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DISCUSSIONDifference between girlfriend and wife "duties" (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by fairydust91

Yesterday someone made a post on being too "wifey" too early on which I thought was very interesting and extremely relevant to any woman looking for a future husband. So I'd like to ask all experienced people on RPW to elaborate a little on the differences between the two so that ladies like myself and Absolute Saint who aren't as experienced can understand a little better. IMHO at the start you should focus on your SMV. Then when you know hes into you, let your RMV shine through. What about later on in the relationship? Are there still things that you shouldnt do, as they are reserved for your future husband? Or do you slip into wifey mode after some time? Particularly in modern society where cohabiting before marriage is normal, are there some things we should keep for a husband? Please note I don't include finances - seperate finances are a given.


[–]crownoffeathers 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think as a girlfriend:

  • You still make LOTS of plans without him. It's not a given that you will spend all weekends/holidays/vacations together.

  • You take initiative on dates roughly equally. If he takes you out for dinner Saturday, you cook for him Monday.

  • You still go on dates, it's not all time spent at home.

  • You don't make big sacrifices for him, like following him to another country.

  • Only clean if you helped make the mess. (If you're living together, it's different, but if you pay half the rent you should do half the cleaning)

You basically see what level of commitment he is offering you, and match that.

[–]Shaela90 16 points17 points  (2 children)

The biggest relationship challenge is, in my opinion, preserving one's own identity as we were born to be men or women first and foremost. Husbands, providers, wives, mothers are just some of the roles we choose to play throughout our lives. What I'm trying to say is that we each have a duty to tend to ourselves first, then, just like a method actor becomes his character, we all mold ourselves for the roles we choose and try to play them to the best of our abilities.

I chose the method acting analogy because I think it is very similar to the build-up phases that a single woman( or man, for the matter) has to go through to become a wife(husband). Marlon Brando for example did a terrific job of becoming Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather, following the method acting technique, but he didn't just read the script once, agreed to it and emerged a Sicilian gangster ready to make offers people could not refuse - wink wink!

Too many women especially believe their whole worth or purpose or interest in life is to become a wife, above all and project their needs and desires on any guy they might stumble upon on a bad day and then complain they've been dumped yet again or used for sex. All the other people who posted here have a solid point when saying wife qualities will never spark a man's interest.

MEN(at least straight men) are looking for WOMEN, not wives, not mothers, not offspring-bearers. For a man to actually take an interest in knowing a woman, he has to be physically attracted first, then maybe mentally/intellectually attracted and then and only then he will start appreciating the presence or absence of wife/mother skills thus categorizing the woman in front of him. Women do the same mostly.

With the theory above in place, there is no fault over what are the build-up stages in case a woman wants to land the wife role:

*First and foremost, you should strive to be the woman he sees, is attracted to and imagines doing all sorts of nasty stuff to: attractive, sexy, upbeat, happy, positive. Don't be afraid to be a woman, do the things YOU like, live your OWN life, take care of yourself, dress up, seduce him, allow him to woo you, show yourself in a pretty light for as long as possible, as we all have a lifetime ahead of cooking dinners and dusting shelves. Marriage will only double the work. Again, same applies to men.

*Then, after he's made his move and shown himself interested in your physical qualities, he'll also want to see whether you are interested in the same things out of life, which is the mental attraction factor. This is when hobbies/interests/life goals/personality come into play, you have to speak your mind, be genuine, show him you've got your own life, hopes, dreams, ambitions, whatever those may be. And check if you can establish common ground. He's probably doing the same too.

*After he's seen what a nice(albeit a bit decorative, abstract) addition to his life you would be it's time to show him you can also bring value beyond your looks and personality. Then and only then, he is ready to really notice and appreciate what an asset a particular woman can be, elevating the quality of his life with her wife/mother skills. After all, to get to the mother point, you first need him to want to fuck you long enough.

