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METATRP & RPW (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

Over the course of time since I discovered TRP and later, RPW, one theme seems to keep recurring - confusion and debate as per what TRP or RPW is really about, who is more/less RP and what is more/less RP. I will add my thoughts here (or at least part of them). I welcome your thoughts, discussion, agreement and disagreement in the comments.

What is TRP?

The Red Pill is the understanding of human nature. Particularly male nature, female nature and the nature of inter-gender relationships and interactions whether big or small. TRP is amoral. It's all about understanding human nature and nature is amoral (which is not the same as immoral). You alone can chose how to live your life. You are responsible for your choices because nature does not negate your power to chose.

Men and women have different needs, wants and desires. Often times, the actual things we need, want and desire are the same, but their order of preference is different. Our hierarchy of needs are often opposite (but not opposing).

The specific sub called TRP veers from pure RP philosophy with its obsession with casual sex. RP philosophy teaches us about human nature. It isn't a religion, there's no right and wrong. it's amoral (as linked above). But human beings can't remain objectively amoral. TRP sub chose to travel down one path, RPW chose to travel down a different path.

What is RPW?

The path traveled by TRP (which I will try to minimize discussing), is a path which uses its knowledge of human nature to exploit nature for personal gain with little to no regard for anything other than ones self. Some women have been doing this for generations, using their sexuality to get ahead in life in many ways. Men recently figured out how to manipulate the game for their own benefit as well. This is what you'll see over at TRP if you care to look there. While these strategies may be effective for men to gain casual sex, they aren't what women need or want in the long run, just like (most) men don't want to live their entire lives only chasing casual sex. Life of this sort feels empty after a while.

RPW takes an entirely different approach in its understanding of the very same core principles. The men and women on this sub wish to live a more wholesome life. A family life with a life partner whether that includes children or not. Modern marriage has a very high rate of failure. This is at least partially due to the sense of entitlement that modern men and women have. This is a very sad state of affairs and the men and women of this group are waking up to this. We wish to change this. We can't change anyone else, but we sure can change ourselves.

Our opposite needs, need not be opposing at all!. We really can live together in harmony, in loving homes, loving marriages and loving families. When we are realistic in our idea of love, and realistic in our idea of sexual attraction and realistic in our expectations, we will have happy and healthy marriages for many long years together!

We recognize that sometimes we need to tame our nature so it doesn't destroy our marriage. Other times we need to quell our inner fears and insecurities. We need to remember that our spouse may not see things the way we see them. We try to appreciate and be grateful of/to our spouses. Always improve our SMV and RMV and to remember that perception and reality aren't one and the same

Conclusion

We really can live together in balanced harmony. If we all work on ourselves and our marriages, if we're a bit more realistic and generous, we really can have it all! We really can have the loving and caring marriages like the marriage of my grandparents who I had the privilege of growing up next door to.

Cheers!


[–]LifeHasLag 10 points11 points  (1 child)

RP is a collection of theories. I believe it would be unwise and unintelligent to limit oneself to one group of theories; I digress. RPW is the community seeking to use these theories for the benefit of themselves, their man, and children in some cases. In my opinion, this also brings a safer place for people to speak without liberal or leftist pressure, and that is what I identify with. This is a counter culture.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Thanks for your post. These are both very different forums, as we all know. I think TRP is geared toward maximizing the male imperative for sex while RPW is geared toward maximizing the female imperative for commitment. If you visit TRP, you will often find men saying "never get married," which you never see on this sub. Both, as you said, revolve around the amoral RP philosophy. From my experience TRP often has an immoral bent and RPW often is very moral. This is not law, as both subs are made up of individuals with their own takes on things.

What both subs have in common is self improvement. Both acknowledge that this should be done for its own sake, but will help in attracting a partner (whether that for casual sex or marriage).

I see RPW as a way to get an all-too hard to find reality check. If I ask for relationship advice from feminist friends, they often act like everything is the man's fault and treat me like a battered woman if I think otherwise. Women here also encourage fitness, wholesome hobbies, and homemaking skills that are often dismissed in this day and age. I know if I ask for advice here, I will get a gentle but firm hand delivering whatever news I need to hear, even if I don't want to hear it. There is little judgement here regarding our pasts, but we get a straightforward interpretation of how our pasts affect our future. The ladies and gents here focus on how we can change for the better to have a better life tomorrow.

