Field ReportBe confrontational (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TRP VanguardCyralea

It's been my experience that a lot of fledgling TRP'ers have trouble with expressing themselves in a manner that satisfies their desires, particularly when it comes to confrontation. Often in potentially confrontational situations they will do whatever they can to de-escalate the situation because it puts them into social distress. Consider how this behaviour looks to an outsider observer. Weak, afraid, nervous. A strong individual clearly establishes when a line has been crossed, and does not hesitate to demonstrate it.

The way Tom Cruise handles being pranked demonstrates this well.

I'll give an example of a situation where I dealt with something similar. I was at the gym doing pulley side-laterals. Had my music going. A fitness instructor with her protege comes along and tries talking to me, can't make out what she's saying because of my music. When I turn it off to see what she's about, she rolls her eyes and says something to the effect of "Wow, I only had to ask four times". I know how a lot of weaker men would have reacted. "Oh, sorry". Or sheepishly smiled/laughed. Being put on the spot brings out a lot of stress in unconfident men.

What I did instead was look her in the eye and say "I clearly have ear buds on. Do you think that's an appropriate way to talk to someone who pays to be here?" She was caught completely off guard. She started mumbling about how she's just trying to expedite her client's workout, which I cut off half-way. I asked her again "Do you think that was an appropriate way to behave?" while making direct eye contact. She tells me she's sorry, and let's me go back to my workout.

Some half-hour later she comes by after her client is gone and she apologizes to me profusely, saying that what she did was out of character (doubtful) and that it was completely inappropriate. I accept her apology.

What blue-pill men often do is de-escalate and then kick themselves afterwards for not being so assertive. They rage internally that others had the audacity to infringe on them. The blame is on them however, people can only ever do to you what you allow them to.

If someone does something that violates one of your personal boundaries, do not hesitate to confront them and set them right. This includes friends, girlfriends and family. The only respect you get in life is that which you can command.

[–]AgentSmith27 178 points179 points  (19 children)

I don't think its necessarily being "confrontational" that is important, as much as it is being direct. Its important to say what you think, and what is in your best interest. Too many people filter that out and try to be overly nice. The average person will push as far as you are willing to give in order to get what they want.

Most people don't want an actual confrontation. Practically everyone is just trying to find the easiest and most comfortable path to get through the day. They don't want to start an argument (or be inconvenienced at all) over things that aren't important to them.

The key to balancing the two is to be perfectly clear about what you want, without getting emotional about it. If a huge 300 lb. meat head walks up to you in the gym and says he wants to use your machine when you are using it, it would probably be a bad idea to say "what the fuck is wrong with you, you see I'm using it asshole". This will probably only serve to escalate the situation, and you probably won't want an escalation here.

Instead, a cold emotionless, "I'll be done in a few minutes" is probably the best approach. If they blow up or try to be persistent, they will just start to look weird and crazy in contrast to your calm and assertive demeanor. If they still blow up, you can then point out the fact that they are getting worked up over something small, and make them feel self conscious about it. Most people, who aren't actually crazy, will call it quits.

For things that are actually important to you... you should be confrontational and angry... For the small things, you usually don't want a true confrontation.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 68 points69 points  (8 children)

This is a good addendum, I ought to have made mention of it. Standing up for yourself doesn't mean be openly hostile. Stoic, assertive and direct responses are best.

Granted, some people may label you as an asshole anyhow, but they are of no consequence to you.

[–]nuffinthegreat 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's of "no consequence to you" that they think you're an asshole, yet it's somehow imperative that you take a stand when they impugn your listening ability. I'm not sure how you regard this response as stoic. The stoic and reasoned response would be to discipline your mind such that you don't regard offhand comments made by strangers as threats to your esteem that you have to confront.

[–]Old_foundation 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think he meant laconic more than stoic

[–]Ojisan1 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Yes, the Tom Cruise example wasn't so much confrontational as he held his frame, extremely expertly. He didn't get rattled, emotional, excited, raise his voice, or even get embarrassed. He just acknowledged what his gut said, which was "I don't like this, I don't appreciate this, and you really shouldn't have done it." And then his words expressed what his gut said. Directly, like a boss.

[–]aww40 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I agree. And even though the interviewer tried to play it off, you could tell he was embarrassed by the end of it.

[–]Zaorish9 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I agree, I think the topic "be confrontatial" could be misinterpreted as encouraging people to start arguments which isn't effective

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What you want to develop is confrontation tolerance. You deal with issues in a straightforward manner. You're able to handle relational friction without losing your cool, without escalating tension or catastrophizing (dramatically accentuating the negative).

Too many men shy from confrontation, or handle it in a passive-aggressive manner. You have to demonstrate you accept tension and welcome passionate debate. If you continually play the peace-keeper role, she'll play the provocateur because calm waters are dull.

[–]jadedspade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with this too. Acting aloof but making a point to stand your ground

[–]1PaulRivers10 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

The key to balancing the two is to be perfectly clear about what you want, without getting emotional about it.

It's a pretty good post, but I don't quite agree with the "don't get emotional" part. (Many times that's a good response, but not always.)

I've spent a lot of time specifically with women being "stoic". Spent a lot of my time at my job like that to. There's certain situations where that works, but a lot of times you just get ignored. I tried being direct and unemotional - worked a little better, but now when you get ignored it's more obvious that you're being ignored.

