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DISCUSSIONI'd rather struggle every day of my life rather than ever give a man the power to say 'you wouldn't have that if it wasn't for me' (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by [deleted]

An acquaintance just posted this on Facebook. I obviously don't agree; I appreciate what my SO offers me physically, romantically, intellectually, etc. The goal of all my relationships is to find people who bring value to my life. What do you all think about this sentiment?

Also, what are the red and yellow dots I see by some usernames?


[–]bby_gem 52 points53 points  (2 children)

Comments like “you wouldn’t have that if it wasn’t for me” are meant to diminish though so while I agree it’s good to appreciate what a SO can do for you in a variety of aspects of life, its important to recognize when someone suggests those kinds of things they are being degrading and not fully appreciating you or your qualities.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Very true! My SO and I both appreciate what the other brings into the relationship. While I fully expect to make my own money, I know he would never be so degrading even if I needed to depend on him financially.

[–]nanamanana555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly!!! I actually agree with the comment because I think it's important to be independent, especially financially as implied. But I can still fully appreciate the value my SO or any relationship provides. It's not like those are the opposite of each other.

[–]cryptohobo 14 points15 points  (3 children)

In a healthy and functional relationship a man would never feel the need to say such a statement. What she’s projecting is pretty loaded while also futile at the same time.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Exactly. A good man would never say something like that.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (5 children)

I think it's a very telling statement about the position women are putting themselves in. To me it says "I know I'll probably suffer more for not allowing a man to help me, but I'd rather suffer than admit I need him." And that's a pretty powerful summary of where feminism is at right now. We are incapable of acknowledging that men are necessary to our well-being. We hate them. We beat them down until they feel completely useless and hate themselves. And then we make these types of statements, reinforcing our distaste for them, for everyone on our friend's list to see. Why do you think male suicide is so high? They feel completely hopeless, useless, and hated.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 16 points17 points  (2 children)

The other side from male perspective is that fewer men are married/marrying or if they divorce they see no reason to remarry - based on the sentiment of "turning power over to a man."

It appears as if women don't need men, but reality reflects that both genders need each other to make this whole thing work.

I see this differently - many men have either witnessed or suffered terrible divorces and are refusing to participate or "get back in the game." This hurts women, but mostly it hurts families.

The added insult is that many men have the sentiment that women have the most power with the full force of the state (government/courts) to weaken a man so severely that he might wish he never married/produced children.

It goes back to both folks making very good choices for the person they select as a life-mate. Any person with the overlord attitude - man or woman - does NOT make a good life-partner.

The union is doomed from the start.

...just recently had this conversation. Feminism's "War on Families." If we don't have strong families, I don't know how we best make society work. No man or woman is an island.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I agree with you completely. It's just an overall bad system, for everyone involved.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Remember everyone, it is against the rules to say any version of "as a man". Make your point without your gender. Look at the male participation requirements on the side bar if you are confused.

    [–]bobmarleyismycopilot 15 points16 points  (3 children)

    Everyone making comments about roads, internet, etc being made by men are missing the point. It’s not about the obvious societal things everyone has thanks in large part to men. It’s about being in a relationship with someone, most likely a narcissist, that says something like that to break you down and isolate you from everything that makes you sane. To break you.

    [–]Rivkariver2 Star 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    She said she wouldn’t give him the power to say that. She assumed that any man who gives a gift will be inclined to say such a thing. She’s not basing it on if he actually says it, but only the potential that he might.

    Millions of men give their women everything and ask nothing back. The fact that she assumes all men will be toxic about giving is really an unfair view on men.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    If she grew up in a shitty family where her dad said that to her mom constantly, it explains why she has this perspective.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yes, I agree. This is something a narcissist would say to someone.

    [–]Kiddingyoself 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    They would be accurate if they said that to the other parent of their children.

    What a diseased perspective. Only someone with that type of attitude would say something like that. Why people bother with relationships when they see the other as an adversary, rather than the partner, I have no idea.

    [–]fairydust91 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I watched my dad go off to work every day for years without leaving my mum a single $, expecting her to stay home all day, cook clean and look after the kids, ensuring she couldnt go anywhere and couldnt spend "his" money. It broke her spirit. I love my BF to absolute bits but I would never allow myself to be financially dependent on anyone, ever.

    [–]glitterchild 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I’m with you 110%. Life is no fun when you don’t allow yourself to be appreciative and dare I even say dependent on others to add value to your life. Being a tough “I don’t need no man” woman doesn’t help you, your man, or anyone around you enjoy life.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think you should be able to take care of yourself. I’m financially independent and can handle myself fine on my own if I have to, but why would you if you don’t have to? I’m not as much of a Laura Doyle fan as some posters are on here but she really drives the point home about the value and attractiveness of being receptive and dependent and I like that about her. Honestly I think when people post stuff like that it’s because they’re insecure and have been deeply hurt by men in the past. I don’t see too many ladies in healthy relationships posting those sorts of things.

    [–]Pixie03103 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It makes me wonder what triggered off this post. I can't help but think of my dad, who was the type of person to say things like that. On the one hand, my mother was controlling and emasculating. On the other hand, my father was lazy, domineering, and selfish. Overall, they claimed to espouse traditional gender roles, but they both failed at demonstrating them.

    I can't imagine a situation in a proper RP LTR that should result in a man saying the above. It implies that she is perhaps showing a lack of appreciation or recognition, which shouldn't happen. Or it implies that he is insecure or needs to exert power for its own sake, which also shouldn't happen.

    If both partners are behaving appropriately, she is grateful for what he has provided, and he is humble and happy about what he's been able to give.

    [–]plein_old 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    No matter how hard anyone struggles--even if they work 20 hours a day--aren't they most likely still dependent on farmers and police and people who make roads and so on? Not to mention the sun and the rain.

