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ADVICEI'm an ugly woman. Im trying my best to look my best as possible but I don't see much difference even when it try. Its making me very depressed and now just wondering how I can cope with my fate as being an unattractive female? (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Bluepreztel

I have given up the hope of finding a boyfriend and lm starting to care less about it. However, I just don't want to be looked at badly on the streets by people or be bullied or disrespected in general by the public and my peers.

I am 23 years old and slim but I look young for my age, maybe about 16 random people usually ask if I'm in school or tell me "is there no school today" on the weekdays. I have small facial features but they don't fit together well and are not symmetric. I have big and thick black eyebrows which I get done regularly. I think its helps a tiny bit and I still don't like them much and wish they were a different shape and length. I feel they overpower my face at times if they get too thick. I have a small/weak chin and jaw, narrowish face shape, pale skin, some acne at times, dark circles, don't have high cheekbones, dry and frizzy dark curly hair that is thick and very hard to manage. I usually have to put it up.

I get mixed reactions on my appearance. I had a small amount of people call me pretty and cute. but I had a lot more people call me ugly. I been told I'm hiding my potential by my cousin and that I had a "pretty face" I just needed to let it out and when she did another hairstyle on me she was like "see" I still think I looked disgusting.

I try to straighten my hair or control my curls, do my eyebrows, put on some makeup, and dress ok. I do get treated a little better but I still encounter people who look at me weird and still rude to me. I still have guys out on the street give me dirty looks and act hostile to me. Girls can be a bit friendlier or meaner depending. It really just hurts me. I wish I could not care how people react to my face. But I cant help it. Every bad look and treatment I get chips at my self esteem and pushes me to stay at home more and go out less.

I hate being an undesirable female to my very core and there is not much I can do. I just feel like a laughing stock when I go outside. I have to wear sunglasses and a hat to cover myself so I can avoid any potential bad stares or name calling. I don't have money for plastic surgery, I would love to have. Do you have any tips on how to stay strong and cope as an unattractive female? how to not let the discrimination and the harsher side of this life get to me?

Do you think if I just expose myself more to it, I get used to it and less hurt?


[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child)

No one should be asking the OP for a picture. This would be doxxing herself and is not allowed.

[–]nereprezentativ 71 points72 points  (4 children)

  • You'll find out at 50 that there are no ugly 23 year old women.
  • Hit the gym. The ugliest chick will get male attention if she has a nice posterior.To be a princess you must squat my dear.
  • Find your niche. Preferably one where there is a deficit of women (ex: sports). You can be a below average duckling at the local coffee shop or the cutie pie at the climbing gym/fishing area/race track/metal workshop.
  • Find a style. Regular basic-biatch dress code gets you compared to all the others and you say you don't come on top of the pecking order. Then go otaku, go hipsterish etc. Something just a bit different but FEMININE. Always have nice socks. Dresses whenever possible.
  • Learn to cook. Learn to sew. Be decent at feminine things.
  • Be pleasant to be around. Not a pushover, but pleasant.
  • As for hairstyles, try more of them. How can a hairstyle be disgusting ?! It's all in your head.
  • Give men multiple chances. A man with a similar mindset as yours will be just as (if not more) reluctant to put himself on the spot and try to get your attention.
  • Women will be mean to you whatever your looks. Is how females are, yourself included.
  • Get dancing lessons to get used to being handled by men if you find yourself not at ease with it.

edited for clarity

[–]Ascension_McDade 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Find a style. Regular basic-biatch dress code gets you compared to all the others and you say you don't come on top of the pecking order. Then go otaku, go hipsterish etc. Something a bit different but FEMININE. Always have nice socks. Dresses whenever possible.

Noooooooooooo. No no no no no no no no, what's gonna help her the most is emulating the hot girls.

[–]OhIMeMine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Eh, idk about that. Which other girls? We don't all dress the same. I dress nice, my mom dresses nice, my roommate dresses nice, but our styles are not the same at all.

[–]nereprezentativ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've edited it for clarity. Thanks.

[–]George_Rockwell 55 points56 points  (16 children)

I am 23 years old and slim but I look young for my age, maybe about 16

If your body is good, it shouldn't matter how bad your face is fucked (which I doubt it is that bad). You're putting effort into it and that kind of stuff shows.

If all of the above is true, the rest of your post is all in your head

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I agree. When you look at the wives of famous/powerful men, many of them are not traditionally “pretty,” but they all are thin/fit and look nice and put together at all times. And I’m sure they all probably have very lovely personalities to boot, which makes them more beautiful!

