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RELATIONSHIPSThe mating dance (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

Men and women

In dating, marriage and sex, men are the pursuers and women are the pursued. Men are overt and women are covert. Men are aggressive and women are passive. Therefore, we each approach the sexual mating dance differently.

A man who's interested will make a move, a woman who's interested will be receptive to his move. He then escalates and she's receptive. He escalates further and she's receptive and so the dance continues all the way to intercourse. The dance can happen in one evening or over an extended period of time.

There are many steps to this dance. We may not even be aware of many of them, because a lot of this is hardwired into our biology. How we dress, our facial expressions, tone of voice and body language are all sending messages to the opposite sex whether we're aware of these signals or not.

In dating

Before you go on the date, you're already positioning yourself to signal certain messages. You do so through your choice of clothing and demeanor. Once you're on the date, you'll either escalate or deescalate signals of receptiveness to his advances. If you understand how this works, you can do so intentionally to further emphasize your escalation or deescalation.

When he touches your arm while talking to you, that's a move in the mating dance. If you pull away, you signal that you want to deescalate. If you're receptive, you're signalling for him to escalate. You may not think so. You may think that you're only signalling receptiveness to this level of touch, but that's from a female perspective because - as mentioned above - the female is the passive one in the dance. Being that the end goal is intercourse (even if that end goal isn't a goal for today), every time you're receptive to his advance, you're inviting him to take the next step in the mating dance towards intercourse. If you aren't ready to go further, you ought to convey this message through deescalation. You can just say the word no, but that is akin to suddenly cutting off the music, mid dance. You'll have much better results if you use deescalation.

In marriage

You may have reached your goal by getting married, however, the dance is still on for him because he still needs sex and he'll naturally seek it out from you. The best thing you can do is to dance along with him, the worst thing you can do is to end the dance.

Men are hardwired to pursue women. Therefore, your man will pursue you (unless something is wrong). Your receptiveness will encourage him to pursue again, your non receptiveness will discourage him from doing so. He may still pursue you for a while, but if he does, it will be increasingly risky for him. Pursuit of love from your spouse should not be a risky business. It's very unhealthy.

When he does something nice for you, he's making a move in the mating dance. When you appreciate his gesture, he'll be encouraged to do more such things. When your love and affection for him increases as a result, you're rewarding his efforts which further encourages him to continue pursuing you.

When his niceness to you goes unnoticed or worse - when he's punished for it - you're discouraging him from making another move. He may not make any moves for an hour, a day or he may eventually give up entirely. You may have good reasons for punishing him (through nagging, criticizing, etc), but that won't change its negative impact.

Outside the bedroom

The dance isn't limited to the bedroom. It happens all the time, in every interaction. Anytime he's being considerate, it's a step in the dance. Anytime he's being cold, it's also a step in the dance (just not a good step).

Male love descends from sex down to everything else. Therefore, if he's repeatedly discouraged in the bedroom, his love will diminish outside the bedroom too. This is bound to happen even if he doesn't want it to and tries to overcome it.

Cutting the music and compromise

The problem for many couples is that the male sex drive is way higher than the female sex drive. Instead of deescalating, she's been taught that she has a right to say no and refuse his advances. But biology is still biology even when you have a right to do something. Shutting him down in this way is cutting the dance short right in the middle and is a sting to his sense of self. You may think that this is childish of him, that he shouldn't be offended if you just aren't in the mood now, but he can't help feeling this way because it's in his biology.

What do you do when you can't go further but you don't want to activate his off switch?

There are many things you can do. A blow job is a good example of a compromise where you're enthusiastic about your desire for him even if you aren't up for sex at the moment. Another (general) idea is to show receptiveness to him while expressing regret for not being up for it now. To appreciate his advances and desire for you while giving him a rain-check. This will only work if you always keep your part of the rain-check. A no doesn't need to be a no, it can be a "later" instead.

Conclusion

There's a sexual mating dance. Men pursue women. Receptivity encourages further advances. Cutting the dance mid-dance kills the whole thing. Compromise is a good thing to satisfy all.

Cheers!


