65
66

ADVICERP truths vs Feminism -- I need some encouragement! (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by BlueberrySea

Hi everyone, I just need to go on a little rant if that's alright with you. Please let me know if you've ever felt the same and how you come to terms with this.

So, like a lot of us here:

Literally EVERYONE around me has always been supportive of feminism. I am in academia and anything that doesn't automatically spew out feminist ideals is INTENSELY frowned upon. I grew up thinking I should focus on my career and that I should be powerful and competitive and never EVER trust any man and never EVER let go.

I've been in a LTR with the same wonderful man for over 11 years now and am 28 so I didn't mess things up in terms of what RPW teaches. I love him so much and feel privileged and lucky to have met him so young and stayed with him. Ever since I found TRP and RPW (3 years ago) I have always 'accepted' RP truths and became obsessed with these sub reddits and the relevant blogs.

However, I kind of saw it as a sideline thing. Almost like a... I know it is not purely sexual but almost like a 'kink'... Something that you have a great attraction towards but it doesn't mean you want to completely change your life and relationship in that direction. It just felt like a delicious rebellion against feminism, which always felt oppressive to me. So reading these things were a relief.

But I obviously I ended up changing things in my life bit by bit: started acting and feeling more feminine, stopped competing with men.... never wanted children and am now seriously considering it.... I have lost weight... I am working out daily.... I STFU... I am trying to make my partner's life better in every way I can...I have been cooking for him and cleaning more.... I am much more comfortable with sex now that I understand the dynamics a bit better.

I feel like I am finally figuring out what it means to be a woman... and damn it.. IT FEELS GOOD! It feels right. It is liberating to not be angry and being told I am an oppressed victim all the time. It feels amazing not to have to compete and be tense 24/7. Also, my relationship is much better. My SO is so happy and my changes are causing amazing changes in him too and I'm so excited for the future!

But the fact that RP truths feels so right is disturbing to me, right now. I am just scared that maybe it is all true. Maybe we are in fact different from each other, men and women. Maybe women do really crave leadership. Maybe we do love feeling beautiful.

I'm just worried as I let go into this that there is in fact a patriarchy and that I am being internally misogynistic by acting in RP relevant ways. Has anyone here ever felt the same fears? How did you deal with them?

You know, ironically, feminism teaches us that femininity (or feminine characteristics) in its traditional sense is inferior and laughable. And as I accept my femininity more and more. I can't help but to feel like now I am inferior. Less relevant.

It's just amazing that it takes a community labeled as misogynistic to make me accept my femininity and womanhood.

I'm just scared that I am missing something at some point here. Do the feminists see something I'm not seeing? Do they have it right?

I appreciate this might not be the right place to discuss feminism but I am sure people here must have had some inner conflict too. Please let me know how you worked it out! Thanks :)


[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

I had inner conflict at first, too. I eventually reconciled it by understanding that I can wear 'pants' at work, and defer to my captain at home.

I've never considered myself a feminist, but I have been fiercely independent and masculine for most of my life.

Adopting RPW principles in my life felt right, even though I had intellectual objections at first. I would rather feel that things are right, than feel miserable because I thought myself into a corner with feminism.

It really helped me to think about, and really understand, the biological differences between men and women. If we were built to do the same things, why would we be separate and different?

[–]2-3-or-not-2-3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I also had to come over a bump to get there. For me on deferring to my Husband, It wasn't a feeling but a thought process:

If there is a decision to make on a pathway to take then how are decisions made. If its a single individual then they assess the options and follow what they deem best. If it is a group, then it can either be led by an individual, by a group, or by vote (democracy). But, when there are only 2 people involved there is no conflict decision making mechanism possible. If both sides disagree then it is a zero sum game where there is 1 winner and 1 loser. Who should win and loose? Do we switch between decisions and thus lack a consistent path (poor strategy), do we flip a coin and randomly decide which also lacks consistency.

Ultimately I came to the position that one of the reasons I married him was that he was one of the smartest men I had ever met and I could trust him. The only solution to the decision conflict would be that one person leads and since I acknowledged he was intelligent and also had my best interest in heart it should be him. And by doing this I am not "losing" if a decision doesnt go my way, I am supporting the teams strategy

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I find it funny that an ideology that discourages femininity and traditional feminine behavior has the audacity to call those who embrace it "misogynist". They the platform of free-choice for women, but only as long as that choice is in their pre-approved list of choices.

Let me ask you this: Are you happy? Are you hurting yourself or anyone else? If your answers are yes, and no, respectively, then I see no problem with what your doing.

