Hello fellow RPWomen. I wish you the best for 2015.
There was a thread that said that the RP is much tougher to swallow for women, but it was pretty emotionless and impersonal, so I wasn’t satisfied. That's why I’m making a new thread where I’d like you to share your experience with the The Red Pill:
1. What were you like pre-red pill?
2. How did you discover the red pill?
3. What has it taught you? How has it affected you negatively and positively?
In this other thread I talked about, /u/blueWidow raised an interesting question that was not answered by anyone. I’d like that to be addressed here:
4. How did you manage to come to terms with the harsh red pill truths without becoming jaded?
The sidebar says that, for men, taking the red pill is like a grieving process::
I think it’s the same for women. I’m going through that process right now and I’m currently stuck at stage 4. And a little bit of 2.
I think that if I had found a testimony that described my experience on the internet, it would have helped me understand myself better and feel less alone. I'm writing this for people who need the help I needed and didn't find.
Disclaimer: When I say "women/men are like this", I speak about the vast majority, I understand that there are exceptions to the generalizations that I make.
Here's my experience:
I’m a low SMV female. I'm physically a 3/10. Because of bad genes, not because I let myself go.
I couldn’t get attention by looking nice, so I tried to work on my personality to be more attractive, but I don't have much going for me, so that didn’t work out well either. I spent most of my life as the awkward kid who struggled to make and keep friends, let alone boyfriends.
My only consolation back then was my hope that I would meet a guy who would love me despite my looks one day. I was an avid reader of feminist literature that said that behavioral sex differences are not innate, men like the same traits in women that women like in men, etc. and these ideas gave me hope that I could maybe still find a good partner.
But I also couldn’t help doubting that feminists (=females) were a reliable source about male preferences. So I searched the internet for male opinions and that's how I found the manosphere. It was anti-feministic so I found it very uncomfortable to read, but I couldn't turn a blind eye to the fact that the sexual strategies it promoted were effective. I spent days reading RP theory and I was surprised to discover what men were really like, not what mainstream culture said that they should be. I suspected that men and women were attracted to slightly different things, but I didn't expect that the differences were that big.
It turned out that women most importantly valued strong, confident, intelligent, driven leaders who made them feel safe and loved, as I already knew.
But men most importantly valued young, fertile, chaste, deferential, physically beautiful women who nurtured them and satisfied them sexually.
This sucked. I wished that this wasn’t reality, but it was and I was stuck in it and it sucked.
Why did I hate that men are attracted to the things they’re attracted to?
Youth & fertility & beauty: These features are so damn transient. We lose those no matter what we do. It's frustrating that our SMV depends on things we have almost no control over.
Fashion, dieting and exercise can help, but when you’re ugly, these things don’t make you beautiful, just maybe decent. I can pray to be saved by wife goggles, but still... so damn out of my control.
Chastity: This must suck for high libido women, but it was pretty easy to accept for me, because my sex drive is so low that I have close to zero interest in casual hookups anyway.
Sexual satisfaction: The problem is, the low sex drive would be a serious issue in a LTR. I knew that men had a higher drive, but not to the extent that RP taught me. RP made me aware of the fact that sex is a physical urge to men, they must have it often (either with a partner or alone). As a woman, arousal isn't as easy to stir, so I realized that I wouldn't be able to keep a man satisfied without regularly forcing myself to have sex that I’m not in the mood for just for him.
I found the idea of forcing myself to have sex like it's a chore so unromantic it was repugnant. That's not what mainstream culture says that married life will be like. Mainstream culture says that sex needs to be a special expression of love that's enjoyable for both partners, so if she's not in the mood, it's not happening and he should just respect that lest he objectifies her. The fact that RP contradicted this rubbed me the wrong way because RP desacralized sex.
I felt even more pressure after RP taught me that men need sex to feel close to their mate and not having it makes them feel painfully undesirable and not loved. I would feel loved and desirable just with cuddling, lots of hanging out together and occasional sex. It was hard for me to believe that this wasn't enough validation for men.
RP also taught me that sexual monogamy was a great struggle for a man. Even when in love with one woman, he fights the urge to have sex with many different women. And even when he's 50, his sexual preference remains set on the looks of 18 year old girls, so he can lose desire for his wife that he loves because she changed so much with age that she's too far from his natural standard. Mainstream culture says that he should desire the person he loves even after 40 years of being together, but apparently men just aren't wired that way.
I think that his personality would make him desirable to me even after he lost his looks with age and I don't have this need for sexual variety at all. The fact that my man would never be able to reciprocate such exclusive and long-term desire for me was another painful slap in the face of my romantic ideals.
Nurturing: That means being sweet, playful, receptive, sensitive, supportive.
I hated this because it’s a trait that is so easy to have.
Women's standards for a mate push men to be as powerful as they can be, but men's standards for a mate don't. They are low standards in comparison, which means that high SMV men have a myriad of high SMV women as options.
This RP truth made me feel insecure about my ability to keep a man, knowing that my high SMV man could very easily replace me with one of the many other women who fit his low standards. So much for feeling special.
Deferential: This one is about the Captain/First Mate dynamic that is advocated on here.
My problem with this was that I had trouble accepting the RP idea that women are naturally more attracted to nurturing roles while men are naturally more driven to go outside and conquer the world, as opposed to the feminist misconception that women and men are naturally the same in that regard. It explained why men have invented and built so much more. This truth was painful to accept because it makes me feel inferior to men.
As First Mates, we assume the supportive role while men are being CEOs, doctors, engineers, etc. And society values men for their achievements because only a limited number of people can do what they do. The male role is prestigious and elitist, whereas nobody stands in awe before the woman who does the child-rearing and the housework behind the curtains. Most people can do what she does, so society doesn't value her work. Value positively correlates with rarity. This led to the conclusion that, to society, feminine traits are inferior to masculine traits. (“value to society” =“societal value” from now on.)