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        [–]George_Rockwell 0 points1 point  (7 children)

        I should've specified that an LTR would've been fine with these women. It didn't work out for other reasons.

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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          [–]George_Rockwell 0 points1 point  (5 children)

          and has the experience to back it up.

          Almost everything in her post is a mental block, with very little "hard evidence". I'm telling you: If everything else is perfect, an ugly face isn't going to keep you from getting a good man. I've been in LTRs with such women.

          You don't have to take my advice, but if you're going to take her experience and neglect mine (I'm providing actual hard evidence in my life), then go ahead and enjoy the echo chamber.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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            [–]George_Rockwell 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            Having a 9/10 body fixes a 4/10 face.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

              u/sleepingsoft is correct that "being fucked" is not what the women here are looking for. If you do not understand that very simple fact, you should not be participating on the sub.

              [–]George_Rockwell -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

              An LTR would've been perfectly fine with these women, but it didn't work out for various other reasons. I suppose I should've clarified that.

              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

              Yes, you should have. You also should not be using the same tone as you would use in TRP. You are speaking to a sub full of women. "Uggos" and "fucked" set you apart as someone who doesn't understand how to speak to women. If you want to be taken seriously here, update your language so that it is appropriate for the setting going forward.

              [–]NewMindRedPill1 Star 27 points28 points  (3 children)

              For some encouragment you should google, "no one is ugly, just broke."

              It often isn't about what youre born with but what you do with it. I used to be pretty ugly as a kid and I look a lot better now and get loads of attention from men but I had to put a lot of work into it.

              [–]Rivkariver2 Star 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              What kind of work in particular?

              [–]NewMindRedPill1 Star 23 points24 points  (1 child)

              In no particular order:

              • lost weight

              -toned up

              -grew hair long

              maintain hair (oils, only washing once a week, careful about ingredients, etc.)

              -Applied oils/formulas to help grow my lashes longer & eyebrows thicker

              -Used candy lipz to subtly plump up my lips

              -practiced face yoga to help define my face and sharpen my jaw

              -practiced a good skin care

              -maintained nails

              -dramatically increased vitamins (through whole foods and supplements)

              -ate more alkaline diet

              -trying to avoid sugar

              etc.

              [–]thatbadlarry 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Face yoga? I’d love to hear more about this!

              [–]Captainsgirl 17 points18 points  (0 children)

              Firsf of all (but not most importantly) your looks. So I would recommend you go to a dermatologist. I was lucky in my teens; my mom was a secretary for a dermatologist and got me in to see him for free. I am NOT saying this is true for anyone but me, but he taught me to use a very mild cleanser (Cetaphil) and just be very....eh....not use a lot of stuff on my skin other than an extremely mild moisturiser/sun screen. I'm in my late 30's now and haven't had any problem with my skin since I was about 14. People have different needs, so my recommendation would be to see a determitologist to see what might work for you.

              I would also recommend going to a hair stylist for your hair. I have the EXACT opposite hair as you (mine is baby thin, which is also no picnic; my hair will NOT keep a curl and almost always looks flat) but a real hair stylist may be able to help you.

              Finally, hey babe, your face is your face. A lot of people may tell you how to "contour" it or whatever. Cool. I mean, do it if you want. My feeling was always more "I'd rather you know what I basically look like now, sooo"

              I have super high cheekbones and a pointy chin. I also have big eyes and full lips. I'm still not "traditionally pretty" Oh well. I laugh a lot and smile at everyone I encounter. I make dumb jokes that sometimes fail. I treat people like they are significant. I recommend this.

              [–]chief-w 55 points56 points  (3 children)

              idk if you are compliment fishing or looking for validation, or relationship advice. I, as a man, am going to give you some advice about what we will look for in a serious relationship that you seem to be lacking in spades.

              I'll start with what I think you need and then go into why a little.

              You need a purpose in life that is bigger and more important than your eyebrows. You need a passion that gets you up, motivates you to manage your image and keep trying to do what you can but ignore what you can't do anything about because you have things to do people to meet and relationships to invest in. You need to pursue the completion of the purpose of your life. I don't know or care if it's music, art, humanitarian work, administrative work, public relations, teaching, fixing things, fixing people, you need something that gets you exited about every day so that you aren't hiding in your room from yourself.