There's several points where I had tried stoic, and I had tried calm and logical, and only emotional either helped or I'm fairly certain it would have:

  • My boss tried to pass the blame for our project deadline coming in very very late onto me in a meeting with me and his boss. I could talk logically all day and he wasn't going to change his frame. I got emotional and told them they could kiss my ass (what I actually said was that "I quit") and suddenly I was taken far more seriously.

  • Went out on a date with a girl (I specifically called it a date) at the end she gave me the "wouldn't want to ruin our friendship" bullshit. I took it fairly stoicly - when I should have gotten emotional. Probably could have gone with direct as well "you realize if after all this nothing is going on, that we're not going to keep being friends that hang out all the time, right?" but getting emotional would have worked to. (Assuming my emotion was not "oh god this is terrible" but rather more like "This is very frustrating, we're not going to keep being friends who hang out all the time")

  • In college a girl I was friends with (and later sleeping with) started doing the "I'm so depressed and want to kill myself, and I have an eating disorder" thing more than usual. I could have been stoic, or have been direct (which I already had been) all day long and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Instead, I was standing in her room, watching her do this, and I just started emotionally detaching from her. I had seen a previous girlfriend go through this, and wasn't going to go through this crap again - I'd rather toss her aside than do it.

When I did that, after about 15 seconds you could practically see a light bulb come on in her head, her mood changed and she stopped doing that shit for attention. It certainly didn't clear up right away, but it became less and less, eventually we started sleeping together, and after a year she seemed to be over it.

Recently a girl was kinda bitchy to me, we had been flirting for a while at dancing - I say we should grab something to eat afterwards, she says she would but "the person she's staying with is afraid of the dark" so she has to go. It's hard to describe the context here - I got the feeling she was just raised so religiously that spending time with a guy outside of a social group got an automatic "omg that's scary" reaction, probably combined with the religious people telling her that the guy would "respect her more" or something like that. My reaction was stoic.

Which was my mistake, based on things that happened after that. I would have been far, far better off getting more emotional - "So you're saying to fuck off?". It's hard to describe the nuance of the background and situation online here, but I'm 100% certain that would have been a better reaction. It was more of a "last minute resistance" kind of thing than a "I actually want you to get lost" kind of thing.

[–]AgentSmith27 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well, I think the point I was trying to make is that being stoic doesn't escalate things, and when something doesn't really matter to you then its not worth escalating over.

In my last paragraph, I said if something matters then you should definitely get emotional about it. Something that matters to you is worth starting a fight over. Likewise, if something doesn't matter, starting a fight (verbal or physical) can ruin your day for no reason.

[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Applying whatnot philosophy of stoicism shouldn't translate to being emotionally-unavailable.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 41 points42 points  (4 children)

Having just witnessed a hilariously inappropriate confrontation last night while at work, I just want to add one important thing to grasp about these situations.

Check your pride.

I currently work at a restaurant. It's a shit job, but most everyone is nice so long as you pull your weight. This new dishwasher was not pulling his weight at all, though. 17 year old wannabe tough guy with a shitty haircut walking around with an attitude the whole night. Dishes were piling up everywhere, yet he's just moseying around the restaurant putting one thing away at a time.

Anyways, after a while of this bullshit, the grill guy finally goes over and tells him "move your ass man, you've got a lot of shit." (in thick spanish accent) The kid immediately comes back with some snarky little, "what are you gonna do about it?" Still explaining that everyone else is better at dish than he is and he needs to do his job, the kid starts puffing out his chest telling him to get the fuck out of his face. Grill guy is not to be fucked with-- has lived in jail a while and not looking to go back over some little shit. So grill guy composes himself and walks away. Dishdouche still posturing up to him, takes off his apron, and grabs a knife and shouts "c'mon motherfucker, let's GO!" Before the words even leave his mouth, the manager comes storming in and fires him on the spot. It was so satisfying.

This is all to say that if you don't check your pride, constantly being in confrontation mode will actually get you more inside your head and have more resentment than you would otherwise. If you're pride is so huge that you take offense to everything even when you're in the wrong or -more commonly- when no one is in the wrong, you're gonna have a bad time and you're going to become an asshole.

You will garner more respect if you humbly know your place and take responsibility for yourself than you would if you proudly boast that you deserve respect you haven't earned.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There is a difference between confrontation and misdirected anger. The guy in your story sound like an angsty teen who is out of touch with himself. The grill guy did the right thing by walking away, since a guy with that much life experience probably felt this idiot's energy a mile away and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

[–]1PaulRivers10 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You will garner more respect if you humbly know your place and take responsibility for yourself than you would if you proudly boast that you deserve respect you haven't earned.

Emotions are thinking - they're a pattern based way of thinking.

The problem with that guy is his emotion of pride is retardedly stupid. Smart pride vs stupid pride is the difference between standing up to someone trying to take you down when you're doing a good job (good, and you keep your social standing in front of your boss and your coworkers) vs doing a bad job and then getting up in someone's face about talking about it, and picking up a knife and threatening them.

Smart pride is not allowing someone to take credit for your work. Dumb pride is getting in other peoples way who are doing work so you can feel important.

