METARPW and TRP (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by LaceandsilksModerator | Lace

Part I

All red pill communities work from the same wellspring of knowledge, but how that information is used can often look so dissimilar that newcomers mistake each sub as a separate entity that bears no relation to another. The most obvious example of this? TRP and RPW. Men and women alike often misunderstand how and why these two subs specifically are inexorably tied to each other. Think of ‘step one’ as understanding RP ideas, and step ten occurs when someone can effectively incorporate and adapt those ideas into their personal life. On this scale, understanding the RP sexual strategies for both men and women, as well as why they are both at odds and in harmony with each other; falls somewhere around ‘step twenty.’

It is a complex system that requires a good deal of dispassionate consideration over a period of time for most people to fully grasp. The most important thing anyone can do is revisit theory posts at regular intervals, maybe every 4-6 months, and explore these ideas critically and logically. You will surprise yourself with how much easier it becomes to understand these ideas and absorb new ones the more familiar you are with the material. Remember that the ability to clearly explain one concept in different ways is a hallmark trait of someone that truly understands what they’re talking about. It’s not enough to simply regurgitate spiffy phrases if you cannot also create new ones that help others better understand RP theories.

To begin, we will simply identify the RP male and female goals.

  • Male goals: spin plates, casual sex, LTR, marriage, children
  • Female goals: LTR, marriage, children

Right off the bat, even the most casual observer should notice that RP men have a much more diverse array of goals to pursue. RP women have a far narrower focus, and the next logical question most people ask is: why?

This leads us to another fundamental piece of RP theory: - Men are the gatekeepers to commitment - Women are the gatekeepers to sex

Which sounds really nice, but what exactly does that mean in practice and application? Simply put, men nearly always want to have sex, and few men would ever really pass up the opportunity to have sexual intercourse with a woman. There are also few women that have a sex drive that matches up with an average man. On top of this, a normal woman can have sex pretty much whenever she feels like it, if she’s inclined to do so. Today the thing that women struggle with most tends to be forming a LTR with a good man and marrying a good man. Women overall, are much more interested in commitment and security. Men also have an easier time overall forming relationships. This feeds into the next evolution of RP theory:

  • Men have an easier time forming relationships, and a harder time maintaining a consistently active sex life
  • Women have an easier time having sex consistently, and a harder time earning the commitment of a good man

This is very important to remember. The primary goal of men at any stage is generally “consistent and active sex life” while the primary goal of women at any stage is “commitment and security.” All of this sets the stage for one of the most timeless struggles ever to exist. Men can give the things that women desire most [commitment, security], and women can provide the thing men desire most sex [sex].

The problem? No one wants to get the short end of the stick. RP women know that it’s best to keep their N count as low as possible. RP men know that they don’t want to end up in a sexless anything, so everyone has a certain level of caution and worry. People figure out pretty quickly that one of the most tried and true strategies happens to involve withholding their strongest asset under the promise of following through once they get the thing they personally desire most. Translation? Men dangle the ‘commitment carrot’ in the hopes that women will have sex with them quickly. Women dangle the ‘sex carrot’ in the hopes that men will commit quickly.

Both men and women can turn to different game theories and strategies to obtain their goal, and RP describes many different tools that can be used in wildly different ways depending on an individual’s sex, temperament, and skills. RP women are not interested in short turnovers between men, the entire purpose of the sub is to find the best possible match that they can stay with long term. In fact, the entire spirit of RPW self improvement, growth, honesty, femininity, behavior, and philosophies all strive to create permanency.

This has all been said before, but it’s worth repeating here:

  • RP women are not trying to specifically date ‘RP aware’ men. Many naturally masculine men will display certain red pill characteristics, but have no familiarity with the actual term ‘red pill.’
  • Some men that read and participate on RP subs may make good leaders and are in fact already leading relationships of their own.
  • Some men that read and participate on RP subs are textbook examples of what RP women should avoid.
  • Being a RPW, or knowing about RP doesn’t not automatically make a woman a good girlfriend or wife.
  • It’s not enough to know about ideas, if women do not work to change for the better, then they should not expect to achieve their goals.
  • RP men are not ’bad’ for wanting sex, or for pursuing their goals in amoral ways.
  • RP women are not ’bad’ or manipulative for wanting marriage.
  • RP women are looking for a ‘good’ man. The definition of ‘good’ will not mean the same thing to every member.
  • Everyone should give actionable advice that is relevant to a person’s situation and goals. Telling a man that spins plates to focus on an LTR instead, when that is not his interest is wrong. Telling a woman interested in marriage and family that she should consider being a plate is also just as wrong.

It is important that every member of this community respects all RP goals, while understanding that some goals will be in direct conflict with their own. As a community, the content and quality of advice must stand on its own. A RPW that decides she only wants to cohabitate with a man for the rest of her life is not ‘bad,’ a RPW that wants to get married is not ‘bad,’ and a RPW that wants children is not ‘bad.’ What she represents to a RP man that spins plates, is an example of an incompatible woman.

A RP man that wants casual sex, and spins plates, and will avoid marriage at all costs is not bad. He simply represents the type of man that every RPW should avoid. A person with incompatible goals does not make that person ‘bad.’ We must hold ourselves and each other to higher standards of understanding and conduct. This means recognizing our commonalities and our differences without anger or distrust.

Everyone has a responsibility to understand that male and female sexual strategies without seeing any approach as inherently wrong. TRP and RPW are connected, and represent different sides of the same ideas. It is important for everyone to have the space they need to learn and improve without being attacked for their goals. The community will be a stronger and better one as a result. It means that discussions will stem from mutual understanding, and less effort will be expended on trying to legitimize personal goals.