[–]durtykneesEndorsed Contributor 38 points39 points  (4 children)

men are the pursuers and women are the pursued. Men are overt and women are covert. Men are aggressive and women are passive

Following this advice/thinking does not benefit women who are looking for the best (compatible, high quality) partner she could find.

Waiting around passively like a princess on a high balcony is how women end up with "Mr. Good Enough" and then get frustrated after a few years, and then perpetuates what TRP claims all women do: branch swing. Isn't it ironic, when that's the outcome of taking dating advice from RP men?

Yes, men pursue, but women seduce.

There's nothing passive about a methodical calculated seduction to get the caliber of man you really want. A "hunt" by any other name/word/approach, is still a hunt.

I agree with everything else you said.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment and for pointing that out. The 3 sentences you quoted are not advice, they're realities of life.

I agree with you that sitting around waiting for Mr right is bad strategy. In this post, I used the word "passive" only in relation to the word "aggressive". Otherwise, I used the word "receptive" which answers your concern as seduction is the art of conveying receptivity. That topic really deserves its own post and isn't the topic of this post.

[–]Blissfully 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was actually thinking this as well... also there are some guys that may have had bad experiences in the past and are cautious or a little more reserved/shy so... what you say I agree with. Little seduction. I just hate when things get miscommunicated or misunderstood.

[–]disqus-1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

plenty, maybe most, women have no clue how to seduce. Sad truth is most women are either to self involved, insecure, entitled, or just plain lazy to actually seduce a man like you describe.

So in the example your give that would be an exception to the rule as in this day and age a women who would seduce and hunt like this is very rare.

[–]lindsbo 14 points15 points  (2 children)

One time I had a boyfriend with a lower sex drive than myself and it really hurt my self esteem

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

One time I had a boyfriend with a lower sex drive than myself and it really hurt my self esteem

That's because of the sex and power dynamics.

[–]lindsbo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right! I was the one providing him with protection and resources. And although he was more conventionally attractive than I am, I certainly had more stamina than he did.

[–]Jikira 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I love giving my boyfriend head, but giving head takes way more energy out of me then sex. However, sometimes my boyfriend wants to just get head because he is too tired to have sex. If we are both too tired on that particular day I will give him head and he will finish by having sex with me. I just think it funny because stereotypically people say just give him head when you are too tired. But I rather just have sex.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Agreed. Giving head takes way more concentrated energy than sex IMO. Seriously, who here wants to give (or receive) a halfass BJ.

And no, that doesn't mean I think starfish sex is good enough to offer up when I'm tired either. It's important to always give your best. (Obvious caveat of a raincheck if you're literally so exhausted you're falling asleep, etc)

[–]Jikira 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Agreed, starfish sex is terrible. I just find it much easier to be enthusiastic when I am having sex.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same, maybe because it doesn't make my jaw ache :P

[–]BewareTheOldMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wow - I would not have known this information, if not for the discussion.

...giving head takes way more energy...

I suspect most men are not aware - something for consideration...

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, whatever floats your boat. The point is that there often is a middle ground somewhere.

I will commend you for having regular sex even when you're tired. Bonding regularly is good for your relationship.

[–]Banincoming 11 points12 points  (32 children)

Then a man gets charged with sexual harassment publicly, and 1000 men hear of it and do not pursue women they fancy due to fear.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 8 points9 points  (28 children)

Then a man gets charged with sexual harassment publicly, and 1000 men hear of it and do not pursue women they fancy due to fear.

And that's why we have MGTOW. Men en mass are being turned off from women altogether.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 10 points11 points  (27 children)

And that's why we have MGTOW

I understand MGTOW as a response to false rape accusations (etc). And in an Atlas Shrugged sort of way, I can see the value in men simply removing themselves from the market to make women face the consequences of these actions.

What worries me about it, is that IF women are aware of MGTOW, it's viewed as a movement of bitter men who we are better without (from what I've seen/read/heard). So it's not working as a method to get women to face up to the consequences of their actions.

I'd like to see these men be more visible BUT also more calmly vocal in explaining why the dating game is so bad for them.

For civilizations to continue, we need the mating dance. And we can't change our natures. So MGTOW on a grand level can never be more than a protest movement unless they are trying to crash civilization. On an individual level, there have always been men that chose not to marry so to that degree MGTOW will always exist in some form or another.

