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When a Woman Isn’t in the Mood (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by rpMwafrika

I found this old article that explains pretty much explains the "never say no to sex with your partner" goal that's encouraged on this sub.

The article is divided into two: Part One http://www.dennisprager.com/when-a-woman-isnt-in-the-mood-part-i/

First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wife’s refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him. This is rarely the case for women. Few women know their husband loves them because he gives her his body (the idea sounds almost funny). This is, therefore, usually a revelation to a woman. Many women think men’s natures are similar to theirs, and this is so different from a woman’s nature, that few women know this about men unless told about it.

He addresses female solipsism...and how women react when told the truth about male sexuality...

  1. You have to be kidding. That certainly isn’t my way of knowing if he loves me. There have to be deeper ways than sex for me to show my husband that I love him.
  2. If this is true, men really are animals.
  3. Not my man. He knows I love him by the kind and loving way I treat him.
  4. You have it backwards. If he truly loved me, he wouldn’t expect sex when I’m not in the mood.
  5. I know this and that’s why I rarely say no to sex.

...and deals with each of these responses. I wish I could highlight the whole article.

Part Two http://www.dennisprager.com/when-a-woman-isnt-in-the-mood-part-ii/

In this part, the writer gives reasons why for a woman not being in the mood for sex shouldn't determine whether she denies her husband sex.

  1. If most women wait until they are in the mood before making love with their husband, many women will be waiting a month or more until they next have sex.
  2. What else in life, of such significance, do we allow to be governed by mood?
  3. The baby boom generation elevated feelings to a status higher than codes of behavior
  4. We have been nurtured in a culture of rights, not a culture of obligations.
  5. Since the 1960s, there has been an idealization of women and their feelings...her feelings are deemed of greater significance — because women’s feelings are of more importance than men’s
  6. Yet another outgrowth of ’60s thinking is the notion that it is “hypocritical” or wrong in some other way to act contrary to one’s feelings. One should always act, post-’60s theory teaches, consistent with one’s feelings
  7. Many contemporary women have an almost exclusively romantic notion of sex: It should always be mutually desired and equally satisfying or one should not engage in it. Therefore, if a couple engages in sexual relations when he wants it and she does not, the act is “dehumanizing” and “mechanical.
  8. In the rest of life, not just in marital sex, it is almost always a poor idea to allow feelings or mood to determine one’s behavior. Far wiser is to use behavior to shape one’s feelings.

He adds a caveat similar to the one we add on RPW

I conclude Part I with this clarification: Everything written here applies under two conditions: 1. The woman is married to a good man. 2. She wants him to be a happy husband.

If either condition is not present, nothing written here matters. But if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won’t tell you.

(edited for formatting)


[–]rpMwafrika[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I could highlight more from both articles but this summary is basically the gist of it.

EDIT:

A kind man with little ambition is not masculine, therefore not desirable to most women. Likewise, a kind woman who is not sexual with her husband is not feminine. She is a kind roommate. Furthermore, a woman who denies the man she loves sex is not kind.

Pure RP gold.

[–]bsutansaltTRP MOD[🍰] 15 points16 points  (12 children)

I'm reminded of this thread, which I agree with.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/2bg6ra/rant_in_the_moodi_hate_this_phrase_hate_it/

I'm not in the mood to clean the bathroom or go to work, but it happens anyway because it NEEDS TO BE DONE. Otherwise I'll have a filthy bathroom or not food on the table. We do these things, such as having sex even when we're not really in the mood, because that's what is required to make a relationship live on. Once you stop having sex resentment sets in and you're just really complicated roommates.

if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won’t tell you.

And when they don't tell you the begin to resent you, they stop investing, and things fall to shit. Guys aren't stupid. They want sex and will eventually realize they're giving and giving and giving and not getting anything in return in terms of sex and intimacy. I've been down that road before and have seen it with others as well. It's often irreparable damage the woman is inflicting on the relationship by turning down sex more often than not.

[–]ColdEiric 7 points8 points  (3 children)

It's often irreparable damage the woman is inflicting on the relationship by turning down sex more often than not.

Then she acts surprised and hurt and wounded, when he has met someone younger in addition to her.

