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RELATIONSHIPSProjecting (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor

People project their own needs and wants onto others. We're all guilty of doing this. It's no different with regards to love, romance and sexuality.

Men love kindness. They want to be generous, caring and selfless. A man will gladly work to the bone to provide for his family. Most of what men do goes unnoticed. Most men go unnoticed. There's nothing that a man wants more than a woman who's kind to him.

This is why men try to be the nice guy. Because if you - the woman - are nice to him, you'll win him over. If you remain nice to him, you'll keep him. He assumes you want the same, so he tries to be nice.

But women find kindness to be boring. There's no excitement in being kind and gentle. Women want to be dominated and put in their place. A woman will stir up drama, nag, criticize, complain, bitch, scream and yell. She may not realize she's doing it, but she's testing him. It's a shit test.

It seems like almost every ex boyfriend was abusive. What attracts so many women to abusive men? Exactly! Because his uncaring behavior, his putting her in her place and his dominance give her the tingles. It's fun until it's not and that's when the guy is graduated from fun BF to abusive ex BF. (Of course, there are real cases of abuse which I'm not covering here).

In essence, with the shit test, a woman is treating her man the way she wishes to be treated - with a strong arm. Problem is that this is exhausting for men and eventually turns men off.

We all project what we really want. What do you really want? Do you want him to be kind to you and treat you well? How will you treat him?

Cheers!


[–]Atomicbebe 28 points29 points  (24 children)

The women I know with abusive men are damaged with low self esteem, women don't like abusive men. I barely know any women who are with abusive men. The problem with nice guys is that they aren't nice, almost always have no personality or hobbies, don't have their own values and are clingy and manipulative. They have no backbone. You can google it and there are probably plenty of threads on Reddit about "nice guys" not being nice. I feel red pill has had some good advice for nice guys like get some hobbies, have your own life etc. what I feel is important for nice guys is to determine your own values and stick to them, it shows character.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (15 children)

Totally agree. Most Nice GuysTM are just beta assholes pretending to be nice. They are jerks who have no interest in you but just want to bang, but they don't have the balls to just try and enter a sexual relationship with you. Instead they fake being interested in you as a whole person, they try and manipulate and scheme there way into your pants.

Totally agree that RP has good advice for helping these guys get out of that mindset.

[–]TheSelfGoverned 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Most Nice GuysTM are just beta assholes pretending to be nice. They are jerks who have no interest in you but just want to bang, but they don't have the balls to just try and enter a sexual relationship with you.

You're just turned off (digusted) by their lack of male aggression.

They're trying to establish a relationship with you and treat you like a human being -not a piece of meat- and you're offended by it. Not a good strategy if you're looking for a LTR, TBH.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I have plenty of actually kind male friendships. The whole thing about Nice Guys is that they lie about what they want. They pretend they want a friendship, but in reality, they want to sleep with me. If you want a romantic relationship with me, ask. If you want a one night stand, ask (the answer will be no in my case but at least you know). But if you want one of these things, don't pretend to be a platonic friend only to get mad when I tell you I am seeing a new guy.

[–]the_fat_whisperer 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Playing devil's advocate here, my thought is that nice guys aren't intentionally this way. It is born out of being generally unattractive and uninteresting. A nice guy sees an attractive guy ask a girl out and even if he is rejected, the person he asked is at least a little flattered by it in his eyes. If he were to do the same, he would be rejected and possibly labeled a creep which further alienates him socially. He feels as though his only option is to develop a friendship first that hopefully, somehow, leads to a romantic or intimate relationship. Its dumb, but this may be the cause more than anything else.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Everyone has a choice on how they act. Everyone has the option to be honest or to lie.

I see how they believe lying is in their best interest and feel badly for them, but it is still frustrating.

[–]the_fat_whisperer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

right, what I am saying is they don't see it as a lie because they don't really understand how to organically initiate a romantic relationship. I'm not saying insincerity isn't involved, but it comes from a place of complete misunderstanding of how the world works around them. I'm not really sure if there is a female equivalent to compare it to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Probably the women who say "I'm not like other girls". They think that by acting into this masculine role they'll get more guys

[–]the_fat_whisperer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I've sort of known girls like that. They say they don't have friends who are girls because they prefer the company of guys and hate drama. I'm not saying someone can't genuinely be like this, but often I've found that they just prefer the company of someone who thinks they can do no wrong because they want to hook-up rather than provide a meaningful friendship.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Wait, what?