              1. stop asking your girlfriends if you are ugly

              2. stop asking guys if you are ugly

              3.no asking the internet if you are ugly without pictures (both raw/natural and done up)

              1. focus on what you have. A "butt'erface" (short for everything is pretty "but 'er face") can still get a guy if she knows how to not be "in your face about it" (pun intended, sry I love puns) but also not catfish it either.

              Now to why... You seem to be a relatively healthy person. You describe yourself as young, thin, and very youthful in appearance. Congratulations you are the envy of half the women on this board for one or more of those traits. You also describe yourself as having bushy eye brows that are "the wrong shape." But also talk about how you are managing it, getting it done regularly, and allude to having hair and face professionally done on a recurring basis. So unless you are a candidate for major reconstructive plastic surgery, I guarantee you aren't as physically ugly as you say you are.

              That leaves your stinking attitude as the potential culprit for your relationship problems. Your attitude about yourself is toxic and needs to be rooted out with extreme prejudice. You are insecure about your looks. No typical man will expect a 10 in looks from a woman. The only men who do work at their looks and have actually who have been told they are perfect 10's by other women and expect reciprocity from their partners.

              [–]Ok_Philosopher 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              I'd upvote this five times if I could. The intensity with which the OP is describing her perceived flaws makes me wonder if this isn't just a giant bundle of insecurity. My guess is the OP could do all of the practical beauty regimes described by the women herein and it wouldn't make a dent on her self-esteem. To change that, to genuinely feel better about herself, then I think /u/chief-w's advice is spot on: find a purpose larger than herself. At the very least, start admiring the physical things about herself that she does like.

              The poster who said there's no ugly 23-year-olds when 50 is quite true. I'm a few decades shy of that but I went through my college years thinking I was pretty mediocre in the looks department. I look at pics of myself and I find I underestimated myself considerably, to my detriment at times--not just in looks but in many other ways. And I'm sure that I in my 50s will look back and say the same thing about my 30-year-old self that would lament over fine lines and incoming gray hairs.

              I hope the OP doesn't waste her 20s not taking full advantage of these great years filled with fun and possibility. I guess there's a reason it's said "youth is wasted on the young."

              [–]throwawayindisbelief 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              You seem to be a relatively healthy person. You describe yourself as young, thin, and very youthful in appearance. Congratulations you are the envy of half the women on this board for one or more of those traits.

              Only recently did I realize that there's actually a dark side to looking "youthful". The OP alludes to this, too. See, I spent most of my adult life (before age 35) looking like an overgrown child (with the "underweight" BMI to match). Reason: I was the obedient child of an immigrant mother who was sabotaging me by forcing me to stay in a childlike state so that men wouldn't be interested in me. And it worked. In my 20's I got hit on maybe once a year. And I didn't realize all this until I moved out in my 30's, grew my hair long, and started getting hit on. My first boyfriend explained this by saying, "yeah, it's because you look more mature." What he meant (because his English is his second language) was that I looked like a woman that a man would want to sleep with, not a child that isn't allowed to go out at night.

              You're right though - OP's looks are only one piece of the puzzle, just as my sabotaged looks were only one piece of my larger puzzle of problems.

              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              Your gender is irrelevant. Make your point without it.

              [–]Amonette2012 11 points12 points  (0 children)

              The ugliest woman I ever met was 6 ft 4, had a full beard and was shaped like a sofa. She was one of the sweetest and most beautiful souls I've ever known and was also happily married. If it can happen for her it can happen for anyone, as long as they're sweet, kind and patient.

              Learn to love yourself. Not your face, but your you. Looks fade anyway, so work on your personality and keep your figure. People telling you that you're ugly are just being assholes - true beauty has nothing to do with looks.

              [–]Maschalismos 12 points13 points  (2 children)

              Hey. MRA dude here. My little sister is close to your age, and Ill tell you what I told her.

              1). Most men actually know that looks aren't everything. If you strive to be a good partner, you'll attract a good partner.

              2). Almost no-one is as ugly as they think they are. I'd bet, based on your description, that your face might just be a little quirky, and not NEARLY as bad as you think!

              3). You may have to look for a non-chad person. This is not a bad thing. There are plenty of bottom-80% men who would likely adore you if you paid them some attention.

              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              Your gender is irrelevant. Make your point without it.

              [–]fistloopy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Confidence changes the game. Some perfect girls lack confidence and instead of being perceived as 9s they are perceived as 8s. Confidence comes largely with body-consciousness which is obtained through sports, dancing, yoga and meditation.

              [–]yamfood 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Put an add on a dating website and see how many messages you get. There are plenty of men out there who would date you, but if you want to win at that game you need to get your self-esteem right.

