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INSIGHTFULA Plate is the equivalent of a Female Beta Orbiter – How to not be a plate (ladyimperium.wordpress.com)

submitted by LadyLumen


[–]stilllearningsed 10 points11 points  (16 children)

I’m going to say something to the ladies reading this blog that will make the guys at The Red Pill hate me. You do not want to be a plate.

Just the ones still in the anger phase. I think the rest of us wish there were more feminine women worthy of an LTR around.

Solid guide. As a guy only interested in spinning while working on myself at the moment, you hit most of my hallmark behaviors for keeping my sex and social life separate.

So with metaphors aside, my advice is that you should know a guy for at least 6 months before you have sex with him. You can make out – you can do other things. But if you give it away too early, you’ll become a plate.

I'm curious if by 'know a guy' you mean date him for 6 months or simply know him socially. I've admitted I'm not looking for anything serious at this point, so I may be a bad reference point but, I would never make it 6 months of monogamous dating with zero sex, even if other sexual activities were on the table. I think I might be able to make it 3 months if I were actively seeking an LTR and found a girl following your steps to be a lady.

If he leaves you for not having sex with him immediately – truth is he probably wasn’t planning to stick around anyways.

Spot on, that's my current MO. Three dates without hooking up means I'm not contacting her again because she's either looking for something more serious than I would offer or she isn't sexual enough for me. I'm not going to waste my time on a mismatch either way.

There have been a few exceptions, all girls that were markedly more feminine than the norm and that feminine energy was enough to keep me around without sexual culmination. I'm assuming this is how I'll end up in a monogamous relationship.

[–]LadyLumen[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I've admitted I'm not looking for anything serious at this point

And that's exactly why my 6 month rule works. If you're ready to peace out after 3 months no sex, than this shows that you're not ready to have a serious relationship with the person in question.

I guess I should have elaborated though. I'm saying the 6 months where there is romantic chemistry between the people involved. Even if you weren't technically dating at a certain point, if you were sending flirty text messages or whatever, that's technically in the timeline.

I should probably also say that blow jobs, hand jobs and making out are allowed. Just no dick to vagina sex for 6 months.

Thanks for reading my guide.

[–]stilllearningsed 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you're ready to peace out after 3 months no sex, than this shows that you're not ready to have a serious relationship with the person in question.

I'm with Humankeg on this one, good luck getting a high value man to stick around this long, assuming a monogamous dating situation. We're used to getting sexually sated and the novelty of being denied will wear out long before 6 months. If you're saying YOU don't have sex with him for 6 months without requiring monogamy from him, I can see that working.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [–]LadyLumen[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I like that. Don't put all your cards on the table at once.

    I think the same goes emotionally. Don't tell a man your life story all at once, keeping part of yourself somewhat mysterious makes you more interesting.

    [–]TDCRedPill 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    It's a common strategy, but please be prepared for the possibility of backfiring, and realize that the LTRs are the only ones it can/will backfire on.

    The problem I see is that it's too easy to see it as negotiated desire, not actual desire. If you won't S the D without a nice dinner, it certainly makes me believe that you don't actually want to S the D. If no buttsex without a ring, how am I supposed to believe you want buttsex? And if I didn't think you wanted it, why the hell would I ever do it?

    And when the story of past buttsex without rings and dick sucking without dinner comes up, I'll be sitting there hearing about you made a previous mistake you don't want to make again. You WANTED to S his D, and wanted buttsex, with him. You wanted to S the D and buttsex with me+dinner+ring.

    For people with a TRP slant, it's pretty conclusive that we wouldn't be enough for you in an LTR based on that; a past alpha unleashed these desires in you that I can't bring out without a price tag, and I don't place second.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]TDCRedPill 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      I agree on every point; it definitely should be at your pace with your comfort; Im not advocating anything else.

      Im not entirely certain what is unsettling to me. I seem to keep thinking of the Chris Rock bit on Bring the Pain:

      00:46:53 "Ok, I'm gonna fuck him now, but I won't suck his dick for two weeks." 00:46:56 "All right, I'm gonna suck his dick now, but I won't lick his balls till next month." 00:47:00 "All right, I'm gonna lick his balls now, but I won't lick his ass till next year!"

      I'd much rather it be about comfort and connection, like you. But something is unsettling to me and I doubt Im able to express it effectively right now.

      [–]vintagegirlgame 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I think this kind of strategy works best if the girl is somewhat less experienced sexually, and holds off trying new kinks until it's a serious commitment with a man she sees fit for her final fantasy (aka marriage). Then it is a special experience she has only had with her BF.

