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THEORYBack to the basics - SMV (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

Please note - this post is only about SMV. RMV will be covered in another post

What is SMV

SMV stands for sexual market value. There are three components to this phrase, each expressing a different premise. The combination of these three concepts is SMV.

Sexual - what matters here is sexual in nature. Other forms of value (such as RMV) may or may not affect your SMV.

Market - sex is a transaction of sorts between a man and a woman. Of course, it's most enjoyable when the transaction element is tucked away and remains unseen, but it's a transaction nonetheless. Just like the foundation of your home is best when it's unseen, but the whole house relies on it, so too is the transaction element of sex. It works best when other elements such as love, desire and passion are what's visible. However, both men and women will become disinterested from sex if it's a one way street where their needs are not being met. This is because sex is a transaction of sorts. A market is a place where many transactions occur. (This idea really requires its own post)

Value - the topic of value has already been covered in this post

The sum total of these three concepts is - you have sexual value to the opposite sex, value which can increase or decrease. Even people who are in lifelong committed relationships have eyes and can see other people. Therefore, even though they're "off the market", sexual value is still valuable and can seriously impact the health of the relationship for good and otherwise.

What is sexually valuable

What makes something sexually valuable is determined solely by what adds sexual value to the opposite sex, causing sexual arousal in members of the opposite sex. If it causes sexual arousal for more people, it has higher sexual value. If it causes a stronger sexual arousal, it has higher sexual value. It makes no difference whatsoever whether you think it's sexy or not, all that matters is whether the opposite sex finds it sexy.

Female example - there are many women who say - he should desire me for me, as I am. At any size, with any length of hair, with any hair color, with any type of clothing etc. While it sounds idealistic to be desired for the inner you, the physical eyes can't see the inner you and the physical penis goes limp from such displays of the outer you.

Male example - there are many men who say - I should be able to be soft, emotional and indecisive and I should be sexually desired anyway. While this is idealistic thinking (and has certain manifestations that are good for marriage!), such traits will cause the physical vagina to dry up like the Sahara Desert.

It doesn't matter what you think is sexually attractive in you, it doesn't even matter if this is good, ideal or moral (TRP being amoral will be covered in another post). All that matters in the world of SMV is - does it have value in the sexual market place? Does this sell and who wants to buy?

Sexual market fluctuations

Like any market, value goes up and down based on many factors. Your dollar today isn't worth the same as it was yesterday and it won't remain the same tomorrow. Sometimes it rises, other times it falls. Just like with any product produced by any company - success depends on the value you bring to the table. Sexual success is no different.

If you generally look good, feel good and smell good, you'll have higher SMV. If one day you're dressed frumpy or you're having a bad hair day, your SMV will be lower that day. If your skin becomes rough, your SMV will be lower, if you apply cream and soften it again, it'll rise up again. After you shower, your SMV will be higher than before the shower. Just like the market fluctuations, your SMV fluctuates as well. The key is that it remain within the realm of normal fluctuation and not enter the realm of volatility.

When your SMV fluctuates too much it becomes a risky investment. For example - a woman who is a 6 can still attract quite a few men. If she applies a bit of makeup and dresses in the right clothing etc and elevates herself just a bit to a 6 and a half, the man's sexual attraction to her will rise accordingly. It's a win win. However, if she goes through one of those 7 hour long makeup and dress makeovers to the point where she's a different person - sure, she'll get more male attention in the moment, but the moment the clothing and makeup come off, that extra attention will quickly turn to disgust. She may have been able to score the guy if she presented herself genuinely, but the volatility caused by such big highs and lows will cause the value to drop through the floor. (Same is true with any other example for men or women. Imagine a guy who smells really good but that scent is really masking a strong body odor. Your attraction will turn to disgust when the good scent wears off).

Conclusion

SMV is a market filled with fluctuating value. Normal fluctuation is to be expected, drastic fluctuation turns you into a volatile investment that's just too risky to buy. All that matters is what's valuable to the customer. It's wise to give your partner ample reason to buy into your brand every single day!

Cheers!


[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (41 children)

Also to add: what you think is attractive about your own sex doesn't mean it will be considered attractive by the opposite sex. This is especially true with clothes and fashion. For whatever reason, girls get stuff to impress themselves that guys could care less about. No dude is going to want to fuck you just because you spent $50 to have Mona Lisa painted on your nails. In fact, it's kinda a turn off for lots of guys, yet women still do it and think it makes the hot. This is solipsism.