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Confidence is key. However, it seems like you're a little down about your physical so here's a little help:

              A keratin treatment can help with your hair.The acne/dark circles can be fixed with a better diet (i.e less sugar, more water) and skin products. Vitamin C is really helpful for dark circles, if you need more advice go to r/SkincareAddiction it's like the gold mine of skincare advice.Get tanning lotion, I know many girls who use it. However, DON'T tan with tanning beds/the sun, it's really bad for your skin and can age you drastically.

              Also, if people are calling you pretty and cute, even if it's a small amount, then you're not a lost cause. Keep pushing forward because giving up isn't going to bring you where you want to be.

              [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

              It kind of sounds like you have body dysphoria. Have you ever thought about talking to a counselor or a therapist about your issues?

              I am sure you are not actually ugly. 80% of what you wrote is just you focusing on the negative, physical aspects of yourself. It’s 2018 there are plenty of ways to enhance your looks and you don’t need surgery.. look up MUA’s (makeup artists) on Youtube and practice applying makeup to your face in your spare time. Do you work? You can put away extra money for decent makeup to use. I know there are cheaper makeup brands out there, but I prefer heading to Sephora and spending my money there. The employees at Sephora will help you find a foundation and concealer that matches your skin tone, but there are so many “try me!” things you could just experiment and test things out on your own.

              I have acne and how I deal with it is by scrubbing the crap out of my skin (this is called exfoliating) every other day, applying a toner afterwards (but be warned this BURNS), and then adding a moisturizer. This reduces it for me but it doesn’t completely get rid of it (I think it is just my skin type). Sometimes acne cannot be helped if you have lots of stress affecting you. I still have some but I do not let it hold me back, I go out and look pretty, smile, you can do the same. If your hair is frizzy, I suggest using sulfate free shampoo and conditioner. I use ion anti-frizz (brown bottle) shampoo and ion moisture locking conditioner. Get a deep conditioning mask for your hair, also. Towel dry your hair, apply to your ends liberally, wait 5-10 minutes if your hair is very dry, then rinse. It’ll help your hair immensely. Brush your hair while you are in the shower when the conditioner is in it, as the conditioner should help with untangling.

              Really all you have to do is make sure you are maintaining yourself at home. If you want to work on your body, up the protein in your diet and start lifting weights and doing squats. Go running, running is very good for your tummy. You said you are slim, you may not have to work on much but it is up to you. Looking good takes a bit of work. Beauty is pain, pain is beauty. Instead of coping with your fate (a bit dramatic don’t you think?) just take care of yourself and try harder at makeup, skincare, and hair care. There are even vitamins and supplements you can take to boost your skin, hair/fingernail, and overall health.

              [–]Rivkariver2 Star 12 points13 points  (1 child)

              You know yourself better than I do, but for many people harsh exfoliation makes facial acne worse in a cycle of skin producing excess oil to make up for dryness. Burning doesn’t mean it’s working always. /r/SkincareAddiction sidebar talks about chemical exfoliants.

              If you already know all this and it works for you cool; just a PSA.

              [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

              I realize, I am just trying to do what asian women do to get that kind of skin they have. They exfoliate a lot. My mom said I have skin like hers, and she used noxzema as a cleanser and men’s aftershave as a toner. I’ll try anything. All the commercial skincare products have never worked for me and it is frustrating.

              [–]dashdotdott 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I'd add that r/curlyhair is a good resource to help with your hair if you've got curly hair (for those that don't r/haircarescience).

              Therapy is a good idea. As u/chief-w pointed out, you are focusing on your looks too much. Potentially to the point that you're turning off potential friends/SOs.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 3 points4 points  (7 children)

              I still encounter people who look at me weird and still rude to me. I still have guys out on the street give me dirty looks and act hostile to me.

              This is what is odd in your post. People - especially men - aren't generally cruel to unattractive people. They save that for fat women (because fat is something you can control). Plain and ugly women tend to fall off the radar, unless the ugly is so bad you're deformed Like, carnival-ugly. So this makes me wonder how much of their attitude/actions is real, and how much is your perception.

              Every bad look and treatment I get chips at my self esteem

              Bad looks and bad treatment can be real or they can be perceived. Was that cashier rude because you're ugly, or because she's having a bad day? Was that driver glaring at your ugliness, or was he mad because you cut him off? I've known people (ex-wife for one) who could see anger/hostility/disrespect in others towards her where it obviously wasn't there - she expected to see it, so it was there. It was pretty much all her perception.

