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INSIGHTFULDon't be so afraid of us (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by StingrayVC

We get asked or told a lot here, when women are seeking advice, to be nice or to only give constructive criticism. This widely stems from the many threads where we give back what we've been given or where we are standing up for the integrity of this sub.

Here's something that the new women here need to understand. The vast majority of reddit hates us. It's reddit. It's full of SJWs who would love nothing more that to shut us down or subvert this sub (and turn it into r/relationships). What you don't see is how much junk the mods here clean up that you never see. Links to porn, posting of abuse hotline numbers, people begging us to get help, trolling, concern trolls, etc. It gets bad, but most of you don't see it. The mods and the women who have been here for a long time work hard to keep this at a minimum to keep this sub alive.

Now, the second thing to keep in mind is, we are a sub that promotes self improvement. Not a sub that wants to preserve your feelings. These two cannot go hand in hand. Self improvement requires looking at the difficult things in your life that you want to change. This is never going to feel good. We all have crap in our lives that needs to be faced if we want to change it. If you don't have the courage to do that yet, then you're not ready to be here.

We are here to hold that mirror in front of your face that you might not be seeing yet. Now when we do this, usually one of three things happens (I posted this in the Simple Questions thread but I thought it could use it's own post).

1) They come in asking for advice, we give blunt advice that goes against everything they have been taught, they feel the need to protect their feelings and they get snarky and rude. We probably will act in kind. We don't have to put up with that.

2) Women come here, know we will be blunt, are a bit scared of that and will often read a tone in their head that we are just simply not using. What I mean is, they hear a snotty tone in their head when they read our responses, when in reality we were writing things out perfectly kindly only in a very straightforward manner. Read what is written. Don't assume a harsh tone. Read it in a kind tone and it will greatly changed your perspective of what we are saying.

3) What u/CoochQuarantine said:

I agree that you need a bit of a thick skin when you first come here. However, most women don't want to head the truth. When I came here I was already desperate to learn through the cruel tutelage of these women who have what I want. It takes a real wake up call to shake up those last little bits of you getting rid of the idea you're a special snowflake. When women are here who genuinely want to start internalizing the info they project that. They can hear the things they did wrong because they want another (albeit harsh) perspective. We also have to weed out the trolls. We try to have people read all the literature first before posting and most people don't. they just read a couple of threads and then want to apply it but have no desire to do any self reflection. They still defend their behaviors and that of their shitty captains.

Though, it may seem cruel, we're are not trying to be cruel. It would be far more cruel in reality to just play to your feelings.

So, ask your questions. We will be blunt, but we don't spend our time here to be mean. We spend our time here to help women out because we care about them. The best way we can care about them is to quickly cut through the BS that we were all raised with. Ask questions. If you're feelings get hurt, ask yourself why. Don't get snarky with us (if you do, we have every right to respond in kind). Simply ask for clarification. We will continue to explain as best we can. Yes, we will reach a point where if you are still asking for clarification after a 200 comment thread we might give up. But if you are truly trying to understand, this will not happen.

And after you get your answers, you still don't agree with us, that's fine. We don't expect or need you to agree. Just understand that this is not be the place for you to give advice. There are other places for you.

One last thing, don't tell us how to answer your questions (contrastive criticism only please!). You're on the internet. People are going to respond how they are going to respond. If you're not ready for that, you might want to continue lurking.


[–]TempestTcup 23 points24 points  (8 children)

RPW is REALZ over FEELZ!!!

Women get so angry when something doesn't add up (perfect RPW but hasn't been able to find a good man for 8 years) and we peek into their history and see all this stuff that they weren't telling us. "Help me with my problem, but I'm not going to give you any information related to my problem!"

This happens constantly; women don't want people to think badly of them, so they don't mention things that reflect poorly on them. Then when we find those things in their history and bring them into the light of day, they get hugely defensive and combative. "What's wrong with [insert history here]?" Well, for one thing, if you didn't think there was anything wrong with it, why didn't you mention it in your post?

[–]tintedlipbalm 11 points12 points  (6 children)

This happens constantly; women don't want people to think badly of them, so they don't mention things that reflect poorly on them.

Like lying to the doctor.

[–]TempestTcup 7 points8 points  (5 children)

LOL, I always lie to authority figures :)

Edited to say that not always, but anything that can go on your permanent online record, such as any sort of vices.

[–]tintedlipbalm 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Everyone does! It's the human thing to do. As far as my dentist is concerned, I floss and brush without fail. Even if he can see otherwise...

