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RELATIONSHIPSMen love women, women respect men. (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

Men do not respect women, women do not love men. What does this mean?

Defining love

Love is an emotion which brings two people together. There are a variety of (sometimes opposing) reasons which may drive (different types of) love, but the common denominator between all types of love is that it brings two people closer together. The stronger the love, the closer they will be to one another.

Love is a feeling that isn't rational. Logically speaking, a husband would stop loving his wife as soon as she started to nag, criticize, cajole etc because these things drive him away from her (hence his withdrawal). If love followed logic, very few husbands would love their wives. By the same token, parents would stop loving their children when they did things which cause pain to the parents. But love isn't rational, so husbands continue to love their wives and parents continue to love their children.

Love is what drives giving and generosity. Thus, husbands and parents continue to provide for their wives and children even as they stomp their feet and cause emotional pain. Because love is an irrational bond that brings two people closer together.

Defining respect

Respect is earned. You can be loved for no good reason, but you cannot be respected for no good reason. A brain surgeon gets more respect than a regular surgeon because he earned it. A top tier lawyer gets more respect than a regular lawyer. What brings more respect to one person over the other is the level of achievement which earns that respect, what makes one person more loved than the other is the level of closeness to the lover.

Respect is therefore far more logical and rational. There has to be a reason to respect. The person has to earn respect and they can lose their respect when they no longer deserve it because they stopped earning it or because they did something disrespectful. OTOH, love doesn't work that way. A person can still be loved even as they're declared guilty of heinous crimes.

Men own love, women own respect

This is why women are obsessed with confirmation of his love and men have a deep need for her respect.

A woman needs her man to say "I love you", to buy flowers and gifts and for him to continously express his love for her. She expects this regardless of what she does or doesn't bring to the table. She expects it to be unconditional. While true unconditional love doesn't exist, men get pretty close to it in loving their wives. Women instinctively know this and therefore expect him to love her despite all her nagging, criticisms, pms, and any other of her crap he needs to put up with.

A man needs to feel respected by his wife. However, he knows that respect is earned. Therefore, if he isn't being respected, he'll assume that he isn't worthy of it and he'll try harder to earn it. He isn't likely to expect unconditional respect even though her lack of respect hurts him deeply.

This places men at a disadvantage because nagging, criticizing, cajoling, correcting and other forms of disrespect come natural to women. A man can constantly put you in your place, but that's almost guaranteed to wear him down over time. Certainly, you don't want to be a drag on his mental wellbeing. This is why it's so important to find reasons to respect him for the things he deserves respect for and to flaws which can be overlooked.

Conclusion

Men own love and need respect from their wives. Women own respect and need love from their husbands. The more you respect him, the more you reward his love. The more you disrespect him, the further away you'll drive him. Meet his love with respect, nurture his love with your respect. You have the soft power of influence. You can make your home a happy home.

Cheers!


[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (8 children)

Though I think the sentiment of your call to action (respect your men, love your women) is good. I disagree with your logic and arguments. I think you are over-simplifying your definition of love to fit your message.

The Greeks had four words to define love: agape, eros, philia, and storge or in simple terms: charity, passion, friendship ("brotherly love"), affection (due to family ties or identity i.e. love for your country). Your definition neglects agape love and wrongly attributes storge love (parental) to the same "irrational feelings" in which you describe eros.

I also believe you went wrong when you define respect as a wholly different concept to love. You can respect someone without love, but you cannot love someone (philia) without respect. An ideal relationship has not only eros, but also agape and philia (potentially storge if marriage occurs).

I also disagree that men do not need love to fill fulfilled in relationship. If they did not need love (eros), then all men would remain single forever and be content to feel respect from colleagues. Head over to /r/deadbedrooms and you'll find plenty of men unfulfilled in their relationships because they are not receiving love (eros) even if their wives are perfectly satisfactory in every other way. Or head over to /r/relationships and read about men unsatisfied that their wives do not show them affection (philia and storge) even if they give them respect and perform their "wifely duties" (though this is a rare situation I have read this exact issue there).

Now, agape love i.e. sacrifice and charity is the "greatest love" and is often attributed to God. If a relationship does not have agape love, it is fatally flawed. What's interesting about agape is that it is not a "feeling", it is action. This is often why some people argue (myself included) that love is a choice. You choose to love your spouse every day through sacrifice big or small. Feelings will follow action and mindset. Read about the study where if you smile despite not feeling happy, your physical actions cue your emotional ones leading to a happier state. This is a direct example of action leading feelings and also why people can "grow to love" each other.

Ultimately, I disagree with you because your reasoning is too simplistic. If relationships were this simple, they would indeed be easier. Men do need love as do women (as do children, animals, and elders) because love is not merely feeling and encompasses not only passion, but affection, loyalty, respect, and sacrifice.

[–]kaitopet 8 points9 points  (2 children)

This was such a well thought out argument! :)

My interpretation of the post was that a man is satisfied when his woman respects him immensely, and a woman is satisfied when her man loves her immensely (but OP told me my interpretation was wrong... still confused about what he meant). Initially I agreed with this idea, but after reading your comment, I think it'd be better to reword.