Part II

TRP often focuses on helping men create a more developed and engaging life for newcomers. This differs from RPW, and this community focuses on a more limited range of topics. Here, we concentrate on the things that play the greatest role in attracting a good man and earning his commitment. This means that when women come to RPW, certain things about her Education and employment, Social life, and hobbies are assumed.

It is accurate to say that RPW focuses on self-improvement, but that focus applies only to the types of improvement that makes a woman more attractive and desirable to a good man. Every woman should lead a satisfying and fulfilling life, and many of those things fall outside the scope of this sub.

The most popular and well known relationship dynamic is referred to as “Captain/First Mate.” Essentially, this describes a relationship where the man takes the lead, and the woman follows. This dynamic can be described and applied in many ways, and no implementation is specifically ‘more correct’ than another. The C/FM structure is not the only RP relationship structure, it just happens to be the one that is most frequently referred to. Relationships are not identical. The individuals within the relationship, their personalities, strengths, weaknesses, and goals all contribute to structure and functionality. What works for one couple may spell disaster for another.

Therefore, it is more productive to identify which aspects are not working and examine why that might be. It is the responsibility of every RP woman to hold herself accountable and be aware of her personal flaws and strengths. Every RPW is also responsible for creating her own vetting standards. If you are asking for advice, please refer to the questions outlined in the rules

Vetting is an ongoing process that continues until marriage. Having a personal system that is detailed enough to increase your chances of long term compatibility and happiness; while also being flexible enough to prevent you from ‘passing’ on promising men too quickly involves a lot of work.

Fortunately, this process has been covered already, in detail.

Part III

Additional resources:

Problem Solver


[–]BewareTheOldMan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Key Line: A RP man that wants casual sex, and spins plates, and will avoid marriage at all costs is not bad. He simply represents the type of man that every RPW should avoid.

The vetting guide (Vetting Part 3) describes one of the best male prototypes that I observe in couples who do well in relationships.

Key Line: The ideal mate for a RPW is going to be a guy who has a relatively balanced mix of alpha and beta.

It seems to me the best strategy for women would be to counter TRP Strategy with a better technique. So far…and out of all other sites and even in open discussion, only RPW seems to offer workable and actionable solutions that when properly implemented lead to better outcomes. I don’t always have agreement on every bit of advice, but there’s usually nice takeaways from virtually every posting/summary. I’m not saying that just to be nice, but I usually leave other (real-life) conversations and online discussion forums shaking my head in disbelief.

When I talk to women in my family or other women in general conversation, I advise them on TRP techniques (without using buzz-words of course) and recommend this simple countermeasure: Don’t be the type of woman TRP Men talk about.

Red Pill (Men) evolved into a philosophy/ideology as a direct countermeasure to the fact that women are feely offering sex to a few men versus looking for potential life-mates/husbands in their prime years. Prime years are defined as when a woman is young, very good-looking/most beautiful, most fertile, and has the best chance of finding the very best man their looks can attract.

TRP observed a pattern of behavior by which women spend their best years with Bad Boys/Pretty Boys, and then search for a good husband/father archetype much later to years after their prime.

Their focus is self-improvement toward becoming a Top 20% Man in order to take advantage of the fact women are feely offering sex to a few men.

They have no desire or incentive to change women or female behavior, only respond/react to the sexual marketplace and its current conditions. For women who are offering uncommitted and free sex to these few (Top 20%) men, they simply adapted their behavior in response. Many women see them as neck-beards and Plate-Spinning misogynists, but it’s women who are offering sex – RP Men simply accept (or reject) the offer.

I suspect most TRP followers most will never achieve Top 20% status, but will self-improve to the extent of interacting with women to some level of fulfillment or obtaining a better class of women.

I’m not sharing any trade secrets. The information is available to anyone who peruses or lurks at their site. Again - the best strategy for women would be to counter TRP Strategy with a better technique. However, what I mostly see is complaints and misunderstanding about men who use RP Techniques to extract sexual benefits based on current female nature and behavior. This is pretty common over at Purple Pill Debate (PPD), WGTOW, and other sites. It mostly a running list of insults without any attempt to understand TRP Strategy.

It’s not just TRP-aware men having these conversations. Other/regular men are having these discussions highlighting problems/relationship dynamics between men and women virtually everywhere…male-dominated spaces, social media, conferences, special events, social clubs, gatherings, and basic interpersonal dialogue among other men.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


[–]LaceandsilksModerator | Lace[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is false. The manosphere that predates the reddit community, which also is responsible for establishing RP theories, consisted of married men. This carried over to the actual reddit community /r/TheRedPill. Marriage, LTR, and casual sex have always been valid RP male goals.

TRP has changed over time, as most communities do. Right now there are many more active, young, male users, and divorced men. The men working on their marriages tend to stick to /r/MarriedRedPill, which makes perfect sense.

I agree that the most popular focus on TRP currently, focuses on plate spinning and casual sex. Married Red Pill, and LTR are both featured on the TRP sidebar.

RP men have more goals open to them, as stated in the post. RPW is more narrowly focused. You even acknowledge in that not all men are against marriage.

A significant subsection of the community.....

The presence of a majority preference does not negate the goals of the minority. Most men do want casual sex and to avoid marriage, and they should do exactly what they want and pursue their goals. The men that are interested in LTRs and marriage have just as much right and maneuverability to work towards their goals.

Your comment has been removed because it is both inaccurate and rude.

[–]WhySoOverHeated -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Lovely job! I am missing the "External Resources Megalist" thread though. Or "The (un)Official RPW Reading List". Maybe it would also be relevant with a link to the most basic TRP theory that includes some of the evolutionary psychology which it is based on?

[–]WhySoOverHeated 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(Did I post this the wrong place?)