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THEORYA Red Pill Framework for RPW Vetting Men (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by [deleted]

There was a recent post here that talked about spotting "male losers" along the lines of vetting men. In that post, one topic that was brought up was that there's just not much content in RPW right now about the actual vetting of men, which is one of the most important parts of RPW as a practical approach to long-term happiness. I have about half an hour to kill, and I've been involved with the RP community for years (back before any of the RP subs were around), so I figured I would throw something together for the sake of discussion, if nothing else. I've also sent several women here in the past (mostly before the RPW/RPWi split) after giving them this same framework to work within, more or less, so I figured I'd throw it out here so I can at least just link people to it in the future.

 

The Key Concepts

  1. In RP parlance, alpha refers to the male behaviors that operate on the spectrum of attraction, and beta refers to the male behaviors that operate on the spectrum of comfort.
  2. Dating is a game where men want to get sex from a woman and women want to get commitment from a man. The higher quality the target, the better the rewards.
  3. Being consciously aware of alpha and beta tells can give you a big leg up in vetting men.

 

Different women don't necessarily want the same exact things out of a man in the long run, but there are some common things that virtually all women either do want or should want from a man for the sake of maximizing the chances of a happy, successful, long-term relationship. One framework for thinking about all of this, at risk of sounding like a dudebro, is looking at a combination of how alpha and how beta he is in general. Being just a little conscious of what you're looking at with these characteristics can really simplify a lot of the confusion that some people have with the vetting process.

 

Red Flags and Green Flags

What I want to introduce here is the idea of alpha and beta versions of red flags and green flags. A red flag is something that's a warning sign that a guy might not be a good choice, and a green flag is an indicator that he might certainly be a good choice. These can fall into alpha (attraction, masculinity, dominating his environment, etc.) and beta (comfort, financial stability, importance of family, commitment) categories.

 

It's also worth pointing out that some red flags don't really need the alpha or beta descriptor because they're so nuclear that they should blow the guy out of having a snowball's chance in the first place. I'm not going to bother with trying to classify those because it's asinine.

 

Before I get into specific examples, I want to point out that one red flag doesn't necessarily mean that a man is a bad choice, and one green flag doesn't necessariliy mean he's a great choice. However, if you're stacking up a few red flags, you'd better have some pretty incredible green flags to go with it if you want a chance at a long-term, successful and happy relationship with the guy.

 

Specific Examples

I'm going to rattle off some specific examples here. Feel free to comment with your own examples, discussion of my own examples (even if you disagree) and/or compile a big master list somewhere. I'm really just including a few examples for the sake of completeness in introducing this framework since it's seemed to work well for the women I've talked with about it.

 

Alpha Red Flags:

  • Regularly flirts with other women in front of you.
  • Makes it clear that he doesn't care about your feelings.

Alpha Green Flags:

  • Takes care of his appearance and looks attractive and presentable.
  • Has his "own life" with hobbies, things he does for himself, etc.

Beta Red Flags:

  • Acts needy.
  • Bad hygiene.

Beta Green Flags:

  • Financially secure and responsible.
  • Treats people well in general (without overdoing it to the point of supplication).

 

The Alpha/Beta Mix

The ideal mate for a RPW is going to be a guy who has a relatively balanced mix of alpha and beta. If he's got too much alpha and not enough beta, that means he's just going to want to hit it and send you on your way. If he's got too much beta and not enough alpha, then he's going to be so unattractive that it's going to feel like someone just dropped a dog turd in your lap when he tries to hold your hand. What this basically means is that you need to make sure you're dealing with a guy who has green flags for both alpha and beta, and not just a lack of red flags.

 

Anyway, I think that's a pretty decent red pill beginning framework for RPW to work within when it comes to evaluating potential mates. Feel free to make this your own or downvote it into oblivion.