              I hate being an undesirable female to my very core and there is not much I can do. I just feel like a laughing stock when I go outside.

              I get that you've taken this ugly duckling appearance into your core and it's now a big part of your identity. I highly recommend therapy.

              Do you have any tips on how to stay strong and cope as an unattractive female?

              Well, mainly STOP CALLING YOURSELF UNATTRACTIVE. Unattractive is as unattractive does. The word itself means "I don't attract others" - but attraction (as opposed to being pretty) is a matter of attitude as much as it is of pleasing features. I can name plenty of utter bitches who are also hot - they're pretty but they aren't attractive, they're repulsive to be around.

              Similarly, I've had women in my life (dated a few) who were on the low-end of the scale looks-wise but sweet as could be. That made them attractive to me, even if they weren't pretty.

              Now the hard truth. If you think you're unattractive, people will see you that way. If you think you're worth being spat upon, people will spit on you. YOU TRAIN OTHERS ON HOW TO TREAT YOU. You have a big load of hate on for yourself and your looks, and that's encouraging folks to do the same.

              Your feelings about yourself come out in your posture, stance, and actions. If you act like someone unworthy to speak to the attractive normals, they will treat you as unworthy. Fake it until you make it.

              Stop hating on yourself. Get therapy, get your head screwed back on straight. Plenty of men find petite, young-looking ladies attractive. You've had men call you pretty and cute. So talk to THEM. Ignore the haters. Find out what they like about you and emphasize those points. Get advice from friends on how to minimize your plysical flaws.

              And (it bears repeating) get therapy.

              [–]bloobird08 1 point2 points  (6 children)

              I can name plenty of utter bitches who are also hot - they're pretty but they aren't attractive, they're repulsive to be around.

              I don’t mean to be rude, but is it possible these hot women have romantically rejected you or ignored you, so you perceive them as bitches? I’m just asking because I haven’t met many beautiful women who were genuinely awful people. I think women who are less fortunate in the looks department should try to emulate beautiful women, not be bitter towards them and tear them down. I understand you’re trying to make op feel better, but I don’t think spreading a mindset that pretty= bitchy and ugly = joyful is a good idea. If anything, she could benefit from a feminine, kind, beautiful woman taking her under her wing and helping her out.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              I don’t mean to be rude,

              People always say this when they are going to be rude and don't want to be attacked for it, but go on.

              but is it possible these hot women have romantically rejected you or ignored you, so you perceive them as bitches?

              Yeah no. I've never cast my net wide for women (my reasons are irrelevant here, but I don't have a lack of success there) but I've never had to. I'm met objectively pretty women who are heinous to those around them - especially anybody of lower social standing. They're often fine with people at or above their perceived social level - think Mean Girls - but they are brutal to those of lower standing.

              A common misconception in life is that being pretty means being nice, when the two have nothing to do with one another. In fact, often pretty girls AREN'T nice - because they don't have to be. People treat them better by default. They often don't have to develop their personalities because they can skate on looks... at least until they hit the wall. THAT impact is truly gratifying.

              I think women who are less fortunate in the looks department should try to emulate beautiful women, not be bitter towards them and tear them down.

              Beautiful women as a class aren't any nicer than anybody else. They may not have the same internal self-hatred that many fat or ugly women do, but that's not a guarantee. Plenty of pretty women aren't nice - pretty doesn't make you nice, it just removes one reason for being bitter.

              I don’t think spreading a mindset that pretty= bitchy and ugly = joyful is a good idea.

              I don't think that spreading this is healthy, either. That's not what I posted.

              If anything, she could benefit from a feminine, kind, beautiful woman taking her under her wing and helping her out.

              I agree. Whole-heartedly. I don't think you read my post correctly.

              [–]bloobird08 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              They're often fine with people at or above their perceived social level - think Mean Girls - but they are brutal to those of lower standing.

              Ok, I just don’t think these hot, mean girls are as mean to other women as you think. I know it does happen, but I think it is mostly a trope that gets played out in movies and doesn’t happen as much in real life. They might gossip behind people’s backs, but all women do that. I still think men perceive the pretty ones as “bitches” more because of the romantic rejection aspect of it. If you’re a hot chick, you can’t be all buddy buddy with a guy you have no attraction to or he will get the wrong idea, so they ignore/reject these guys, then these guys write them off as bitches - a tale as old as time. I don’t think women are bitches for not wanting to date a man below their league, just as an attractive guy isn’t an asshole for not wanting to date an ugly chick. They are just taking advantage of having a better option - anyone in their position would do the same.

