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THEORYRelationship Timeline for Women - from potential date to wife material (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Shaela90

This post is based on my comment on /u/fairydust91 's the Difference between girlfriend and wife "duties" and expresses my own views on how to maximize the chances of securing a healthy, happy transition from the single status to a serious, long-term commitment.

I will expand further on the comment, sometimes using both positive and negative examples from my own relationship(s).

During our time here on Earth we play a wide range of roles, from specific, singular ones like the daughters of our parents to collective ones, like students or employees. Some we choose, some are chosen for us and each role comes with its own benefits and obligations, which we acknowledge and try to embody to the best of our abilities.

The central point to all of these roles is the actor, the individual who molds and gives life to the character, allowing it to surface in various circumstances. This is far from wearing a mask or putting on a meager act and I explain the difference illustrating with the method acting techniques, which encourage complete identification with the character, to create sincere, genuine emotions on-screen. Basically, in a specific context, the actor becomes his character, talks, moves, behaves and thinks like it. The idea I got from an article on how Marlon Brando became Francis Ford Coppola's don Vito Corleone, using Italian cheese and wine and a couple cotton balls which he stuffed into his cheeks, thus embodying The Godfather.

Now, if we try to bring the technique into the relationship realm, we first need to establish the exact transition an individual goes through from a single woman to enjoying a committed, marriage headed relationship:

FIRST STAGE - PHYSICAL ATTRACTION

First stage is, of course, that of a single woman interested in a relationship. First and foremost, a relationship is the sum of its parts, meaning you will get out of it exactly what you put in. In this stage, the woman is solely focused on herself and her own life. Most likely, she will be balancing her own well-being, school/a career or job, a group of friends/family and some personal interests. Enter an interesting man, her catching his eye. Now, from the get-go, the man is interested in the woman because he is physically attracted, he likes the way she walks, talks, carries herself and his imagination starts going wild with all the nasty stuff he wants to do to her. He asks her out, she agrees and then the courting begins. What is the woman compelled do at this stage? She eagerly starts pulling out THAT outfit from her closet, makes sure she gets enough rest before the date, maybe even gets her nails and hair done.

If we observe the trend here, it's all focused on the physical mostly, she is interested in presenting herself in the best light possible. I've never heard of a woman showing up on a date man with a man she's interested in with messy, unwashed hair or chipped nails. This is a beautiful part of our mating ritual which, I believe, most(if not all) women enjoy. This is the stage when she feels like a princess who's got her own personal knight in shining armor ready to woo her and prove himself to her.

Vetting in this stage consists of taking a close look at the man's behavior:

Does he take the lead? - we want a man who knows what he wants and has enough confidence in himself to ACT - ability which comes in handy later, say, in pursuing a promotion for example.

Does he put in the effort? Is he a good planner? Has he got enough attention to detail to make things pleasant for the both of you? You'll have trouble submitting to someone who is incapable of making sound plans.

Does he follow through with his plans? Is he able to get out of his mind and shape reality or is he satisfied playing a fantasy over and over in his mind, then losing motivation?

Is he flexible? Does he take you into account? For example, my bf proposed a bike ride for our first date. I initially said yes, but changed my mind since I was recovering from a bad cold, so he proposed we have a walk and maybe stop for a glass of wine somewhere. I agreed to this also but, since the weather that day got a bit fussy, he showed empathy and proposed we schedule the walk for another time and just grab the wine. I liked his flexibility and the fact that he never once deterred. This was a man 100% decided he will see me but was also attentive to my well being.

How does he come across? Is he bold and dominant because of experience or because he's a momma's boy used to having everything done his own way? Is he hesitant to pick a venue because he's new in town or because he needs affirmation at every step?

This phase will usually last around a month, maybe more, depending how often you see each other. Notice I haven't said anything about deep, serious conversations regarding baggage, self-baring, cooking, waiting on him, etc. You're just barely getting to know this man and he you, this is each person's time to shine and present themselves in the best light possible. You need to be aware, he will never ever appear to be this perfect ever again, so enjoy the attention and the love-goggles. Don't rush it.If something feels off now, it probably is a HUGE red flag so let him do the talking, pay attention and ask questions.

SECOND STAGE - MENTAL ATTRACTION

In this stage, a brand new relationship is starting to take shape. You see each other more and more, maybe meet up with friends or family and the level of intimacy increases. To differentiate this from the first stage, think of intent. If during the first dates your intention was to have some innocent good time with a guy you might or might not consider for a relationship and gather 'clues', as the connection deepens, you intend to find out if your clues all fit together and are backed up by his actual behavior observed over a longer period of time.