The thing with feminism, is that it relies on women's tendency to seek approval from others, and particularity each other, as part of it's campaign for women to accept it (while also claiming that women having fundamental tendencies is not-a-thing). But having the approval of other women doesn't get you anything tangible, and it certainly doesn't give you anything you really want. There is no benefit to pleasing a bunch of people you don't know, while there are benefits to pleasing your boyfriend (that you've already seen).

It's okay that you're a natural born people-pleaser, just focus that energy on someone who gives you something in return for that effort, otherwise if you give without getting anything in return, eventually you'll have nothing left.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me ask you this: Are you happy? Are you hurting yourself or anyone else? If your answers are yes, and no, respectively, then I see no problem with what your doing.

What are you doing? Why are you bringing your dirty libertarian attitude into a discussion of the glorious Marxist Feminist truths? You must be a cishet racist homophobic Trump supporter!

/sarcasm off, but I've had this happen to me almost word for word in seriousness.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (12 children)

The truth is, the natural world balances things. Sometimes that balance doesn't feel correct within society. Except that society really doesn't mean a damn thing.

To make it a little easier to understand what I mean here are some examples.

A man's skull is typically larger than a woman's skull to have some more cushion for impact. This would mean that a women's physical structure is inferior to that of a man's when faced with a scenario that can lead to head injury. However a woman's hippocampus is larger than that of a man's which handles a lot of things. One important aspect is the ability to micromanage multiple scenarios at once. This means that a man is inferior to a woman in scenarios which require focusing on more than one thing at a time.

The problem is that throughout the ages, men did a great job of making their advantages sound awesome, while making female advantages seem small or insignificant. I always felt that feminism didn't go the right direction because it didn't play off woman's natural strengths and make the idea "seperate but of equal importance" more prominent. Instead it looked at what men had and wanted to compete there.

An example of what I mean let's take a look at jobs. Men are naturally better at combat (generally speaking). We have stronger bone structures, a hormone that makes us more violent, don't bleed once a month, and a knack for tactical thinking (spatial awareness and less emotional baggage for difficult decisions). Women are better at civil affairs, higher ability to empathize, understanding more perspectives, are less prideful in compromise (sorry if these statements aren't 100% accurate, but try and stick with me just for a second to get to the point). Why then don't women or feminist boost up the importance of that role rather than being envious of the role that men are better suited for naturally?

Women are better at a lot more things then men, it just seems that feminists wind up "scorning" those roles instead of changing the way people see them.

Perfect example is a housewife. This is quite easily the most important job in the world, but instead of trying to lift up housewives (because let's face it, men suck at being house husbands) and making the role more precious and wanted, they scorn it as something that is "low."

As much as I hate beyonce, she did something amazing. She changed the meaning of the word "diva" in pop culture. Instead of being ashamed of herself for being a diva, she owned it and made it a positive thing. If she had handled it the way feminists handle things, she would have made the word diva a bad word to keep people from calling her that and shamed them for not calling her an "alpha" which is typically a term for men, which men have built up as a positive term to begin with.

Ultimately I believe the sexes are separate but equal, but for some reason feminists would rather encroach on what men are good at instead of taking pride and propping up what women are naturally better than men at doing.

So no, I do not believe you are inferior, you just have a hard time seeing where you are superior because those points are not propped up by women in our day and age.

At the end of the day, the continuation of the species is what is most important. We have to all play our parts accordingly within nature in order to ensure that happens.

[–]Lib3rtarianSocialist 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Great piece of writing.

[–]subgirl182 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Exactly this! We need to respect and honor each others differences, that is what feminism is to me. I'm a woman, I have and nurture babies, I multitask and I hold the community together, that needs to be respected without diminishing anybody! How can you be a feminist and look down on everything that's good about women? x

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star[M] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Please remove your first paragraph, we don't care what gender you are, it's irrelevant.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

done

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks

[–]2-3-or-not-2-3 1 point2 points  (6 children)

To add/adjust to your point:

A man's skull is typically larger than a woman's skull to have some more cushion for impact. This would mean that a women's physical structure is inferior to that of a man's when faced with a scenario that can lead to head injury.

Studies have shown that (on average) the male brain is ~2% larger then the female brain (controlled for body size). However, the female brain has been show to have greater cortical thickness, complexity, and surface area (controlling for body size) which account for ~5-12% of variance. It is also been shown that where men use the prefrontal and mid cortices for intelligence, females rely more on Broca's area (language area). And, importantly, that they both obtain similar IQ results but do so through utilizing different brain regions and that there is no single neuroanatomical structure to 'optimize' intelligence.

So it is not just the skull, the brains of men and women are factually different in size, structure, and how they are used. But, despite these differences they arrive at roughly the same end point. I disagree with your opinion of:

Ultimately I believe the sexes are separate but equal,

They are different but equal, and the 'state-of-the-art' neuro science confirms this (simplified: mens brains are bigger, womens brains are denser)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Direct quote from a 'state-of-the-art' neuro science article:

"Women have more connections going left and right across the two halves of the brain. This could give them an advantage in pulling together information from different sources and drawing conclusions. The left half of the brain handles logical thinking, and the right is associated with intuition.