              Also, I never said beautiful women are nicer than ugly women - but plenty beautiful women are nice people and some even like “a makeover project” so they can help an ugly woman have better style. I do think it would benefit op to find such a woman. She would also benefit from “cheerleader effect” when with this woman and might meet a decent guy this way.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              I still think men perceive the pretty ones as “bitches” more because of the romantic rejection aspect of it.

              Nope. I mean, sure, plenty of men are rejected by pretty women all the time. But there are plenty of pretty women who, because of their high SMV, will treat poorly any male of lower SMV, regardless of whether either of them is attracted to the other.

              Ever seen a pretty girl be rude to the waiter? The valet? Busboy? No romance there - but that same girl will be smiles and giggles to the rich businessman. Or at least, polite.

              THAT is the tale as old as time. The higher a woman's SMV is, the more men she isn't interested in and consequently she won't make an effort to be nice to (or, if she's not a nice person, she will actively be rude/mean to).

              THAT is what I'm talking about.

              plenty beautiful women are nice people and some even like “a makeover project” so they can help an ugly woman have better style.

              Condescending to ugly women, but I agree.

              I do think it would benefit op to find such a woman. She would also benefit from “cheerleader effect” when with this woman and might meet a decent guy this way.

              Again, agree. She could use some positive role models and life coaches in her life.

              [–]bloobird08 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              No, I’ve never seen a pretty woman be rude to a busboy. Again, most beautiful women I’ve known were kind. I’ve honestly known more ugly women who were hateful, mainly because they’re jealous of higher value women (even if they don’t say it outloud, you can tell sometimes by the way they speak negatively of beautiful women they don’t know, assuming they’re stupid or some other negative trait). I suppose we have had different life experiences.

              Also, this entire sub is condescending to ugly women, lol. Rp states that young, beautiful women get the best mate and they’re right. If ugly women can’t handle hearing, then they shouldn’t be here. There are plenty of feminist positivity movements that they can join instead who will blow smoke and tell them how beautiful and amazing they are.

              I disagree that beautiful women are “actively mean” to low smv men. I think that some of these men just take her romantic disinterest as “oh she’s a bitch”. If you disagree, fine, but there is evidence of this.. just check out the incel sub. The hatred towards any woman who ”rejects” them (by reject, it basically means doesn’t sleep with them or won’t date them) is palpable.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              No, I’ve never seen a pretty woman be rude to a busboy.

              Well, then you've seen everything.

              most beautiful women I’ve known were kind

              So this must apply to all beautiful women?

              I suppose we have had different life experiences.

              You suppose correctly.

              Also, this entire sub is condescending to ugly women

              Not at all. You're the one who can't see past your personal experience. You're the one who doesn't want to learn.

              Ugly is both physical AND mental AND social. RPW gives women tools/encouragement to overcome or minimize all three: physical (hygiene, dress, makeup, exercise), mental (therapy, different ways of approaching being feminine i.e. surrendered woman), and social (deportment, STFU, etc).

              There are plenty of feminist positivity movements that they can join instead who will blow smoke and tell them how beautiful and amazing they are.

              Blowing smoke? Nobody's telling pretty lies to women here.

              I disagree that beautiful women are “actively mean” to low smv men.

              And you know the experiences of low SMV men? I don't think so. You haven't seen pretty girls turning their bitch shields to max power on every male around who isn't high SMV, regardless of their (lack of) interest in her. Most men have.

              If you disagree, fine, but there is evidence of this.. just check out the incel sub.

              I don't give a rat's ass about incels. They're not part of the discussion, but you're fixated on them. Stop defending your right to reject low SMV men - nobody's challenging it. Start looking at others experiences and get out of your head, or you won't learn anything here.

              I'm done responding to you. You just aren't listening.

              [–]bloobird08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ok, you’re going off the deep end here.

              [–]brewmastermonk 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              If you really are ugly, then you should do other things to make up for it. Attractiveness is just one way to get attention. You can also do things like volunteer or climb the corporate ladder, so people see another side of who you are. Maybe if a guy is on the fence being in a situation that took work to get to will be enough to push him over the edge.

              [–]nereprezentativ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              This!

              Being independent financially is a desirable feature especially if you are looking for someone around your age. But maybe skip on the corporate ladder thing. Climbing the corporate ladder will use up your pretty years for NO gain at all. And men higher up on the corporate ladder are looking at the young intern's ass not at the frumpy psychotic manageresses.