Nice Guys are usually the opposite. They pedestalize the shit out of women. That's why oneitis is such a problem--they are genuinely emotionally attached to their crushes.

On the other hand, the Red Pill subreddit has tons of posts that are about ways to maximize the number of women you can sleep with, including straight-out lying to them and telling them what they want to hear. I don't think that's representative of the majority of redpillers, but there's certainly quite a few people who do that kind of shit. Sounds like you have it backwards to me.

Edit: https://therationalmale.com/2012/09/04/play-nice/ This might be useful

[–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Nice guy oneitis from a girls side often looks like stalking and being creepy and needy. It's really horrible to deal with and not nice at all. Red pill often has advice that goes the full opposite. But some of the red pill is good because it encourages guys to get hobbies and interests and be busy and be more balanced.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I totally agree with you, it's just that I disagree with the assumption that there's malicious, jerk like intent behind those actions.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It is my opinion that the Nice GuysTM are just trying a different manipulation tactic to get women to sleep with them. No man who is legitimately nice has ever called himself a nice guy. There is a subreddit called Nice guys that is full of examples lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Most nice guys don't actually call themselves nice guys, in the same way that most alphas don't call themselves alphas and jerks don't call themselves jerks. And you're free to have your opinion, I'm just stating what I've myself experienced and observed from people around me

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most nice guys don't actually call themselves nice guys

Exactly my point! :) Guys who call themselves nice guys are usually manipulative jerks

most alphas don't call themselves alphas

So freaking true! I notice that most guys who call themselves alpha are just beta's who try too hard.

[–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah which is why it's good for guys and girls to find out what the other likes because we are different.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Precisely

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

They have no backbone

This is the point, regardless of the guy being genuinely nice or not, not having a backbone and being nice where he shouldn't be will cause him to be flushed down the toilet.

[–]Atomicbebe 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There have been moments when I realized a guy was lying to me to tell me what he thinks I want to hear or is just so agreeable it's suffocating, I instantly think of him as weak and attraction is gone. A guy who holds to an opinion because that is a how his values align I can respect (as long as it's not too crazy).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Atomicbebe 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Google "nice guys aren't nice" these are the kind of nice guys we are talking about. They think all women like abusive men and don't appreciate them. It's the classic nice guy speech. Guys who claim to be nice guys are usually not nice. The guy that are nice don't advertise that they are nice and are just genuine normal people.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      "Nice guys" are just misusing the word nice as a manipulative description. Most normal people are nice. People should always be nice. But men who are interesting are men with their own lives and hobbies and opinions. I think some of the problem with nice guys is that they try to morph into what they think you want them to be. And when it is clingy and obviously not genuine it doesn't come across well. Do you have your own personality if you just agree with everything to be nice? It looks weak. (It's also lying about yourself)

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      ah okay I now get what she meant

      [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (8 children)

      I'd rather have a guy who is kind, interesting, and funny outside of the bedroom and dominant inside.

      I think a lot of men forget that you can be dominant and kind. Being dominant is not the same as being demeaning, angry, or cruel. If your dominance can be mistaken for abuse, then you aren't actually an alpha guy. You're a beta trying to project alpha and don't really know what is.

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

      I'd rather have a guy who is kind, interesting, and funny outside of the bedroom and dominant inside.

      Ahh. The female desire to have two opposites at the same time...

      Most people aren't like that. Some are, but most aren't.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I'm very submissive in the bedroom, but not at all submissive out of it. I find it is pretty common among my IRL friends.

      [–]Jikira 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Ehhh. This comment makes you sound like you talking down on her for having the desire to have a good captain(which is the point of this entire subreddit). This is exactly what I would want in a guy and it is not asking for something to unreasonable. In addition, being nice doesn't mean you need to be a pushover and vice versa. If you want to complain about female desire to have a good man in her life go to r/TheRedPill .