Wanting marriage for the sake of marriage is wrong IMO, I've met marriage-minded men who I got seriously bored of. Although they were decent people, I could not shake the feeling they just wanted me to fill a role in their lives, a role any other woman could, they just happened to stumble upon me sooner. I don't believe in soul-mates necessarily but I do believe in checking the compatibility between myself and a man I date before I turn on the oven and start looking for my wedding dress.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This is amazing! It should be it's own post!

[–]Shaela90 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I thought about making a post out of it as I was typing the comment too, which I very well might do, since there are so many more things I wanted to say regarding the subject

[–]radioactivities9 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I do not clean my boyfriends place, aside from tossing a used condom in the waste basket. I never will clean his place. I'm a guest there.

I've cooked for him, some really good stuff, but not so much lately. Currently I'm plotting things I'd like him to do for me, which i would appreciate and would make him feel close to me.

Men bond by doing and giving more than receiving.

[–]JessTheGranger 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I've been told so many times that men bonding doing and giving but why is it so hard for me to allow my wonderful boyfriend to actually do those things for me? Especially since he's told me that he wants to do more for me.

Would you please share some of the things you'd like him to do for you? It would be greatly appreciated.

[–]radioactivities9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm still figuring it out myself. It actually takes more work/energy than I expected to figure out what I would like in that regard.

Well he usually drives. He pays most of the time for lunch and what not when we spend time together. Those are simple, standard things tho they count and make a difference.

My problem is more that I don't know what to ask than that I have problems receiving or any guilt with it. Maybe you have to work on that?

Oh, and I ask for massages, but often don't have to ask. Love them, and he enjoys touching my body so it's mutual.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I do not cohabit. He still has to work to meet me and see me. Cohabiting feels like moving forward to the woman; to the man it's a holding pattern to put off marriage. And it interferes with vetting. Breaking it off, if you ever must, is hard, but think about how much harder it is if you have to kick someone out, or find your own place.

Case in point, I've stayed in a house with housemates who bully me for far too long, due to being simply way too tired to think about moving, and not seeing many places open. I'm actively getting out now, but I let myself be accustomed to poor treatment because leaving was such a pain. I can't put myself living together in a LTR unless he's given his full lifetime commitment, after I've vetted him for worthiness.

[–]applemist92 25 points26 points  (9 children)

I think the main criticism of showcasing "wife qualities" is when a woman tries to showcase them to a man who isn't that interested in her. She thinks that showing him her cooking, housekeeping, and care giving skills will maybe convince him to be more into her. But that just never works.

If a man is truly into a woman, it will be some time before he notices if she can even boil water.

I think the main caveat is not to use wife qualities as an attempt to keep a man's interest. Because it never works.

Whether cohabiting, working toward marriage, or marriage veterans, if he's the commitment-minded type then it doesn't exactly matter what the situation looks like on the surface. Example: more and more ppl today are having a baby, moving in together for a few years, and then later getting married. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the traditional route but it seems to work for some people just fine. I personally know of a couple who did that and the husband/father never had any doubt in his mind about his wife. It's just how things worked out for them.

I've seen a lot of girls sabotage relationships by either 1) trying to desperately showcase wife qualities to a guy or 2) drawing weird boundaries for no reason other than to prove a senseless point.

[–]Rivkariver2 Star 42 points43 points  (2 children)

Showcasing homemaking skills to convince him to like you doesn't work. Very true.

Be warned...if you've ever read some of the trp blogs out there, there are a number of sexual tourism / American women are gross circle jerks out there. Sexual tourism as in, going to other countries to get notch counts with women there.

These guys that are only seeking an easy lay will harp on about how American women have no homemaking skills, but foreign women do. In reality, they simply seek out the foreign women who are into cooking, cleaning etc.

Many times I've read blog entries from these guys, bragging about some supposed Russian/South American/Asian plate who never puts up a fuss, cooks, cleans his house, and all that...who is a plate.

True or not, their dream is a plate who waits on them hand and food and has no needs.

They have no intention of dating her exclusively.

No intention of staying.

No intention of marriage.

They simply want a plate/servant who never speaks up.

Don't become that fantasy. Guard your heart and your giving, until he's stepped up.

FWIW, I have a friend who follows professional high class escorts on twitter. (He likes colorful characters as friends.)