This is the stage of questions, you are trying to actually know this man on a deeper level, who he is, what are his hopes and ambitions, what does he like in a woman, what does he want out of a relationship, why did his former relationships failed, etc. You NEED to actually ask questions, help him open up and then show vulnerability in return. Talk about your own hobbies, dreams and ambitions. Show yourself more and more and let him show himself. Schedule trips, visits, bring him to meet your friends, take him to your favorite spots, show him you are so much more than a pretty, girly girl.

Allow him to confide in you, do not judge, do not put him down, no matter what. Encourage him to be himself and get comfortable with you. How else are you going to know whether he is really a boring slob if you always keep him to your high standards? Let him be and WATCH what he does when absolute freedom is given to him. He'll love you for it and you'll have the chance to notice how he's going to behave 10 years down the road. Do you like what you hear when he knows he can tell you anything? Do you like what you see when he knows he can get completely comfortable around you? Try to notice him in as many situations as possible, how he reacts to stress, hunger, lack of sleep, etc. Is he reliable? Does he get in a foul mood when he has not slept enough? Is he a picky eater? What are his favorite meals? Is he actively interested in sex, or to him sex is nothing more than blowing off some steam? Does he want children? Now? Never? Ask him as many questions as possible, expand on them as this is all going to be useful information for later.

During this stage, which usually lasts 2-3 months, he is a steady presence in your life, someone you are dating. Many things can still come out of it. Maybe you realize you like him as a man, but he would make an unsuitable partner. Maybe you figure out you two have so much in common but the initial attraction kind of fizzled or maybe you're already over the moon at your compatibility and thinking about him day & night.

THIRD STAGE - COMMITMENT

By now, some good months have passed, you know this person and truly, honestly appreciate them. You feel the need to give, to share, to help. This is the time to invite him over for a home cooked meal and it will definitely not come across as desperate or like you are trying to win him over by showing you're 'wife material'. If you honestly reached to the point where you get the need to give something out of yourself for this man, he will feel you coming from a place of abundance, which is powerful, not from a place of insecurity and shaky-ness, employing meager tactics to make him stick around. This is also the most suitable time to have sex, imo, for the same reason.

You know this person and you like them so much you can't help but wanting to make them happy. You go out of your way to make him feel good and he feels like a king, because he knows you don't just do this to everyone in the hope someone will stick around, but he has been thoroughly vetted and this 'submitting' of yours is only reserved for the best man out there, him.

He knows you're spending late nights discussing the novel he's recommended to you not because you want to 'hook' him, but because you truly found it fascinating, since you have similar taste. There's no doubt in his mind that you are a woman tailored to his needs, attractive, smart, honest, who's not afraid to show her vulnerable side and invite him to tag along in a journey to self discovery.

In this stage, the commitment-talk comes easy. I personally believe the man should escalate and amp up his commitment to the woman. Her role is to show him what a valuable addition to his life she can be, but NEVER, EVER push him. Just take note of his behavior.

You cannot change anyone anyway, so if he moves too slow for your liking, just tell him that and say your good-byes. A million times better than a miserable life where you have to nag constantly to get him on the same page. You have no right to make someone else feel like a failure just because you expect a ring within the first 6 months. If you do, there's nothing wrong with that, but be aware he will never be the man you are expecting him to be and this will set you up for disaster. It's his job to be the leader, the pursuer, to show you he is capable of taking care of you and your children and shape up a piece of reality for his family. Yours is to vet, vet, vet for the best match. Allow him space to act like a man and in the mean time, make sure to become the best woman you can be.

In closing, I believe most of what I have written here, although not necessarily RP to the core, can help anyone in not selling themselves too short or emphasizing a good sexual connection too early, thus getting blinded by it. It also offers some sets of questions to guide any relationship with a man in the early stages, as to figure out whether he can be trusted, with what and for how long. I'm sure that heartbreak which turns to cynicism, which in turn makes us old, wrinkly and jaded can easily be avoided, if we are mindful and honest enough to know what we`re looking for and then stick to it.

Any questions, comments, additions or experience sharing is most welcome!


[–]akanachan 16 points17 points  (3 children)

You need to be aware, he will never ever be this perfect ever again, so enjoy the attention and the love-goggles.

Maybe it's just me, but this sounds pretty bad if you want to keep this guy around as a life-long partner lol

The best long term partner becomes increasingly more compatible with you in time, as you learn new things about each other, and you create this "perfect match" together, in time. I believe "true love" is something you build together, not a random thing that fell out of the sky (or a random serendipitous phone notification lol).