As a woman, I hated this conclusion. Being of inferior societal value just felt humiliating and demoralizing.
The RP fact that men prefer feminine (=nurturing) women only added to this feeling of humiliation. It meant that women’s sexually valuable personality traits are traits that have inferior societal value than men’s sexually valuable personality traits. Feminism didn't raise me to be okay with that fact. It raised me to find the male preference for societally inferior traits in their mates demeaning, so that’s how I felt. Offended, degraded.
And to make things worse, it turned out that even I preferred mates that I'm inferior to. I was raised to want an equal relationship, but my own body betrayed me by responding more favorably to dominant, powerful men than to betas, so feelings of embarrassment and self-depreciation ensued.
When I encountered one of those chauvinist man-trolls on the internet who like to rub it into women's faces that they have superior societal value and they have it better because they're men, it got under my skin, but there was nothing I could say back because it was all true. It made me frustrated and jealous.
Yes, I began wishing that I was a man.
Because high SMV men have high societal and sexual market value and they hit the wall when they’re, what, 45?
Because even low SMV men don't have it so bad compared to low SMV women. They can work on their SMV whereas us, ugly girls, better luck out and find a male freak of nature who does not care about looks or we’re screwed.
Because feminism said that we “need men like fish need bicycles”, but RP taught me that it's actually men who don't need us as much as we need them. It's like nature designed men to be the self-sufficient high achievers and we’re the dependent sidekicks who they keep around just because we give them sex, babies, compliments to make them feel like goddamn superman and back rubs when they need a break from being awesome. They don't need romance to feel happy/complete in life, they only need sex that bad. And their SMV lasts longer than ours, so they have the power to leave us for a younger, higher SMV woman after 15 years of marriage. They won’t necessarily do it, but they can and we can’t. We're at their mercy.
What woman wants to hear that?
It’s not just RP's portrayal of men that I found strongly repulsive, women's portrayal was worse: flat out incapable of romantically loving an equal or inferior man, naturally more inclined to not be introspective, to be irrational, disloyal, selfish, fickle, to "swing branches" and to perform annoying shit-tests. RP men made us sound like unruly children that they have to put up with and keep in check with “Frame”. I had the emotional impulse to reject that unflattering portrayal, but I also knew that I had to accept that that’s reality. RP men have more experience with dating women than I have and they all agree on these things, so I assume that what they say about women's bad attitude in relationships is true, even though I don’t personally observe it.
Having said all this, I think I can safely conclude that pride/feeling humiliated is the biggest hurdle to swallowing the RP as a woman from a feminist culture. It might be difficult for you to sympathize with feminists, but their struggle is real (no pun intended). For some of them, denying gender essentialism and pushing girls to be more masculine is just a way to protect their self-esteem by proving that women have as much societal value as men. Their denial of reality has the potential to be annoying, but I can only feel compassion for them because I can relate so well.
I’m jaded. I'm in my late teens, but I already feel like I don't have much to look forward to.
I used to swoon over romance movies and dream of Everlasting Love. To me, love was this wonderful, transcendental, erotic power that connected two Soulmates and made their lives complete forever. Then I swallowed the RP and love was demoted to simple economics – callous talk about sexual markets, plates, orbiters, walls and primitive evolutionary instincts. The magic was gone.
And I know that I need to stop pity-partying and get the F over myself, but I can't get over it. I hate this reality. I hate the innate male/female difference. I'm stuck in stage 4. And a little bit of 2.
When I realized that I was wrong to put love on a pedestal, I considered giving up on LTRs altogether and being a WGTOW, but I doubt that I can be fulfilled in life just thanks to friendships and personal achievements, like a man can. I'm scared that if I do this, I’ll end up as a lonely, regretful old cat lady.
Not very appealing, amirite?
I'll see what the future holds...
TL;DR your testimony: RP killed some of my romantic beliefs when it taught me how different men's sexuality was and how much less they crave love relationships with women than women do with them. It also taught me that male standards for a good mate are transient and relatively easy to meet. Easy standards means that men's mates are more easily replaceable and transient means that women's attractive power has an expiration date. Therefore I, as an ugly woman, think that my options are limited to:
1) Being with a high SMV man who will cheat/dump me for another female who is younger, prettier and less frigid at some point.
2) Settling for a secure relationship with a low SMV man that nobody wants and never having to worry about competition, but not being happy in that relationship.
3) Being insanely lucky and finding a man who will make me happy (and vice-versa) and find something special to love about me despite that I have so little to offer.
RP also taught me that sex differences are innate, so now I think that women are less valuable than men to society, because feminine traits are less "societally" valuable than masculine traits. It makes me wish I was a man. It feels humiliating and depressing for me to have low SMV and low societal value.
RP made me realize that my idea of love was an unrealistic fantasy. Laying bare all the rules and inner workings of the feeling stripped love of its magic and painted such a repulsive image of it that I became jaded. Now I consider being a WGTOW, but I doubt that this lifestyle will make me happy either. I don't know what I'll do.
This was my emotional journey. I'd like to read about yours too. Maybe venting on here will make swallowing the RP easier for you, like it does for me, so feel free to be verbose.
Feel also free to comment on/criticize my ideas, but with tact please, because I meant no offense, just honesty. I've read texts in the past about the pain of swallowing the RP for women, but most had an aggressive undertone that said "You don’t like it, huh? Well, deal with it, idgaf about your feeeels" and that's more irritating than helpful. I think that tact, togetherness and compassion is much more conductive to emotionally accepting the bitter red pill, which is what this thread is about.
Thank you for reading. Especially if you read everything.