Smart pride is having an argument with your boss now about what he wants you to do, because you know from professional experience that things are going to take way to long doing them that way, and this leads to you now getting blamed for the project taking to long.

Dumb pride is having a constant series of arguments with your boss and never actually getting anything done at all.


[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When keeping it real goes wrong.

[–]watersign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

props to grill guy for maintaining frame.

[–]tenin2010br 44 points45 points  (59 children)

This to me has been the hardest part swallowing the pill; it's a very crucial point to grasp. I was raised all my life to bring trouble to no one, and I would have reacted in a blue pill manner given the situation. I've spent 20 years not being confrontational, any tips on swinging my behavior in the other direction?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 51 points52 points  (38 children)

Start with little things to build up your courage. Let me guess, you make way for people when walking along sidewalks and corridors? Stop doing that. Walk your course. People will make way for you, they will rarely collide with you unexpectedly.

Don't laugh at your own jokes, or in response to uncomfortable situations.

Train yourself to make eye contact a little longer than is comfortable.

Train yourself to speak slower, and a little more deeply than your natural voice.

Eventually these become who you are and feel natural.

[–]Hereletmegooglethat 49 points50 points  (28 children)

I can't laugh at my own jokes? I say some pretty funny shit sometimes, I doubt that's a lack of confidence.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (25 children)

You are right. Laughing at your own jokes is not displaying lack of confidence. It's more or less standard. However, not laughing at your own jokes is a huge display of confidence.

[–]abutterfly 16 points17 points  (2 children)

If you get the chance, head down to a comic book shop and listen to the guys laughing at THEIR own jokes.

THAT'S the laugh you want to avoid. It's unsure and insecure. It's terrible.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Man, I feel so lucky that most of the customers (and all the staff) at my local comic shop are normal, not socially-awkward people. Of course, I only go in there at night after work. I've been told that the few weirdos usually show up right after they open, so I never see them.

[–]GreatWhite_Buffalo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can't you get the same shit for free online?

[–]2wiseclockcounter 6 points7 points  (21 children)

or arrogance. depends on the social situation.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

True. But think about it in game theory. You have two options. 1) Appear either arrogant OR confident. or 2) Be perceived as not lacking confidence aka no real social benefit.

In the first situation, you either gain or loose. In the second, you get nothing regardless. I would assume most men here would roll the dice on the first, especially considering you can eventually learn to straddle the line between arrogance and confidence more effectively.

Edit- wording

[–]2wiseclockcounter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Your terms are too black and white, which is why I was saying it depends on the social situation. Real confidence is internal. If you are a socially adept person, that internal confidence will naturally manifest itself in an external manner most appropriate to your situation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said it didn't depend on the social situation. I actually agreed with you when you said it can be be interpreted as arrogant. I just went on to state that it would be better to air on the potential of being arrogant. This was my ONLY contention.

However, you chose to respond with a discussion about internal confidence manifesting real confidence. While this is true, it is irrelevant because I never questioned it. I can't tell if this is a blatant strawman argument or if you just didn't bother to read.

[–]CaballeroRojo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You can, just don't be that guy. I'm sure you've met him. That's the laugh you want to avoid. I wish I could show you a video of what I mean. I guess just don't be a dork about it. If you're laughing as much as the rest of the group you've failed.

My reasoning for this is that, since you already know the joke and probably told it a million times, there's no way you are finding it just as funny as the rest. What is really making you laugh that way is how very happy it makes you that others are giving you validation. That is what you want to avoid. You're not looking for validation, women and betas do that. You're just entertaining for the sake of entertaiment, nothing else.

You don't want to get caught trying to hold laughter in either. Personally I just chuckle. I find that works best. I think when they tell you not to laugh they don't mean keep a straight face. Personally, I don't think I'd react positively to someone who told me a joke and then suddenly became emotionless.

[–]ruboski 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's a guy in one of my classes at Uni who says a lot of jokes but never laughs, he comes off as the angriest motherfucker.

[–]tenin2010br 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've started speaking slower, I'm really good with eye contact, so I've got half. Need to stop laughing at myself and stop moving out of the way for people. Thanks a lot for the tips.

[–]Ojisan1 0 points1 point  (6 children)

you make way for people when walking along sidewalks and corridors? Stop doing that. Walk your course. People will make way for you, they will rarely collide with you unexpectedly.

I can't see how this works. If I walk my course, and they walk theirs, there's bound to be a collision. Someone has to give, I agree that it shouldn't have to be me, but otherwise there's going to be fights every few minutes on the streets of people bouncing into each other. Do you make eye contact to let them know "hey, I'm not moving so you had better get outta my way"?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No, what happens is if both people are about to collide and both aren't moving, they usually slow / stop. Then that shuffle can happen where both people decide which way they are going and one person doesn't know his right from left. I move on the sidewalk for old people and people with disabilities. But I've noticed what most people do is if they see a collision about to happen, they will slowly angle themselves like 4 degrees away, so by the time they get to you it LOOKS like they were never really on your path, and thus they appear as if they didn't change to avoid you.

No need to make full eye contact with them, just don't be looking down. But that is mainly because most dudes need a lot of practice at not looking down, so they should really be using their time to practice that. And don't do that thing where if you both make eye contact, you look away immediately. Look away after they look away.