I'm not sure my point, I just always wonder at the lost opportunities when MGTOW men come in here just to throw around one liners or insults and run.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I understand your point and as you may know I'm a married man and don't generally throw around one liners and run. However, it's always helpful to try and understand where others are coming from (as you often do) and in this case, you're only partially on the mark and mostly off the mark.

False rape accusations is only one single element that's gone sour on the societal mating dance floor. There are many other reasons why men are choosing to walk off the dance floor completely.

Female nature is extremely different from male nature. There are things we each need from the other and that's why we get together. There are also costs involved, but we're willing to pay the price for the benefit derived....

Until the cost vastly outweighs the benefit. That's when it's no longer worth the hassle.

A man today is not allowed to expect his wife to cook, clean, maintain her physical beauty, have regular sex with him, make money to pay for things, be nice to him and not ruin his live in divorce court. Men today are shamed for expecting any of these or anything at all really.

OTOH, men are expected to listen to her whining, help with the cooking and cleaning, work hard to pay for everything, satisfy her sexual and emotional needs, take her attitude like a man, do nice things for her and generally treat her like a queen.

In short - modern marriage is full of responsibility for men and benefits for women. This is a problem in the laws as well as the way society treats men and women. Many men are saying "the hell with it" and walking away.

If you want to understand all this better, listen to the following youtubers. Independent man, sandman, turd flinging monkey, MGTOW 101. Listen to what they have to say with an open mind. You may not agree with everything they have to say, you may even find some of what they say offensive, but if you listen with an open mind, you'll better understand the MGTOW phenomenon.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

and don't generally throw around one liners and run

I definitely wasn't referring to you, and I wasn't even specifically referring to the commenter you were responding to. It is something we see around here and it always strikes me as an action without a positive result. It'd be the equivalent of me going on TwoX and throwing around snappy comments about gender roles. To me, that serves no purpose because anyone that might be convinced if I articulate myself, is really not going to be by some snark.

That said, I will give it a little bit of a deeper dive at some point. From the number of youtubers you suggested, there obviously are men out there who are articulating the ideas more thoroughly than what I'm seeing.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From the number of youtubers you suggested, there obviously are men out there who are articulating the ideas more thoroughly than what I'm seeing.

There are dozens more MGTOW youtubers, but I'm not familiar with their work. Therefore, I can't recommend them. Most of the ones I mentioned are primarily audio with some images etc to fill the screen. In other words - stuff to listen to while doing other tasks.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

MGTOW, it's viewed as a movement of bitter men who we are better without (from what I've seen/read/heard).

Viewing MGTOW as a group of bitter men is ignoring the problem and failing to ask/address the question(s) of why these men are refusing to participate in dating, mating, marriage, and living simply for themselves. These men are pragmatic thinkers. There are those who are still angry, but post-anger eventually results in realization and a practical response to current dating and marriage conditions.

We are not better off as a nation without these men. We are in fact worse off when some of the country’s best and mostly decent men refuse to participate in society. It is society’s weakest citizens and those who enjoy protected status who suffer most – women, children, and the elderly.

NOTE: Not an insult to women, but there are distinct biological differences in strength, endurance, and the ability for self-protection in men versus women.

A short while back a woman from the Feminism SubReddit stumbled into MGTOW and instead of asking questions her first reaction was to ask how to shut down the site simply due to message/tone without detailed inquiry.

[MGTOW] is not working as a method to get women to face up to the consequences of their actions.

It is not MGTOW or any man’s responsibility to convince women to accept consequences of their actions. Women must change of their own volition – and they will when the situation reaches a tipping point to their extreme disliking. Until then, we have what we have…more and more good men will continue withdrawal until EVERYONE is forced to take notice.

There are lots of computers, institutions, research facilities, and specialists continually compiling data. Current data and research shows marriage is trending downward and virtually every positive result based on stable marriages is trending toward negative numbers that should give the nation cause for concern. There are men opting out who have never heard of the buzzword MGTOW at all. Of note is that Japan, one of the few nation-states in the world, has similar concerns about MGTOW men (Herbivores as they are called in Japan).