He says they universally express shock at how modern women give themselves away so cheap.

Let that sink in.

[–]applemist92 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Yes yes yes!!! I say this so much!!

"These men have such high standards for the women they plan to treat poorly anyway."

They want a woman who is 100% pure wife material and an angel in appearance, but they want to do the same exact thing to her as some random American girl in a public stall bathroom.

They don't care about her at all. They find a 28 year old Ukrainian woman in her home country and compliment her on her clean apartment, good physique, cooking skills, and sexy heels and yet all they want to do is fuck her and never talk to her again.

Those men don't want to value those qualities in a woman, they just want to feel pride for being able to nail a girl who is of that quality.

Never serve these losers!

[–]HobbesTheBrave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never serve these losers!

They're plain idiots if they don't serve these women back.

If they have brains enough to charge the batteries on their electronics, you'd think they'd understand why other men serve their women back. Apparently they don't learn, because phones stop working for them instantly. Unlike these women.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 10 points11 points  (2 children)

If a man is truly into a woman, it will be some time before he notices if she can even boil water.

I think the main caveat is not to use wife qualities as an attempt to keep a man's interest. Because it never works.

These are really interesting points, and I find them true. Over at RP they emphasize proving your RMV through domestic duties but I've observed a lot of men staying with women who aren't the best cooks or may be a little messy. I definitely don't think being or not being the perfect Snow White housewife is a deal breaker. I find that personality, flexibility and approach to life are very important characteristics in a man being enamored with a woman. While being a domestic goddess may be the icing on your relationship cake, it certainly isn't what draws men to you - otherwise they would just hire a maid and get takeout.

What would be a unreasonable though, is if the woman wasn't a great cook but refused to learn either because "men can cook themselves" or because she's lazy. The opposite would be a woman who isn't a great cook but is willing to learn because she knows that once married, she needs to be able to cook, because maybe one day they need to look at their finances and eat on a budget, and she needs to be able to pull her own weight in the relationship regardless if she is not the next Gordon Ramsey.

[–]Waterboo2 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You can be great at domestic duties, but if you cannot make your man feel warm and happy with your personality alone, then he is not going to fall in love and stay in love.

[–]TheBunk_TB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn skippy.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (2 children)

if he's the commitment-minded type then it doesn't exactly matter what the situation looks like on the surface.

This is not true.

It's true that he may not realize during the period of NRE when he's head over heels infatuated with you. However, we all know that this stage doesn't last forever. It can't last forever. As soon as a few months pass, you better have some good RMV because even the most blinded, infatuated man will realize that you can't cook, clean or keep house. This will be an issue (unless he doesn't care about these things but don't count on that).

Remember, women own sex and men own commitment. This means that in order to get sex from a man, you need to have some SMV. This is easy for you because woman own sex. You don't need to be a supermodel to have enough SMV to be desirable to a man. However, if you want to keep him for many years to come, you'll need RMV. Homemaking skills are a big factor in a woman's RMV.

[–]applemist92 2 points3 points  (1 child)

That has nothing at all to do with what I was saying.

The part you quoted- I was saying that a commitment-minded man is simply that- commit-minded.

He won't up and leave his woman if she gets pregnant by him before they get married.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Not sure, but just a thought: girlfriend mode is a bit like wife-mode but without the boring stuff you do because you're committed. Like laundry, buying him non-sexy underpants, etc. Otherwise, you run the risk of highlighting the boring parts of a future with you, rather than the fun, flirty sexy stuff.

[–]teaandtalk4 Stars 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Also, on re-reading this: WOW, I've really been slacking off on the girlfriend-mode lately. I've been snowed under with a new puppy (and all the socialization required in the Critical Socialization Period) and been trying to show my love through a clean house & getting laundry done...but he'd probably prefer me to hire a cleaner & spend more time giving him blowjobs & quality time. Thanks for the reminder, past self!

[–]WhySoOverHeated 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would also like to thank your past self, and your present self, for this reminder :D I think I have totally misunderstood everything when it comes to attraction until just this moment.