Even if you meet someone who read this exact same comment, it is likely that one of you will sidestep before the collision because humans have a hard-wired, almost involuntary response to collision. Unless that person is like full dick-head 'I religiously read RP and will fight to overcome that natural instinct to the bitter end' you will both subconsciously dodge a direct hit.

[–]pagan2287 1 point2 points  (2 children)

actually this is a thing I have been doing for years. its hard to explain, but when i walk i am eyes up good posture looking straight ahead at my path. people will unconsciously move from your path. happens every day. i am a forty something with 30 extra pounds on me and thinning hair. i project an attitude of "this side yours, this side mine". like i said hard for me to explain how it works for me and i cant tell you how to make it work for you. no risk, no reward

[–]ruboski 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How tall are you?

[–]pagan2287 1 point2 points  (0 children)

5'10" 240 lbs

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, just maintain heading. The idea is that you don't want to be in the mindset of being a people-pleaser. The point isn't to get into needless confrontations, but to instill the idea of of "This is what I've established I'm doing, I will push until I get it"

It's that mental holdover that you want to spill over into relationships and your career.

[–]yourenogood 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Ditto. I didn't join TRP till recently, but had made the same discoveries a couple of years ago. Confrontation was always my downfall too, and what kept resetting my progress, eventually leading to me discovering TRP.

With thanks to /u/RPthrowaway123 /u/dousche and /u/SpinalArt who recommended it for this, read "No More Mr Nice Guy!". I imagine it will be as eerily close to your own life as it was to mine. There's copies in PDF if you google it and want to check it out first. One thing I've been doing over the past week as part of one of the activities, is actively trying to not use the word "sorry" at all; just completely focusing on that in all interactions. First day I fucked up and said it eight times in one evening alone. EIGHT TIMES!!! Any time I use it, I have to really question why, in that moment, I felt like I had to. So, my goal over this month is to never use it at all for the next month, not matter what; force myself out of it, and out of that mindset that I need to apologise constantly for everything. Has actually been progressing really well, and even today I found myself being able to avoid it completely (even when I'm late, fuck up other people when driving, bump into people, etc). It's also made me aware of other things I do, like getting out of other people's way in corridors, the street, etc (why? when I have as much right to occupy this space as they do?). There's a lot of other things I've recognised, but I'm just trying to focus on this one key thing first.

[–]LukesLikeIt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea I realised even when you are in the wrong apologizing doesn't help you at all. It's like you're trying to preserve their "high opinion" of you by apologizing for this out of habit interaction (being late) but most times it has the opposite effect.

[–]apackofwankers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If giving up apologies is difficult, then you can compensate by showing more gratitude.

Plus, you really seek out a situation every day in which you piss someone off. Just as a training exercise, to immunize yourself from other people's angry feelings.

[–]CaballeroRojo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

get mad? I don't get bluepills they get offended by tiny little things but when it is the real time to be offended they act like scared dogs.

[–]MarriedRP 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I am getting a huge amount of traction in my own interactions using the words "That's not how we behave." and then explaining very briefly what the offending action was. I use it on my kids, my wife, and I've sprinkled it in with other people. It's a fucking soul crusher, so make damn sure you are perfectly calm and unassailably correct, and do not over use it.

Also, it's been a few years since I've been to the gym, but standard procedure when I worked out is you never spoke to someone that was using a machine or weights. Ever. You didn't get between them and a mirror if they were watching form in the reflection, you didn't even make eye contact. Nothing to pop them out of the zone.

When you were done with your set, you stand up, wipe down the equip with your towel, and stand next to it. Somebody wants on, they ask "hey mind if I work in?" The response was either "no problem" (almost always) or "I'm doing timed sets and don't want to break rhythm, I'll be done in a few" (almost never).

I had this explained to me, once. I explained it to others a few times. Quietly. You do not want to embarrass anyone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"That's not how we behave" sounds great.

[–]CreepAcceptance 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is providing, as MarriedRP said, you have a logical reason to back it up. While you may have the authority over some to leave it at that one statement, eventually someone is going to question that and if you've no logical point to back it then you'll be left floundering. So yes having one liners to shut shit down is great but without a reasoned position to back it up "that's not how we behave" is a simply tactic used to get compliance via social pressure.

[–]tenin2010br 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll be sure to utilize "that's not how we behave". I've had people say this to me in the past and it really is a soul crusher.

[–]LukesLikeIt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God dam that mirror thing is spot on. How many wana be alphas walk in front of your mirror just so you notice them. Fuck off. If you want my attention so bad you don't deserve it.

[–]CreepAcceptance 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Be physically strong - lifting and martial arts. Knowing you're strong enough and capable enough to physically fend for yourself will probably be a big boost. What damage can a few words really do.

Be mentally strong - that is learn to argue without taking things personally and getting emotional. Put yourself into new situations and learn to cope with them. I'm not saying seek out suffering but don't shy away from things that are difficult. Realise that it doesn't matter if you and someone else will never agree on a point.

The power and attitude you project both physically and mentally go a long way. People treat you the way you let them. Start with situations where you have nothing to lose or the stakes are small and work your way up.