Men's brains have more connections from front to back, which may heighten their perception. They may be more attuned to what's going on around them so they can take action. Men have stronger connections between brain areas for motor and spatial skills. That means males tend to do a better job at tasks that need hand-eye coordination and understanding where objects are in space, such as throwing a ball or hammering a nail."

Despite the fact that we can arrive at the same IQ overall, which is arbitrary to begin with, there are portions of tests like those that men will score higher than women and vice versa. In fact an IQ, or similar, test is the perfect example of my point, seperate but equal, done correctly. The test is seperated into different parts that carry equal weight to your overall score. Which means being a man or a woman wont give you an advantage.

[–]2-3-or-not-2-3 0 points1 point  (2 children)

State-of-the-art only means rescent ;).

It's not my specialization, and I dont know if you are disagreeing with what I stated. A year ago I did some research as part of a paper on education methods and wanted to understand the brain as it seemed like an important component to the topic... The studies I used to assemble information above are: Haier et al. (2004), Cosgrove et al. (2007), Elsevier (2010), and Paul et al, (2016)

To me it sounds like you are still describing different but equal; as separate but equal makes no sense except if we describe apartheid in SA or so - But maybe this is semantics, or maybe because English is not my native language... "Ultimately I believe the sexes are separate but equal", I think you are separate from a rock physically, intellectually, and probably among most aspects, but not-equal to the rock. But I think this is just nitpicking and outside meaningful argument.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On mobile now so may be bad grammar or spelling.

As I understand it, you are saying that despite there being a physical difference, the end result is the same. I am saying the end result is not the same, unless we correctly apply all equal seperate parts, such as the way an IQ test does it, which in itself lends to my opinion.

[–]BACONisKEWL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You guys are saying the same thing, it's just semantics.

[–]yyellowy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Mens brains are bigger to accommodate for their larger frame in comparison to women.

[–]2-3-or-not-2-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes. That is why researchers control for body size in their studies.

[–]aussiedollface 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Femininity has its own quiet strength, which is something all these new wave man-hating “feminists” fail to understand in my opinion xo

[–]xjnoodles 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Dont worry, I am also not a feminist. Its just a school of thought people have.

[–]sonder_one 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's called Orwellianism. Feminism is the opposite of what it claims to be.

The Nazis described Nazism as a wonderful thing that no decent person could oppose. Was it?

Stop feeling like you owe feminism anything.

[–]bunniebell1 Star 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Please remember that the whole point of feminism, in the beginning, was to give women a choice. Instead of being forced into working only in the home and bearing children, women could choose a different path. This is feminism at its core.

[–]UmbrellalikeWetness 27 points28 points  (3 children)

To me, this one of the huge failings of modern feminism, in that it's commonly espoused "You're a woman, you can have it all!" when that is not true.

You can have any of it. Not all of it though. You can have a high power career. You can raise a family. You can be independent. You can be an integrated part of a husband/wife relationship.

ALL of that? No. Pick some. And that's where I feel feminism as espoused by many is way off.

But it was never true for men either. Wealthy, high power career, sure... see your kids only an hour every other night and on the weekends. Vacation with your wife for a long weekend every couple years.

[–]stacysmom40 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You are exactly right and that is where I came to RPW. I had been told I not only COULD have it all, but I SHOULD have it all. The career, the kids, the husband, the house, etc.

The message that didn’t get through is that each of those things is a job in its own right and “having it all” really means working yourself to death, falling short left and right, and resenting the choices you made to get there.

I talk to my daughters about that exact concept: You can do anything, but you can’t do everything. It’s a hard concept for them to accept considering all the messages to the contrary they’ve been fed all their lives.

[–]whiskeyjack1983 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This a superb post. Cogent, direct, concise, and, most importantly, a fundamental piece of wisdom that needs more air time.

The fact that it almost feels un-American to state this very real fact is an indication to me that humanity has lost it's ever-loving mind. I am grateful to see people like you staying commited to truth, regardless of how ill-liked it is.

[–]bunniebell1 Star 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes! You are so right. Just like men! ;)

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That ended with 1st wave Feminism.

[–]Hermeticas 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You need to realize that you are still evaluating worth and relevance through what seems to be a largely feminist lens. Viewing femininity and feminine contributions to relationships/society as less than because your previous feminist ideas/indoctrination has lead you to view them that way. So firstly I would advise you to stop evaluating your worth and/or seeking emotional/intellectual validation from people/ideas that fundamentally disagree with you.