[–]cxj 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Any doctor or facility would face catastrophic consequences for leaking anything you tell them. I work in medical and HIPPA is no joke. In fact if your shit winds up online you've basically hit the lawsuit jackpot

[–]TempestTcup 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ah, I thought they were going to put all patient records online so that all doctors had access. I remember one of the ACA people talking about it on TV but maybe that was early on.

[–]cxj 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Holy shit that would be the apocalypse of North American Healthcare lol. The critical mass lawsuits would bury the whole country. There are constant in services about HIPPA and it's implications for Healthcare practice. There is paranoia about a form with someone's name escaping the hospital lol

[–]TempestTcup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good to know, LOL!

[–]tintedlipbalm 9 points10 points  (5 children)

When I first started lurking here without an account, I was one of the women that thought this place could use some softness. Boy, are they mean! I remember /u/PhantomDream09 was much more sweet in the way she said things, and the other mods were scary!

But, like the strict parent of an unruly child, you begin to realize that RPW's clear cut direction is maintained this way alone. You begin to notice how women react when being disagreed with, when not being validated. And it's ugly to see.

The more I am here, the more I appreciate what each EC has to say. I get to see that there's real kindness behind it. Each lady has seen their own share of things, and they are here to help. I really can't believe it now when /u/StingrayVC is perceived as mean. But I think when you remove any coddling cues from written words, people will ascribe a harsher tone than it's meant to be. /u/TempestTcup is tough as fuck, but she is so experienced and wise. /u/_wingnut_ still scares the shit out of me (I love her), and I can't believe how lucky we are to have someone as her in our mod team.

I have immense respect for the regulars here, because they maintain this. I love when a new lady joins and stays! People have no idea how hard it is to keep a place clean of Girls Rule, Boys Drool until they see other places falling. I used to be on a music forum that got pretty much overridden by the feminist persuasion. Wingnut is so right when she uses the camel's nose metaphor.

[–]always-be-closing 6 points7 points  (4 children)

/u/_wingnut_ still scares the shit out of me (I love her)

Same dynamic as redpillschool on TRP. It's basically like having a grandparent. Intimidating if you're doing something wrong (and they have pretty clarified ideas about the matter)

[–]tintedlipbalm 6 points7 points  (2 children)

If anyone has helped me shape my views and have clarity about my desires/goals, it's her. It's surreal to have crossed paths in this timeline, of all people. Out of everyone that writes into this void.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If anyone has helped me shape my views and have clarity about my desires/goals, it's her.

She's such a clear thinker that she can give people clarity about a whole host of things. One just has to be willing to listen and not get nervous. Or if one does get nervous, ignore it.

People disregard the effectiveness of simply asking questions. It works wonders.

[–]littleteafox 4 points5 points  (0 children)

/u/_wingnut_ is great. She usually says what I'm thinking before I take the time to soften it up haha. She hits the nail on the head.

[–]cxj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

U/wingnut s viciousness is legendary. I view women as veloci raptors and wing nut as indominus rex

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

be afraid of me if youre going to act like a little fool. dont listen to her

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Listen to who?

Edit: Got it. Never mind.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

you lol

(i have to say im jk??)

[–]StingrayVC[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Not at all. It just took me a minute to get it. (No facial expressions on the Internet, dammit).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lolol

[–]abdada 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I've watched a half dozen of my favorite fitness/diet/lifestyle subreddits embrace the "always be nice" SJW rulebook and immediately fall apart and become a hug fest.

Those subreddits were about changing the lives of irresponsible "losers" but now they're just blue pill anti-shaming fap fests.

Glad to see the mods here take things seriously.

[–]tintedlipbalm 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I've watched a half dozen of my favorite fitness/diet/lifestyle subreddits embrace the "always be nice" SJW rulebook and immediately fall apart and become a hug fest.

Oh god, this. Even in real life. Went to a yoga place that was all cuddly and everything was optional, of course I didn't improve much there... I guess I really do miss my mean ballet teacher that I hated lol.

There's a fitness sub (xxfitness or something like that) that I had to unsubscribe from because everything was a huge rant about "being a woman at the gym" oppression

[–]abdada 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm watching one of my favorite diet subs hit the bottom because of it right now. Really obese unhealthy people are coming there en masse to get the feelz and no one is going to get healthier.

I also watched my absolute favorite fitness sub break down after one of the mods quit a few months ago over the feelz. Now the sub is a wasteland.

And worse -- if you speak out about the SJW feelz mentality, you get shadowbanned, losing all the free volunteer work you put into making reddit a community.

[–]cxj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Omg those poor oppressed gym women are the reason I may never join a commercial gym again. The women at my powerlifting/strongman gym are completely reasonable and actually take fitness seriously.

[–]WhimsicalWonderland 7 points8 points  (1 child)

What I really loved about this sub when I first lurked was the fact that everyone was blunt and to the point. I don't need the fluff. That's just coddling and settling to be mediocre. Thanks for always setting high standards for everyone!