              Volunteer yes, preferably somewhere where also men volunteer. Not only will this increase your chances of being hit on but it will also help you steer clear of vacuous causes as men are less likely to volunteer for stupid shit.

              [–]Kiddingyoself 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Your perspective is skewed. It makes me question the judgement of women, and quality of men, in your life until now.

              "There is no such thing as an ugly woman. Only lazy women."

              Don't be lazy. Cultivate the discipline to constantly challenge yourself to grow, and be better than you are.

              "No one owes you anything."

              Edit: On the topic of your skin, I'd recommend really focusing on diet (Imho, Primal Blueprint, or "NSNG"). In my experience, people who really clean up their diet are often surprised at how many things improve as a result. Another way of saying it is, focus on what you can control, and if you can improve something today (like diet, exercise, sleep), do that before potentially unnecessary, and unhealthy, things like skin burning, or medications.

              [–]ChiNadesler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I am not typically gentle and if you sound like a ugly woman id tell you, but you dont sound like a complete ugly girl at least from what I can tell, I think it's mostly your issues

              [–]NudeTayne893 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Here is what you do: you start hitting the weights, getting a giant fit squat booty, eating your proteins, and then wear spanks everywhere. You can look basically goofy and have a nice butt and still be revered as an 8/10 hottie. Most porno girls look total bland or even somewhat unappealing but you dont notice because they are naked. XD Do you have any sort of conditions?

              [–]0hawk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              The best thing you can do is to stop obsessing so much over your appearance, especially the things you can't control. I have wasted a lot of time fixating on uncontrollable things like my big nose and forehead - time I could've invested in my hobbies and inner self. Pursue your interests, do stuff that makes you happy. I guarantee you that that will build confidence, which will reflect on the outside. I focus on skin/haircare, exercise, diet and clothing style (things I have control over) but I try not to become too carried away as I have a habit of becoming very obsessed. I also recommend confidence and self-worth meditations on YouTube (my go to when I'm being self-critical!)

              [–]ReddJive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              a perspective from an older man.

              1. Accept what cannot be changed

              2. Everything is temporary

              3. Do not wish for the ideal situation

              4. Focus on positive emotions and minimize negtive emotions

              Understand that men seek value. In all things.

              Be of value. Sexually, socially, and unconditionally.

              As years go on we will remember this above all else.

              Beauty fades, but when we have grown old we will look at you and remember these things. Remember that above all else you were there.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [removed]

              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              No pictures. This goes against our no doxxing rule.

              [–]dagnepop 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Intelligence, talent/charisma, looks. You need only one. Some lucky people have two. A rare handful of people have all three.

              Bummer you don't have looks. Focus on developing which of the other two you do have and go live your fucking life, take no shit from anyone, and never apologize for who you are.

              [–]shannie24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Sounds like you are doing your best and oh my gosh do not give up on yourself!!! I think every girl goes through a hit of a phase when they are coming into their own where they aren’t happy with their look! Depression can suck but remember you have more control then you think. Some tips I can think of off hand are to Try microblading for your eyebrows if you can save up to do it, helps the face shape and everyone I know who has gotten it done looks dramatically better after. Also, you could try a sunless tanner (I love jergens). Force yourself into some feminine colors or patterns. Feminity comes from the inside let that radiate outward :) Pinterest can be your friend. You could try a new hair color or extensions too. Trust me - you seem very kind and caring - you will be totally fine :) just thought I’d share some ideas!

              [–]adele9829 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I think you should go at the gym, try to get your body in perfect shape that will give you confidence when you walk around. When you confidence increases than you will start to see yourself with a different eye, different prospective. You can also try different make up styles, doesn’t mean that what looks good on me will defiantly will look good on you too. To have curly hair is amazing, try to show them off more. There are a lot of tutorials you can follow of how to make them look more beautiful. Is just about confidence, if you confident the others will have nothing else to do but just respect you for who you are. Wish you all the best!

              [–]ayvyns 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I'm sorry this has been your experience and I will not demean it by saying it's all in your head. Clearly it's not.

              Others have given you tips about appearance, so you I won't go there. But this is where I would recommend going to TRP and reading their stuff about maintaining frame in your interactions with others. Speaking from personal experience, you and many, many other women experiencing this kind of disrespect - you cannot passively accept your circumstances. This is something that won't change unless you fight against it.