      To be lewdly specific, I have been in serious LTRs before, but my current SO is the only one I have ever had anal with, the only one I have learned to deep throat, the only ass I've ever licked, the only one I have used toys with, the only one I've experimented with tantra and the only one I've had a threesome with. That's not I say I was a complete prude with my previous LTRs, I have always been highly sexual and we had amazing sex and lots of it, but I did not expand my menu or experiment with these men. Only my current SO and I have that level of depth, trust and desire and it definitely makes the sex in our relationship more special and even after 5 years we are still escalating.

      If a very sexually experienced woman tries withholding more advanced kink it could backfire as trying to negotiate desire.

      [–]Happyhappyjoyjoy123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Are you married to him or engaged?

      Was the threesome with another woman?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]stilllearningsed 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        It's hard to make examples because this is more about attitude than acts. In my head it often comes down to thinking of her as a girl rather than a woman. This is just a personal classification of those words because 'girl' is simpler than feminine and 'woman' is simpler than non-feminine.

        Women have life experience and thus baggage. They tend to let that baggage show by holding back more and testing more consciously. Women use more frowns and smug smirks than genuine smiles and giggles. Women feed on my energy but, don't feed it back to me, they are draining. Women are guarded.

        Girls are still excited to be living life and bring that exuberance to our interactions. They smile, laugh and giggle more and it isn't forced. Their tests are simpler and often unconscious. They feed off my energy but, then feed it back to me, creating a loop that builds rather than drains. Girls are open.

        It really, for me, boils down to a default positive energy vs a default negative energy. This doesn't mean girls are all sunshine, it just means the baseline is in a better place.

        There are some easy indicators. A girl that shows up in pants/shorts more often than a dress/skirt is less likely to be feminine. Knowing how to cook is a positive indicator. Consistently loud/brash is a negative indicator.

        With that said, it isn't an age thing. I've dated girls in their 30s and women in their early 20s.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]noheaking 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Most RPW wouldn't go for the guys that are on TRP. Mainly because most men on TRP are not looking for LTRs or marriage, which is the goal of a RPW. The men that RPW are dating/married to have probably never heard of TRP, they are just naturally red pill.

          Would both be able to identify the RP traits and thus a potential LTR?

          If the men and women of TRP/RPW practiced what they preached then it would be pretty easy to identify those traits because the majority of their gender doesn't exhibit them.

          Would it turn into a FWB for both sides if the exchange is purely sex and common beliefs?

          A FWB relationship would be a sign a woman isn't actually a RPW so that would never happen. Having common beliefs would be the last reason a FWB relationship would occur because a RPW would know that becoming a plate destroys her chance for getting commitment from him.

          Would one party be too quick to call the shots and lose a potential 'node' within their social network as a result of relatively 'phenomenal' behaviour?

          RP men call the shots, RP women help their man achieve them.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          A FWB relationship would be a sign a woman isn't actually a RPW so that would never happen. Having common beliefs would be the last reason a FWB relationship would occur because a RPW would know that becoming a plate destroys her chance for getting commitment from him.

          Great response all around.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          It doesn't make me angry either. I knew my wife for a year before having sex with her. That's why I started an LTR with her in the first place.

          [–]stillnoturday 12 points13 points  (37 children)

          It amazes me that even here you ladies refer to sex as a commodity to be traded.

          If a girl treats me like a dog and only gives me a "treat" if I'm good, I wouldn't stick around long. Most guys see through this behavior, stop thinking it is a prize to be won because it isn't and if it was it wouldn't be first prize.

          I actually agree with most of the other things you say but that one part stuck in my side. You said it best "act like a lady", that is honestly the best advice.

          [–]LadyLumen[S] 7 points8 points  (36 children)

          It's more that when a woman gives it out free and easily to anyone who wants it, that makes her less desirable in the eyes of a quality man.

          [–]stillnoturday 4 points5 points  (35 children)

          I never said give it freely, selection is the key. Look at it this way lets say I met a girl on tinder/okc/pof somewhere like that you think I'm going to wait 6 months when I could just next and get it elsewhere.

          My point is if you think you allowing him access to your vagina is the sole means by which you have to keep a quality man, you are selling yourself short and doomed to fail.

          [–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (9 children)

          Look, you guys can't have it both ways. Don't tell women not to be sluts and rack up notch counts and then castigate them for trying to withhold sex a LITTLE bit until they at least think there is a chance of an LTR/marriage. This is untenable. It's not a "reward", it is the ONLY way a modern woman can protect herself from racking up a notch count while dating, period. Should a man buy a woman a diamond ring on a 1st date? No, that's for commitment too.