[–]lespetiteschoses 35 points36 points  (13 children)

No woman thinks that men find her Mona Lisa nails attractive, that's not what they do it for. A huge part of fashion is targeting the female social matrix.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 21 points22 points  (10 children)

Agree. Some things are about our own happiness or self care or whatever you want to call it. And even when the nails aren't important to men, if you are pulled together and stylish, you feel confident and feminine and sexy. Also, how you fit into the social matrix will impact your confidence. Those feeling reflects out into how others perceive you and impact SMV.

No one thinks that a man knows or cares about the difference between, say, designer shoes and knock offs, but if you feel good in them, that will show in your attitude.

u/LeftAndRed you are being uncharitable here and missing the mark a bit. Everything a woman does isn't necessarily with men in mind AND even the things men don't give AF about can still have an effect.

[–]lespetiteschoses 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Yeah exactly. Not everything I do to my appearance is for my husband's sake, I enjoy fashion and beauty in itself and have a lot of fun with it!

I wouldn't do anything that makes me unattractive to him, but he couldn't care less about my nail color lol.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (3 children)

but he couldn't care less about my nail color lol.

I have agreed to disagree with mine. Otherwise, I'd be wearing a lot of 'whore red' on my nails and lips. It has its place, but certainly not day to day. :-P

And tbh, from a SMV perspective, bright lips makes a lot of sense (idk about nails) -- but I wouldn't wear bright lips all the time because it's inappropriate for a lot of circumstances, which just makes me feel off balance or insecure.

[–]lespetiteschoses 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Hahaha yep if my husband had his way I'd be looking a lot sluttier on our date nights. Some looks need to stay indoors :p

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Amen to that!

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Otherwise, I'd be wearing a lot of 'whore red' on my nails and lips. It has its place, but certainly not day to day. :-P

Ha! Lol. 😂

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle here. Some things that women do are for themselves and other women. Some things they expect their men to notice. Some things are for the men specifically.

I think a pertinent point here is that many of the things men and women do "for themselves" just happens to be the things that makes them more attractive to the opposite sex. A person may consciously be doing something for themselves but subconsciously they're doing it to attract a mate.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I think you can easily argue that what we do for self care and self confidence ultimately goes towards attracting a mate. So in that regard, even the mona lisa nails are subconsciously part of that end goal.

But the idea that women think: "men will be attracted to my handbag" is a silly one and I get the impression that is what leftandred is suggesting up top.

However, I feel a little bit nicer when I carry a designer bag. It's a status symbol that some people think is important. Knowing that means I carry myself a little bit differently. Similarly with nails, I move my hands with ever so slightly more definite gestures when they are nicely done. It's probably incredibly subtle, but the overall result attracts, even if the originating thought when making these choices is "I like that thing" or "I like the way that looks".

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Your overall point is very good.

But the idea that women think: "men will be attracted to my handbag" is a silly one and I get the impression that is what leftandred is suggesting up top.

This is the point I was trying to negate. It isn't a conscious thing but often times, these things can be traced back to sexual strategy. Again, it isn't conscious.

I remember someone analyzing these things from a psychological perspective. I can't remember who it was. Might have been Jordan Peterson but I'm not sure.

I'm also not saying that this is always the case. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility among possibilities.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Ah then we are probably in agreement and just like to hear ourselves argue 😉

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's always fun to argue with you, especially if it's an agreement and an argument combo for $3.99 😂

[–]Ok_Philosopher 2 points3 points  (1 child)

that's not what they do it for. A huge part of fashion is targeting the female social matrix.

Yep. And sometimes women make unpopular choices because it makes them happy. They accept the tradeoff that even though it may make them less desirable in a man's eyes, they are happier about themselves when they look in the mirror.

I love TRPWomen, but (controversial opinion incoming) feminists have a point when they highlight so many discussions have the default as a woman's actions being targeted to make men happy or to be seen as desirable in their eyes. This is not always true, and it's worth exploring the other angles of a person's behavior.

[–]lespetiteschoses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think what you're describing is specifically a feminist opinion, it's just reality :)

A lot of men in this sub might think that everything we do is targeted at getting/keeping a man, but in reality men and women are both complex beings with a whole host of drives and behaviours. Of course it's important to be aware of what's attractive to a man if our aim is to get/keep one, but to overlook all of the other aspects of a woman's life is just disingenuous.

[–]Xtinamina 6 points7 points  (14 children)

No dude is going to want to fuck you just because you spent $50 to have Mona Lisa painted on your nails. In fact, it's kinda a turn off for lots of guys

Do you think there is any man alive that would decide not to f*** a girl solely because of whatever style she decided to get on her nails? She's not doing it for sex, she knows she will get sex whether or not her nails have an over-the-top application, or a simple classic one.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Do you think there is any man alive that would decide not to f*** a girl solely because of whatever style she decided to get on her nails?