One thing I don't like about TRP is their general acceptance that women are children and that we can't​ be circumspect or logical about our decisions at all. I think our sub is evidence that that is a sweeping generalization. It is a men's sub, however, so it's not my place to criticize.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Thank you very much for your thoughtful input. I'd agree that TRP takes a turn towards immoral with its constant promotion of an immoral hedonistic lifestyle which is self centered and does nothing to better this world. Sexual promiscuity of this nature/is considered immoral by arguably every code of morality except for the ancient Greeks.

I'd say that RPW is very family oriented. A family included - at the very minimum - a man and a woman. I wouldn't say that's geared to the female imperative, I'd say it's geared towards harmony between both male and female imperative. TRP and TwoX (and many others) have something in common - us vs them. It's like the row of little boys opposite the row of little girls in the school yard. These are shouting "boys are better than girls" and those are shouting "girls are better than boys".... What's beautiful about RPW is that we don't have to engage in that kind of childish behavior.

general acceptance that women are children

I think that whoever came up with the term was probably describing how women are more emotionally driven and more prone to mood swings etc. Then the 17 year Olds took it from there....

Let's face this simple logic - if women are children, you can't get frustrated by their childish ways. If you get frustrated by their childish ways, you expect them to be adults. You can't have it both ways. :) (I touched on the idea of personal responsibility in several of my posts. Needless to say, I believe that women are adults and responsible for what they say and do).

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I definitely agree that women are in fact adults and are accountable for what we do. It's true, we are more emotional, but we don't have to terrorize people with our emotions.

I'd I'd say that this sub is the only one that's pro-man and pro-woman. That's what I like about​ it. It acknowledges the differences in the sexes while denigrating neither. I honestly think that's a much healthier and more pro-society way of approaching things. I think if TRP and TwoXChromosomes were left to run things, the species would go extinct because​ of the antisocial behavior of both groups.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

pro society

Exactly!!! In my last comment I was nitpicking on your contrast of TRP being about the male imperative and RPW being about the female imperative. That would be TRP vs TwoX :) RPW is pro society and pro family and pro harmony between the sexes as you just described.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I hope the women here will chime in with what RPW is/means because while you wrote efficiently and authentically about what TRP is/means, you weren't able to capture the heart of it from a woman's view.

Please take my response in the good faith it's written in. It's not meant to be a dig but it does directly point to the heart of male interaction and interpretation on RPW as is a current topic on this sub.

[–]Jayms 8 points9 points  (1 child)

For me, RPW means knowledge of how to be a better person and a better wife to my husband. I adore my husband so much and, when I realized some of my actions were hurtful/disrespectful, I worked to change them ASAP. I love him so much and enjoy learning of ways to communicate that to him in a way that he understands, to show that I respect him, care for him, adore him, etc. RPW helps me learn more about myself and how to be a better partner.

When we were dating my husband said that he wants to be with me but, if I didn't want to be in the relationship, he would be able to move on. At the time I felt like he wasn't that invested and didn't care, but I later learned that he would be really broken up if our relationship ended but he was thinking logically and knew he would survive even though it would be painful for some time. So I always felt like he's a catch, he's not desperate, and he chooses to be with me because he loves me and our relationship brings him a lot of benefits.

We are both very honest about how we are with each other for selfish reasons, because the other makes us happy, etc. My knowledge of RPW is used to make myself more attractive to him because I love it when he compliments and adores me and gets excited by me. I also really love him and want to give so much to him and I am happy when I see him happy, so I use what I learn to make him even happier. Basically it's a tool to make our relationship better and both of us feel even happier.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

From what I gather, many/most women here have similar reasons for joining RPW.

When we were dating my husband said that he wants to be with me but, if I didn't want to be in the relationship, he would be able to move on. At the time I felt like he wasn't that invested and didn't care, but I later learned that he would be really broken up if our relationship ended but he was thinking logically and knew he would survive even though it would be painful for some time.

This is spot on!