[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (13 children)

Alpha Red Flags Prioritizes bro time over relationship time frequently (we aren't talking about guys night once or twice a week here)

Alpha Green Flags Maintains frame during shit tests, times of high emotional turmoil, or stress

Beta Red Flags Always or frequently concedes to your wishes rather than arguing or debating with you to "keep the peace" Responds poorly to shit tests

Beta Green Flags Wants a family Talks about marriage or LTR as a goal to be reached

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children)

    Yeah there's a reason why it's not called push push push push push push, but for w/e reason, it's not popular to say so in TRP right now. At some point, showing any beta at all has become akin to becoming a blue-armpit-haired mtf militant feminist lol

    [–][deleted]  (10 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

      An interesting question that essentially needs to be addressed within the TRP LTR community is what red flags can be forgiven. It's a difficult question, but one that really needs answering with relatively realistic expectations.

      Been dating college age girls for a while here. Haven't found a single one that wasn't in the double digits(trickle truthed ofcourse) with partner count.

      [–][deleted]  (8 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

        I've read the studies. http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

        At what point does a man just give up on having a family then? Because it's clearly not within reasonable reach barring absurd luck.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [removed]

          [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

          Just gonna be completely honest fam. You've probably been lied to. Also idk where that number is, but you're just throwing a statistic out there without citing a source. So I'm going to choose not to believe it until that is provided.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [removed]

            [–]rprollerEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            it's going to feel like someone just dropped a dog turd in your lap when he tries to hold your hand.

            LOLOLMAO Freakin lost it 😂. Thanks for that mental image!

            [–]SuperSlavisWifeEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            As someone who primarily deals with introverts in all of life, I think it's also worth noting the differences between introverts and extroverts.

            Both on the Alpha and Beta scales, an introvert may seem uninterested and detached whilst deeply caring for you, or he may seem quiet, warm and agreeable despite being narcissistic, cold and calculating. An apparent Beta may turn out to be a completely independent Sigma or an apparent Alpha may turn out to be insecure and needy.

            You need more exposure to introverts to actually get to the core of them. But AMALT: they are still looking for their share of the deal sooner rather than later and are happy to make that deal before you actually know them.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Total introvert here. I agree completely with what you just said. This is one of the big reasons why I absolutely hate when someone decides to completely disqualify a guy who has a lot of green flags and one or two "might be a" red flags.

            [–]snbdmliss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I think it would be great if we made a more thorough list of these, as to be honest i wish i would've seen something like this years ago, it would've saved me a lot of pain and heartaches.

            [–]glowhigh 3 points4 points  (4 children)

            I'm a longtime lurker and I think this is a great post but I have one question...

            Alpha Red Flags: Regularly flirts with other women in front of you.

            Isn't this just 'dread'? I see it get recommended a lot on MRP which honestly, doesn't make sense to me - I don't see the point of dread if you're in a LTR with someone. So, I guess this is appropriately labeled as a red flag. (And I know this sub isn't really affiliated with MRP, I'm just confused as to why it's recommended constantly over there.)

            And

            Makes it clear that he doesn't care about your feelings.

            Wouldn't this be considered 'amused mastery'? I've seen some of the women here actually praise it, which I'm also confused about. I don't get how amused mastery or dread would improve a LTR at all.

            I guess this is a irrelevant comment since they're already labeled red flags, but I'm curious as to why some praise them.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

            As far as dread and amused mastery are concerned you're correct: they serve a purpose for men and are very handy in situations. However, I would have a serious problem with my husband dreading me even though MRP advocates men doing this to their women so they don't get unmotivated in their relationship. That's the point. It specifically benefits the male. While some women may benefit in specific instances from dread, it's an exception not the rule.

            Amused mastery is the same thing. If a woman is shit testing or being unreasonable, AM is a perfect way to deflect. My husband does this to me (he doesn't know that's what it is but he does do it) but it's in specific instances where he is willing to bet that I'm being unreasonable. I usually am. However if he sees something is truly bothering me, it never progresses to him outright mocking me.