[–]tenin2010br 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely mentally strong, I love to interact with brain games, books, chess, and the like. As for physicality, I've been playing a lot of volleyball lately and lifting. Lifting has only been 3-4 times a week for the past two weeks. My best tool is time in that case, which I've come to realize. Thanks for the advice.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Lifting helps, being stronger will make you take less shit. Start noticing times you should be confrontational, and make a point to do so.

[–]tenin2010br 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah I'm definitely on my way here, been cutting back and eating healthier. Honestly in this regard my best friend is time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good attitude. It does take time, but you'll see the results eventually, and they are significant.

[–]LukesLikeIt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It also causes your body to increase test production and that most definitely helps with being alpha.

[–]IWillAlwaysReplyBack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get angry. Calibrate. Anger is self protection.

[–]frequentlywrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take up martial arts. I recommend this to everyone but I doubt many take the advice. Real martial arts are like red pill school of frame.

[–]mightyspan 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Start learning muy thai or jiu-jitsu. Muy thai is very pro-contact so it will toughen you up such that being assertive will no longer be a challenge.

If that's a bit aggressive for you jiu jitsu is less contact-oriented and focuses more on solving puzzles as they relate escaping difficult physical situations with as little actual violence as possible.

Both will make you infinitely more confident such that you can approach difficult situations with competence and clarity.

[–]tenin2010br 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My college has a jiu jitsu program, I'll have to get involved soon. I'll give it a shot, thanks.

[–]mightyspan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent. I can't recommend it enough. It will change your life, you have my word...even though I'm just some dude on the internet.

[–]Sleazyridr 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I'd not seen that Tom Cruise video before, but watching the way he talked to that guy, made me realise that it's the same way I talk to my daughter. Not trying to start a fight, not being an asshole about it, but making sure she realises that that behaviour is unacceptable. Also, I act that way toward her because I care about her and I want her to become a better person. It's too much work to be everyone's father, but being fatherly in all your interactions will do you well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For some reason that clip came into my thoughts today whilst thinking over some of this red pill stuff. Quite nice to see it mentioned. I got to thinking about red pill role models and arnold came to mind. His funny line about girly men. The way he carries himself. Is he someone you can point to and say he is doing it right?

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (2 children)

Eye contact tells people that you have more than an ounce of self-respect. Good work, OP.

[–]LukesLikeIt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

looking people in the eye shows respect to them as well. People who interact with you while not once looking you in the eye are pathetic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is looking people in their eyes actually socially acceptable? I was alway taught against it. (Look at people's nose instead).

[–]da-way 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Classic case of alpha behavior.

Set boundaries and demand that others respect them, "punish" when they don't. People respond to your behavior and take ques cues from it on how to interact with you (demonstrated well by the fitness instructors meekness when she apologized). OP also didn't let her weasel out of responsibility for her behavior and thereby signaled to her how he expected to be treated.

[–]1AfterC 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–]RobbyMalt 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Notice how Tom says it while being calm yet still being firm about what he's saying, even though the content of his speech is confrontational. The light smirk just further shows how he believes he's in control of himself and the situation. If you show anger, it will further show how much it phased you.

[–][deleted] 21 points21 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 11 points12 points  (3 children)

"get out of my way, you are blocking the fire"

Well, to her credit, she used a girl opener on you. It was a shitty one, but it worked for her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

"Girl opener", I have never heard of those? I thought it was just a shit test.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Well, women use shit tests to flirt. A shit test without any opener on your part can only be considered an opener.

[–]sctechie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't that great. In absence of the need to develop actual inter-personal skills, the female reverts back to her base instincts and searches for males by shit-testing all of them in sight.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How would you react if she was in front of the fire, and she asked you to apologize?

[–]2RedPill4LYF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A lot of people on here think negging and "passing" shit-tests by being a jester is the right way to be. I don't play the game of a shit-test. I always confront it head on just like what you did in this story. I honestly do not care who I offend or catch off guard. Misandric behavior needs to be confronted. It needs to be discouraged. Entitled women need to step off the pedestal themselves.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Great thread OP. This is a lot like one of the last black philip episodes where Patrice O'Neal brings up frame on a date. I've gotta short hand this example as I'm away from my PC. For example, it shouldn't even occur to your girlfriend/casual partner to ask for a correction on an order at a restaurant. (If a waiter messes up your order) Your girl has to know you have the confidence to fight your own battles and handle confrontations. You should have the stones to do that yourself in that situation and other situations. Once you've let your girl or others fight your battles, people will lose respect for you.

This may example may come across as 'common sense' for a lot of folks, but again people are coming from all backgrounds on this subreddit, so I just thought I'd share.

[–]Wiskie 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Just don't take it to the point of everyone hating you because you can't take a joke. At least be predictable in your outbursts. Set some boundaries and confront if people cross them.

I've known a few guys who were quickly prone to anger and it didn't really do them any favors from a sexual perspective when they screamed at the waiter for getting their drink order wrong.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And the word for that would be humility. Sometimes you can be the punchline of a hilarious joke in a large social situation. Unless it's absolutely important you draw a line in the sand about it, it's gonna be best to laugh along with everyone.

[–]1PaulRivers10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like in your example, you get judged based on where you set your boundaries as well. You need to set your frame, but setting up a stupid frame is as bad as not having a frame.