The great folly of so called 'progressive' thought is that it seeks to change how people live to be 'just' and/or 'better' according to artificial human political thought and perception... with small to nonexistent regard for human nature itself.

You obviously identify very strongly with RPW teachings/ideas.

This is, at core, because they are more in line with legitimate human nature than feminism is.

RPW teaches you to seek the better outcome for yourself by recognizing the real human factors and stakes and making your decisions in accord with them. Feminism, at the most fundamental levels, doesn't.

The choice with feminism is relatively pure and simple as I see it. If you follow it you are choosing to live a life that is out of sync with human nature because you don't like what human nature is, in and of itself. Or you could lead a much happier and more fulfilled life (personal bias freely acknowledged) with far less effort emotional distress by learning to live a better life that is more in accord with that basic human nature (RPW).

Human nature isn't about to change just because a bunch of people got together and decided they didn't like the look of it.

Does that add up to Patriarchy? That is a more complex question... but largely I think a less relevant one. The overbearing and oppressive Patriarchy that is the bogeyman of Feminists is ... largely an illusion. The vast majority of men are not 'out to get' women, or to keep them down. But this doesn't change the fact men still hold the vast majority of manufacturing, industrial, logistical, and security/military jobs ... pretty much everywhere the world over.

So ... if the Patriarchy exists ... it also very much exists in the realm of the abundance and security that largely men provide to society as well.

But again, so what?

Does that mean you have to be unhappy about any of it? Again ... human nature isn't going to change just because people don't like it. Women aren't going to start going out in large numbers especially hunting construction jobs that they don't really like/enjoy just to 'beat the man'.

The lens of viewing these differences in the sexes as a moral indictment is the flaw, in and of itself, rather than the differences themselves.

Instead I would urge you to take advantage of the improved perspective that RPW gives you to appreciate those differences and what they mean ... and assign your own value/validation accordingly. Or to recognize that at the very least that validation and/or valuation should now be something you seek from a source in accord with your new values and beliefs.

[–]Honey_Mommy_82 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Many older feminists remember the bad old days when things WERE bad. When women did get paid $2 hour for the same job with the same title, a man got paid $4/hour for. They remember when at 16 all the perverts popped out of the woodwork to deflower you, and God forbid you let one! When getting married and that ring on your finger meant protection and social status. When you had to go with your husband to the bank to get a savings account opened. When girls were told they stupid. Back when men felt entitled to grope and publicly leer at single women in a way that makes modern "street harassment" look like a fucking joke. Back when there was a "patriarchy"!

But it's gone and dead. It's 2018, and anyone who acts in the way above now is either socially ostracized or put in jail. Seriously.

I do feel like sometimes feminists point out behavior that is in fact gendered. BUT! They conflate it with a conspiracy that no longer exists. They refuse to believe the biggest oppressors of women today are not men, but in fact OTHER WOMEN.

Have you watched any Jordan Peterson interviews? He speaks eloquently (well, to me a laywoman) and I found his videos informative.

[–]msslav 4 points5 points  (1 child)

They refuse to believe the biggest oppressors of women today are not men, but in fact OTHER WOMEN.

This. I wish more women realized this. Thank you.

[–]Honey_Mommy_82 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are very welcome!

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm just scared that I am missing something at some point here. Do the feminists see something I'm not seeing? Do they have it right?

I recommend the book Feminist Fantasies by Phyllis Schlafly. It's essays she wrote through the 1980s and 1990s. There tends to be this attitude, even around RPW that while feminism may have gone off the rails now, it's had no critics through the second wave. Feminist Fantasies gives you an idea of what the opposition looked like 30 years ago.

There have been women who have been standing up and saying "Hey this isn't right" for a while. Think of Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Sommers who have been crucified by the feminist movement for being critical of the false information that the movement has put out. They are treated like they are literal Nazis, suggesting genocide.

I found that the more I learned over the arguments, the more facts I heard, the more I read anti-feminist thinkers and evolutionary psychology and Jordan Peterson and all the other "Intellectual Dark Web" people speaking on gender topics... the more I realized that I could easily articulate what I believed now. When I thought that things like 'patriarchy' were real, I had a really difficult time actually discussing the topic if I was questioned. To me now, it's obvious this was because I was trying to force my brain to believe something that didn't innately make sense to me. I thought I had to because people smarter than I, believe it was so.

Your thoughts are precious and they should be uniquely yours. I think you are just shaking off the last bit of blue pill thinking.

[–]subgirl182 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I was a total feminist from the time I had children because, let's be honest here, being a mother in inherently unfair. It's us who suffer the discomfort and inconvenience of pregnancy and the pain of birth, who breastfeeds and as a result, never, ever, EVER, sleep lol, it's us who has the mothering instinct and therefor feel this huge responsibility/burden while our husbands swan off to work. I was also surrounded by strong feminist women all my life.