[–]stillnoturday 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Am I the only one that if the chick isn't into it then I'm not anymore. Is that an LTR exclusive thing that she should just do it. I guess I don't understand the "mood" thing because if you are doing stuff before sex happens if she seems disinterested in that I just don't see a need to be around a chick like that.

[–]mrp3anut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The idea here is that she doesn't say no but it is implied she also participates and shows interest. If a woman is saying yes but giving off a "just get it over with" mentality then she has missed the point.

I can't speak to what goes on inside a girls head but I gave noticed that the girls I have been with that didn't refuse always ended up glad they didn't.

I liken it to why you work out. Every time I get off work and just don't feel up for hitting the gym or going for a jog etc I force myself to anyways because by the end I feel 10x better than I did before.

[–]AerobusTRP MOD 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You honestly just can't make this shit up. Women screw themselves over (metaphorically) by not simply spreading their legs, and then act shocked, surprised, confused, hurt, etc when her man, denied of one of the very few things he wants out of a long term relationships, finds someone who'll give it to him.

Women really aren't logical.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

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    [–]bsutansaltTRP MOD[🍰] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    It's not. More often than not once you get into it, it's like "why don't we do this more often??!"

    Like that one woman researcher on the topic said, sometimes women don't remember they like sex and have to do it frequently to remind themselves, or something to that effect. Most people feel attraction before and then have sex, but for many women it' the opposite for one reason or another.

    edit: found the video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2MAx95m20 She discusses what I was saying around the 11:30 minute mark. Then she gets into talking about the 4 stages of desire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexual_response_cycle

    The research she cites By Dr Basson says millions of people have steps 1 & 2 reversed. I think Basson is on to something, because in this article the author basically hits upon why physical escalation done correctly can so often lead to sex:

    http://suzigodson.com/2013/10/dr-rosemary-bassons-non-linear-model-of-responsive-female-sexual-desire-or-why-your-wife-wife-never-wants-to-have-sex-with-you/

    If, a man makes sexual overtures and a woman allows herself to experience the sensations of her partner’s touch, she subsequently begins to feel some awareness of arousal building up.

    In terms of pickup, this model she suggests makes a ton of sense:

    http://i.imgur.com/JNbPnRo.jpg

    • Emotional Intimacy is the building of comfort and rapport
    • Sexual stimuli is physical escalation, aka kino aka haptics
    • Psychological and biological inputs are things that raise buying temperature
    • Sexual arousal is more physical escalation of a sexual or overt manner (basically 1st or 2nd base)

    And the rest is pretty straightforward. Read this for the full description of the non-linear model section:

    https://www.arhp.org/publications-and-resources/clinical-fact-sheets/female-sexual-response

    [–]jmottram08 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    This is like saying "Who wants to ever do something that they don't want to?"

    Guess what? Sometimes work is great and I love my job. Other times it sucks and is a chore to do. But I go anyway to keep my job.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    If you're seeing it that way, then you're obviously not having sex right. You should find it enjoyable and you should be enthusiastic. That sounds like you would agree to sex and then just lay there like a starfish. That's not enjoyable for anyone.

    [–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If you think of sex as a chore, then you are doing it wrong. You should get a partner that you are actually attracted to and then your sex life might not be so much of a chore.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]AerobusTRP MOD 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I used to visit there, and my thoughts of it back some 7 months ago are the same as they are now: about 80% of the problems could be solved if the wife stopped making excuses and had sex. The wives are too stupid/ignorant/stuck-up to do so, however.

      [–]JackGoldsteinWrites 20 points21 points  (2 children)

      You know, my girlfriend is very often in the mood when I'm not. I put my man pants on (or in this case, take them off) and do my job.

      [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Same here.

      [–]valleycupcake 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      This is so important. It feeds into the whole love/respect dynamic. If you don't respect your man's needs, he withdraws love. Sometimes, through, it happens the other way around.

      When I was married and my guy came home from work six hours late, played video games for two hours and then decided he wanted sex a few hours before I needed to get up for work, you better believe I resented it. He would keep waking me up until I assented, so I was able to tell myself I was doing my duty as a wife. But even saying no for a few minutes before saying yes can be damaging when done repeatedly. On the other hand, he should have cared that his poor time management was causing me dangerous levels of sleep deprivation. Unhealthy all around.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is a problem on his end. Using games as an outlet is fine but it can become addicting and time consuming. You have to spend time with your SO for there to be any bonding. I hope this worked itself out and the cycle of this broke..

