuable to us all. This is only a problem if the Ann Coulters really want a loving relationship, in which case they will need to adjust and make sacrifices in their work lives.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I don't think she's at all likable. She's very aggressive and domineering. She speaks in a constantly condescending and all-knowing tone and her facial expressions/physical expressions are equally condescending/argumentative. I think someone like Dr. Laura is a better example. She's a professional who earned a doctorate, published multiple books, and has been married since the mid-80s. She's a trusted authority in her field, but she doesn't seem instantly defensive.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's true, those are all good points and I'm definitely not trying to hate on her. I think professionally she is a great role model, I guess I could just see a lot of men being a bit turned off by her media persona, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

    [–]EvigSoeger 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Incredible women = Self-absorbed snowflakes.

    Feminish: They’re intimidating.

    English: They're Narcissistic and believe that "but I'm a talented/successful woman" is a valid excuse for behaving like a tool.

    Feminish: They’re independent AF and won’t sacrifice that for anyone.

    English: They're Narcissistic and expect Chad to be their footstools.

    Feminish: They have built-in a**hole repellent.

    English: They're Narcissistic and won't tolerate anyone not kissing their asses.

    Feminish: They call guys out on their bullsh*t.

    English: They're Narcissistic know-it-alls, oblivious to the fact that they're a chore to interact with.

    Feminish: They’re a little weird.

    English: They're Narcissistic and believe that "but I'm a talented/successful woman" puts them above the unwritten laws of social interaction.

    (Words of wisdom: They don’t need a guy to approve of them, that’s for sure.)


    Feminish: They’re super picky because they know their worth.

    English: They're Narcissistic and can't get it through their heads that they're far from being perfect.

    Feminish: They’re intense.

    English: They're Narcissistic loudmouthed wallflowers, in dire need of being told to STFU.

    Feminish: They have real goals.

    English: They're Narcissistic and expect a LTR to be all play, no work.

    Feminish: They're way more mature than most.

    English: They're Narcissistic and have to project their insecurities on everyone else.

    ( Women who have a strong head, a good attitude, and a poised way of carrying themselves have this admirable maturity about them that’s rare. They don’t gossip, dwell on negativity, or care about what others think of them. They don’t get their worth from guys telling them they’re hot, nor do they need to post fifteen selfies a week to feel good about themselves. They like who they are, and any guy who shows the slightest bit of immaturity will never stand a chance.)

    Just like that.

    Feminish: They love the hardest.

    English: They're Narcissistic and expect to be praised for even the smallest of things.

    Feminish: They’re actually the ones that guys have a hard time finding.

    English: They're Narcissistic and want Chad to behave like an orbiter for them and only them.

    [–]Ariel125 6 points7 points  (5 children)

    this is so spot-on! I read [somewhere] that intelligent, successful American men more and more are dating/marrying Asian or foreign women because there is none of this feminist BS with them. They keep up their physical appearance and truly respect their husband.

    I actually tell my brother that all the time-- he's single and makes 6-figures, is a very nice guy, and is constantly complaining about women. I point out how they don't respect him, and with how successful he is and what he can bring to the table, what are they offering except entitlement?

    [–]Rivkariver2 Star 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I've read a lot about this. I'm very lucky to have been influenced by recent immigrants in my family. I always thought I was a weirdo because I'm terrible at getting uppity about things. I actually need to work on communications a bit. But yeah, I think we modern American ladies should take a hint from some other cultures. Even in some feminist cultures, their deal is that being a woman is great, not to hate men and feel disadvantaged.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Just an off-shoot of that first point but a lot of the American-raised Asian men I've talked to have expressed dissatisfaction with American-raised Asian women for the same reasons American men are dissatisfied with white/latina/black women. I'm inclined to believe it's just an American values problem.

    [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    As an Asian-American girl, I can confirm that many idealize white American girls and try to be like them to assimilate. I don't live in the US anymore and I've found my natural femininity and traditional values are easier to live by. When I did live in the US, it was so difficult to stand by my own around my loud aggressive liberal friends who talk very fast and over you.

    I have a Taiwanese friend who grew up in Taiwan but went to boarding school in England, and she's a bit more aggressive and career oriented like British girls now. It's totally environment. She also has a lot of Italian friends and she tries to act like them (talkative, passionate, emotional).

    It's the fact that you are different in a foreign country, so you try to fit in by acting like what you see. This is what happens to Asian-American girls. Because we are not raised like this in the home.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I've seen a lot of that as well. Upholding the modern American feminist as an ideal--as something to strive for. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to come to a foreign country where one might not know the language or other cultural context, and to suddenly be swept up by American girls claiming "your culture is oppresive to women." How can anyone refute that? Especially a young girl. It's a damn shame, and I'm glad women on this sub are seeing this new culture for what it is.

    [–]FriendFrog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    They're super picky because they don't know their worth (Unrealistic Expectations)

    Fixed that for you.