METANecessary Roughness (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by rprollerEndorsed Contributor

If you regularly browse RP subs, you'll often see men and their sexual market value (SMV) aging like fine wine. On the other hand, women and their SMV ages like milk. While these aren't necessarily bad ways to think about how SMV changes over time for both genders, I feel that it doesn't capture the journey and struggle each gender takes to obtain and maintain a high SMV. A better analogy for me is to compare men's SMV to a sword, and women's SMV to a flower. I'll start with the men's side.


Blacksmiths and Swords: The Development of Male SMV

A sword does not suddenly spring into being from the ground. It starts out as worthless bits of metal and minerals. After smelting those bits together, the blacksmith begins putting the hunk of metal over super-heated flames, hammering it to form its shape, dunking it into cold water to solidify that layer, then doing it all over again. And again. And again. And again, for as many times it needs for the sword to become a sharp, strong weapon. It isn't until it passes through many rounds of getting beat up and dunked into freezing water that a worthless piece of scrap metal becomes a lethal (valuable) sword. And even after it reaches its final shape, it still needs sharpening every once in awhile, lest it become dull.*

How does this relate to men's SMV? Men's value rests mostly on their ability to prove themselves--but they weren't born valuable. They started from nothing and had to constantly fight others (and themselves) to prove their worth. Us women understand this instinctively; don't we chase and lust after men who can stand on their own two feet, and fend us off from the lions? And don't we behave indifferently (or with disgust) to who don't know how to do anything/can't provide for us? It's highly unromantic, but that's the way it is. Anyone who characterizes women as "evil" because of this doesn't understand basic RP tenets. Specifically, that the dual mating strategy is neither bad nor good--it just is.

The reason why you see so many angry men on TRP is because they are still in the process of swallowing the pill. The virulent language you see on TRP makes it hard for most women to understand what TRP is there for. TRP is, among many other things, a proving ground for men to post about their successes and failures. It is the blacksmith heating up that hunk of metal until it's red-hot and ready to burn everything in its path, then plunging it into the freezing water that is the reality of the world we live in--over and over again. Those who remain angry may never find that balance in their understanding of the differences between male and female mating strategy. On the flipside, women who are too new to RP in general may read TRP and incorrectly believe that they have to become a plate and hope that they will maybe be promoted to LTR if they give their men blowjobs often enough. Or that they have to apologize for being a woman. These are reasons why we at RPW advocate against reading TRP until you've followed RPW for awhile.

*[Sidebar: I am not a blacksmith and my understanding of forging medieval weaponry may not be 100% accurate.]*


Flowers Only Bloom Once: The 'Development' of Female SMV

Flowers begin as seeds, brimming with life as they shoot forth from the soil. The seed's capacity for giving life makes them instantly valuable. The time it takes for flowers to mature vary greatly, but once bloomed, they are beautiful to behold. They retain their beauty for a time, signalling to bees that they are fertile and ready for pollination. But after awhile, the flower begins to wilt. Fewer and fewer bees visit it, until the flower becomes so wilted that it cannot produce pollen nor be pollinated. Its value drops to nearly nothing, as its only use now is for fertilizing the ground to enable future flowers to bloom.

If you've been making the parallels between flowers and women in this example, you'll see that it's pretty bleak. In this sense, the odds are heavily stacked against us because we only have so much time when we are at our peak beauty to find and secure an LTR/marriage. Like it or not, men place physical attractiveness as their #1 trait they look for in a mate. The fact that you have an education, career, or whatever else you think is valuable does NOT make you more sexually attractive. Once we're no longer beautiful (assuming you do nothing about it), our chances of finding a man drop significantly. This is why we at RPW advocate against riding the CC--you waste your good years on men who have no intention of giving you an LTR/marriage.