But then one day, I had an argument with a female MRA online. I got curious and started looking things up. I came across Jordan Peterson who simply said 'feminism doesn't make women happy' and a lightbulb switched on! I wasn't happy, I was angry. I loved my man but I couldn't bring myself to have sex with him after children because I felt like he just wanted to take from me and I already had two kids that were doing the same. I also treated him like a child and was beginning to wonder if I needed him at all. I also felt like I should do and be everything and be great at everything and was living with ALL the emotional/mental load while my husband was practically begging me to let him help.

Suddenly, I woke up. My man has put up with the absolute worst of me and got nothing back for the last 10 years. And do you know what? He's the most amazing person, he supports womens rights, he's an amazing husband and father, he works hard and has always been the main breadwinner. He takes on that huge responsibility without complaint and takes it very seriously. He's a strong person and a great leader and actually, he bloody good in bed lol.

He makes the big decisions now and runs our business, I run the household and care for the kids and only help with the business under his instruction and I LOVE it. People can look down on me all they want but the only person who's opinion matters is my husbands. At the end of the day, your work colleagues won't care about you like your family do. We are so much happier now and I enjoy sex again and I remember every day, how much I love and respect my man. He's not some asshole alpha that treats me like poop, we respect each other and each others roles.

It's sad that feminism has come to the point were we women are afraid to be good wives!

[–]subgirl182 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Btw I still call myself a feminist because I do believe in equal rights as a whole, I'm just no longer a radical feminist where I think I'm superior or that traditional roles should be looked down upon or that I'm some sort of 'victim' x

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Then call yourself a humanist. Feminism is irrevocably tainted.

[–]stoicstephen 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This you fighting logic with emotion.

You are seeing the benefits of following RPW values, and seeing that this dynamic is the natural one, but still you are fighting with old beliefs that are anti-natura and dangerous for healthy and balanced relathionships.

You just have to let go of the past and start seeing things for what they are, not how they make you feel.

Goodluck.

[–]WillMeatLover 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No one hates women more than feminists. They're people with mental problems that, among other things, hated their mothers. This is evident in their hatred of motherhood and belief that a woman can only be good if she emulates a man.

You being happier is exhibit A.

And as for feeling inferior, stop comparing yourself to men. You aren't in competition with men. Compare yourself to other women. Look at all the women who are (A) bitter, (B) unhappy, (C) childless, (D) alone, and/or (E) past the point of no return.

You have been fed a terrible life ruining lie all your life. Accepting that can be hard, but that doesn't change the truth.

[–]babyvera 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i am not a RP woman, but a non-radical feminist

So the thing about gendered roles is -- there is some truth in them. It may not be /everyone's/ truth, but for some people, they do fall into the constructed boxes of society. And as long as they aren't forced into the boxes, but naturally occupy them? That is, and should be, fine. It really only becomes a problem when someone is trying to shove someone into a box, and that is not where they want to be, or where they align at all. Some people might fit completely into certain boxes, and some people might only fit into some aspects of a box. Because -- humans are three dimensional, so not everything is cut-and-dry. There are different configurations for everyone.

The bottom line is: are you happy? If so, that's good. Do you feel like you're being forced into your current role / mindset? If no, then that's also good.

[–]zimtkuss 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I always say Feminism and RPW are not incompatible but I am aware I am an outlier in this group, and always will be. I’ve probably said that in ever post I ever make in here.

Part of that for me probably comes from the fact that RPW isn’t really something I ‘discovered’ or that ‘enlightened’ me, it’s literally how I was raised— and at the same time that I was raised that way I was never taught to limit myself. Women in my family have been accomplished even in times when women didn’t go to school. I’m talking accomplished as in being lawyers, public health work and disseminating birth control in the 1950s, or one who was even a mayor for 40 years in a dictator run country. Real power, but also real pearls, perfume and lipstick femininity, all while submitting to your man.

I’m sure holding on to all my femininity while owning my power is a cultural gift I have because I just don’t understand this false dichotomy between femininity and feminism that exists in the US and some parts of Europe. Sometimes the conflict seems so forced that I feel as though anyone who thinks you have to abandon femininity or emasculate men to be feminist, is just too stupid to figure it out. There’s also people who are basically trying to shame everyone about anything we do in society that wouldn’t fit into the almost genderless Plato’s Republic (which if you have not read it, negates womanhood, eliminates the family in the name of “equality” while almost but not truly treating women as equals) Those people pervert feminism in the name of “equality”.