[–]OneTouchHowMuch 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I accept her apology.

How do you do this? I don't know what to say when someone says sorry.

My default response used to be "That's ok/fine" but it wasn't ok.

I don't want to be overly aggressive as in "Just don't let it happen again."

[–]Ojisan1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Apology accepted"

puts headphones back on and resumes workout

[–]Endorsed Contributoraaron_the_just 57 points58 points  (40 children)

Slightly related: being snarky or sarcastic isn't being confrontational; it's essentially being feminine.

If you've got a snarky or sarcastic bent, stop it.

[–]AgentSmith27 53 points54 points  (22 children)

I don't agree. Sarcasm is an effective tool that can be used to make a point. If you are saying that you should never be passive aggressive and sarcastic, then you are saying you should always be aggressive and blunt. Not every problem is a nail, so you shouldn't try to use a hammer in every situation.

[–]Blood_Vaults 38 points39 points  (6 children)

Sarcasm can be humorous if well timed and administered in low doses. However, millennials utterly overuse sarcasm to the point that it becomes their default deposition and primary method of conveying their observations to other people - at which point it becomes meta with that South Park episode.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm with you. There is a difference between a sardonic sense of humor and mindless sarcasm.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Sarcasm is poison. It's saying to somebody you're not agreeing without trying to get on the same level. It's hostile and arrogant. If you think somebody cannot be reasoned with, why do you have to use sarcasm to tell them? I see no point in sarcasm unless you are using it to bond and even then it is toxic and should be used as little as possible.

[–]AgentSmith27 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well, sarcasm is a middle ground. Lets say you think someone is making a brain dead argument... you could puss out completely and just say "I disagree" and not tell them how you really feel. You could use sarcasm and get in a little shot, or you could straight out call them a brain dead moron who should duct tape their mouth shut.

Sarcasm isn't meant to be friendly, but its usually a few steps short of saying what you really think. As much as I would like a world where everyone holds hands, and acts really nice to one another, its not going to happen. Conversely, a world where everyone says exactly what they think all the time would be pretty bad as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hold on. Why is it pussing out to say you disagree? People do not have to agree or find common ground on everything. Just disagree and leave it at that. There's no point in sarcasm. Sure they might be a brain dead moron, but what good is it to use sarcasm to let them know you think so? They won't realize it because of your sarcasm. Just make a note for yourself that this person is a moron.

Now I'm perfectly fine with using sarcasm against somebody who is already hostile and disrespectful towards you. It's an excellent tool in these situations.

[–]AgentSmith27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hold on. Why is it pussing out to say you disagree? People do not have to agree or find common ground on everything. Just disagree and leave it at that.

Its pussing out because you aren't saying how you really feel. If you think someone says something ridiculously stupid, simply saying "I don't agree" is a very incomplete way of expressing your opinion... because you don't just disagree, you think the statement is completely moronic.

You don't have to completely detatch yourself from your emotions and hide what you really feel all the time. You should express what is on your mind. Sarcasm is just a less direct and more socially acceptable way of attacking an idea.

Saying there is no reason for sarcasm is akin to saying "no one should ever be mean to one another". Its a great concept, but in reality people express their emotions. There always will be a middle ground between bottling your emotions and exploding on someone. Sarcasm is just one of those middle grounds.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah dude you're totally right, nobody ever used sarcasm to dismiss someone with a shitty opinion when they didn't feel like spending the time to explain to the person why they're wrong

[–]BigDaddyLurker 0 points1 point  (6 children)

In Transactional Analysis, we learn that sarcasm comes from our child ego state. The child ego state is where we go when we have become "emotionally hooked", and is not a great place to be while in public. We get hooked when people assert their parent ego state on us or trigger us by using their child. Learn to use your parent to put people into their child as OP did, they will turn into bumbling idiots. This is why cops yell, they use a critical parent approach to get you to become a compliant child. I recommend using something more nurturing so you come across as less of a dick. Ymmv

[–]AgentSmith27 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Again, its a tool. You can't go around yelling at everyone and talking down to people all the time. There are people who do this, and they are often as idiots and schmucks, because intelligent people don't often converse like that. As you said, this makes you come across like a dick. Either way, your response has to be appropriate to the situation.

Take the situation where you are talking about politics with someone. They mention that they think its a good idea to invade Iran. You could bottle your emotions completely and take your time explaining why its not a good idea... or you could give a sarcastic response like "Yeah, because that worked out so well in Iraq and a Afghanistan". Its quick, its short, its to the point... and while its slightly more condescending than simply stating a well though out position, its not overtly insulting.

If you got up and said, "NO. That is a very stupid thing to say. What is wrong with you?" and talked down to them, then they would likely take more offense than with the sarcasm.

The point is, sarcasm shows a hint of distaste without really being confrontational. It lets you put out a negative response without going overboard. I don't think it has to do so much with your inner child, as much as it is about balancing social etiquette with negative emotions/opinions.

[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Truly intelligence and successful people –not psychopaths– whom actually have emotional-intellegence seek to ameliorate and mediate interpersonal conflicts. They don't go out to passive-aggressively exacerbate hostile aggression and inflict personal agendas, tarnishing relationships by politicalizing it.