              [–]Lilly_Kane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Have you heard of the curly girl method of hair care? I think you'd benefit from it. I did. Facebook has a few big groups that spell everything out about the process. Also, I'm 34 and suffered with adult acne all my life. I had better skin at 16 than I did at 26. I managed to get it under control by drinking lots of water. Like lots and I hardly break out anymore, only occasionally around my cycle.

              [–]Ariel125 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I'm not going to sugar coat like everyone else on here. I know a girl who is ugly. She works out and has a tight body, but if anyone doubts a woman can be ugly, it's her. I would say she's probably the worst, big nose, ears, unibrow... she got hit with strong central European features and looks like her father... as in, she actually has a man's face. Be very, very thankful you're not her.

              But anyway...

              That said, regularly getting your eyebrows threaded and then straightening your hair with a ceramic straightener (it will take 4 minutes tops) will do wonders. Build up your top lashes with a ton of mascara (not the bottom) and you will greatly improve.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [removed]

              [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              No pictures. This goes against our no doxxing rule.

              [–]theresma 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Don't fight your hair, it will always misbehave if you try to force it. Get on the phone and find a salon that has a stylist who knows how to cut and style curly hair. I found a lady at Great Clips that did a dream of a job for my daughter. We went to her for ten years.

              [–]Ari3n3tt3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              beauty is incredibly subjective. Every individual person is born with no concept of ugly or beautiful, then as they grow up they meet lots of different people who act in different ways and that shapes their idea of ugly or beautiful. Just because you look at yourself and see ugly doesn't mean that everyone else will, you're just not your own type is all

              [–]likeaprometheancurse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              - Find the shape you want your eyebrows to be and have them done that way! Don't be afraid to change them drastically. I'm Middle Eastern and pluck my facial hair probably every two days. If you think their darkness makes it worse, don't be afraid to dye them!! Sometimes making your eyebrows a tad bit lighter changes a LOT.

              - Get medication for acne.

              - Find a good treatment for dark circles. Personally I don't mind mine and think they can be easily covered up with concealer, but there are lots of ways to reduce them! Do you sleep enough/well?

              - I think we have a lot of similarities. My hair is jet black, incredibly dry, frizzy, and HUGE. I've gotten it thinned out about 30 times in my life and it only subsided after I bleached it a few times (which I now regret). I use a quality conditioner and only wash it once or twice a week. If I were you, I would have a stylist thin it - it's a pain to deal with uncontrollable hair especially in the summer. For me, straightening or treating it every day gets old - learn some updos! I bet your hair is beautiful, big curly hair is awesome :)

              You sound pretty sensitive. I can relate to that too. I won't tell you that people aren't being rude to you or giving you nasty looks... but that happens to EVERYONE! I know it's strange, but people are just rude and uncouth sometimes no matter how you look. Don't fret it too much, it's not your fault.

              I think if you're in decent shape, dress nicely and have your own style, and are an interesting, kind person, you're already leagues ahead of the average person.

              [–]LookingForEquanimity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              check out r/curlyhair and r/skincareaddiction

              the hair and acne are fixable as are possibly the dark circles.

              if you don't like your eyebrow shape maybe try somewhere else? but do research first.

              regardless of whether you're skinny or not you should go to the gym. not only will you look better but going to the gym will boost your confidence and make you feel better about yourself and build up self esteem.

              this might sound stupid and hippy but honestly - every morning - put your hand over your heart and tell yourself good morning and that you love yourself.

              some other very good points from other posters.

              [–]DependentStrawberry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              my face is disfigured from birth. it's droopy and paralyzed on one side but i'm pretty fit from working out 6x a week. it makes a difference. guys don't care about my face when they see my body, although they do avoid kissing me.

              [–]PatriarchysConcubine -1 points0 points  (3 children)

              There are LOADS of men who are ALSO generally considered unattractive, who so deeply yearn for a connection with a woman. Just imagine, society is far harsher to undesirable men than undesirable women.

              You'll have to come to terms with yourself though. Become comfortable with who you are.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              This isn't helpful to her. There are steps that she can take to alleviate her issues, and you're basically telling her, "Men have it worse, and you can't do anything to fix your issues, so just accept yourself."

              [–]PatriarchysConcubine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I'm not saying that. Accepting yourself is one thing. Making sure your standards aren't sky high was the other point. Mentioning men was more of a side thought. Something to think about.

              Thanks for pointing it out though b cause rereading it, my intention was not clear at all.

              [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Yeah, I don't think her problem is that her standards are too high. She's not even ready to look outwards. She needs to wrestle her own head and her appearance issues first.