How can anyone be a feminist when they turn their nose in disgust at everything traditionally female? Is birthing and raising children a menial task for the inferior sex or is it something labeled inferior because it’s inherently female? How can a woman be a feminist while wishing to erase all the traces of what makes her distinctly woman in favor of what makes her more like a man? That sounds more like self-hate than female empowerment to me. ¯(ツ)

[–]acekilo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm a man that's been all over the Asia Pacific and guess what, a lot more men are Marrying Japanese women all because of their feminity and knowing qualities of a woman. These feminist are being sponsored by the old politicians to use women for votes and for Women to destroy their sense of worth. It's sad that I don't find any woman in America attractive no more for a lot of reasons. I'm not here to bash women I'm just letting you know that I've been Married to a Japanese Woman for 13yrs with 3 kids and my life have been so much better without drama because she Understand and cherish her roles as a woman and mother. And as a man I appreciate it and supports her with everything she wants and needs. It's sad that so many women think it's cool to post half NAKED PICS on social Media. My wife respects herself not to and keep things private for me only. It's starts with the basic concepts of a woman knowing her body is her temple. A man will give a woman the world if she presents the standards of a real woman. So it depends on the men you attract as well. This goes both ways. A real man will CHERISH you because those women are hard to find in this day and age.

[–]puffpuffpastries 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I noticed your point Bout feminism too. I actually spoke to my husband yesterday about it, about how feminism demonized and trivialized traditional femininity and now the only way for women to be valid is to basically become men - talk like men, focus on things that men focus on, value those things to the exclusion of all others. Like you, the thought made me scared and inferior in the past, but then I began to become aware of the growing trends of misery and discontent within their community. Feminist women tend not to want feminist men (there are blogs and articles about it; they disrespect those men on twitter), they have much higher odds of being unable to achieve their goals of marriage and family, they wonder why men dont value their careers, I come and degrees as much as youth, domestic skills and a feminine disposition. All these realizations strengthened my ability to look into the feminist present and still feel firm in my resolve to do things the traditional way

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Feminists and Feminism bring discord, strife, and unhappiness to all around them. TRP tends to bring, if not happiness (hard truths are hard), then peace with oneself - peace with your nature, peace with your impulses, peace with your desires. If that doesn't reaffirm your choice for you, I don't know what will.

[–]zershia77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think about this a lot. I have a PhD in chemistry and take my career pretty seriously. I enjoy being in a man dominated field and get kind of annoyed when I'm bombarded with pro "women in STEM." Why do we need to shove encouragement down every women's throat that she needs to be equal to a man? So what if there are men dominated fields? Maybe men are generally better at these careers. Is that terrible of me to say? Any women I meet in my field are very feminist.

At home I very much want to be led by my husband. He is the man and I believe he should be in charge, even though we are intellectually equals. I try to follow RP practices but also be a dominant empowered woman at work in order to be taken seriously among men.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Things like women voting, being able to own property, get an education, and being able to choose their spouse and their profession are all great aspects of feminism (at least first wave feminism). But feminism (as you have learned) is not an ideology that works as a framework for romantic relationships between men and women.

[–]MarquisDePaid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are a lot of social/historical/biological revisionists who don't actually care what the truth is, what sort of social ideology is most desirable for people, or what makes people happier.

They care about "re-engineering" or "re-constructing" what social norms are, treating others like pawns in a "Civilization" game. It's fun for them. Let's consider such a goal "anti-social" in nature, whereas someone with "good" or "social" intentions would have a "pro-social" end goal for their ideology.

The problem with discussing "feminism" is there are in fact legitimate issues brought up in those movements/ideologies, they are simply woven to create an anti-social agenda.

Let me expand this discussion to a related but distinct field, "sexology", to show what I mean.

The "sexology" social engineers insist on using biological and evolutionary false data to support their conclusions that humans are some sort of magical "free love polyamorous LGBT++" species.

Vox in his video explained is a great example of this idiocy, using pure kumbaya revisionist narratives rather than actual facts, comparing Homo sapiens to other animals.

Here's a few biological/evolutionary indicators such people don't discuss;

Prairie voles are monogamous and are a good control subject to reference. Male prairie voles pair bond with the vasopressin hormone. Human males do the same. Gorillas do not have vasopressin reactions in their brains with mates. The "humans aren't monogamous" shit is leftist deconstruction

And these neo-leftists can be seen with their revisions on Wikipedia, if you look through the wikipage of "vasopressin" you'll see earlier pages mention the very relevant studies on human males and vasopressin studies wrt to relationship success, whereas more recent edits strangely remove that very fact.

