58
59

THEORYHolding frame (when he drops it) (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by aftertheafter-party2 Star

In a marriage or LTR, there will obviously be times when a man cannot maintain frame. This can be either a challenge for us to maintain respect & attraction OR an opportunity for us to practice love, generosity, & support.

A recent example from my life:

My husband has been having a difficult week at work, & he had a particularly terrible day yesterday. Usually, he goes to the gym every day after work, but the past 2 days, he has skipped his workouts & instead wanted to take walks in the park with me. We enjoy walking together, usually on the weekends, & we often walk holding hands while he gently leads us on whichever path or to a cafe or whatever.

Yesterday, however, he literally could NOT lead. He almost walked us into oncoming traffic (exaggerating here, but usually he is SO cautious & deliberate), he kept kind of driving me off the side of the path, etc. He kept asking me questions: where should we go, how long should we walk, should we go this way or that. At one point, another man saw us walking, & he actually commented to correct the way my husband was leading me.

Anyway, regardless of my slight feelings of impatience, annoyance, & “unsafe-ness,” I continued to let my husband lead. I let him lead when he chose my least favorite path on the side of a busy street, when he walked on the road instead of the sidewalk, & when he led us a mile out of the way to a store neither of us like to buy a thing we didn’t need. When my husband asked me if he was doing ok after the man criticized him, I assured him his way was acceptable & he is a good man.

My husband wasn’t acting like the man I most often see, but I was able to choose to treat him with the same amount of respect & deference. I know the reason he was seemingly weak (skipping workouts, asking me for directions) & distracted (wandering paths & odd navigational choices) was actually that he is focused on being the best provider he can be, & he has about 1000 different pieces of 5 different puzzles moving around in his mind right now. He was captaining an invisible ship, & I was able to believe in & respond to the ghost of his vanished frame.

As a result, I feel closer to him, & I feel more empathetic & grateful toward how hard he works. I know he appreciated me as well, because he stopped in the middle of the path while we were walking, took my hands, kissed me, & asked if I would stay married to him.

TLDR: When you are committed to a good man, you can choose to give him his frame even when he drops it. This allows a man to have safe space / “a soft place to land” without him feeling constant pressure to “be a man” & without you losing respect or attraction.


[–]Captainsgirl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Here is the thing I can't emphasize enough. Men are tough, and strong, and above all, willing. But they are still just human, and as humans they need love and sweetness and understanding,just like we do. My husband is (on the outside) the toughest guy I know. I have no doubt he would kill someone to protect me. BUT. I also have no doubt that he loves it when I throw my arms around him and tell him how much I love him. I smile at him and kiss him and tell him how much he means to me, and he likes it. And why shouldn't he? Why should any human be immune to being told "you are loved and wanted and appreciated!" No matter how tough your tough guy is, as a woman I highly recommend jumping into his arms with a big smile and covering him with kisses and smiles and affection. I doubt you'll go amiss.

[–]indivisibleremainder 10 points11 points  (0 children)

believe in & respond to the ghost of his vanished frame.

poignant

[–]fairydust91 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Never heard the phrase but we are in a similar position and I am loving the opportunity to be his safe space. Like us, men also go through tough times. Considering hes held me down for years, I am happy to do it for him

[–]lord-denning 6 points7 points  (8 children)

I cannot confirm enough the importance of this concept.

This kind of strength is the basis of the old phrase “There is a woman behind every successful man,” which of course has now fallen out of use because women have forgotten the skill of how to support a man.

Red pill men recognize how difficult it is for a woman to act against some her urges to needle or nag a man when he is down. There is a great, short scene between a mother and daughter at the end of the movie Spanglish that captures this concept well.

If you can find a red pill man who is on a mission, and you can show how you can indirectly support him on that mission, it can lead to a virtuous circle that draws you ever closer together.

[–]aftertheafter-party2 Star[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

how difficult it is for a woman to act against some her urges to needle or nag a man when he is down.

This is the part that is so heartbreaking... it would be easy (almost intuitive) to do this -- but this is the exact thing that would make him feel like he is failing on all fronts (even when I, as his partner, see how absolutely invaluable he is -- how incredible, amazing, & impressive he is in all ways).

So it requires a little bit of extra work, but I will make sure he knows I think he is the smartest, most beautiful, most capable human I have ever known.

[–]lord-denning 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Nagging can be easy and intuitive for many women, yes. But men don’t think this way and (as you have obviously realized) it can have a very negative effect. Many women don’t have this level of self-awareness.

[–]SKRedPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More than nagging, the worst thing I see going on these days is micromanaging. Don't turn him into a bot that breathes on command the way you want it so that strangers approve of it -- he'll hate you and you'll hate him for being a bot with no spine of his own.

Life won't get any more 'perfect', and you'll lose the relationship.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

    [–]Pixie03103 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I didn't see anything in this comment to lead me to think they were saying a woman shouldn't work, or even anything related to career / work. It's about knowing how to support your man, whatever his goal or endeavour, and how that can bond you as a couple.

    Supporting your man doesn't mean you don't also have a life of your own. But when it comes to career / supporting the family, that's more of the man's role, and our role as women is a secondary and supportive one. That does not negate our individual female success at work, as mothers, at home, or in whatever other ways we find our own fulfilment.

    [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Your questions indicate a lack of understanding of RPW principals therefor you cannot be a helpful contributor to this sub. Men are advised to spend time on the male subs before they should even consider participating here. Please work on yourself at TRP/MRP before returning to RPW to comment.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      RPW was not created for men to ask questions of the women. If you cannot contribute content that is useful for the women, you cannot contribute.

      My explanation as to why your comment was removed is not an opening for discussion or debate. Banned

      [–]DebatePony 5 points6 points  (5 children)

      At one point, another man saw us walking, & he actually commented to correct the way my husband was leading me.