      [–]valleycupcake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Unfortunately it got worse and worse until we were toxic to each other and we split up. Thankfully I was able to acknowledge my part in it and work toward improving myself. It isn't an issue in my current LTR.

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      1. The woman is married to a good man.

      2. She wants him to be a happy husband.

      That's why I'm here.

      Thanks for posting.

      [–]AerobusTRP MOD 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Thank you for giving RPW ideas a try, instead of just laughing it off as most BPers do. If you tried this, and it didn't work, big deal. Did anything catastrophic happen? No. Meanwhile, instead look what's happened. You've tried these ideas, and as you said so yourself in your recent PPD threads, you've seen an immediate, positive change. I'm glad to see you try these ideas and have them work to benefit your relationship.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Me too. Thank you.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]AerobusTRP MOD 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      Well keep in mind half the women in marriages today slutted it up on the CC and settled for a BB that they aren't sexually attracted to at all.

      Being with a good man (the first assumption Dennis Prager makes) and wanting to keep him happy (the second assumption he makes) is much more likely to occur if you did not settle for someone, but instead picked a man with alpha traits.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]AerobusTRP MOD 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Exactly.

        [–]lollipopsnsunshine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        This RPW piece of advice has definitely been the most useful for me. When my SO and I partially lived together I was almost never in the mood and would reject him a lot because I was so stressed out from school. It definitely took a toll on our relationship. I just wasn't interested in sex and didn't see the point. Part of the problem was me just getting all in my head and putting a mental block up which caused me to not take care of my man.

        I will always remember the night I really put this advice into action. My SO started kissing me and indicating he wanted to have sex. It was around my graduation and I definitely wasn't feeling it and was super stressed out. I remembered this advice and decided to test it even though I didn't think I would climax. I was so wrong. I started putting effort in, got really into it and my SO gave me an amazing orgasm. Unless there is something seriously wrong with me (like being super sick or something like that) I will never reject him again.

        [–]AerobusTRP MOD 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        (Very few men will confess to the amount of hurt and eventual anger they experience when repeatedly denied sex).

        This stood out to me. Many men in relationships today simply can't admit it. If they do, they resign themselves to being labeled misogynists.

        Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual nature’s desire for variety for the rest of his life. To ask that he also regularly deny himself sex with the one woman in the world with whom he is permitted sex is asking far too much.

        I love this bit. So many women just don't realize this at all. Every single day there is a subconscious urge for me to have sex with a variety of women. The urge is always there, regardless if I have feelings for a woman at the time or not. Having sex with a partner you're committed to, as a man, helps to subdue these urges; however, if you're wife or girlfriend denies you, it's harder to subdue these urges. This is one reason why many men in sex-starved relationships cheat.

        (and she needs to – women should not expect men to read their minds. He is her man, not her mother.)

        Speaks for itself.

        Everything written here applies under two conditions: 1. The woman is married to a good man. 2. She wants him to be a happy husband. If either condition is not present, nothing written here matters. But if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won’t tell you.

        Also speaks for itself.

        These articles are pure gold. I'm going to print them out and show them to any future GF to see her thoughts, and judge how good GF material she'll be or not, based on her response to this.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I remember reading about how some feminist writer wrote in response to these columns and the title was something along the lines of, "Dennis Prager encourages marital rape." I mean, what?

        [–]AerobusTRP MOD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Feminists in a nutshell. They lack reading comprehension, logic, and common sense to even get a glimpse of the meaning behind these articles.

        [–]proprioceptor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I think this really gets at why the "do it until you're in the mood" and " don't worry it will you'll end up enjoying it" advice misses the point. A) that doesn't always happen. B) it isn't about us, it's about us keeping him satisfied.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        RP Man here married to a BP woman. I've been trying to improve myself and my marriage, and make my marriage more RP, for 2+ years now.

        A relevant incident happened to me last night that perfectly captures what is being discussed in this thread.