          [–]LadyLumen[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I agree with this. If every woman had sex with all of the boyfriends she had after just two weeks or a month of knowing him, than their partner counts would be a A LOT higher. As a female in my late 20's, my sex count is 3, but I've had way more than three boyfriends in my life.

          [–]SirNemesis 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          It's the alphamasculine imperative. That women will be very discerning and save themselves until they meet the alpha male and then throw caution to the wind and hope he doesn't pump and dump her after she sleeps with him on the first date.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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            [–]Happyhappyjoyjoy123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            How do you know he won't be trading "up" in a year or two for a fresher tighter younger less used chick?

            Is your end game to spend your time before you hit the wall in his bed and then after that you settle for whatever beta will take his leftovers?

            [–]InferiousX 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Look, you guys can't have it both ways. Don't tell women not to be sluts and rack up notch counts and then castigate them for trying to withhold sex a LITTLE bit until they at least think there is a chance of an LTR/marriage.

            Two things:

            1: That really wasn't his main point. But on that note, the mentality is such that some level of discernment from the woman is certainly desired when looking at longer term potential. No guy wants to be in a relationship with a girl who'll jump on the first cock to buy her a drink.

            2: I think more of the point of OPs comment was that look at sex as a commodity is an extremely one-dimensional way of approaching the dating paradigm. If a woman wants a quality man in her life, but she's agonizing over how and when she's going to barter sex then there's a huge problem. And that problem is usually that other than sex, she doesn't bring anything else to the table. If a woman's only card in the game is vagina access, but she wants a good man, she'll have to work on herself a bit more and offer more value than that.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

            No one has been saying "only" but him

            [–]InferiousX 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            The mentality of using sex as a bargaining chip many times implies such.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            No, this is a misunderstanding. We arent saying to use it as a bargaining chip. It is an ATTEMPT by women to protect themselves from being used for sex and racking up a notch count

            [–]stillnoturday 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Again selection. No one is saying have it both ways.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (24 children)

            Which is why we encourage women to better themselves inside and out and have more to offer than just a pretty face/body. The 'negotiation' between the RPW sexual strategy and the RP male sexual strategy can be tricky and it's up to every individual 'pair' to navigate the details. Women have to figure out what they are comfortable 'risking' prior to commitment. It's a point of tension to be sure, but it's not impossible by any means. I can link you to several other discussions I have had with RP gentlemen about this very topic if you're interested.

            [–]stillnoturday 0 points1 point  (23 children)

            I mean if you can find fault in that reasoning then yea I'd like to read it.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (22 children)

            It's not a matter of faulty reasoning - it's simply two different approaches that emphasize conflicting goals. The male RP approach is entirely valid, but in many cases, it goes against what a RPW is looking for and wants. Just as the RPW approach conflicts with what many RP gentlemen want first and foremost.

            It's up to every RPW to know her boundaries and have an idea about what she will and won't bend on. No intimacy until commitment was a big deal to me, yet I never had any problems as a result of that philosophy. Partially because I was very defensive in my dating strategy, and, as you pointed out, men that are primarily interested in acquiring sex will lose patience and move on.

            In any event, here is another thread that deals with the conflicting approaches between RP men and RP women. The link will take you to the first comment I wrote on the thread (and also has another link to a post I wrote).

            RPW are looking for a good man, which may or may not mean that he has any knowledge of TRP (he could be naturally masculine, maybe he's a RP gentleman that is actively looking for a long-term relationship etc). Sure, a man can always 'go somewhere else' to get sex - which is partially why it's so important for RPW to be pro-active about limiting her exposure.

            [–]stillnoturday 0 points1 point  (21 children)

            After reading that you highlighted my point, selection.

            Also "RPW are looking for a good man" nearly killed me.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            Also, good man will understand the worth of having a good woman around. He will recognize her value, and if LTR's are a priority for him (which is part of what makes a man "good" to a RPW) then he will be willing to extend her some amount of security (commitment) in order for her to feel safe.

            [–]stillnoturday 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            That was my poing if you are worth having, then sex isn't a commodity.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Part of what makes a woman of worth however is the fact that she respects herself, and guards her value. Part of that means limiting sexual exposure.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (14 children)

            Yes, selection is paramount. Which is why your reference to '6 months' and men not wanting to wait around is not the central issue, or even a major concern at all. Every woman will have to figure out and navigate her timeline (and adjust if needed) based on the man in question.

            Why did "RPW are looking for a good man" nearly kill you?