It also has to do with men not showing emotional weakness. But of course, a broken relationship will hurt just as much for a man as it does for a woman even if he really will move on afterwards.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hope the women here will chime in with what RPW is/means because while you wrote efficiently and authentically about what TRP is/means, you weren't able to capture the heart of it from a woman's view.

Thank you. You're right, I can't ever write anything from a woman's view because I'm a man. I also hope the lovely ladies of this sub will chime in with some female perspective. I did ask for it at the very beginning of the post ;)

Please take my response in the good faith it's written in.

Of course!

It's not meant to be a dig but it does directly point to the heart of male interaction and interpretation on RPW as is a current topic on this sub.

That was the inspiration for this post.

[–]ivegotsomequestions0 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Great post. I agree, although I would add that sometimes women's sexual strategy clashes with men's (as with marriage/no-marriage), and I prefer that RPW uphold women's sexual strategy in those instances. MRP is a place where men can pursue their optimal strategy within relationships, women also need a space like that. It gets complicated because the success of a woman's relationship depends on prioritizing her man's needs in most things, but we can't lose the structure that keeps us safe while doing that.

Agree that this is a relationship-building sub. There may be room in RP theory to argue that women should pursue casual sex if that's really what they want (saw a post like that yesterday), but it's beyond the scope of this place to help with that or say anything more than "Ok, if you're really sure." People here generally think that a healthy relationship is the bee's knees and if you don't have that, the solution is to get to a place where you can achieve it, not to give up and pursue a lifestyle whose benefits we don't understand. There are subs that are way better equipped for women to discuss going after casual sex.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great post.

Thank you.

although I would add that sometimes women's sexual strategy clashes with men's

But does it really need to clash? I don't think so. I think we are opposite but not opposing as explained in this post. See also my exchange with u/southernathena in the comments of this post.

There may be room in RP theory to argue that women should pursue casual sex if that's really what they want (saw a post like that yesterday),

RP theory is amoral, but RPW as a community does take a moral stance. Casual sex is strongly discouraged and incompatible with RPW as explained above as well as in the comments of u/MsSadieDunham over on the post you are referring to.

[–]Willow-girl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think one big difference between the communities is that T/MRP tend to be hostile and demeaning toward women. (MRP especially is a circle jerk where the men constantly reassure one another that their wives will never be able to measure up to their greatness! This is rather humorous coming from a bunch of guys who are working their asses off in an attempt to get those same wives to resume sleeping with them, lol.)

But I digress. I think this is a much more positive place; most of us generally like the male gender and want to be good partners to our men (current or future).

[–]Cardiscappa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(MRP especially is a circle jerk where the men constantly reassure one another that their wives will never be able to measure up to their greatness! This is rather humorous coming from a bunch of guys who are working their asses off in an attempt to get those same wives to resume sleeping with them, lol.)

I laugh because they're always peacocking about how logical men are and how overtly emotional the women are yet RPW seems to be the most rational and level headed out of the three RP themed areas.

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[removed]

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Hmm... the post is all about how RPW is different than TRP. For the bulk of the post I focused on RPW. What you're quoting doesn't sound like it was ever posted on this sub. It sounds like a rant from a frustrated man who was just hurt by a woman he loved. If you go elsewhere on the internet, you'll find plenty of anti male rants that are just as offensive if not more so.

RP theory is about understanding human nature. Human nature is amoral (see the linked post above for an explanation of amoral). Human nature doesn't treat the genders equally in many many ways. Here at RPW we use our knowledge of human nature to better our marriages.

Hang around here with an open mind and many of your objections will melt away.

[–]Cardiscappa 5 points6 points  (9 children)

Hmm... the post is all about how RPW is different than TRP.

Absolutely. What I was trying to convey was how I see the flip of RPW - TRP. I'm seeing a lot of conflicts with TRP and RPW and I am trying to understand how they can be of the same movement when I feel the TRP is incredibly bitter and a little egotistical where I see RPW as wanting to understand and not bitching and writing long self important 'field reports' on how nasty men are, like I see in TRP.

Human nature doesn't treat the genders equally in many many ways. Here at RPW we use our knowledge of human nature to better our marriages.