    Anyone who thinks they are not indebted to other people, even if just in the sense of owing them a simple "thank you" once in a while, sounds like someone who doesn't understand how life works.

    And the people we owe the most to are the people closest to us!

    [–]mmerijn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I think both sides of this coin are harmful to yourself. On one end there is the 'you are nothing without me' sentiment, this is harmful to both the person saying it as well as you (recipient), because this implies that you can only trust the other person if they are entirely reliant on you. Then the 'I'd rather struggle every day of my life rather tha ngive a man the power to say X'l, are you going to do everything in your life on your own? Most of the food you buy is made by men, and these men can say "you would have nothing to eat if it weren't for me and my coworkers"; you are going to be reliant on other people which includes men, learn to give other people that power over you and learn to give back, then your life will be a lot better. Even if someone does come along and say that you can just brush him off knowing that he is just an insecure person that doesn't have the courage to trust someone who isn't reliant on him (or her).

    [–]DoctorNini 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The fact that she apparently sees relationships as a struggle for power says enough, in my opinion.

    Although I have to say, I would never want to depend on my husband without bringing anything to the table myself. If he were to point out that he brings more money to our joint account, I could point out I am carrying his child, for instance. I think that woman who lean on their man for finances and such without providing him with anything, are doing something wrong. But I am sure that is in line with RPW thinking.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that's the kind of situation this woman was getting at. She would probably consider a SAHM as someone who the man has power over, completely disregarding the power a SAHM wields in keeping the home and children in good condition. Tragic, really.

    [–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I guess it depends on the circumstances in which the statement "You wouldn't have that if it wasn't for me" was made.

    If my husband punched me in the face and said he was entitled to do so because he pays the mortgage, I would tell him to go fuck himself and go home to my parents' basement if that's what I had to do.

    If he made that statement because I was bitching about how he has to work late often, then he would be completely justified.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It seems like it isn't a devaluation of the non-monetary things that men bring to a relationship, but more an expression that she want to be able to provide for herself. If a man were to be able to say "you wouldn't HAVE that if not for me" it would be referencing a material object, I assume; I definitely read this as referencing financial wealth, not things like kids, a family, activities you may share, etc. It shows that she is willing to fulfill the difficult half of feminism, which is the struggle in today's economy to work/earn, that is often reserved for men. Even if she does value the physical, romantic, or intellectual characters of her spouse, he won't be able to say that statement if she is working to provide for herself.

    Honestly I prefer these kinds of statements over things like "I deserve a higher wage" or "I deserve to be treated as good as men" because, at least, this statement incorporates the process behind deserving equality, which is undergoing a struggle that is comparable to men's. So many feminists focus on the benefits men receive and not on their sacrifice. She is saying she is willing to sacrifice in order to justify being equal (in terms of power) to men, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    In today's age victim mentality rules.

    [–]xBreakFreex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I’m assuming she’ll still accept and expect money from the government though. Lol.

    [–]TankVet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    There are a lot of things that couldn’t be achieved alone. That notion seems to offend the pathologically independent sentiments of some folks, but I believe it’s true. No man is an island.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Also, what are the red and yellow dots I see by some usernames?

    I thought it was something leftover from the old flair system, it could denote gender, relationship status, time in a relationship, and age. Pink was a woman in a relationship, yellow was a single woman, green was a single man, and light blue (maybe?) was a man in a relationship. I shouldn't remember that though, I need to get myself checked for mild autism.

    I think independence is great and gratitude is great. It seems like this dialogue makes out the woman and hypothetical man to both be "protesting" rather than "connecting", to use EFT couple's therapy terminology.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm okay with a man having the power to say that but not okay with a man actually saying that. The statement is degrading and I won't stand for it. Specially not from my SO.

    [–]ConservativelyRight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think this is less of a problem of financial dependence than it is with the guy just being a dick.

    I'm a guy and would never say this to my woman.

    I think it's important also to recognize it can go both ways. Women often pull the "You would be nothing without me!" card since they've been helping their men along through their various struggles. What am I supposed to do? Make sure she doesn't ever lift a finger so she can never say that to me? So I think you're kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Men and women help each other in various ways, so I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman being financially taken care of by her man. And beside that, this is less of a male issue, and more of a moral issue. Should you say this sort of thing to your partner? I would say never, unless it's a joke.

    [–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Also, what are the red and yellow dots I see by some usernames?

    Those are remnants of the old flair system. They are meaningless color-coded flairs with no text. They will be going away.

    [–]DarqWolff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That sucks, for them and everyone.

    [–]zymbosa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Okay, the only man that would say something like that is in a situation where a woman truly did absolutely nothing to deserve something. In which case, she deserves to had that said to her, and it's not just a female connotation. I wouldn't have a lot of things if it weren't for my parents, friends, etc. but I'm not getting butthurt or selfish about it, rather I'm paying it back in gratitude and giving them something in return. Relationships in general should be like being in an elevator-every time you go up a floor you send the elevator back down to pick up your friend. Generally good to live by this in life too, unless you want to have more than a few enemies and no solid trustworthy assets in your life. This acquaintance of yours is why I hate facebook.

    [–]ventuspilot -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    This is funny because your acquaintance probably typed her post on a computer or phone that was delivered by men on roads built by men, powered by electricity provided by men, sitting in a house built by men.

    [–]JJ33141 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Bingo

    [–]JJ33141 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    She’s too late: the invention of virtually every appliance used in modern times, as well as the maintenance of most of the infrastructure of modern society was faciliated by men who can justifiably say this to this woman. But, y’know, at least she knows how to trash talk.

    Additionally I have not heard too many men talking like this. And most of the time when I have it’s men who are doing this in reaction to toxic feminists, to counter the all the male bashing and lies, so I’m fine with it.