      Wut? Are you serious?

      I get what you're trying to say on your post. There are times when you need to support and love your spouse even when they are not able to love and support themselves, but isn't that just "being in a relationship?" If you noticed that your husband was leading you a mile out of the way, why didn't you just kindly point that out to him and carry on with yalls walk? Imo a good "first mate" would be able to do that without threatening the "captain."

      [–]aftertheafter-party2 Star[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

      We just took a longer walk that day. No problem : )

      [–]DebatePony 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      Right, but if the captain is impaired is up to the first mate to keep the ship on course.

      Also, what do you mean when you said some random guy commented on how he was leading you? Like that just doesn't make sense. "Yo, dude, why are you making your girl walk in the mud?"

      [–]aftertheafter-party2 Star[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Right, but if the captain is impaired is up to the first mate to keep the ship on course.

      As with any situation, I'm sure there were multiple ways to handle this well.

      He wasn't at full capacity perhaps, but he wasn't critically "impaired." We weren't lost or in danger, & the "mile out of the way" was to go to a shop, not an accident.

      I made a decision to just let him walk in peace, rather than suggesting a change in what he was doing (which, given his state of mind, could have easily felt like criticizing or nagging). He works very hard & deals with many different, complex situations (technical & relational), & he just needed a break from being pushed.

      "Yo, dude, why are you making your girl walk in the mud?"

      He actually said, "Hey, man, your girl's supposed to be on the inside," (meaning the part of the sidewalk further from the street).

      [–]DebatePony 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      We weren't lost or in danger,

      From the OP:

      He almost walked us into oncoming traffic (exaggerating here, but usually he is SO cautious & deliberate), he kept kind of driving me off the side of the path, etc.

      I get that you were being over the top in your OP but maybe try to be not so hyperbolic if it really wasn't that big of a deal.

      "mile out of the way" was to go to a shop, not an accident.

      From the OP:

      to a store neither of us like to buy a thing we didn’t need.

      & he just needed a break from being pushed.

      From the OP:

      He kept asking me questions: where should we go, how long should we walk, should we go this way or that.

      So, it seems to me that your husband really just wanted some input and you refused to take that burden. But you pushed him to make all the decisions when maybe he just wanted to relax and not make any decisions. And that is totally fine. There is nothing weak about wanting to take a break from making decisions. Especially silly decisions like where to go on your relaxing stroll.

      He actually said, "Hey, man, your girl's supposed to be on the inside," (meaning the part of the sidewalk further from the street).

      That's rude AF. What an ass that random person is. (Also, historically the male is supposed to be on the inside in case someone threw...waste water out their window.)

      [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm not sure why you are arguing with the OP but this isn't a debate sub. Stop.

      [–]OilyB 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      You ma'am, you must be an angel. Thanks for pointing out something that I've intuitively noticed but couldn't put my finger on - a lot of women can't stand a man losing frame. And that's okay, it's the job of any big man to keep his frame. But when he's your man, when you love him and trust him and have made your choice; And cover for him when his mind is occupied otherwise? That's advanced shit right thurr. To quote BB King: "That's the day when love come to town."

      [–]MissNietzsche 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Agreed. If the vetting process is over and you've already recognized him as a good man, there's zero reason to nitpick over things like this, especially because, as OP mentioned, he was already working hard to keep the ship afloat elsewhere. With your unwavering support, he'll probably eventually surprise you, but I still see it as my job to take care of my man in the same way he does me, regardless of anything that happens.

      [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      • 1 Star from me for this lovely post

      [–]aftertheafter-party2 Star[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Thank you!

      [–]aussiedollface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I really needed this post. Thankyou. I’m still learning how to deal with instances where my husband loses frame. It’s hard because it really turns me off, but he’s also human and has a lot of stresses with work etc. I find it happens more frequently when he’s stressed with work and has a lot going on. I used to sulk and get irritated! I do still have a lot to learn and practice in terms of controlling this, and supporting him regardless of the situation. My husband gets “lost in his head” sometimes and im still learning to navigate this xo

      [–]velvetcade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Anyway, regardless of my slight feelings of impatience, annoyance, & “unsafe-ness,” I continued to let my husband lead.

      Relatable. This is a good reminder for me to practice STFU when my captain veers us into a strange path, physically and metaphorically. I'm glad RPW exists because I get to learn how to handle situations like this in a way that is sensitive to masculine and feminine natures, and to be grateful for the lessons they impart on us.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

      [–]Pixie03103 Stars 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I'm not sure if there's a term for it, but I would say there is (or should be) a female equivalent. Not that most non-RPW know it or honor it, but then again, not a lot of BP men know about frame, either.

      Really, if you know RP as a woman, you should be exhibiting a lot of self-control yourself, in relationships and getting to know men. We have to fight off our hamsters. We have to fight off our inborn urges to branch swing. We have to fight off the social conditioning that teaches us everyone should love us just the way we are, and we are inherently wonderful and perfect even if we're fat / miserable / difficult / disrespectful / unskilled. Those are all things that can start to show if we drop our female version of frame.

      No, we shouldn't always just 100% let it all hang out. No, we shouldn't expect people to adore and praise us when our girl-game is weak. Of course - when we are in an LTR and loved, there will be times we slip, and ideally - our mate still supports and loves us. Just like in OP. But answering your question about female frame - yeah, I think it does exist in a practicing RPW. It's holding yourself properly, taking care of yourself, taking care of your family, making the smart decisions about diet, beauty - even when it's easier to be a gross slob.

      Idk, that's how I see it, but I don't really see it as sad for either party to work hard to maintain self-control, presentation, and a certain amount of dignity - even though it will be expected for everyone to have weak moments.