As you said, men obviously want more than just respect, or else they'd just get their respect from other sources. So I think what I really meant was that men and women prefer to be shown different kinds of love -- or at least prefer to be shown love in different ways. I think women typically like to feel that they are loved passionately and irrationally (OP's definition of love and maybe your definition of Eros), and men typically like to feel that they are loved and appreciated for the things that they've earned (OP's definition of respect and maybe your definition of Philia).

Either way, I definitely disagree with the idea that men can't respect women and women can't love men. Even by OP's over-simplified definitions, that isn't true.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Love is willing the good of the other.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

[–]g_e_m_anscombe 8 points9 points  (1 child)

When my husband was disrespectful toward me, I felt l like I was drowning in an ocean I could never escape. I had no doubt that he loved me, but love wasn't enough. I can't tell you how much happier I am when he respects me.

My husband definitely seems to express the need to feel loved more than he expresses a desire to be respected. Maybe that's because I'm worse at expressing love in his love languages...

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I agree that men need love, the point is that it's unlikely that she'll love you to the degree you love her

[–]Spazzy19 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Then you're with the wrong woman.

[–]WaterlillyWoman 21 points22 points  (7 children)

I know that my Mother lost any and all respect for my father after he cheated on her while she battled cancer. Ma was able to hide much of her pain but we children knew and will never forget. My hackles raise when I hear of all the men that whine over "AWALT - they will leave you when going gets rough" The Men are no better.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Ouch. That really hurts...

With respect - 1) people have the freedom to chose. TRP discusses human nature. Meaning, what people are likely to do. 2) your father cheated, he didn't leave her. While this is extremely hurtful to you and I'm in no way excusing it, human male nature is to need sex. Your father's cheating actually shows how a man will stay with his wife until the end.

[–]WaterlillyWoman 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Your father's cheating actually shows how a man will stay with his wife until the end.

So does a woman who emotionally cheats on her veteran husband when he contracts ptsd and becomes unloving.

My Father is a weak excuse for a man and I am glad that we children got to choose where we would live. (I was 17 at the time, my brothers about two years younger.)

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely!

I once wrote a post on this, understanding infidelity.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Your father's cheating actually shows how a man will stay with his wife until the end.

You are assuming that her mother died. Based on this comment:

My Father is a weak excuse for a man and I am glad that we children got to choose where we would live.

it appears that she was being treated for non-fatal cancer.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You are assuming that her mother died. Based on this comment:

No such assumption was made. My point was that he didn't leave her when she got cancer.

[–]darla10 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Statistically speaking, men abandon wives at much higher rates when wives get seriously sick.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

it reads negatively.

Please be specific. I can't respond to this comment as is.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I didn't address the dynamics of how a couple falls in love or gains respect for one another, my whole post addresses couples who have already achieved that state in their relationship. Therefore, it's unclear to me what exactly you disagree with. Please clarify.

[–]Aomicb 25 points26 points  (5 children)

I don't think you know what real love and respect is.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Please enlighten me.

[–]Aomicb 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Your posts stereotypes women in a negative way and make's men look like sad victims. Men who don't respect women probably won't find a woman that loves them or respects them. Everyone needs love and respect.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

TRP is to accept truths about human nature even if it's uncomfortable or not politically correct. I'm calling human nature as I see it. If you think I'm wrong, please explain why.

[–]Spazzy19 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Because we're calling human nature as we see it and express it too. It's really simple and you're choosing to discount everyone else's arguments and experiences because you're just set in your beliefs.

[–]mistixs 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Wait so are you admitting that sometimes, women are more rational than men (since love is apparently irrational but respect is not)?

[–]kaitopet 7 points8 points  (6 children)

I agree that men need respect (and women do not) and women need love (and men do not) in order to be satisfied in their relationships. But I disagree with the first sentence of this post -- I think men can still respect women and women can still love men. The ideal relationship is one where the man and the woman love AND respect each other.

As a personal anecdote, I love my boyfriend in the sense that you described. It's very irrational, and if he treated me poorly or did something else to lose my respect, I would still love him. (Though my lack of respect for him would likely ruin our relationship.)

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (15 children)

What is your purpose with posting this in RPW?

Not being rude, just genuinely interested.

[–]Boobear3 15 points16 points  (7 children)

He's saying men command respect from women by doing noble things, while they put up with all kinds of shit from women, AND while still unconditionally loving women. basically it's a humble brag for men, of sorts. I don't think it belongs here, but oh well.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Yes, may times yes. Especially the part about not feeling an inclination to respond thoughtfully.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    From my experience, if a man tries to make a woman love him (being a beta orbiter and a nice guy is nothing but that) he gets neither love nor respect, but aiming for respect gets him both of them. Respect is a key to a woman's love that's why Men need respect, because without it he loses everything.

    Same goes the other way, if a woman aims only for respect (Being successful with careers and such) she'll get neither respect nor love from men, but by having his love she guarantees his respect as well and that's why Women need love, It's the sign that relationship is still intact, and i mean actual love not saying words and buying flowers without any passion.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Very well said!