[–]AgentSmith27 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Firstly, that is the no true Scotsman fallacy. For example schrodinger's cat was really a sarcastic jab at the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. He thought the idea was ridiculous, and made the thought experiment to show that. It flies over the head of most lay people today, who really think its how QM actually. He was pretty intelligent and successful. You could actually make a pretty long list of smart and successful people who've used sarcasm...

Aside from that, I can go further than just saying "smart people" use sarcasm. I can say "most people sarcasm" to some degree. That includes those who are very intelligent and successful, as well as unintelligent and unsuccessful.

Anyways, the point I think you (and others) are trying to make is ridiculous. What you are saying is, basically, that you should never be passive-aggressive. Well, look at that word: Passive-Aggressive. You can be completely passive (e.g. just go along with people saying something you have a strong negative opinion about)... you can be completely aggressive (e.g. tell them your strong negative opinion - "you are a complete idiot for even suggesting that")... OR you can non-confrontationally (passively) inform them of your strong negative opinion (hence the aggressive part). That is passive aggression. Sarcasm is one way to accomplish this, satire is another. Most people can take sarcasm and satire in stride.

You'd have to be a very binary type of person to only choose being passive or being aggressive. If you are not ok with people being passive aggressive with you, then I'd suggest you thicken your skin. If you can't take passive aggression, you'd most likely not be able to handle someone being fully aggressive and just telling you their negative opinions straight out. The humor often found in sarcasm is a deflection mechanism, and its meant to make it easier to brush off. Learn to roll with the punches.

[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Just because I'm saying that passive-aggressiveness is a negative trait doesn't mean it results into a binary choice of choosing the dichotomy of "passivity" and "aggression". The issue is inherent that we're already acknowledging passive-aggressiveness in whatever context, literally and figuratively. Being sincere and assertive doesn't mean bending over back nor being overtly opinionated.

[–]AgentSmith27 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Just because I'm saying that passive-aggressiveness is a negative trait doesn't mean it results into a binary choice of choosing the dichotomy of "passivity" and "aggression".

The point I'm trying to make is that its a specturm, and passive-aggressiveness falls in the middle. By avoiding the center of the spectrum, you are in fact advocating for only using the extremes.

Again, if someone says something that sounds extremely foolish to you, what do you do? Do you just say you disagree in the most civil manner possible? Do you make an offhand remark as a backhanded joke? Do you just come out and say its a stupid thing to say? The most honest approach is to say what you think of their idea, but that can also be the most confrontational (or in the case of this discussion, "aggressive").

I'm a big fan of honesty and saying what you really feel... but even I know that completely unfiltered (negative) thoughts are socially inappropriate at times. Passive-aggressive statements are often honest, but use humor and non-direct methods to convey the (negative) honesty.

The fact of the matter is that strong negative opinions are never going to be well received, which is why some people don't like sarcasm and other passive-aggressive tendencies... but believe me, they like direct (negative) honesty even less. I've had this discussion before, and there are people who insist on never introducing negativity... but that is really just advocating passivity, and by doing so you are avoiding honesty.

You can never completely suppress negative sentiments, nor should you.

[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For the most part, I don't disagree with this generalization. This is an issue of interpersonal relations, which is dependent on the threshold of respective tolerance for each respective party here. As such, each person has to figure out themselves how to navigate and decide how to respectively best approach their communication/relations for less blowback and maximized effect/productivity.

It's very circumstantial and situational that is dependent on a context of sociocultural/political undertones. We can't posit absolute answers for everyone here.

[–]skimdit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bond, James Bond comes to mind.

[–]craylash 18 points19 points  (10 children)

Passive aggression truly is a bitch move. It doesn't show how smart you are, it just shows that you hide behind your "wittiness".

[–]merkmerk73 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Reminds me if the line from Tyler Durden - 'how's that working out for you? Being clever?"

[–]beginner_ 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Agree with OP. This is one of my most serious problems.

Albeit I don't really like Tom Cruise he did handle that Situation very, very well.

[–]andyjeff76 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah the prankster become the one who was shamed, not the other way round. Quite a great study.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hell, Tom Cruise made me feel guilty...

[–]bat_mayn 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's important you're not "too" confrontational. The point is disarming the situation while asserting yourself. Not raging out.

I've seen a lot of people hulk out over nonsense because they don't know how to assert themselves properly.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wildly giving into emotional anger isn't a strong quality. That's why you use the direct, authoritative voice. It commands respect while demonstrating control.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (12 children)

I'm dealing with a new female coworker who behaves friendly but constantly attempts to put me down in front of other coworkers and has effectively won most females to her coalition. I behave aloof and unaffected every time. The men have noted this behavior she exhibits and effectively ignore it, but it's gotten to a point where I need to put her into check.

If she were outside of work I'd have settled this long ago, however I am a junior associate (as is she) and I have been maintaining professionalism. I read recently about calling out their behavior non-chalantly, but I need to set boundaries. I have attempted to by noting to her privately that we are allies and she has apologized one on one but in group dynamics she maintains the same frame.

How do I put a stop to this without creating unwanted office tension?