But not all hope is lost. The difference between flowers and women is that women can take action to maintain as much of their beauty as possible, for as long as possible. Flowers can't work out, learn to cook, or be sexually available after their prime. The older you are, the harder you'll have to work to maintain your value. Looks-wise, a 45-year old woman is never going to be able to compete with a 19-year old. She's just not. But this is where your education, career, etc. can help develop your relationship market value (RMV). Once you hit The WallTM, a critical part of the mental calculations men do when evaluating you for marriage/LTR material is what you contribute to the relationship. For example:

"Sally isn't getting any younger, but she's a damn good cook and keeps the house clean. She's good with friendly intellectual sparring about world news and events, which keeps me mentally stimulated outside of work."

"Melissa isn't getting any younger, but she takes good care of my kids while I'm away, and prioritizes our marriage first so that we may set a good example for our children. Her degree in accounting is incredibly useful for bookkeeping in her home business, as well as our personal finances/taxes."



I won't get into the nuts and bolts of how to be a feminine woman because there's plenty of sidebar material for that. I will, however, say that BP de-programming is meant to be difficult. Improving yourself and taking accountability for your own actions is harder for women than it is for men. Embrace the challenge; if it's difficult, you're on the right track. Don't take the easy way out.

[–]CopperFox3cTRP Endorsed 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I rarely comment in this sub, because I believe it is a space best left for women to discuss Red Pill theory ... but I must say, the grasp of TRP concepts here as they apply to a woman's perspective of both male and female SMV is spot on. The OP clearly gets it. Well done.

As we say at TRP (to men): A sword must be forged in fire. There is no other way. Be the Sword.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

swords spend most of their formation being beat on by hammers. I find this an entirely useful analogy.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Sidebar: I am not a blacksmith and my understanding of forging medieval weaponry may not be 100% accurate.]*

You always make me laugh. Such a good post and a great explanation of men and women's SMV! Also a great explanation for TRP because so many women do get offended by it. What a fantastic post.

[–]rprollerEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Aw, shucks, you're making me blush :)

[–]LadyLumen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think this is a good example of why men are in their prime in their late 20's and early 30's, while women are in their prime in their late teens and early 20's.

When a guy is in that 28-34 range, he's had enough time to be beaten on by the hammer of life to get experience, and be somewhat rugged, but he still also has his youth, health and virility. So that is the perfect age for him.

With women, their peak time is about 16-24. They've just finished puberty, but are still young and beautiful.

People will say this is sexist, but in most societies throughout history it was the norm for women to get married around that range, and men to get married around the range I listed above.

[–]bowie747 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Also that men's SMV increases very slowly and won't peak until he is 34-38, then it's a very slow decline from there. Women's SMV increase is rapid, peaking usually around 25-26 and then a (relatively) rapid decline thereafter.

Not to say that there is no time whatsoever to ride the CC. Most women would have time to ride it for a couple of years before settling. This of course ignores any effects on pair bonding potential, but may facilitate personal growth and development of taste. This of course would require pre-knowledge of RP principles.

The smartest women will choose a man during her peak SMV years who she believes will develop into something special. Assuming the pair are close age-wise, their SMVs will mismatch initially. But a wise woman will negotiate this with the knowledge that she's placed her biggest bet on a man with great potential.

[–]LadyLumen 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I wouldn't say a woman's decline after 26 is rapid. If they take care of themselves they can look pretty sexy for another 15 years. Obviously they're never going to look as good as they did in their prime, but it's not like they go from 25 to 60 in like five years.

[–]bowie747 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% agree. Having kids doesn't help unfortunately so choices have to be made.

Yes there's a lot of genuinely beautiful 35+yos kids or no kids but it takes work.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)


[–]pinkdrawings 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I agree! That is the most romantic thing I can think of. Wanting to protect is very romantic.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)


    [–]pinkdrawings 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Right? Anytime a guy has acted protective over me (either because of physical danger or in general) - I've been 10x more interested in them. Obviously being ~too protective to the crazy point isn't good. Nobody should be running around, screaming at the top of their lungs, throwing hissy fits, etc. There is a line, but protection is good!