      [–]mannfan9292 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Someone can be kind and dominant at the same time, right? Like, motivating the woman to do what's best for herself?

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      Kind and dominant are opposite character traits. Each person has a different balance of character traits, that's what depreciates our personalities from one another. That's why it's difficult to find a single person who excels in two opposite traits simultaneously.

      [–]Atomicbebe 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Kind and dominant aren't opposite. If you think being dominant means being unkind you must have a terrible marriage. You are unkind to your wife?

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      I didn't say they were opposites, I said they were opposite character traits.

      A person with a hot character temperament still has cold character traits, it's just a matter of what's dominant and what's passive.

      That's why I said that it's difficult to find a person who excels in two opposite character traits simultaneously. This means that it's possible to excel in both but not probable

      So to conclude that being dominant means being unkind is either putting words in my mouth or displays a lack of reading comprehension skills.

      [–]Atomicbebe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Being kind is part of your value system and nothing to do with dominance.

      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      This is so true and I wish I had knew this years ago.

      Every couple should at least make the Love languages test and share their results to their partners so they can understand each other.

      [–]Willow-girl 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      But women find kindness to be boring. There's no excitement in being kind and gentle. Women want to be dominated and put in their place. A woman will stir up drama, nag, criticize, complain, bitch, scream and yell.

      No, no and no. I love my kind, funny guy to the moon and back. I have no desire to 'be dominated' (whatever the heck that means!). And no interest in stirring up drama for drama's sake.

      [–]TheLilHipster 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      We all project what we really want. What do you really want? Do you want him to be kind to you and treat you well? How will you treat him?

      Is it fair to embody this with a song?

      [–]lidlredridinghood 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      This is why rp makes so much sense to me. I branch swung, completely confused. When i was introduced to rp, all of a sudden it was like, "oh.... that makes sense. Um.... why didn't i see that before?"

      [–]YeOldeDog 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      I dont think 'women find kindness boring', its almost like saying 'women find cruelty interesting'. Sure, almost universally women find a man who is constantly 'kind and agreeable' as dull as dishwater, even if she is grateful for his presence for other reasons. I think individual men are more accepting of a 'kind and agreeable' woman, but thats hardly surprising because part of machismo is that some men are driven to fill dominant roles and define others roles to shape their self worth.

      But what I see, as an old fart, is that older role of men as 'relationship leader' seems to have shifted significantly and modern men are more interested in free agent partners. That has, I think, not sat well for a section of younger women still in a more traditional mindset of deriving satisfaction and validation from being chased and inviting said chase to those they wished to be chased by.

      [–]cuspids 4 points5 points  (24 children)

      Can I please ask this, but do men really want a kind woman? I ask because I've seen so many men chase after a bitchy woman who ignores him. Then why??

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      I think men and women both like to have what they can't. I think that is where the myth of women liking mean men comes from. I see the same thing in guys chasing bitchy women a lot, so I'm not sure why its not a stereotype too.

      [–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I saw a book on Amazon, I didn't read it but read some reviews. It was called why men love bitches. When I read the reviews it looked like it was talking about not being needy and a doormat. Kind of have your own interests and personality type thing.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yep! But for some reason, RP doesn't like to talk about it

      [–]Atomicbebe 3 points4 points  (16 children)

      The book "The Rules" is good for explaining why playing hard to get works and that men like the chase. It also may help "nice girls." Neither male or female is attracted to overly needy people, so girls who are bitchy are not being needy. It doesn't mean we should be bitchy but that we should be busy with other things in our lives. For myself I like to try to make men chase a bit, makes me feel feminine and turned on.

      [–]cuspids 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Makes sense, I've always noticed I'm the most attractive to men when I'm busy with my own life.

      [–]YeOldeDog 4 points5 points  (14 children)

      Men do not like the chase, they never did, not ever. If you could talk to a tiger, tell it that it enjoyed the chase of the prey it failed to catch, it would like as not turn and bite your head off.