It may be neutral or meh from a SMV standpoint, but it's definitely a negative from a RMV standpoint.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I'd think that it could be either negative, positive or neutral from a RMV.

I'm curious why you think it's entirely negative full stop?

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Because wasting that much money on something so frivolous is a sign of a high maintenance - very expensive - woman. Frugality is attractive in women from a RMV standpoint.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I think this might vary from man to man and what image he wants to project to the world. Generally RMV will be more variable than SMV. SMV is core programming to a large extent, with some personal preferences peppered in. RMV is all the rest of it and how she fits into his life (and he to hers).

Anytime you get into X represents Y (ie: nails represent high maintenance) you can't say with certainty that it will represent the same thing to every man, or carry the same level of weight for every man.

Not disagreeing that plenty of men will view it as high maintenance, but I don't think that is true across the board. And doesn't take into an account the men that don't notice at all or understand the cost that female maintenance represents.

As a for instance: I knew a guy who would only date women with highlights in their hair, as far as upkeep goes, that can be a pricey one. As a lawyer, he either didn't know or didn't care about the cost. It was about the type of woman he wanted on his arm.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think this might vary from man to man and what image he wants to project to the world. Generally RMV will be more variable than SMV. SMV is core programming to a large extent, with some personal preferences peppered in. RMV is all the rest of it and how she fits into his life (and he to hers).

Very good point.

Not disagreeing that plenty of men will view it as high maintenance, but I don't think that is true across the board. And doesn't take into an account the men that don't notice at all or understand the cost that female maintenance represents.

Point taken. I concede to your point. My original comment was too absolute. You're right, there's more variety.

[–]KittenLoves_Endorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I think it's a bit misguided to assume that someone with "fancy" nails gets them done at a salon/that they cost a lot of money. I have done some pretty intricate, detailed things with my nails; I do them all myself and I don't spend much money on them at all. I'm also not the only person who does this; nail art is quite a big thing and it really isn't an expensive hobby. It just looks like one.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think it's a bit misguided to assume that someone with "fancy" nails gets them done at a salon/that they cost a lot of money.

The comment I was responding to said it costed $50 to get the nails done in that way. I think $50 is a lot for something like that. Many men think this way too.

[–]lespetiteschoses 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That depends on your salaries and priorities in life. I'll gladly spend $50 on my nails, and my husband will gladly spend $50 on some fancy hiking socks. Neither of us understand the other's interests, but we respect and appreciate that they exist.

[–]lespetiteschoses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly :)

And also, even if it was expensive, a hobby is a hobby!

I don't have anything to gain from my husband's expensive shooting or motorcycle or sailing hobbies, but I love that he has them.

Likewise, my husband loves that I have hobbies that he's not necessarily interested in. He doesn't care about my stupidly expensive piano, but he loves that I have interests that I'm passionate about.

Being a well rounded woman is very attractive to most men, and things like fashion and yes even "Mona Lisa nails" can be a sign of passion and curiosity and are not always taken as being high maintenance :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

You don't understand SMV. There are plenty of chicks who drop SMV b/c they have some gaudy nasty nails. Can confirm, I have passed on chicks in part b/c of their nails which is why I used it as an example.

It's like crazy feminists who dye their hair, will someone still fuck them? Of course. Do they lose SMV with me and many other guys? Definitely.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is a prime example of the subjective nature of SMV. Sure there are some things that are generally universally attractive in women, but preferences differ.

My husband says all the time that there’s nothing sexier than when I go down on him in nothing but Louboutins (and maybe some Agent Provocateur), and he can watch my cherry red nails wrapped around him. He also loves the way my wedding ring looks when my nails are painted that color.

To you, that probably seems high maintenance or gaudy, and would lower my SMV. But, for my husband that are SMV + points.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You make a good point.

However - blue hair will cause a woman to lose more points on the SMV scale than whacky nails. Much more. That's why the counter argument to your argument is also valid in this case. Because many men won't even notice her nails and among those who do, not all will care. As I said in a different comment, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle here.

It's apples and oranges.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think /u/almostsurrendered makes a good point that sums it up for us: SMV can be highly subjective. I'd go for a saucy smurf head before I'd go for a lady with elaborate nails. I can tolerate stupid zealotry easier than I can high maintenance. Guys also have a broad range of sexual interest, so I suppose it has to be subjective.