            That's where the mix of beta/alpha traits comes into play as an ideal man for a woman to date. Yes, when the waitress hits on my husband it's a good reminder and ego boost to me that DH is still very desirable to other women. It motivates me to keep my game on par so I don't have to compete with other women. Amused mastery is good because 9 times out of 10 I'll realize I'm being ridiculous and laugh, but taking these things to an extreme is not conducive to a desirable partner for a LTR. Hope that helps!

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Yes, when the waitress hits on my husband it's a good reminder and ego boost to me that DH is still very desirable to other women. It motivates me to keep my game on par so I don't have to compete with other women.

            I just finished typing a reply to the same comment, and I just want to point out that I think it's funny that I used virtually the same exact sample without realizing it until after the fact lol

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It's the first example to come to mind, isn't it? :-) we've all been in that situation!

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            These are really good questions. I'll address each of them individually, but the general theme is that when and how you use it is the key to understanding both and how each can be a red flag or green flag depending on the situation. Feel free to ask more questions and stuff because I don't mind elaborating.

             

            On Amused Mastery:

            This is an easier topic than dread to cover, so I'll hit it first. Amused mastery (AM) is generally a mindset for approaching women in bratty situations where you don't get caught up in whatever drama they're caught up in. This is a lot different than ignoring genuine issues that a woman has or showing that you don't care about her.

            For example, if a woman is going on about how Brenda from some church group is such a hussy because she didn't use Duke's Mayonnaise in the chicken salad she brought to the potluck, that's a lot different than if she's going on about how she's really worried about her upcoming finals for her biology exam.

            A man who actually gets emotionally engaged with the former situation is exhibiting a beta red flag, but the guy who doesn't act like he cares about the latter situation is exhibiting an alpha red flag.

             

            On Dread:

            Dread is often overblown and over-complicated as a concept. The bottom line is that dread is simply a situation where a woman knows that the man has value and the ability to attract women. I think it's a bit of a misnomer, but it's stuck as a part of our lexicon now. There are essentially two types of dread, though all behavior probably falls on a spectrum somewhere between the two extremes.

            Passive dread is when a woman knows you have value because of the natural side effects that come with having value. If she sees other women looking at you, just because you happen to be there and not because you're trying to flirt with them or purposefully court attention, then that's a good example of passive dread. Passive dread isn't something really do so much as the natural consequence of being awesome, and if you notice, the first several levels of dread are all on the passive end, coming from the perspective of actually increasing your value and not being needy.

            Active dread, on the other hand, is generally frowned upon because it's a very "look at me" kind of thing. If I go out of my way to flirt with a woman in front of my SO, then that's a good example of active dread. What you're asking about in your question here is active dread, and it's even sometimes seen as a beta style of mistake because it can often come from a position of insecurity. For example, a man might feel like he has to flirt with other women to show off "how awesome he is." In the levels of dread, these come later after all of your passive options have been exhausted.

            Side note: Some women get really turned on when their man goes and flirts with another woman in front of them and gets a good reaction, but that's the minority of women, and that typically requires a very, very strong level of comfort, trust and commitment as a baseline. Because that's such an atypical scenario, I'm not addressing that specific scenario here.

            In summary, passive dread is when a woman is reminded that you have value because of the consequences of you having value that naturally occur. There's not much you can (or should) do about passive dread as a man. On the other hand, active dread is when you go out of your way to illustrate that you have value, generally out of insecurity (except as a part of a comprehensive plan that comes after all passive options are exhausted to make or break a marriage/LTR, as in the levels of dread description).

            For an even shorter tl;dr: Passive (good) dread is when a waitress flirts with me because I'm attractive. Active (bad) dread is when I flirt with a waitress because I want to be seen as attractive.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            If this is what you do with a half hour free I'd love to see what you do with an hour or two! What a fantastic beginning framework for a discussion! Hopefully we can all add something to this list, maybe it could be sidebar material! Thanks for your input on our sub. :-)

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thank you