    [–]Aomicb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    He should probably rethink, and keep lifting.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

    What is your purpose with posting this in RPW? Not being rude, just genuinely interested.

    To have reasonable expectations. A man who expects his wife to love him to the degree he loves her or a woman who expects her husband to respect her to the degree she respects him, will likely be in for some real disappointment.

    What u/boobear3 and u/hyperfemme said are not at all what I had in mind.

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    A man who expects his wife to love him

    This makes it sound like you're writing for a man, no? Wouldn't TRP be a more suitable place for this? I mean, you don't see RPW's creating new posts over in TRP.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    You cut what I said in half. I also said

    or a woman who expects her husband to respect her to the degree she respects him, will likely be in for some real disappointment.

    TRP is anti LTR's. RPW is pro the family unit which includes a husband and wife and requires balance in trying to fulfill the needs of both.

    [–]nawinter77 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Why do I, as a woman, need you to tell me what my expectations should encompass in order for them to be reasonable?

    Also, I am going to ask him, but I am pretty sure that my husband respects me.

    Least he better.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

    Why do I, as a woman, need you to tell me what my expectations should encompass in order for them to be reasonable?

    If what I'm saying makes sense, wonderful. If it doesn't make sense, explain your counter position.

    Least he better.

    With an attitude like that, do you think he has the freedom to be honest with you?

    [–]nawinter77 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I was kidding.

    That said he respects me because I fulfill the expected social contract between us as partners in life. Because I do fulfill those expectations, and quite well at that, yes, I don't just want his respect, I demand it.

    Love without respect is reserved for children. I am a partner, not a child.

    [–]Boobear3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Maybe read your original post again and tell me where exactly I pulled anything out of nowhere and how exactly I'm wrong. Thanks. Simply stating "that's not what I had in mind" isn't a proper response to my comment.

    Your original post is borderline offensive and if you can't see why then maybe you are too far gone.

    [–]Ale-tea 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Interesting point, mediocre arguments.

    Your logic and definition of love/respect is flawed on many aspects. Overall, it suffers of oversimplification.

    [–]maybeYmaybeNmaybeGFY 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    I came to describe the concept like this: women's love is based on respect, men's love is based on appreciation.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I came to describe the concept like this: women's love is based on respect, men's love is based on appreciation.

    By this logic, if a women loses respect for her husband, she'll fall out of love too. It's hard to earn respect and easy to lose it. Some women will lose respect for their husbands if he loses his job, is injured or gets cancer and becomes a useless burden. It's not fair, but it's reality. He may not be at fault, but she'll fall out of love with him anyway. I have no idea what the actual stats are on this, for now I'm simply elaborating on your point.

    I don't quite get your second point though, why do you say that men's love is based on appreciation?

    [–]maybeYmaybeNmaybeGFY 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    I mean that no amount of respect will make me feel love. I can immensely respect a man or a woman, but my feeling of love is generated by the level of appreciation I have for them, whether it be a good male friend who's always there for me, or a woman who loves and tangibly cares for me. The old, "way to a man's heart," adage is based in this. Men's appreciation of women's care is what makes us love them.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ah, I see your point. I'll have to think about it to know whether I agree on appreciation being the factor behind male love or not. I definitely agree with the adage of the way to a man's heart... or in more modern - RP - terms, keep his stomach full, his balls empty and your mouth shut and he'll be happy.

    [–]lidlredridinghood 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I think this is a great post. There might be some things not entirely in place, and maybe some words could be adjusted.... And maybe the tone is a little condescending if someone's looking for that.

    But you know what? He's right. I've been thinking a lot about this difference sense my Captain introduced me to it a few months ago.... and it was hard to accept. I do have "love" feelings... but there was some things my Captain told me to examine myself for when I said "I love you." One, a statement of "I need you" behind it. Another is "you make my life better". or "I feel vulnerable; please protect me".

    I started paying closer to attention to my own emotional biome when I had the impulse to say "I love you".... and these other sentiments are there. Yes, under the gushing.... but they're present, and motivating me to say "I love you."

    I do think that what we experience as "love", does come from a place of respect. As a woman, I want and need a man who makes my life better. Otherwise, what am I getting with my sexual strategy? So, respecting, and seeing that someone makes my position in life more comfortable or stable.... at least contributes to my experience of "love".

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you very much for your input.

    [–]tre_eight 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    A women will never respect a man who loves them regardless of how she treats him.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Bingo!

    [–]ReasonSeasonUK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    (guy here) I found it interesting to read your definitions because I have written a long and detailed blog post all about love and its nature as a part of metaphysics. To me love is much more than just an irrational emotion, but instead it is a fundamental and eternal dimension of existence, connected to the cosmos itself, as crazy as it may sound.

    You can be loved for no good reason.

    I don't agree here, love for no reason means there must be some illusion involved. I define love as admiration of virtue, as well as compassion and altruism. It's a spiritual, eternal and perfect thing that is expressed in limited form in humans. If you'd like to read about my theories on love here it is.

    [–]WaterlillyWoman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    All that could be classified as acts of love is "oneiitis" to men.

    [–]jackandjill22 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Great article.

    [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Thank you.