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (25 children)

I actually disagree with the sentiment that there is such thing as too much girl game before you are married.

The 1st thing you have to do is decide being married to someone is the most important thing to you, even more important than the guy you are with. In otherwords, you have to be willing to walk away once you learn a guy is not going to marry you.

Then getting married is just a matter of being the most awesome, indispensable part of his life, and then reminding him that he will lose you forever if he doesn't marry you. Some men cannot see marriage as a good option, they see it as a bad deal for them, and no amount of girl game with fix that. But a lot of men can be swayed by top notch girl game.

The best thing you can do is show them how valuable you are, and give them a lot of reasons they don't want to lose you.

Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free? Because that cow is the best cow ever and can't be replaced, so you don't want to lose it.

[–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (8 children)

It not about "too much" girl game...the Q is, what is "GF" game and how is that different than "wife game"?

The problem with the path you described is women often vet, approve the guy, then work on becoming "the most awesome part of his life" aka he gets all the benefits of having a wife without marrying her....then when it gets to the "don't lose me" part, all that's left for the woman is to issue an ultimatum, an unpleasant, risky proposition.

There's no finesse. If you've found a guy intent on marrying you right away your strategy cam work, but it can also backfire terribly, because if all you have is the power to take away the nice things you bring to his life (aka threaten to leave if he doesn't marry you), and nothing additional to tempt him that you haven't provided (aka a carrot instead of a stick), then you've put yourself in quite the corner.

I'm typing while in grocery checkout line so apologies if I'm not making sense! Will edit or re-word later.

I also very much disagree with this binary you laid out - is getting married #1 vs being with the guy you love. It's not either/or in that fashion - you should never decide getting married AT ALL is your priority and I doubt the happily married women of the world made that choice. My priority is to find the right relationship and be in it forever, with maximum commitment from both parties as a way to ensure that happens and marriage as the most culturally, legally and emotionally weighty symbol of that commitment.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]teaandtalk4 Stars 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    happy cake day, MadScientistLove!

    [–]RedDetergent 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Sorry for asking, but what are those cake things? I see them pop up in peoples names sometimes, but never understood what it means. :p

    [–]teaandtalk4 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    It shows up on the anniversary of your reddit account being created :)

    [–]RedDetergent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh ok! Thank you :) :)

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    It's reddit birthday as in she joined reddit 1 year ago on this day.

    [–]RedDetergent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you :) :)

    [–]sekoiasan 5 points6 points  (5 children)

    So as far as I understand, you start investing in the guy with your max effort and girl game once you've vetted him, right? Like once you've decided he's marriage-material, then you max out your game to demonstrate your value, while stating clearly your goals and expectations of marriage. Once he's seen your value and still doesn't commit, you walk.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    What I would say is you don't blindly submit to a man before you've finished the vetting process. Girl game or not. I think that it's up to each woman to use her common sense about how much to give and when in the relationship. But submission, you don't just give that to any man, he has to demonstrate to you that he's worthy of your submission.

    [–]sekoiasan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Yes, this makes sense. However, how do you demonstrate your potential as a first mate without submitting? Do you simply follow him on the simpler and more trivial matters, that don't affect your life dramatically? E.g demonstrate spontaneity and an enthusiastic willingness to follow his planned dates?

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah or just being pleasant or if he chooses a date or whatever but don't let him make decisions for you like money wise or other important decisions. It's been a while since I dated so I honestly forget the little milestones.

    [–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Well, I wouldn't really relate the two variables quite like that. If you have some understanding of statistics, it is like "x and y are correlated but only because they are both correlated to z". Ex. Shark attacks and ice cream sales are correlated, but really they have nothing to do with one another because they are both correlated to summer time.

    I wouldn't deliberately "hold back" on girl game during the dating process. The reason is that as you are vetting him, he is vetting you too. He is trying to see if you are worth his time, just as much as you are. So, to not employ your girl game to it's full potential would be a mistake.

    However, when I say "full potential", I don't mean "max possible" because there is a 3rd variable here, and it is that no trust has developed between the two of you. If you throw on too much girl game at the beginning it could look obsessive. Imagine overly attached girlfriend.