There are female adaptations as well;

Another related feature, and one that appears to be unique to our species, is the retention of the hymen or maidenhead in the female. In lower mammals it occurs as an embryonic stage in the development of the urogenital system, but as part of the naked ape's neoteny it is retained Its persistence means that the first copulation in the life of the female will meet with some difficulty. When evolution has gone to such lengths to render her as sexually responsive as possible, it is at first sight, strange she should also be equipped with what amounts to an anti-copulatory device. But the situation is not as contradictory as it may appear. By making the first copulation attempt difficult and even painful, the hymen ensures that it will not be indulged in lightly. Clearly during the adolescent phase, there is going to be a period of sexual experimentation, of delaying the field in search of a suitable partner. Young males at this time will have no good reason for stopping short of full copulation If a pair-bond does not form, they have not committed themselves in any way and can move on until they find a suitable mate. But if young females were to go so far without pair-formation, they might very well find themselves pregnant and heading straight towards a parental situation with no partner to accompany them. By putting a partial brake on this trend in the female, the hymen demands that she shall have already developed a deep emotional involvement before taking the final step, an involvement strong enough to take the initial physical discomfort in its stride.

Source for this claim is the book, pg. 82- Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape: A Zoologist's Study of the Human Animal, 1st American ed. , 1967.

My advice

The words "feminist" and "anti-feminist" are pretty meaningless if you're talking to someone indoctrinated into those neo-progressive belief systems. It's better to simply re-brand your ideas as "pro-feminist" or "the real feminist".

[–]WhisperTRP Founder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, if you allow yourself to act or feel submissive, you feel guilty about not obeying feminism?

That sounds pretty submissive, too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

My challenge is... I’d love to stay home and raise my husbands kids and make skirts and write and read. I’d love to workout and make healthy food for us.

But I get my validation by using my brain and seeing things come to fruition. I don’t see it’s fair to rely on my husband (no matter how rp he is) to validate me.

I feel like I must work so that we can get ahead and get a good start.

To me, women will always feel pulled. Will always have dreams that can’t be fulfilled because our choices are so extreme in their polarities. We only have so much time in a day.

I just know I need to sit down with my SO and plan out what’s best for the family and trust his guidance. I say this because I’d have a tendency to over commit to things.

[–]subgirl182 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I work part time in my husbands business doing a job I love. It gives me validation and makes me feel productive and brings me out of myself unlike when I was home full time. You can find a balance if you find the right work that doesn't require you to sacrifice home life x

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish you luck with that.

[–]2-3-or-not-2-3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would consider myself a feminist but would consider that the 'movement' has gotten away from itself. I think it goes towards what you claim your worry to be:

I'm just worried as I let go into this that there is in fact a patriarchy and that I am being internally misogynistic by acting in RP relevant ways. Has anyone here ever felt the same fears? How did you deal with them?

It's my view that the feminist movement has perverted the idea of patriarchy and its no longer a meaningful term. If we look at 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits, we can see that the masculine ones (ie competitiveness, assertiveness, confidence, etc.) are advantageous for the societal system that we (humans) have designed. But, the purpose of this system isn't to 'give men an advantage' or 'oppress women', its to maximize individual productivity for the collective good. It isn't a patriarchy lead by men, its a meritocracy designed for productive output and that correlates with the 'masculine' traits. An alternative system where instead of competition between individuals, firms, political parties, we used cooperation (many now advocating this) would produce less and collectively we would (across the entirety) be worse off.

It would be just as easy to make the opposite claim to the feminist narrative that we all have to be the same: Men and their masculinity traits and busy acting as "human-do'ers", whereas women with their feminine traits are busy being "human-beings". How dare those feminist advocate that we stop being and focus on mere doing, right?

[–]LittleMissAfrodite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I live by the philosophy, "Do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else against their will." I can't see how embracing femininity and doing things which make you happy makes you a misogynist. Then again I'm not a feminist so I suppose It's not my definition to mold. If we are misogynists for embracing our femininity then I don't think that word has much weight. It's not an accusation I take seriously.

[–]Pixie03103 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I went through a big feminist kick in my life, so I get a lot of what you are saying.

For one thing, maybe someday people will evolve to a point where men and women are less different. Where the truths of RP aren't truths anymore. The idea of complete and total equality is maybe a nice one. But the theory of feminism / equality has developed and evolved faster than actual people have. The truth is, people aren't there yet. Men are still drawn to pretty, nice, and fertile. Women are still drawn to strong, firm, and successful. Our psychology is still in caves, even if our ideals have become more advanced and noble. So, until things change in our psychology - let's deal in reality, not ideals.

You know, ironically, feminism teaches us that femininity (or feminine characteristics) in its traditional sense is inferior and laughable.

That is ridiculously ironic. Feminism, which could celebrate what it is to be a woman, instead obliterates and downgrades femininity in favour of putting traditionally male qualities on a pedestal, and trying to copy them. Instead of celebrating women as equal but beautifully different, it belittles traditionally feminine traits (softness, beauty, kindness, receptiveness, motherhood, and on and on).