[–]Shaela90[S] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I kept rewriting that particular line for a few minutes, however I feel I still never got quite the hang of it. What I'm trying to say is that, in the early stages, we don't really know the other person for the multidimensional human being they are, we've just got this picture of that cute, awesome guy being a gentleman with no knowledge of the, let's say, face he does in the morning when he hasn't had a good night's sleep and that we should cherish that for the time being. No need to hurry into 'real life' with wife/husband responsibilities too son. Real, true intimacy builds up a strong connection and ultimately love, but takes away a bit of the magic of those first encounters.

[–]akanachan 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Ahh I see what you mean. I'm the type of person who, when presented with the choice of "Good or bad news first?", I'd pick the bad news first.

From what I understand, you're saying "enjoy the good news first" (correct me if I'm wrong).

Maybe because of my background (grew up in an environment that's the outcome of a really bad marriage between two people who refuse to divorce), I've always been interested in the "ugly realities", more than anything lol

[–]Shaela90[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I guess I like me some wooing and I might enjoy the courting phase a bit too much. It's a case of 'you're only young once, don't rush into growing up', while you have a very mature, mindful view over the matter.

[–]mwait 18 points19 points  (18 children)

I know RPW preaches waiting until commitment for sex... which lends itself to a women's best interests when it comes to finding a suitable mate.

But I do want to point out that you have the sex stage @ the 4-5 month mark in your post. Looking for a dominant, "red pill" man in this day and age reduces your dating pool already. Looking for one that will wait 4-5 months for sex is going to turn that pool into a puddle.

[–]Shaela90[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

How soon a couple should have sex is such a personal variable, I thought about omitting it on purpose. Decided to write it down under stage three because I believe in most cases the right answer is something along the lines of 'whenever you're sure what is it that you want from this guy and have some certainty that his intentions align with yours'.

However, a much bigger loss is being taken advantage of by these so-called 'dominant', RP men, as there have been a number of posts regarding this around here just recently. When a guy comes off as dominant and displaying abundance mentality, it's best to take a step back and ask yourself whether he's really trying to build up a connection with you or is just looking for a woman, any woman that would fulfill his needs. Aaaand down the drain goes his display of 'abundance mentality'

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I think what you really mean by this is that by waiting you can distinguish guys using "game" to bag pussy from guys that have real internalized masculine leadership.

For guys staying around a bit also reveals the woman, as you can see her without make up and if she is truly feminine or just playing girl "game".

[–]Shaela90[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly! These stages go both way, the man also should be on the look out for any red flags that the woman might be displaying, but I'm afraid that is a discussion for a different (male) space.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's your recommendation regarding sexual compatibility? How to avoid the disappointment in case their desires are incompatible (e.g. I want deepthroating/facesitting, she doesn't), or if there's just general physical incompatibility?

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 6 points7 points  (7 children)

The wide availability of sex is actually a boon to an RPW. She instantly stands out because she's not desperate. If he's not commitment-minded then he won't wait around and he's less likely lie about being monogamous to get in your pants (like they did in the old days).

It's like if there's a very long wait at a 5-star restaurant or a months-long delay in getting a reservation. Sure, some will say "fuck it" and go buy a slice of pizza instead, but people who are truly interested in the quality of the food and the experience will not only wait, but feel like the place is more special because they had to wait.

[–]mwait 6 points7 points  (6 children)

There is a huge difference between a 1-2 month wait... And a 4-5 month wait. Huge. Commitment minded men don't mind waiting for sex. High value commitment minded men don't mind waiting for sex.

But high value men do mind waiting an arbitrarily long time because the woman thinks she "deserves" a man who is willing to wait because what she has to offer is so special.

There are two reasons why a man would wait that long for sex. Strong religious convictions... Or he is dating someone out of his league and is being forced to wait. Yeah, I know. Someone is going to chime in with their personal experience about how their SO/husband waited 6 months for them. That's great. Or a middle-aged man is going to put in his 2cents about how he would wait that long for the right woman. That's also great.

But if we are going to be honest with each other and we are actually discussing how to land a top-tier guy... not the dad-bod, receding hairline, makes $70k, and has some RP values guy... but a true top-tier man. Then you will absolutely decimate your pool of potential suitors by making them wait 4-5 months for sex.

[–]JackGetsItEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Or a middle-aged man is going to put in his 2cents about how he would wait that long for the right woman. That's also great.

I don't know one high value man I've met that would wait this long for even the highest quality female unless it was a religious thing. It's 2017, 4-5 months is ridiculous unless it was a few dates and then a break due to travel. 4-12 weeks is the sweet spot; and definitely towards the 4 week mark if you're dating a lot.