            [–]stillnoturday -1 points0 points  (13 children)

            It implies I'm a bad guy and others are for wanting something different.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

            You're misunderstanding. I am talking to you, as a RPW, about dating strategies. What you did, right there?

            It implies I'm a bad guy and others are for wanting something different.

            Is the equivalent of a woman going onto the TRP sub and saying "but I AM a good woman, how can you say x, y, and z??"

            I already said that the male RP mating strategy may or may not focus on LTRs, which is fine and valid. As a RPW on the RPW sub we talk about and focus on LTR's. So when we say "good" in terms of a man - we are talking about gentlemen that have similar goals as we do in terms of dating. They are a good match, they are a good LTR candidate. What a RPW wants and your quality of character have nothing to do with each other. If you don't want an LTR - then YES you are a bad candidate for a RPW. That doesn't make you a bad human being or worthless as a man - it ONLY means that you are not the type of gentleman a RPW would do well to avoid.

            Please, tell me you understand that the priorities of RP men can and may be different from the priorities of RPW - but that they are ALL STILL VALID. There is a level of nuance that you either fail to recognize or simply don't understand. YOUR priorities, be it spinning plates, LTRs or whatever - are all valid in the RP sense. Focusing on finding and maintaining LTRs is one of THE main focuses of this sub.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            "Good man to get into a relationship with and entrust your short window of atractiveness to" not metaphysical platonic form of "Good Man" floating in the ether

            Stop this right now. We are a RELATIONSHIP ORIENTED SUB. If you don't like relationships thats fine, go in good health, you are not adding to our discussion of how WOMEN can become the kinds of GOOD WOMEN that GOOD MEN want to MARRY and can learn how to keep these men HAPPY in those marriages, base don what the Red Pill tells us men WANT in marriage. If you aren't here to help us with that goal then you have no place here

            [–]SirNemesis 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            Well if the shoe fits...

            [–]eatplaycrushEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            It does not imply that really at all.

            When we say we are looking for a good man it is purely subjective to the individual, but the basis is a man who is stable within life and has the qualities we desire and what we view as "good" qualities. When it is said that RPW want a good man it does not imply that men are bad, or others are bad, it implies that we are looking for a man who we view would be best suitable for the type of relationship/family life we would like to have.

            [–]Humankeg 20 points21 points  (17 children)

            my advice is that you should know a guy for at least 6 months before you have sex with him.

            Good luck keeping an alpha man around that long. I understand if you were friends prior to dating, but I don't know any high smv guys that would be willing to do this. I would consider (if dating regularly) MAYBE two months at absolute tops. Realistically, one month. I wouldn't even consider a monogomous relationship with someone I havent fucked.

            Good read besides that.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 3 points4 points  (11 children)

            What if blow jobs and hand jobs were on the table, but sexual intercourse was not? Also the 6 months can include the friendship - getting to know each other prior to dating phase, because that's technically a flirtation phase.

            [–]Humankeg 10 points11 points  (8 children)

            Unless it was strictly friends with no ties to dating, then two months at absolute tops (of actual dating).

            If the girl is sucking my dick three times a day... Two months tops. And during that time I am still fucking other women. Hand jobs? Lol, I can give myself those.

            Six months: a guy that agrees to that is almost a beta orbiter. Pussy isn't that valuable a commodity.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

            Alright, fair enough. You guys made your point. I changed what I wrote on my blog. I said even though I previously advocated 6 months, you should not have an arbitrary number. Instead you should take a couple of weeks or months until you feel like you know the guy as a person before you get to fucking.

            Because I guess when I think about it, that process of getting to know the person varies depending on the people involved and the circumstances.

            [–]RojoEscarlata 11 points12 points  (5 children)

            Don't make things more complicated that they have to be making arbitrary numbers.

            Remember women are the keepers of sex, men on the other hand of relationships.

            beta orbiters give "commitment" without getting sex, just like plates give sex without commitment.

            By this logic is only fair to give sex if the men is already committed to you.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            This puzzles me. Isn't a RP woman supposed to wait to give sex until after commitment, to avoid being a plate? Especially if she's a virgin? Even if she's known the guy for a while, isn't giving him sex without commitment a bad thing on her part?

            [–]RojoEscarlata 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Yes, that's correct.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Yet this ideal completely clashes with RP's point of view, which insists that you must "test drive before you buy" and that a woman's pussy is not worth that much to wait until a relationship. So wouldn't a beta only be willing to wait until commitment to have sex?