[–]little_red_ 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Now, the second thing to keep in mind is, we are a sub that promotes self improvement. Not a sub that wants to preserve your feelings.

100% this. If you are a delicate flower, asking for a fault finding mission is not going to be something that goes over well for you, but if met with an open mind you may actually find that you are able to step back and see yourself from an outside perspective. Self-improvement is hard, not only because you have to admit that you need improvement but that you will lay out a plan of action that you MUST stick to in order to get the results you desire. It's so much easier to give up and pin the blame elsewhere ("there are just no good guys out there"/"no one really gives me a chance"/"you guys are just bullies and these are not actually flaws").

I have no horse in the race in your relationship and I have no reason to bring malice to the table. Advice given at RPW is solely because we would like to see you, with the problems you brought to RPW sub of your own free will, resolve your issues and have a happy and healthy relationship. I can only assume users who are posting at RPW are posting here specifically because they know we are not /r/relationships but when they get RPW-style advice sometimes the immediate reaction is to recoil and retaliate. Again, I have no vested interest in the success of your relationship, so if you decide to leave RPW in a fit I have no interest to chase you, but I truly do wish every woman that comes here the best and hope that they can take SOMETHING from the feedback.

I once again want to thank all the mods here for everything you do to keep this sub from spiraling out of control.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I have no horse in the race in your relationship and I have no reason to bring malice to the table.

Exactly. But this is so hard for people to see. I don't care what kind of relationship anyone has. It's not my business. If you come here asking for advice, you've made it my business. You've made it all of our business.

We can respond how we like and we like to actually help. Help rarely comes in the form of making you feel better.

*Royal "you" here.

[–]tintedlipbalm 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"you guys are just bullies and these are not actually flaws"

Or trying to turn it around to insult the people they're asking for advice. Just... why? It's grasping at straws by that point.

[–]little_red_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so much yes. but again, you can only help those who want to be helped!

[–]freshlybakedteehee 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm a longtime lurker. The "realz over feelz" attitude is EXACTLY why I come here. If I wanted platitudes and sweet nothings I would go to my friends for advice. I come here because I know I'll get honesty, no sugar coating. There's nothing wrong with being broken down so you can build yourself up to something greater than you were before. Thanks for all your hard work ladies.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children)

i understand where some of the bluntness is coming from and agree that it is needed; however, i don't always agree with the delivery. i am very direct (say what i mean and mean what i say) and i also believe in a strong yet kind delivery. i am surprised sometimes at the delivery of some advice here, despite the advice being correct. sometimes i think a more feminine delivery is warranted along with the direct, strong advice.

to be clear: a feminine communication style is not coddling. it is a delivery given with grace and empathy.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (10 children)

We don't owe strangers on the internet displays of femininity, we're not trying to win their favor or affection. We're feminine with the men we are married to/dating. The only thing we 'owe' any user on this sub is the truth. How that truth is communicated will vary from person to person.

I'm glad you have your own personal style and beliefs when it comes to giving advice - and you should contribute RPW advice in a way that you would like to see more of on the sub if that's something you think adds value to the community.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

not sure where you picked up that i think people "owe" people anything here. i never said that anyone here owed anyone anything; i just do not agree and think a different communication style could be warranted.

i suppose you mention a difference here: i do not think a display of femininity is only for people that you are trying to win favor or affection with. a feminine demeanor does not end at the bedroom for me - it is a way of behaving, thinking, and communicating with people and animals at large, including strangers on the internet. i am the same person here that i would be if we were sharing bunch, phantom.

i understand that reddit dislikes this sub, but that doesn't mean i need to dislike them back. my code of behavior, not yours. also, i wish that the rest of reddit would take a little time to extend compassion to those here - pretty much everyone - that are doing their best and trying to bring out the best in others. i think it is a fine and just cause. the trolling that outside reddit does on this sub is inappropriate and reprehensible. i know how hard these mods work on keep this sub clean.

i'm not sure that my advice or delivery is welcome here, despite that i think it adds value. i would like to contribute more threads and links about poise, etiquette, feminine demeanor and behavior because i feel it is in line with RPW and not discussed enough.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Femininity for some women is reserved solely for the man they are married to, for others, it is extended to the people they meet and interact with in their day to day lives. I'm glad that you extend it to all areas of your life, but that's by no means a requirement, and believe me - when you've been doing this for a few years, taking the time to be as considerate and gentle as possible is not only exhausting, it's unrealistic.

also, i wish that the rest of reddit would take a little time to extend compassion to those here - pretty much everyone - that are doing their best and trying to bring out the best in others.