I understand, but what I see in RPW is that the genders are equal in the sense that it takes two to make a relationship (and society) to work. Night needs day.

In TRP I see that women are to be slept with and tossed; do no get emotionally invested. Women are not needed in a relationship. A woman is only allowed in a relationship because that's what the man allows. All women are less intelligent than all men and shouldn't be given responsibilities. TRP is not about finding good quality women to marry and have a family with. TRP is not about guiding young misguided women to be the best they can be (re: save from feminism). RPW seems to have a more logical view on the gender differences and making both genders thrive together. TRP seems to be opposed to that.

Hang around here with an open mind and many of your objections will melt away.

I've been lurking for a while and posting for less and I'm glad this space exists. I wish there were more places like this - the RP and PUA community seems to have a lot more presence.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

movement

I wouldn't call it a movement. A thorough understanding of human nature does not necessitate movement and certainly does not necessitate movement towards any one direction.

What you describe here is a big part of why I - a man - hang out around here and not over at TRP. See my comments on this post to u/southernathena

I also think that you should read less of TRP and PUA. That stuff is men's locker room talk. It's nsfw, nsfl, and nsfw.

[–]Cardiscappa 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Ideology may have been a better way of putting it. u/southernathena's post is perfect, far more eloquent than my own.

I also think that you should read less of TRP and PUA.

Quite possibly. I'm am reading less, but go back to it as I don't have any other material to read. RPW is only one place and doesn't always have new content. I'm also in the mind of learning as much as I can about the other side so I can "hack" my life accordingly. Let's say, I keep reading unfiltered men-talk that they wish women would make more strawberry cheesecakes. I may then want to learn how to make strawberry cheesecake to be a more appealing catch. On the flip, if I read that the overwhelming consensus are nose plugs are lusted after, I'd probably pass up on that. Essentially saying I see this as a critique and insight on things I may want to better myself in.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Aw, thank you! I really love the RPW community and hope I did it justice. I, like you, often read TRP for lack of content here, but you really have to not take it personally. And there really are some good posts there sometimes, like ones about meditation etc.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

hope I did it justice.

I like your postings here.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I hear you loud and clear.

doesn't always have new content.

The more you contribute, the more regular content there will be ;)

[–]testmypatience 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Would you be willing to moderate a mens version of this sub-reddit? It seems warranted. I'd be willing to work with such a sub-reddit with you but in a secondary capacity as I have other projects that take time. I assume there are a few other quality men around that would be interested or at least qualified to taking part in such an effort.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It seems warranted.

I'm not convinced it's necessary to splinter.

1) This sub wouldn't be the same if it was 100% of a single gender's perspective.

2) There already is MRP that's for married men. Look at the rabbit hole that place traveled down...

[–]testmypatience 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I disagree with both points but since we disagree I'll not move forward with the conversation about it with you.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay.

If it picks up steam, I'll consider participating. Until then, I'm not convinced of its necessity.

[–]The_Pagan_Queen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

From reading the FAQ, I have found my home! <3 RPW is an awesome place, I am glad it exists and I cannot wait to engage with this community.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We're happy as well! Welcome home! We look forward to your participation in the conversation.

[–]The_Pagan_Queen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yay! Thank you! <3

[–]ReddJive 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I will only speak about the male side of this Yin/Yang.

maximizing the male imperative for sex

No. Maximizing a man's masculinity. Sex is just one factor, although it is his most powerful motivator and goal.

There is no judgement of a man if he lives his life fully within his frame and in a masculine way. How can I judge? I don't live is life.

Not all alphas are equal. Alphas can be thought of a range of behaviors. Just as AWALT could be. Some lean one way more then others. Some Alphas are just not relationship material and they want it that way. Others are. These alphas understand what it takes to maintain and keep a relationship. THe fallacy is in thinking there is one ALpha to rule them all, and that certainly drives each alphat o improve but logically it cannot exist.

A man is Alpha simply becasue it's his world. No more no less.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hmm....

I read what you quoted and it didn't sound like something I wrote, so I reread my post and all my comments and I couldn't find it. It's therefore a strawman.

[–]scallopkidEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It looks like he's trying to reply to SouthernAthena's comment, she used that phrase.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh. Ok