    [–]LadyLumen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Same here! One time someone standing above me (on the stairs) at the metro kept dropping things on me, so my boyfriend went off to go find this person and accost them. I told him not to because I didn't want to start any trouble, but he looked for the person anyways.

    I have to say though, it was kind of a big turn on for me even if it wasn't the smarter, tactful thing to do.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)


    [–]rprollerEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    If someone can't love you at your worst, are they really worth your time?

    If you can't offer someone your best, are YOU really worth their time?

    when an actress gets old she is thrown out like a dirty rag

    Sex and sexiness sells in showbusiness. If an actress in show business can't offer that, she won't make money for the production companies. It is as simple as that.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)


      [–]VigilantRedRoosterModerator[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Comments removed for concern trolling.

      [–]rprollerEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      this world is a pretty harsh place

      Yes, it is.

      So what are YOU going to do when you hit 40 and lose your "SMV" and you LTC leaves YOU for someone who is younger than you will be when you hit 40? Is your solution to women who hit 40 go and check out?

      This line of thinking is typical hamstering activity because you're purposely ignoring the fact that I did address this in the body of my post. I said that looks is the #1 thing men look for. I did not say it was the only thing. Re-read what I wrote about RMV, and also take some time to read sidebar material regarding education/careers.

      [–]1nfidel23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You can't be at your best 100% of the time. Ups and downs/for better or worse remember? If someone is looking at your worst and judging you off that they're not that smart specially if its a woman's pov. Career/money can be improved. Beauty/age cannot.

      [–]Mentathiel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      women are supposed to feel "useless" once they get older because no man will desire them.

      No, they're not useless to a man they're already in a relationship with. It's harder for them to attract new men. It doesn't mean it's impossible to find love and be happy, just that you'll have less opportunities and it will be harder to find someone of value. And being out of your prime is just a part of it, the other part is that men you want will often already be taken at that age.

      No one should wrap their identity or build their confidence around someone else.

      Who's advocating that?

      Externals are temporary. Better to put you confidence in values that are intrinsic and last longer.

      Why not both? Besides, most women here would be proud of the effort they're able to put in and the determination and the willingness to improve which caused their external appearance, rather than the appearance itself. That willingness to go out of their way and work hard manifests itself in other ways and will continue to manifest itself when they're out of their prime. Or at least I hope so.

      [–]1nfidel23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      To a guy who works hard to build himself financially etc majority if the time he doesn't care what she has going for her if she isn't attractive.

      [–]Mentathiel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, but if he's looking at two equally attractive women, he'd be a fool to choose a shrew over someone who'd be there for him and support him and try to always be her best self. I find that men initially go for highest possible SMV women, but if they don't lock them down, they tend to become vary of female nature and look for the whole package, even if they have to settle for a, say, 7 instead of an 8. That is, if they want to commit in the first place. If they don't, of course they're just looking at SMV, not RMV too.

      [–]pinkdrawings 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is by far one of the best analogies I've seen for TRP/RPW.

      [–]1nfidel23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I think men are more pissed they were lied to regarding women their whole lives even by their own mothers and sisters/female relatives. Other than that they're (women) not evil, they're opportunists like men. Only difference is most men are unaware of the rules and play a whole different game that simply isn't fun (ie doesnt work) and get frustrated. Can't blame them for being lied to.

      [–]Highly_Tingled 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Great comparisons! Pretty accurate in my opinion. Nice job OP.

      [–]Ruhrtochter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think that there should be more focus on women building themselves up. As Individuals and then as Wifes and Mothers.

      [–]NiceTryDisaster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      This is one of the most well-written posts on here. Do cross post it to TRP sub

      [–]rprollerEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I appreciate your sentiment! I will have to think on it and possibly tweak it to make it fit the TRP sub.

      [–]1nfidel23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Sick analogy