Never do anything if your motivation relies on other people being grateful or appreciative. I do not expect anything from strangers, which means I'm never disappointed. I can help as much as I am able to without ever being weighed down by resentment when my efforts go to waste. I've worked with enough people on this sub, in the chat, and in my personal life to know how easy it is to fall into the trap of thinking that the progress the other person makes (or doesn't make) is a reflection of my abilities. You can give the perfect advice to someone that really needs it, and they may thank you and still completely ignore what you have said. Just don't make the mistake of thinking "if I say things nicely, people will listen" because it's not true. Sometimes people only start to hear what you're saying when you drop the niceties and get in their face a bit more. There is no perfect method, and what works for one person may not work for another. We're not therapists, or life coaches. We will give people the facts and the truth. Everything else is purely optional.

I'm not sure that my advice or delivery is welcome here, despite that i think it adds value. i would like to contribute more threads and links about poise, etiquette, feminine demeanor and behavior because i feel it is in line with RPW and not discussed enough.

You contributions are welcomed and appreciated. As I said, create the content you wish to see more of, and lead by example if that's important to you. I used to be far more concerned with how I phrased things, wanting to make sure I didn't rub anyone the wrong way. Now my priority is to tell people what they need to hear, and give them the truth.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

i feel like words or motivations of mine are being implied where they are not. once again, to be clear, never did i say that my motivation for anything depends on people being grateful. no where did i say that at all. i feel like you inferred that i change my behavior to "bring out" compassion from others - not true. this is simply how i feel i would like to behave. i stand behind my words and mean what i say when i say it.

i can wish for things to change, and for people to be more gracious and accepting of this sub, but i certainly do not change my behavior for it. as i said, my code of behavior, not yours. my behavior has served me well in life. i'm sure your approach has served you.

i think this is why my thoughts on etiquette and poise would not be welcomed here; it is an art where the sole purpose is to create comfortable, welcoming, gracious environments and interactions. you can tell the truth with grace. you and i do agree on the truth and the need to tell it. i think we disagree on how to tell it and the nature of grace.

[–]littleteafox 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Personally, I would enjoy reading a post on etiquette and poise. I've always been jealous of people who always seem to know the right thing to say in the right situations, who seem to just know how to put others at ease. My fantasy job has always been to be an Ambassador which I think those skills lend itself well to.

[–]ealanor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Off topic, but I on the other hand think that lessons of etiquette and poise could be very welcome in here.

When I started my journey and had remind myself that I can be nice, the first thing I did was to google etiquette and reminded myself of manners. It was easier to be nice, when you had some sort of knowledge about etiquette backing you up. It has also been nice to see how people respond to you when they notice that you show them respect with proper etiquette. :)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

i feel like words or motivations of mine are being implied where they are not. once again, to be clear, never did i say that my motivation for anything depends on people being gratefu

I know you didn't say that, and I wanted to make sure you don't slip into that thought process. I've seen it happen a lot, it's not an uncommon pattern.

I never said you couldn't wish for things to change.

Again, I'm glad you know how you want to conduct yourself. I encourage you to create the kind of content you want to see more of, and to give advice as you best see fit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

i work hard to manage my thought processes. i'm not perfect, but neither is anyone else, and i can only say it again: i mean what i say and say what i mean. passive-aggressiveness is a peeve of mine and i cannot stand it, so i try to be as clear as possible (thus my responses to you as well to clarify what i am saying).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand your clarifications, and I'm not irritated. Responses on threads are as much about the person you are talking to directly - as well as the people not in the conversation (readers). That's why I went on the motivation tangent. To make sure you're not pursuing this approach in the hopes it will be met with a higher success rate and then feel disappointment, and to make sure that anyone reading doesn't think they have to give advice a certain way. Delivery is irrelevant so long as it's RPW appropriate.

Furthermore, a lot of people get confused when the topic of femininity comes up. Some users make the mistake of thinking it solely has to do with how they look physically, other users think you have to be feminine (and/or defer) to everyone you meet (particularly if they are male). Being a RPW isn't about being feminine to everyone you meet, or conducting yourself in that way. Yes, it's completely valid to be feminine etc at work and with people - but not if you turn yourself into a spineless chimpanzee with no opinions. When I made that clarification (femininity isn't something we owe people) it was for a dual purpose.

That's something as a mod I pay attention to - when I say things I know it's going to be seen not just by you, but also by other users on the sub. Some of the users are still piecing things together.

I'm glad you say what you mean. It's a quality I think every Mod and EC on this sub shares with you.

[–]StingrayVC[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The only thing we 'owe' any user on this sub is the truth. How that truth is communicated will vary from person to person.

Exactly.