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THEORYAlpha, beta and the ideal RPW marriage. (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

The terms alpha and beta (and others) are used to describe various types of men and their levels of attractiveness to women.

Sexual attractiveness that is.

There are certain things that are sexually attractive to men, other things that are sexually attractive to women. If all you're looking for is sex, all you need to do is to be the most attractive that you can be.

This forum is very marriage minded (and by marriage we mean a long term committed relationship, not necessarily the legal contract). Marriage is - by definition - a sexual union. However, marriage has certain anti-sex elements to it.

Let's take the hottest woman around, a 10/10. This woman has a perfect figure, perfect skin, perfect hair, perfect breasts, perfect ass, smells nice and has a pretty face. After all, 10/10 means perfection!

Likewise, the perfect alpha male 10/10 in male attractiveness (although more difficult to clearly define) has a lean and built body, he's strong, he's tall, he can get things done, he has ambition, he's successful, he doesn't put up with shit from anyone.

The 10/10 woman will need to watch what she eats and often is very strict about her diet, she may need expensive skincare, hair products and fragrances and may dress in expensive clothing. While all of these keep her sexual value (SMV) high, they lower her RMV, her relationship value because none of these things are conducive to living with another person long term (for most people) and they certainly aren't good for raising a family.

Likewise, a man who needs to spend many hours at the gym to keep himself muscular, expends emotional energy being tough and to pass shit tests - is a net cost to marriage and family. The stereotypical dad-bod is a thing because most fathers prioritize their wives and children over their personal fitness. When life gets hectic trying to support and raise a family, that's the first thing to go.

In plain terms - if you marry a highly attractive man (or woman), especially if you're going to raise a family, sexual attractiveness will likely drop a bit. Being that marriage isn't only about sex, this shouldn't be an issue if your expectations are realistic.

If you expect your man to be alpha all the time, if beta character traits are repulsive to you, perhaps marriage isn't your cup of tea. Perhaps you should ride the cc until you can't anymore. Expecting a man to always be alpha is the same as expecting a woman to always be a 10/10 hot 19 year old piece of ass. The desire is understandable but it's also an unrealistic expectation in the long run.

Good news is, between the far extremes of 10/10 hot gym junkie who costs a fortune in products and emotional energy on one end and the fat and lazy, sexually repulsive hag on the other end - is a happy middle ground.

This middle ground is wisdom that our grandparents understood quite well, but this knowledge has been somewhat lost today. To balance realistic expectations from the other while always striving to be the best version of yourself that you can be. I'm not saying everyone's grandparents were like that, mine certainly were.


[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 19 points20 points  (3 children)

I don’t think a 10/10 necessarily means you look like Adriana Lima and 90’s Brad Pitt. It just means you find each other more attractive than any other options. And staying a 10/10 forever is impossible. Aging happens.

My husband and I do an 80/20 split with our finances and he insists that my gym and personal grooming supplies come out of our 80%, rather than my 20%. I highly doubt any man with a motivated attractive wife is going to nickle and dime the things that help her stay attractive. Even if they are super expensive and outrageous, the type of man who marries that type of woman knows what he signed up for.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don’t think a 10/10 necessarily means you look like Adriana Lima and 90’s Brad Pitt. It just means you find each other more attractive than any other options. And staying a 10/10 forever is impossible. Aging happens.

True. What one person finds attractive might not be what someone else finds attractive. However, it's also true that there are certain things that most men or most women find attractive.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Oh definitely! Of course you should be in shape, dress well, have long hair, wear nice makeup etc. But I just don’t believe being a super model is a prerequisite to marrying a great guy.

I feel like sometimes RP can put the fear of god into us about hitting the wall and this army 19-year-olds who are just waiting in the wings to take our men. While that is an awesome motivator I feel sometimes it is a bit alarmist. Be healthy, put effort into your appearance, and be a pleasant person = already ahead of 80% of women.

[–]JJ33141 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even if they are super expensive and outrageous, the type of man who marries that type of woman knows what he signed up for.

Of course it depends on the guy, but I think it would be unwise of a man to encourage a woman to be a fashionista--the possibility of things spiraling out of control and her starting to dress more to compete with other women, and seek external validation from other men is a reasonable fear. I'd rather have someone who maintains her physical appearance, and dresses pleasantly, but doesn't dial it up to "10" for the outside world to see. I'd rather have that for myself. But for sure a wife who actively tries to maintain her appearance for her husband is amazing.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (6 children)

Naturally, looks fade, but priorities change as well. Imagine being, for all intents and purposes, an "old hag" who still acts like she's still 19. Whether that means she's the same party girl she once was or the naive bookish college girl, an older woman who retains juvenile characteristics is an undesirable partner by default—whether or not she invests in any physical upkeep. Not only is she completely undesirable as a sexual partner, but a life partner as well.

And of course, if you've successfully reproduced, there is literally less of an incentive to invest time in looking like you have ultimate reproductive fitness. Time is unkind to our bodies, so concessions have to be made as well on being realistic about yourself—like I said, a woman stuck in the past is not a good mate.

The best mate for anyone is someone who is experienced in such a way that he/she HAS learned from the past (whether it's hers or general wisdom handed down from our grandparents and beyond), and is applying this knowledge to better the lives of others and his/herself.

A purely alpha male is only a good father to an extent. He has to be judicious, but knows when to compromise. Isn't afraid to discipline accordingly, but knows how to love and be gentle. A Roman definition of masculinity is fitting, not this TRP* bs.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

What's a Roman definition of masculinity?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Here's a great article on what it means to be a virile man in ancient Greece and Rome.