    An obvious example would be; if you clean his house for him, and he's wondering how you got in. But a more subtle example would be; if you cleaned his house for him, and he is upset that you went through his things.

    I think part of the dating process is learning where boundaries are and slowly building enough trust to dissolve some of those boundaries. I think part of girl game, a more subtle part, is having the social skills to know how much is appropriate and would be welcomed.

    So, I wouldn't employ "max girl game", not because you have vetted him yet, but rather because enough trust hasn't been built.

    [–]sekoiasan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Ah okay, I understand. In the trust-building period, I should still apply girl game with common sense and social adeptness. It's good if I can apply non-intrusive girl game that simultaneously demonstrates great potential.

    [–]applemist92 4 points5 points  (8 children)

    If you've been in a LTR for five years why are you not married yet if that's your rule?

    [–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    Good catch.

    It is because I disagree with the fundemental premise. Marriage is not the most important thing to me, I met a man who is much more important to me than that. I do not see what value marriage would add to my life, and I especially don't see how my life would be happier if I walked away from the most amazing man I've ever met for the sake of "marriage". I already have everything I would want out of a marriage so the ceremony and the contract are meaningless to me.

    Simply put, I am not married because I can not agree to the first and most important step.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Yes yes yes yes yes to this whole comment. Needs more upvotes. Divorced men remarry more easily than divorced women - because their youth and beauty is gone.

      [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes yes exactly, totally agree!!

      [–]applemist92 7 points8 points  (3 children)

      Ehhh then your advice doesn't really do much at all.

      You shouldn't tell women to stick to their guns if marriage is more important to them than the man. That's bad advice. The point of getting married to a particular man is because of his character not bc of some weird archaic rule about signing a contract.

      If you yourself said the man matters more than the marriage, it's not really good advice to even tell women of the option to prioritize marriage over the actual guy. That's just bad advice for anyone.

      Edit: typo

      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      I would have left my husband if he didn't marry me. Its a non starter with me. I wouldn't have children with someone I wasn't married to.

      [–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      No, I don't think so. Here's the thing, you only have control over what you do.

      So, sometimes, in order to get what is important to you, you have to be willing to sacrifice what is less important to you.

      If a man refuses to marry you, you have to choose what is more important, him or marriage. Ultimately no amount of girl game (or withholding girl game) is going to fix that. I had to give up marriage to get what I wanted (the man), and other women would give up the man to get what they wanted (the marriage).

      There are many women in this forum who have both a good man and a marriage. In order to do that they may have had to "next" men who weren't that great, or "next" men that didn't want to get married. However what I believe they all have in common is that they didn't deliberately withhold the parts of themselves that make them "marriage material" until marriage.

      To me dating is the trial run for marriage. When you pick someone you are going to marry, you do that by picking someone who you like being around. You are picking someone to spend the rest of your life with. So, if you want someone to pick you, you show them how awesome life is with you. You don't go in with the mentality of "I will only be awesome if you marry me", because then they have no proof. They have no idea what kind of person you will be once you are married, they only know the kind of person you were when you were dating them. If you are only half-girl-gaming (or whatever) then their image of being married to you is of being married to someone mediocre.

      [–]HobbesTheBrave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free? Because that cow is the best cow ever and can't be replaced, so you don't want to lose it.

      Let me fix that for you. Because if it's too much girly-girly, he's going to get fed up with her.

      I just heard a guy dump an excellent girl. Why did he dump an excellent girl? I'm glad you asked. She wanted to hug him too often. She was easily replaced, but he wasn't.

      You see, if he hasn't got the time to miss her, he isn't going to want more of her.

      [–]DoctorNini 4 points5 points  (5 children)

      Personally, I believe being too "wifey" will ultimately result in getting your heart broken by a man who just wants you because of the convenience. No man will be convinced to start a relationship just because you can run a good household. Mainly because any woman can do this if they truly put the effort in (generalizing a bit of course, but you get my point). No man will fall in love with you JUST because of "wifey"-qualities. But more importantly, in the being of dating, a man should be showing YOU he is worthy of your time, NOT the other way around.