My example about nails, while I feel strongly about it, clearly isn't universal and got some swift pushback. That's fine.

Perhaps the takeaway should be: "know your audience." While there are lots of universals (fit, toned, groomed), there are definitely some subjective areas. Some guys like pale girls, some want that tanned look, some like me don't care. If you got your eye on some great guy, maybe it's worth the effort to get an idea of what he's into maybe by figuring out if there's a unifying style to his exes. For me, an otherwise great girl would need to overcome her fancy nails for me to be interested. For other guys, it's attractive.

Perhaps this muddies the waters, but it's the best reconciliation I can see.

[–]Floofyboy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree with you. The large majority of men won't notice the nails. And most of those who do notice will not care.

But every men will notice the blue hair, and a a decent % of those will be turned off by it.

If we used numbers, a 8 whose nails becomes whacky will become like a 7.99, it barely matters. But if her hair becomes short and blue, she could drop down to like 6.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 8 points9 points  (11 children)

Yes.

Or women who expect a man to find them more attractive because they have a degree or a high paying job. That's what women find attractive in men.

Or men who expect a woman to find them attractive because they're a nice guy. That's what men find attractive in women.

[–]lespetiteschoses 11 points12 points  (6 children)

On a similar note I don't feel like many women think their job/education triggers sexual attraction in a man.

Maybe some women think this way, but most women I know see it as a complement to their RMV, and in many cases it does. My husband loves that I'm educated and have an interesting career, he's never dated a woman who isn't intellectually stimulating. Not all men care about this, but in my experience it's certainly important among smart, professional men.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I suspect that some women conflate SMV and RMV and that is where the education / career confusion arises.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On a similar note I don't feel like many women think their job/education triggers sexual attraction in a man.

There are definitely some who do. I don't know what percentage.

You're right that an income can be a boost to RMV. And u/girlwithabike is right that many people conflate SMV and RMV (which is one of the reasons for writing this post!).

[–]Xtinamina 1 point2 points  (3 children)

On a similar note I don't feel like many women think their job/education triggers sexual attraction in a man.

I don't know... judging by how much this gif gets passed around and commented on and praised makes me think otherwise.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/tn5QFCt

[–]lespetiteschoses 3 points4 points  (2 children)

She's saying she wants to be valued for her intelligence, not her looks. She's not saying her brain makes her sexually attractive.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

She's saying she wants to be valued for her intelligence, not her looks. She's not saying her brain makes her sexually attractive.

You're splitting hairs.

If she had accepted that brains add very little value to your SMV, she wouldn't be so upset that she's valued for her looks. Especially if we're talking about first impressions where looks matters more than brains. (By first impression I mean before actually meeting).

If we want to get really analytical, this can be interpreted both ways but I think that more women who pass this meme around are likely thinking along the lines of what u/xtinamina is saying.

[–]lespetiteschoses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I disagree.

She's saying she wants a man who values her RMV over her SMV. I know plenty of women who feel the same.

I'm not saying it is or isn't a good strategy, but as a woman, saying that you want to be judged on your intelligence is very different to saying that your intelligence makes you sexy.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I think high paying jobs (and therefore to some extent education) do have an effect SMV, but maybe not in the way you're approaching it. There's a well known saying, "There no such thing as an ugly woman, just a poor one." My husband had no idea how much $$$ it took to keep up my looks until we combined finances. It certainly is not cheap! Honestly, I think I look better at 25 than I did at 20 in large part because I spend more on my appearance.

Preventative Botox, skin care products, facials, chemical peels, lash extensions, manicures and pedicures, waxing, make up, hair cuts, hair coloring, hair products, contacts, fashionable clothes, food for my specific diet, personal training, our home gym equipment and extra money for additional fun classes all adds up.

Could I save in some places or put myself budget? Sure, but because I have a high paying job I don't have to. This gives me a SMV bump and makes me more competitive against other women. My husband enjoys the way all of these things make me look, and after explaining the costs and benefits of each treatment is happy to keep them in our budget.

[–]lespetiteschoses 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is so true. I also spend a lot on my appearance and my husband loves the results. Once you're beyond 25 or so money makes a huge difference.

[–]Floofyboy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yea but don't confuse things here. The better looks improve your SMV. You are able to do this, thanks to the high paying job. But the high paying job isn't what's attracting the men. Its the looks.

Its like if you bought a car, which allows you to go the gym, and then you lost a lot of weight, and suddenly you got tons of success with the men and said "well, the car improved my SMV". The mens don't care about your car.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s why I said $$ impacts SMV, not adds to it.