As per u/loneliness-inc:

A man today is not allowed to expect his wife to cook, clean, maintain her physical beauty, have regular sex with him, has to make money to pay for things, be nice to him and not ruin his life in divorce court. Men today are shamed for expecting any of these or anything at all really.

The current dynamic has shifted tremendously. We are working toward trending to a gender-neutral society where traditional roles are blurred or eliminated. It’s counterintuitive and already producing adverse effects. Women behaving as men, men behaving as women. I’m not honestly sure how that works. True and productive masculinity is criticized to the point of ridicule, yet we have numerous claims there are few, good, and masculine men and fewer feminine and traditional women. How is anyone supposed to conduct a mating dance within that framework?

One way men can influence is to inform the current and next generation. When I discuss relationship issues with men, many have zero knowledge of TRP or associated buzzwords – they just know something is off-kilter/incredibly skewed in the mating dance. The message is everywhere – barbershops, churches, YouTube, Social Media, family discussions, male spaces/locker rooms, discussion forums, men’s conferences…basically everywhere. I engage and offer perspective and practical/actionable advice.

I offer straight and mostly hardcore information to give men perspective that will help them navigate the dance as I, like many others, learned my lessons the hard way and without TRP, the internet, or early male mentorship/leadership. My words are generally well received and I derive satisfaction by offering my life-experience and knowledge. I find many men self-reflect, self-correct, and use the information to improve their lives.

When I occasionally present the same/similar discussion to women is when I receive the most resistance despite hearing directly from women themselves regarding male lack of interest in relationships, marriage, children, disinterest in traditional roles, etc.

My bottom-line advice is that a man MUST have incentive to perform in manner consistent with societal expectations. Men will not force changes, conduct wide-scale protest, or make a lot of noise. They simply disengage/vote with their feet. That is the protest. For many, that’s the answer…and a practical one at that. Right now there are still enough marriages and newborn replacements, but how long until the country reaches critical mass?

It seems the message would transfer better from women who recognize the issues and translate the message directly to other woman in addition to corrective action as well.

It’s not all bad, however, even if they don’t like the information or my presentation manner, they generally receive valuable takeaways for later use…or not.

I am sometimes frustrated with men and women both, but I focus on the first two axioms of Choice Theory:

The only person whose behavior we can control is our own.

All we can give another person is information.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You make a lot of good points, I'll just add a few thoughts.

Regarding feminized men and masculine women - what you say is true. The societal push is to equalize the genders. This is true on a societal level. However, within individual relationships this often means the man taking on womanly roles and responsibilities to share and be equal, but the woman not doing anywhere near the same with regards to taking on male roles and responsibilities.

All in all, great comment!

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It seems the message would transfer better from women who recognize the issues and translate the message directly to other woman in addition to corrective action as well.

If there is an answer to my comments here, this is probably it.

I don't disagree with anything you said. If my comment came across as though I was suggesting that we are better off without these men, that was not my intent.

And while I do agree that viewing them as bitter angry men is counterproductive and missing the point - that doesn't stop my frustration when they come to RPW and throw around pithy lines and then don't engage further. If any group of women should be able to understand their POV it should be here. I wasn't suggesting how they should be viewed but generally how they are viewed. If women are going to subs just to get annoyed with the men there, that is women's fault. If the men are coming to the women's subs and being difficult, then it's not entirely women's fault for having an unfavorable view of them.

All we can give another person is information.

I think mostly what I'd want is more of this. I don't see how we right the imbalance without a better share of information. Everything you and u/loneliness-inc take the time to write out and share is much more helpful (from where I'm sitting) than the guys who come in, shoot off "the world is terrible for men" and then disappear.

And again, I'm not even entirely sure I had a point in my original comment. I was sort of thinking 'out loud'. But I see what you guys are saying and I will continue to roll it around in my head.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This conversation is one of the most important ones I've ever seen around here. While many women have internalized RP ideas and incorporated them into their lives, MGTOW is still generally treated with disdain. The truth is that the entire idea of TRP didn't start in a vacuum. It's really a symptom of the breakdown in society. Part of understanding what's wrong with the dating/sex/relationships/marriage scene in western countries is to take a good look and really understand MGTOW. It's always easy to brush them off as basement dwellers, but that really isn't the case. Listen to some of the youtubers mentioned above and you'll learn a lot. To see you trying to understand is very very refreshing ☺

right the imbalance

Ultimately, the imbalance will never balance out until the laws change. That's reality. A woman can swear up and down that she'd never screw over her man in divorce court, take away all his money, deny him access to his kids or make false rape/violence allegations against men she doesn't like. Indeed, some women really don't do these things and do forgo all the benefits of doing so.