      When I met my fiancé, he wasn't attracted to me because I'm a good cook or I can keep my home clean. He thought I was hot, and wanted to take me out on a date. When we did go out on a date, he started to respect me. His actual quote on this: "I realized you were so much more than many other women I've met when you talked about your opinion on the Palestina/Israel-conflict". Now, I'm not saying you should talk politics with every man you meet, and I don't think that's the reason he found this attractive. He found it attractive because I am passionate about politics, put time and effort into forming an opinion and didn't hesitate to give my opinion when asked.

      After this, we went on a second date, and HE cooked for ME. Afterwards I started helping him cleaning up without being asked, and he showed he appreciated this a lot. I did not however, immediately offer to cook for him the next time. He was trying to woo me, and I let him take this role while I was still vetting.

      On our third date, he organized a whole evening with things I had randomly mentioned to love in previous conversations. He had planned everything to a detail, provided me with flowers, and was a gentleman. This is the moment that I realised he was truly LTR-material, and so our fourth date was organized by me. I in turn planned a whole day with things I knew he liked, and I still remember the joy in his eyes that day.

      Only AFTER we had truly commited to each other in the sense of an LTR (including him telling all his friends and family how serious he was about me), did I start cooking for him and showing my more "wifey"-side. Although I know the fact that I would make a good wife is reason for him to want to start a family with me, it is not a part of the reason why he wants to be with me.

      Of course these are a lot of personal examples, but I am trying to paint a picture here from my own experience. In my opinion, you should try to make the best out of yourself, just like the guys at TRP do. When you are at your best point, realise that you are a price that men should be able to put in an effort for (this is an important part of your vetting progress!). And only AFTER he has shown that he is worthy of your time, energy and most importantly love, you should show him that you are not only worthy of being a girlfriend, but also worthy of being a wife. But before you get to that point, he should have shown he is worthy of being married to.

      Sidenote: a lot of these things are mentioned in the book "Why Men Love Bitches". I took a lot of advise from that book, and it has changed my personal life from dating douchebags who were not worth my time, to being engaged to the love of my life. I would recommend it to anyone on this subreddit.

      [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Your relationship sounds so lovely! And really exemplifies one of the posts above from /u/Shaela90 in that you showed yourself first to be an attractive woman, then an interesting person....THEN a good potential future mate

      [–]TheBunk_TB 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      A woman's "passion" does help, (minus obsessions). Value helps too.

      [–]DoctorNini 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      That is not the point I am trying to make. In the beginning, you shouldn't be actively trying to prove your value, you should be deciding what his is. Your value should stand on its own because you care enough about yourself to take good care of you. You shouldn't have to put in extra effort to show this to a man you barely know.

      [–]Shaela90 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes yes and yes! Since when knowing your worth and expecting to be courted equals entitlement? If a guy isn't even that much into you to take an active interest in wooing you as best he can, I don't want to know how's he going to stick around for better or worse.

      [–]TheBunk_TB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I might have mistyped that. I didn't really disagree with the post. My only beef is that many men are learning that there is power in "no". You might have to sell the idea of a relationship with you. Being too wifey? Yeah, I knew the type.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      In today's society the lines have blurred so the two can almost seemingly cannot be separated. Not everyone gets married anymore and many live together before marriage anyway. I think this question more means what do you do early on in the relationship and what do you save for the LTR.

      That is up to the individual and the relationship. If you do too much too early it can come across as domineering or mothering or the guy will think he has to put forth less effort.

      Back in the day the things you held back we're your guy benefitting from your domestic skills and sex. But nowadays those things are who longer held back, this creating this dilemma of "why won't he commit?"

      [–]crownoffeathers 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      What can you hold back besides sex and domestic skills? Time. Time is valuable. An American cubicle worker might only get two weeks vacation per year.

      The more time you spend with a man supporting him, the less time you have to develop yourself and further your personal goals.