      Of course you could talk about it in broader terms, of a completed chase-to-sex scenario, where the reward of sex feels greater for the man due to the effort invested in obtaining it. But, there is a flaw in this thinking as well: If the man does not ultimately enjoy the sex his attitude to the chase is even more poisoned than if he failed to share sex with her at all.

      [–]cuspids 5 points6 points  (11 children)

      I think men like earning things though. Men like challenges. It's only if the reward wasn't so great then the chase wasn't worth it.

      [–]Atomicbebe 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Women like the romance, a bit of flirting, some chasing, it's part of how we become attracted and get turned on. It's how you get to know if the person is a match.

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Women like the romance, a bit of flirting, some chasing, it's part of how we become attracted and get turned on. It's how you get to know if the person is a match.

      Problem is when he still needs to chase you long after you know it's a match. If you require being chased endlessly, he'll burn out sooner or later.

      [–]YeOldeDog 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Sure, but I think that applies to a cross section of men who are commonly successful in chasing, or players invested in 'the game' of serial chasing more than an individual woman they chase. Those are small cross sections of men... fine for f'ing or the excitement of a drama bomb relationship, I guess, but the odds of a stable LTR with such men, I would think, are on the outer.

      [–]Atomicbebe 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      You're not really understanding what we are talking about. You are thinking of someone you chased but didn't get. I'm talking about flirting, waiting, being busy, some romance, flirting etc. see what is being reciprocated. So being cool, some mystery, revealing yourself slower not overdoing it. Don't be clingy or desperate and tell your life story on the first date. You are also thinking of chasing someone to get sex. We are talking about vetting someone for a Ltr. Given that women are attracted by flirting and romance it's lazy for men to not bother.

      [–]YeOldeDog 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      You said 'the chase', thats what I replied about. Sounds like what your talking about is more 'the dance'. Sure, men can like that because if sex is not the payoff (the journey is the reward) then they can enjoy the dance. But, having done this myself many years back, women can seem mighty confused when it does not proceed to sex because they expect it too.

      [–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I guess there are some men that don't like chasing, there are probably women who don't like maintaining their looks. I just think that for attraction men like women who look good, women like men that make them feel desired. If you have sex it probably works out better for both people if men make the effort to get women turned on. I think in a positive relationship this would happen. I like how you have called it a dance, both should be dancing, if one is dancing and the other not, that is when you don't chase any more. This is probably the part guys don't like, when they realize the other person isn't dancing.

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I think men like earning things though. Men like challenges. It's only if the reward wasn't so great then the chase wasn't worth it.

      You're mistaken.

      Men like earning things outside the home. Inside the home is where men want to kick back, relax and enjoy the fruits of their labor without the need to earn things. This includes sex.

      [–]Atomicbebe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It's true that a lot of men think they should get sex without putting any effort in. Good luck to them.

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If you have to earn sex, then it's a transaction.

      Look, I'm not saying that it's practical to just expect sex on demand without effort, I'm saying that this is what men desire.

      Additionally, men do put in plenty of effort, we work hard to bring in enough money to feed the family, we fix things, kill spiders and do many other things to better the lives of our wives and children. Does that count for nothing?

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Men do not like the chase, they never did, not ever. If you could talk to a tiger, tell it that it enjoyed the chase of the prey it failed to catch, it would like as not turn and bite your head off.

      This is very true. Women love being chased because it gives them an ego boost and a sense of value. Men hate chasing. Men chase out of necessity, not because we enjoy it. (Unless you're one of the few men who loves drama and playing the field). This is why men in LTR's where the sex is steady are generally happy and content. This is why we'll enter the LTR to begin with - to have sex without having to chase.

      [–]Atomicbebe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      There s no good sex for women without a chase or romance or flirting etc. my husband still does romantic things for me all the time. Men who make no effort after marriage are like women who get overweight and don't bother looking nice.

      [–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      Absolutely! Men want a kind woman.

      I ask because I've seen so many men chase after a bitchy woman who ignores him. Then why??

      For sex or for a LTR?

      [–]cuspids 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      For LTR!!!! Tons of men who chase women during an LTR!

      [–]Rivkariver2 Star 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      It's true.