Feminism is an odd, self-hating thing. On top of that, women are objectifying and exploiting themselves and calling it feminism. Men don't even have to do the work anymore - they can laugh among themselves while so-called feminists degrade other women and sleep around. It's a bit of a mess.

So who really respects and celebrates women and all that women are, have been, and can be?

Tbh, the proof is in the results. You've seen the ways your happiness has increased and life has benefited from RPW. Compare that to the states of your counterparts.

Also noteworthy? You can be feminist and RPW - because feminism can be defined how you want it to be defined. I know in my heart men and women are equally valuable, amazing, and beautiful. I also know they are different in their psychology, with different strengths and desires.

Denying that apples are apples and oranges are oranges doesn't change the fruits. And different does not equal worse.

[–]likeaprometheancurse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I felt the same way, then I realized how unhappy everyone around me seemed and that it was obviously not the path to a healthy, intimate relationship.

An example:

One person I know who has children has two kids with two different men, and a different guy who she is now married to. He takes her children to school, works all day, then comes home and does everything around the house. I know this sounds like a BS story someone would tell on the MGTOW subreddit (lol), but I was at her house long ago and she said "babe I feel so bad that you cook and clean every night, shouldn't I do it?" and he said "no, I can't believe there are guys out there like that who expect that from every woman they meet, it's not the 50s". Yet he was expected to fill the provider role. They also talked about women who dress up for their husbands every day and she said "I can't imagine caring if my man saw me in nice clothes or not, I only put on makeup whenever I go out" so... you only care about how you look when you're around people who AREN'T your husband? What sense does that make?

That experience woke me up even though I was pretty young and hadn't heard of TRP. Just today my boyfriend told me about how he was talking about me at work and all of his coworkers kept saying how lucky he was. I don't think I would have that experience if I wasn't on RPW, honestly! He left me a note one time that said, "you're the only person who's made me feel that marriage could be a good thing" (We're young and definitely not ready to be married but I think he meant he's never seen a truly loving relationship until now). Seeing the way men respond to behavior that's considered "outdated" shows that it never should have gone out of style in the first place. Also, dismissing femininity and the things that make women special is sexist in itself! One time my bf was working on my car and had his friends over, one was another woman, we were chatting about sewing and someone said "what a stereotype". It was just a joke, but it got me thinking... yes, I DO fit many "stereotypes" for women, is that a bad thing? There's nothing wrong with being a woman, or not being one of the guys whatever that means. I spent a lot of my life thinking that the more I acted like a typical man the more interesting I would be. Nothing feels better than reclaiming your femininity. Good luck :)

[–]readingwithcoffee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think feminism has its place, such as in the workplace. I believe that to be an effective employee you often have to advocate for yourself but funnily enough it often helps to do so in a feminine way. However, I think feminism does not have a place in dating and relationships except in extreme situations such as abuse. Dating and relationships are where RPW teachings come in. I could be wrong, though.

[–]imdar3ald3al 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are just having trouble going through withdrawal from the way in which you are socialized. Society is ruled by government and government wants money. They get more money from women working since they consume much more than men and they can tax the other half of the population. Therefore, there's no surprise schools are oriented toward feminist ideology that wants women in the workplace.

But RPW teaches was is most conducive to all women but a select few who get off from having a weak, submissive partner. So just stay the course.

[–]DreamBoatGuy25 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally EVERYONE around me has always been supportive of feminism. I am in academia

I'm sure you already know this but academia is one of the biggest cults around and could easily give Scientologists and Southern Baptists a run for their money.

I think the answer to your conundrum isn't necessarily even about finding the answer, at least not the answer to "which school of thought is the correct one?" Strictly speaking the only movement/field of study/science that we know isn't complete horseshit is Physics, which also happens to use the only universally logical language: Mathematics.

So chances are whomever you're talking to is right about some things and wrong about most others, and so are we, and so is everyone else. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless of we decided to skip Kahneman's work, and operate under the assumption that homo sapiens are anything other than complete and total garbage at logic and reasoning.

Ultimately, we are, in fact, very fragile creatures who only exist in this form for a ridiculously short period of time. Or to put it more plainly, in universal terms, we're the equivalent of a bunch of talking fruit flies.

Given this fact, and our genetically coded innate desires, the only truly logical actions in life are ones that give us happiness. Happiness is the end all be all goal of our entire existence. So don't worry about what you're peers think, choose the path that makes you happy and go from there.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Feminism should be equality.

But in practice, it isn't. That's the problem.

I don't think feminism and RPW are incompatible

They are wholly incompatible because Feminism rejects biological (RP) truths about both genders. Intersectional Feminism is worse.