      [–]tempintheeastbayEndorsed Contributor 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      ^ this. This is the biggest diff between a GF and a wife. No one is advocating that you act like a different person when dating, just that your BF be a smaller component of your life than a husband would be.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is such a great point!

      [–]Willow-girl 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      This has been a really interesting thread! Y'know years ago I met a guy who really wanted to date me, but I just wasn't all that into him. I did nothing, literally NOTHING, for him, but that didn't deter him at all. As I continued to express disinterest, he kept ramping up his efforts! I finally had to break things off entirely because I've never been the kind of woman who enjoys using men and I could see the relationship wasn't going anywhere. So I think it's possible that a guy is either into you or he's not, and that what you do for him isn't really a huge factor in the equation.

      Housecleaning, laundry and ordinary cooking are not skills that are highly valued in our society, so I guess it's not surprising that men are not going to put a premium on these services. If a relationship has progressed to the point where a guy is visiting your home/apartment, he can see whether you're tidy and good at decorating and making a pleasant environment. No need to makeover his bachelor pad unless you're moving in with him!

      [–]TheBunk_TB 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Housecleaning, laundry and ordinary cooking are not skills that are highly valued in our society

      With enough money, these can be legally paid for. I wish women knew this. Being caring, pretty, and fun are usually worth more. (At least for most guys past age 19).

      [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      For me I do slip into wifey mode maybe towards the end of one year of dating, but my boundary is not cohabiting. For me the adage "why buy the cow if you're getting the milk for free" is a big one.

      Things like caring for him when he's sick, occasionally doing his laundry when he's too busy, cooking for him, all happen after the honeymoon period has worn off.

      [–]sekoiasan 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      By wifey mode, do you mean cooking for him, cleaning his home when you visit, doing his laundry etc? Somehow, I find cooking a very natural part of dating, and I'd probably already do it on the 3rd date or something.

      I find that personality, flexibility and approach to life are very important characteristics in a man being enamored with a woman.

      It's interesting and refreshing to see this mentioned as things men look for in women. Sometimes on TRP and RPW, it can seem too repetitive and generic at times, where you don't see any uniqueness and individualism in the advice. Like we're a factory for identical, feminine creatures. Sort of rules out "true love", "romance" and "soul mates".

      [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      By wifey mode, do you mean cooking for him, cleaning his home when you visit, doing his laundry etc? Somehow, I find cooking a very natural part of dating, and I'd probably already do it on the 3rd date or something.

      Wifey mode as a girlfriend, I would never clean his home for him if I wasn't his wife. The only cleaning I would do is clean up the kitchen if I cooked for him, doing his laundry if he was too busy and iron his clothes (which he can't do regardless of being busy or not). But no, I would never clean his home as a girlfriend.

      [–]kekerae 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I have done some light cleaning in a boyfriends home at the beginning of a relationship. I came over in the evening and definitely helped contribute to the mess in the kitchen and the bed. He worked really early in the morning and told me to please stay and sleep in. When I got up I started the dishwasher and stripped the sheets and tossed them in the washing machine. I got a call the minute he got home from work thanking me, telling me it wasn't necessary, but that it was nice to come home to.

      [–]vanBeethovenLudwigEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I think emptying the dishwasher and washing the sheets is fine too, I also do the same. I guess I was thinking cleaning like mopping the whole apartment and scrubbing the shower and toilet and dusting every single corner type of cleaning. I make my boyfriend's bed whenever I sleep over and fold his clothes and push in the dining chairs and fluff the couch pillows to tidy things up.

      [–]azngirl7689 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah been there done that- guess how cohabitation worked for me and my ex?

      [–]azngirl7689 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Girlfriends shouldn't have kids with their boyfriends. Wives however can have kids with their husbands. As a girlfriend, you are much freer than if you're a wife. Do that OT (within reason), go on that girls trip (within reason). No man gets wife devotion from me without a ring on it.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      [–]fairydust91[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I never thought about it like that but I am starting to agree with you that women's suffrage maaaay have given us the short end of the stick here..I mean it started off great but the truth is, we really do need them more than they need us. And this is coming from someone who considered herself a feminist until not long ago....