However, so long as a woman can easily get away with doing such things to men, the temptation will be very strong if she really doesn't like him for whatever reason. Unfortunately, many women do fall to this strong temptation when push comes to shove. Therefore, no real balance will ever be achieved as long as the laws remain as they are.

[–]BokehClasses 1 point2 points  (10 children)

For civilizations to continue,

MGTOW often say things such as "enjoying the decline" and "watching the world burn" in reference to the future of civilization.

Pretty sure MGTOW do not care about civilization continuing. They are very pessimistic about the future. This pessimism isn't isolated to just MGTOWs though, most people who are conspiracy theorists or otherwise are red pilled will usually be pessimistic.

So MGTOW on a grand level can never be more than a protest movement unless they are trying to crash civilization.

They aren't actively trying to crash it, but regardless the crash is happening passively.

Passive protest can often be the strongest protest.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (7 children)

Passive protest can often be the strongest protest.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why this would be the case if most people don't even realize there is a protest going on.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

MGTOW is more of a personal choice to save ones own ass from troubles and headaches.

Feminism is about protesting and changing society.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I appreciate a world where we can exchange ideas, but you are right. I'm looking at it through the wrong lens

[–]BokehClasses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Passive protest is a long term game. It takes decades for change in this case. We need to wait until the new generation of women grow old single and the economy takes a big hit.

But even if there is no change, the MGTOW path still benefits the male regardless. A win-win situation.

[–]disqus-1 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Because society is dependent on male participation, enough men opt out, and it doesn't take many most revolutions only involve like 5% of the population of something like that, and society collapses/ Rome burns.

Men guard you while you sleep, and women shit all over them for doing it.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Because society is dependent on male participation,

I obviously agree with this or I wouldn't be on this sub or engaging in this conversation.

it doesn't take many most revolutions only involve like 5% of the population of something like that

For an active revolution sure. But are the numbers the same from a passive protest? Will people around you realize that lack of male participation is why the world is burning? Will others step in and pick up the slack? Does it give the government an opening to step in somehow (I'm thinking about incarceration rates and the black community here)? Is the idea just to watch Rome burn or is there an intention to rebuild from the ashes? Genuine questions. I see the same imbalances in our social structures. I'm trying to understand how quiet protest is going to help correct them. And if it's just a case where men are making the best decisions for themselves (which I can understand) and not meant to change the world at all, I don't understand the purpose of the snide comments on women's subs? Wouldn't that be a situation where men have decided women aren't worth it and just avoid women's spaces?

Men guard you while you sleep, and women shit all over them for doing it.

So this is the sort of thing I was talking about above (why some women perceive MGTOW men to be bitter angry not worth attention). I don't know if it was your intention to be vaguely menacing here but that is how this statement comes across. Since I was trying to understand the men's side of things, being threatening towards me is off-putting. If you were the only guy who responded to me, I'd be throwing up my hands and thinking "well, then I won't try to understand men's causes, f it". I don't feel that way and I appreciate the insight that was offered by everyone else who responded to me. But it appears as though you've come into a women's space to shit on women, I don't see how you then expect women to not respond in kind.

Also, because we're reading each others writing, it's possible that we are misinterpreting each other's tone. So I'll say this: I'm not worked up, I'm not angry, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I've been aiming through this whole thread to keep an open mind to understanding where you guys are coming from. So if you are reading any of this as "bitch" that's not the place that I'm writing this from.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Pretty sure MGTOW do not care about civilization continuing.

This may be true with regards to some MGTOW's but it's not inherent within MGTOW thinking. Thus, it's an unfair categorization to label MGTOW as a whole as "not caring about the continuation of society".

Many MGTOW are going away from the whole dating/sex/relationships/marriage scene because the costs grossly outweigh the benefits, making it all not worth the risk. Like many choices that many people make, they have societal impact, but to start pointing fingers at MGTOW for the breakdown of society is inaccurate, incorrect, unfair and will only lead to more men going their own way.