But Roman virilitas was even harder to achieve. A man with virilitas had to be tall, muscled, handsome, tanned, and well-endowed. (Roman men spent a lot of time naked at the baths.) He also had to be clever, energetic, confident, and politically engaged. But the defining quality of virilitas was self-control. Virilitas was an ethic of moderation, in which strong or “vigorous” powers were kept deliberately reined in, in the manner of a standing army. If a man became too aggressive, too emotional, or too brawny—too manly—his virilitas could be lost. For this reason, being a ladies’ man could compromise one’s virility. (“For the ancient Romans,” Thuillier writes, “giving in too often to the charms of women is in itself slightly effeminate.”) To be sexually powerful, you had to be in control of your desires.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 8 points9 points  (3 children)

A gentleman.

The last part is so accurate. I consider TRP guys seeking to juggle a bunch of women as not mature as men. Still trying to let women make them masculine, dissipating all their energy.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The last part is so accurate. I consider TRP guys seeking to juggle a bunch of women as not mature as men. Still trying to let women make them masculine, dissipating all their energy.

I disagree.

The issue here isn't one of maturity, but of gynocentrism. The natural state of the world is to be gynocentric, "women and children first". There's a tendency to provide for and protect the damsel in distress. To slay the dragon for the princess. To do things to impress the women. Etc etc etc.

Redpill, bluepill, purplepill, doesn't matter, they're all gynocentric. Whether you're bowing down to pussy on a pedestal, slaying truckloads of pussy or using your RP knowledge to have a successful marriage, doesn't matter. At the end of the day, the focal point for all men is the same mighty pussy. The difference is which strategy works best for you.

Only MGTOW are walking away from the whole game and refuse to worship at the church of pussy. However, they need to constantly talk about women, gynocentrism and why they're walking away because if they don't, they're just one sweet pussy away from becoming full on bluepill white nights! Why? Because that's embedded within male biology, to provide for and protect women.

It's in the male biological imperative to dissipate all his energy in a woman. He's gaining resources to "spend" on her. The only way to rise above this is to walk away from the whole game and go MGTOW. This is something that most men are not capable of especially earlier in life because the male desire for women is incredibly powerful!

Having the fortitude to rise above such a powerful biological drive to go MGTOW does take an incredible amount of strength. It often requires a great deal of maturity. However, I don't think that those who haven't been able to rise above the biological imperative for gynocentrism can be labeled "immature".

[–]AwkwardEmpath 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Intelligent response.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I agree you need beta traits to have a good marriage. But I disagree on personal fitness. 30 mins a day of jogging or if you can make it 30-45mins at the gym is all it takes to stay in shape. Most people live within 15 minutes of a gym. All they lack is motivation. I know a SAHM who at 36 is in the best shape of her life after wait for it.... 4 kids. Her husband is inshape too not muscle and fitness inshape but for a 42yo he looks better then some 20yos.

[–]Luckylancer96 3 points4 points  (0 children)

45-60 minutes 3 times a week is enough for muscle protection. Diet will keep fat away. So it is even easier :)

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But I disagree on personal fitness.

Where do we disagree?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess I misread how you worded things it seemed like you were stating being a dad and being inshape weren't possible at the same time. My mistake.

[–]Kiddingyoself 5 points6 points  (1 child)

People are attracted to health. Individuals should make their health a priority throughout life, maybe especially if they're parents. Parents teach more by example than by any other method. Also, you can only be so good a parent, or anything else, if you're unhealthy.

Having sound priorities, and a lifestyle to manage them, is very healthy, and attractive.

Some people are incentivized to stay healthy for the sake of being attractive to others to get what they want.. but good health is the means, and the end. At least to those who have a healthy perspective.

Edit - If you agree that people are attracted to health, replace the idea of people being "X/10 attractive" with "X/10 healthy", and see if offers perspective.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that being healthy should be a priority and that it's a good example to set for your children. What I was saying in the post in this regard is more of an observation. I'm saying that this tends to become less of a priority. I'm not weighing in on whether it should be more of a priority or not.

Additionally, being healthy and being trim and fit are not one and the same. Not by a long shot. You don't have to be shredded to be within the confines of healthy. Between being shredded and being obese, there's a lot in the middle.

I don't agree that people are positively attracted to health. (People are definitely negatively turned off by poor health). There's plenty of room to argue that good health is what subconsciously causes people to find attractive what we find attractive in the opposite sex. However, the key word here is subconscious. Consciously we're attracted to looks, figure, hair, voice and other very external and superficial factors. Whether health is the underpinning for why we find xyz attractive is irrelevant here because it's not conscious.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For RPW I don't think it really makes sense to look at your own SMV without also looking at your RMV, and likewise when evaluating potential mates. Realistically, because your (and your spouse's) SMV will gradually decline, RMV should be more heavily weighted than SMV. In fact, I think my RMV (and my husband's) have increased over time rather than declined.

While SMV will be the biggest factor in how often you get approached by men, it's RMV that will land you a high quality man for the long haul. It's true that a woman with high SMV and high RMV is more likely to land a man with high SMV and high RMV. Likewise, a woman with average SMV and high RMV is likely to land a man with average SMV and high RMV.

I think balancing expectations, like you say, is key. People tend to attract their equals, so level up as much as you can!