[–]mwait 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I absolutely agree.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be clear, I don't believe in waiting a particular, arbitrarily-set amount of time before sex... I believe on waiting until you've established that you're going to monogamous. Realistically, if you've been seeing each other fairly frequently and really like each other, people usually know if they want to be exclusive within 1 to 3 months.

[–]Shaela90[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It just stuck me that it might very well be a cultural difference at stake here. Disclaimer, I'm European and never had any exposure to the American dating scene. Around here it's very common knowledge that we don't really take the 'dating phase' as seriously. We don't 'date' with the intention of finding someone.

In my circles(I live in a large, very liberal city in Eastern Europe), the high value men and women usually 1. Have usually known each other casually for a long time, being part of the same social circles and 2. The first few dates are mostly just friendly get-togethers. It's very unlikely that a guy would pay for the first few dates, as these would be seen, like I've written in my post, nothing but some pleasant encounters between two people who have somewhat similar interests. For example, I've know my bf for about 10 years now and our first dates consisted mostly of hours of discussing music, life plans, ideas, etc. We were obviously attracted to each other but we had so much to discuss the thought of a relationship/sex/commitment never really crossed our minds.

Anyway, I still think sex is mostly an afterthought to a truly high-value man (or woman, for the matter). If it's just sex they're after, they'll just go to a club, pick and line up at least 5 willing girls for the evening and that's absolutely fine. Every girl's got the same lady bits anyway, that won't keep them interested when they can get sex left and right. What will do the trick is finding someone they can relate to on a deeper level, someone who is capable of arousing their minds first. Not a soul-mate, but someone similar enough they can envision a fruitful life with. I believe this is the sweet spot for a successful relationship to bloom and it takes time to figure out, on both sides.

[–]mwait 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perhaps there is some cultural difference...

Regardless, sex is never an afterthought to a man... high value or otherwise. You are kidding yourself if you think so.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We discussed this before in another thread (the so-called dating culture) and in American culture, during the college years and shortly post grad, this is how most of my friends have hooked up with their partners, through mutual friends, similar to what you're saying in Romania. For me that's how I met my first boyfriend.

While this can be a good thing (mutual friends and social circles mean you're around people of the same economic status and mindset and lifestyle) I found it especially difficult if I didn't want to be around these types of people, does that make sense? For instance, my college friends smoked a lot of weed and drank a lot. They were also all artists. I did not want to marry or date another artist (they're very unstable people) and I yearned for a rational engineer type guy. That's when I started dating online and going on dates. Similarly to my boyfriend, who comes from a poor part of a Mediterranean country, is sick of being around other poor people who don't have any ambitions besides hanging out. He strove to find a woman who was more educated and had work ethic.

In any case, people do see marriages and relationships differently, I suppose. I don't see mine as a predominantly a friendship, I see mine as a partnership where I take care of him and he takes care of me. Of course we are friends in addition to lovers but we are not stuck at the hip and it would drive me crazy if we were. I do have a Romanian colleague and he and his British girlfriend seem to have a very egalitarian relationship where they split everything and do most things together, so many it's part of their culture's mindset. I'm East Asian as well.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Because the Pandora's box was opened up decades ago on casual sex the issue of commitment before sex truthfully is as fraught with difficulties for men as it is for women.

If a man senses that a woman has had casual sex with random men in the past, but is now making him jump through hoops to have the same intimate experience with her there is a good chance he will feel disrespected. He will think himself "what the hell did those random douche bags have over me in the past to merit such intimacy with her when I am the one who is actually attempting to get into a committed relationship with his woman?!" The woman may not be intending to be capricious here, but it will nonetheless come off like that. Note that, of course, there are plenty of men who have internalized the belief that a woman's sexual past is completely irrelevant when it comes to evaluating her for a long term relationship. I think the numbers of men who think like this will fall over time, however. When it comes to considering a LTR, and especially when it comes to considering a marriage, that is PRECISELY when being "judgmental" about a person's prior choices is appropriate. It's simply smart to err on the side of caution, because the potential negative consequences are so dire. The real question is how judgmental can you afford to be on a practical basis?