            [–]RojoEscarlata 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Depends how much you wait, the reasons for waiting and the value of the girl. Is very simple.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That's a good point. The commitment happens when it happens. There is no exact date.

            [–]Venicedreaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            6 month is fair. What RPW should look for shouldn't be pure alpha males, but an alpha with a side of beta. With each man a RPW sleeps with, her SMV decreases, So don't agree to anything unless you get the commitment.

            [–]stillnoturday 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Good luck with that, if we've done that you'll cave.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            would you hold a woman's notch count against her if she gathered i in pursuit of relationships not the cock carousel?

            [–]810809 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Personally, no.

            [–]Humankeg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Yes. Show me a 28 year old with fifty people under her belt and I'll show you a woman with a traumatic childhood, daddy issues, and or massive amounts of drama (and who knows what else.

            A count like five, ten, fifteen maybe, that seems like a reasonable and healthy number for someone in their late twenties. But to be honest, I haven't asked that question to a woman in a long time, and I wouldn't believe their answer anyways.

            [–]Man-with-a-pitchfork 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            About those "6 months": I think the better advice is to simply avoid the "signs that you are a plate", for the most part:

            You know that he is having sex or romantic relations with other women.

            Don't sleep with a man if you know that he is sleeping with other women, duh.

            Doesn't matter if you've been datin for 6 months, 6 years, or 6 days - if you sleep with him while he is sleeping with other women, there is no reason why he shouldn't later on sleep with other women while he's sleeping with you.

            He doesn’t spend the main holidays, such as Christmas or Thanksgiving with you.

            Waiting for one of the main holidays before sleeping with a guy is not practicable. But waiting for a weekend is - if a man is not willing to spend at least a day on a weekend with you, don't sleep with him.

            He doesn’t invite you over to meet his parents, because he knows that your relationship will be temporary at best. You don’t spend a lot of time hanging out with his close friends (for the same reasons).

            I'll skip over the parents - I don't think you should try to make a guy wait until you've met his parents. I know I wouldn't wait for that.

            But you can certainly have a rule: don't sleep with a guy unless you've met a few of his friends.

            He visits you at odd hours, and mainly for sex.

            Well, yeah, this is obvious. Doesn't matter if you've been "dating" for 6 months, if you do this, you are a booty call and a plate, not a girlfriend.

            If a man is enthusiastic enough about you to introduce you to his friends and spend his weekends with you, there's a good chance he doesn't see you as just a plate. Talk about being exclusive, and then have all the sex you want, wether it's been two weeks or two months.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            But you can certainly have a rule: don't sleep with a guy unless you've met a few of his friends.

            That's pretty good advice.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Great read LadyLumen, I will be adding this to the side-bar under "Good Blogs and Great Reads."

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Yeh I was just going to say we should do that

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Haha, just finished adding it, so I'm glad we're on the same page. :0)

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thank you!

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            I really admire your thought process LL, bang on.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Thanks!

            [–]aurorae_borealis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Just read the article. I can't believe it's written by a woman. It's full of benevolent sexism and ageism. Omg. You think you can avoid being a plate following this article? I highly doubt that.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Spot on! As someone who was a plate for a time, I can definitely relate. Was nodding my head in agreement on all points as I was reading through this.

            [–]LadyLumen[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I was in a few situations in my life where a guy tried to make me a plate, and it was very awkward.

            I met this one guy in college, who was super flirty, and we ended up making out at a party. Anyways, we started to hang out more, but the weird thing is that he never invited his friends over to hang out with us. He also still seemed to like this other girl more, and would blow me off for her.

            It didn't take long for me to realize I was just his back up plan, so I bailed on that shit.

            [–]reiduh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Today it is hard to find such quality men, because Feminism has told boys that manly behavior is threatening to the womyns and also because there is a dearth of strong male role models on TV. When women say, “there’s no good men left,” what they really mean is that there are no “real men around who are willing to fuck me.”

            .

            [–]mightyspan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            As a guy that's ok with spinning plates but would prefer an LTR with a good woman it's encouraging to read that there are actually women who think this way.

            [–]rougepill -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Great article! On the one hand I can definitely see the appeal of having an alpha fuck buddy so you can "get it out of your system". We're only animals, and hormones/instincts can be difficult to override. But it all comes down to self-respect.

            Respect yourself, be a lady, and don't share dick.

            [–]johngalt1234 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            I'd say if you want to screw just marry. Except that marriage has been made such a minefield due to divorce laws and VAWA and all the misandric jazz.

            [–]winndixie -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Relationship > Plate > Loneliness.

            Just as RP Man > Beta Orbiter > Loneliness.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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