[–]BokehClasses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No you misunderstand. I'm not blaming ot shaming MGTOW, im just saying it how it is.

Like you said, MGTOW choose their path because the current system is very bad for the male. Therefore, they don't care about propagation of civilization because civilization itself is massively flawed and not harmful to men.

[–][deleted]  (8 children)

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    [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    She is not saying that. She is saying that the optics and public 'reputation' of MGTOW is of 'loser, bitter men'.

    Unfortunately, the behavior of the men on the MGTOW sub does little to alter that impression.

    Additionally, do not assume that noticing a community has a certain reputation is the same as saying that community matches the reputation.

    It is possible to have great compassion for men but not agree with the activity and discussions that happen on a particular forum.

    You seem to have misunderstood what the other using is actually saying, and instead had a knee jerk reaction.

    Your comment does not promote a thoughtful exchange and it has been removed.

    Please do not presume to tell another user what she may or may not think, particularly when you have misunderstood what she is actually saying.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

    [removed]

      [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      This is your only warning. Change your attitude immediately.

      [–]disqus-1 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      My attitude is one of helpfulness, eager to discuss the issues to expand my understanding, and a refusal to be insulted and attacked for no reason, and to be a part of the community in a positive way.

      I am willing 100% to change my attitude to not be disruptive to this conversation or this Reddit.. but at the moment I'm a little confused as to what is appropriate, perhaps you could share with me so I can not waste my only warning..?

      seriously confused right now...

      [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Read the sidebar, wiki, and pinned mod post.

      Do not tale an attitude with other users or argue with a sarcastic tone.

      Comments should be thoughtful and clear.

      Your prior comment is exactly what you need to avoid.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]Blissfully 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Do you think there's any way to combat that?

        [–]Banincoming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Since it's been beaten into men society-wide now for 30 years many "good" men will never approach since they've been told only rapists do that. As an individual, you could ask men out, but that sends a lot of messages you may not want to.

        [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Another (general) idea is to show receptiveness to him while expressing regret for not being up for it now. To appreciate his advances and desire for you while giving him a rain-check.

        I find rain checks given with a promise of a blow job to be an excellent strategy when dealing with i'm so exhausted tonight I couldn't possibly be any fun Bonus points for sending naughty texts the next day as a reminder that you intend to follow through.

        [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (8 children)

        Great advice about the subtly of the flow of a relationship or courtship. As RPW we need to be highly aware of how we signal to a potential or our current man.

        Weirdly though my man won't let me give him a bj to completion most of the time, despite my enthusiasm and the fact that he says I'm good at it...I've been trying to figure this out through a RP lense and I think it is about power. I feel powerful when I control his orgasm, and he feels powerful being able to control his, especially when he can overpower me (through orgasm).

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [removed]

          [–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          I think you mean circumcised? And he is...

          Also... Sleeping bags?

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          [removed]

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

            [removed]

              [–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              This entire exchange has been removed. This is not appropriate conversation for this community.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [removed]

                [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Quite a few Red Pill Nuggets and a nice description of male-female courting and mating ritual.

                I highlight two key points:

                You may have reached your goal by getting married, however, the dance is still on…dance along with him, the worst thing you can do is to end the dance.

                True to life words. After marriage is no time to relax for either party. I submit the real (relationship) work is just beginning - not an exceedingly difficult and uphill struggle, but a continued and consistent effort. After putting in the work to get to matrimony, post-marriage is not the time to "chill."

                …[women have] been taught that she has a right to say no and refuse his advances.

                This is indeed true. Both parties have a right to refuse sex, but sex is part of marital duties and failure in that area leads to issues. There are few exceptions where refusal seems fine, but continued and constant refusal is problematic.

                I note where you list compromise alternatives. Again – that seems fine on occasion, but most men will expect full and enthusiastic access and looking to get the "whole show" on a regular basis.

                Keep the dance going...

                [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Thank you for your insight.

                I note where you list compromise alternatives. Again – that seems fine on occasion, but most men will expect full and enthusiastic access and looking to get the "whole show" on a regular basis.

                I agree.