There are other problems, but as an aside I will note that there is a lot of talk on the red pill, amongst men and women, about the importance of confidence in a man, and his ability to lead. While I think these are worthwhile qualities to look for (within reason) the insistence on finding a "dominant" man can become borderline pathological: it is not reasonable to seek out a man who is completely devoid of insecurity, or is so outcome independent of your feelings for him as to be completely indifferent to you. The feeling of outcome independence to woman's affections leads to an aura of complete confidence when interacting with a woman, but often stems from the man either being (A) genuinely disinterested in the woman or (B) viewing her as mere sexual commodity (e.g. he has learned to spin plates, or is naturally motivated to spin plates because he is sufficiently dark triad to not care that the women he is sleeping with may develop feelings for him). If on the other hand he has any romantic feelings for you at all, he will care about your degree of investment in him, which implies some degree of vulnerability to you. It's impossible for it to be any other way, and I urge single women on this forum to think carefully before rejecting such a man. I think it is possible for a man to have this orientation towards a woman without turning into a doormat, if he has a strong moral compass, and has similar values as the woman he is dating, but the standard trope on the TRP men forum is that the development of romantic feelings will typically cause you to "lose frame" with a woman, and result in the woman detonating the relationship with incessant shit tests as a result.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Not necessarily.

You're right that it makes it more challenging, but you're wrong if you think this challenge is impossible.

Case in point - me. My wife and I didn't have sex until almost 4 months after we met. This was a little over ten years ago. Am I from a completely different generation than today's men? I don't think so. Different but not that different.

Let's also remember that you only need one. Don't compromise your core values because of scarcity mentality.

[–]mwait 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it would turn an already small pool into a puddle. And it sounds like you are agreeing with me there.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't agree that it's reduced that much.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is possible. My man waited seven. We are far from virgins, and our commitiment has only grown. A solid foundation to build a life together is more than just waiting to have sex.

[–]unruffledlake 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Since this discussion was pinned, I think it prudent to acknowledge at least once here that many, many couples, even today, will successfully practice living separately and sexual abstinence until they are married. They have agreed this final sacred stage of intimacy is best saved until after the lifetime, divine commitment of their wedding ceremony. Acknowledging biological desires is one reason why marriages used to take place at an earlier age than today, and the stage three process of engagement was relatively brief :).

As previous discussions have mentioned, it's not necessary to have sex before marriage in order to establish compatibility, if the vetting process is very thorough, with frank conversations about needs, wants, expectations.

This pattern was the general norm for thousands of years before the recent 'sexual revolution' and will again become so as the pendulum of the mass mind slowly shifts back to predominantly conservative.

[–]Shaela90[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Of course, thank you for pointing it out!

This brings me to another point I realize now I failed to make. I cannot help but notice a great deal of people nowadays tend to have sex BEFORE even having any sort of conversation about it. There are a bunch of general points which I believe are worth discussing at the beginning of every relationship:

  1. What are each person's views on sex before marriage?

  2. Contraception!

  3. What happens if contraception fails/I get pregnant. Many women don't even bother asking themselves this question and I've seen some cases in which this brought doom on an otherwise easy to solve situation. Am I ok with having an abortion? Am I 100% sure I do not want a child now, at this stage? If I get pregnant, will I do whatever it takes to keep the child? Once you know your answer, talk about it with your prospective partner and let him know. Situations are different and opinions on the matter can change but always do your best to keep your man informed of any principles you might have, so he can act accordingly.

  4. What is sex to me? Do I need constant variation or is it just an act of love which brings me closer to my partner?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

[–]Shaela90[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like the cool realism of your post and overall, I tend to agree. There is no such thing as destiny or soul-mates and although the idea that a guy just can't help himself but marry you sounds wonderful and romantic in theory, it tends to get really creepy really soon IRL.

The whole point of vetting a potential partner is to figure out if this is a person you can coexist successfully with. When most things fall into place naturally and both partners have their lives figured out, it's easy for love to bloom.

Again, the most each of us can do, for our own happiness' sake, is to build ourselves up into the best partners we can be, keep our ears peeled to the man/woman in front of us and never try to dress them up with our expectations, while turning a blind eye to the real human being they are.

[–]bowie747 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wise beyond your years, and a way with words.

Write a book!

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

[–]MissNissa[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This response doesn't help anyone to improve.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great posts! I think I take the opposite approach on commitment though. I think a woman should pursue commitment in the same way a man pursues sex. It is his option to grant whatever he feels as appropriate, and her job to ask for what she wants. Of course, this doesn't mean dogging him and pressuring him, but saying things like "I'd like us to be serious and exclusive" and then letting him decide. If that's not what he wants, then you leave. Marriage can be even more delicate, but not so delicate that you should never bring it up. When you're ready, express that you would like to spend your life together and would love to be married to him. Then let him take the reins. Like you said, if he's not going at your speed, you don't have to stay. But especially in this day and age where guys get burned so often for being too "needy," I think it's best for women to step up and be vulnerable first on the commitment front. I have always done this, and it has always gone really well for me. I believe RP also supports this, although this was my tried and true approach before I knew RP existed.