        Yesterday was my birthday. My wife and kids were great, and nice, and kind to me all day. My wife had bought me some great presents that I really wanted. She bought a great steak (which I grilled) and she cooked up some very tasty side dishes. She also bought me a six pack of my favorite beer, some flowers, some balloons, and a cherry chessecake. She was fun and flirty all day (despite the fact that she was having PMS). I felt very loved.

        Then that night, after the kids went to bed, I initiated sex and she turned me down. Her reasoning: she "just wanted to surf Facebook, watch a little TV, and then go to bed." Ouch.

        Now logically I know that my wife does love me and is attracted to me. We have regular, good sex, and generally have a fun, flirty, marriage. Logically, I know that she was probably just a little too tired to be in the mood for sex, or she was feeling overwhelmed from the day. Plus, I know that she's at the low point in her cycle when it comes to desire for sex.

        But emotionally, my brain doesn't care about any of that. The rejection felt like a slap to the face, especially given her reason. Instead of logical thoughts about how much she cares about me, I find myself have irrational thoughts about how maybe she's not really attracted to me. I find myself questioning whether I really want to be with someone who isn't attracted to me. I find myself considering relationships with other people, like the girl across the gym that I just locked eyes with. I hate myself for having these thoughts, but I can't help it.

        Rejection stings like shit (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise), and more importantly it allows all those thoughts and urges that men suppress when they are in committed, loving relationships to come creeping in....

        [–]thereddespair 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Fuckin hell - the surf facebook part and tv part

        [–]norcaligirl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        As a wife who is currently on the receiving end of frequent rejection - I agree. It stings like hell. Makes me doubt myself. Makes me doubt my marriage and generally sucks.

        [–]KirstenKitten 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        I feel like most women really exaggerate the effort and energy required to have sex. Even if I am not in the mood at all it is not much time or effort out of my day to just have sex and it has such wonderful rewards for a healthy relationship. Hell, just lay in missionary and show some enthusiasm, it's not a big deal.

        [–]thereddespair 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        I agree. And if the case is more of the sex not working out for the woman and thats why shes saying no then thats where communication sets in. I can get it if youre rolling around in pain due to something but like someone commented up there - you do have time to surf the net for nonsense but you cant spare a few minutes to give your guy what he needs, its ridiculous. I think it borders selfishness

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Prager is a rather conservative radio personality. Not knocking it just saying he is - not that it's bad or good.

        That being said - some might not take him seriously. I personally find the article good as it does pertain to the way I feel.

        This is a good clip. About 18 minutes but worth it http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2MAx95m20

        It's a Ted Talks on the Sex Starved Marriage and how it is damaging in some cases irreversible once the bad cycle is in full swing. Just FYI women don't have the low libido market cornered. There are men who refuse sex with their wives and it's just as damaging. Anyways, worth the watch and summed up my feelings accurately

        [–]CaptinMatt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Almost every woman I've been with tries to deny sex, shortly after we started having sex, as a test.

        My response is always the same. I shrug my shoulders, and tell her some form of "that's cool.", and that I'm going to leave. Before I can get my coat on and out the door, she's got her arms wrapped around me begging to come back to bed, and her sex drive does a complete 180.

        Showing that you're willing to walk away is the most effective play. But you have to mean it.

        The way I see it, if a woman I'm investing in 100% isn't in the mood for sex, (a pretty fun activity on the grand scale of pastimes), then I'm not in the mood to be with her.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [removed]

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [removed]

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        If you look at common gripes in marriage, one of the most common among men is that they want sex more often.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [removed]

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Go back to TBP.

          [–]TempestTcup 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          U MAD BRO?

          [–]CaptinMatt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Almost every woman I've been with tries to deny sex, shortly after we started having sex, as a test.

          My response is always the same. I shrug my shoulders, and tell her some form of "that's cool.", and that I'm going to leave. Before I can get my coat on and out the door, she's got her arms wrapped around me begging to come back to bed, and her sex drive does a complete 180.

          Showing that you're willing to walk away is the most effective play. But you have to mean it.

          The way I see it, if a woman I'm investing in 100% isn't in the mood for sex, (a pretty fun activity on the grand scale of pastimes), then I'm not in the mood to be with her.