[–]46xy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well you may have to create unwanted office tension.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How would you recommend going about it? From this post I took "is that appropriate behavior for a workplace/to a colleague?" with a deadpan look as a response for her next attack, but often her attacks aren't directed at me but with me in the vicinity.

I agree. Tension temporarily solved the one on one behavior. I'll need to find a way to drum it up further.

[–]whowhathuhumm 1 point2 points  (2 children)

She's not an ally and perceived office tension be damned.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I fear escalation scenarios to higher up management every time I think about confrontation. I think she would win any sort of battle there due to looks and overall corporate power she has me beat (she transferred in via recommendation).

I suppose this is effectively my downfall and true root issue.

[–]whowhathuhumm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Be calm, assertive, dominant(ever seen the dog whisperer?) Check her that it's not acceptable what she's doing. If you do it in private she could weave a story and go to management to fuck you so do in group.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The workplace is one area where I would say to exercise caution. Excessive displays of dominance don't go over well given how favourably feminism is looked upon, especially in places where professionalism is demanded. I work with lawyers myself, it's a dangerous field to tread.

You're doing it right by maintaining aloofness. The most successful men I've seen are where the AMOG subverts the group to his frame. You really need to win over colleagues. This often means demonstrating yourself as being high workplace value, more likely to succeed than others. People usually want to attach themselves to your success.

Worst case scenario, suck it up and play beta under the radar. Your entire livelihood is contingent on your successful career. There's no point needlessly risking that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree, I have been exercising complete caution. I have considered exiting group scenarios with her involved, such as declining group lunches. However I fear she may spend time shit talking me behind my back and turning the true allies I have remaining against me.

I don't think avoidance is the correct method. Perhaps intra avoidance during group sessions facilitating my own discussions without her involvement. Tactfully seating and so on.

However she sits beside me and is my counterpart.

I dominate most discussions and I think I have put a target on my own head. I have recently been taking notes on the extremely aloof and quiet likable guy. Time and place.

[–]sctechie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You win this battle by clearly demonstrating you are more valuable than her. Talking to her will most likely do nothing as she knows the corporate structure is set up to defend her, specifically from your ability to interact with her as equal.

That's the big lie about 'equality' is that it really isn't equality, it's special treatment for women. If she were a man, you could just confront him directly and resolve the situation. Confronting a female is quite likely to get you labeled as a woman-hater or abusive or something along those lines.

Your direct equals at the company are completely irrelevant and unimportant. You can't win this battle by confronting her directly. You need to go above her. Become irreplaceable to your boss and your boss's boss and it won't matter her frame is. Trying to prove a point to her is worthless, same for any of the other 'junior associates' you work with.

[–]opencover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When she puts you down, embarrass her in some way. It doesn't have to mirror what she does, it can be different and a bit worse. You want to embarrass and scare her. Not scare her physically, which will get you in trouble and make you vulnerable. Scare her as in making her wish she hadn't said the offensive thing to you. Win.

When she puts you down, she has already started a confrontation. Win it.

That can even create attraction to you (if you're a guy which you don't say) in her and the other female coworkers who hear about it.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm extremely junior, as junior as it gets. However as is she and as are everyone else we spend time with. Her behavior is in check around higher ups. Socially throughout the office I have been there longer and she doesn't realize how integrated I am with the mid-level bros she never crosses path with. She probably perceives her direct value among nobodies to be above me, however she has ties to higher up out of picture senior leaders.

I don't make it a point to put on displays in the office but I'm quickly learning how necessary these games are. She thinks I'm below what I actually am. I usually establish a deep rapport with people early so I believe my early comfort with her is what brought this upon myself (we also knew eachother faintly from school). She easily feels more comfortable around me than anyone and I think it's a flaw in her own personality to beat up on guys that are open with her. A misstep I suppose I took early, but I quite like who I am.

The most senior of our little office clique (whom I am currently heading out to meet for the night) has spoken up about her behavior to me offhandedly as questionable but he is far too junior to ever stand up personally.

I have pointed out with just us 3 upon one of her attacks, deflecting it and looking at him "why is it that she's attacking me constantly?" and he has responded "yea. I don't get it." and we both candidly exited.

[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By basically being more self-secure and communicate more assertively – "maintaining professionalism" can be subjectively anything.

I would explore and utilized psychotherapy to figure our your self-weaknesses and insecurities that lead you to such power struggles in inter-gender relations in the workplace.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Posting pic of the "protege" is not redpill. He adds nothing to the RP example you're trying to convey. I feel like you're making fun of him for his weight even though he appears to be working on that.

[–]Dat_Black_Guy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

good point, probably picked it up from lubeoil

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I doubt that was an actual picture of the dude, but yea I agree.

[–]Glenbert 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm glad to see this post. I've seen way to many people here arguing for conflict avoidance. How many? More than 1 is too many.

[–]myschadenfreude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That wasn't confrontational, it was demanding the self respect you deserved. If you did the same to her you would have rightly called on the carpet for being rude.

It is sad this is so abnormal we have to point it out as the behavior we naturally should do.

[–]Johnny10toes 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Last night I was on the phone with my wife I didn't hear something she said. She repeated but I still dint catch it so she starts yelling. "No! Do not yell at me because I didn't hear you!" We talk a few more minutes, she apologized and this morning I wake up and have this text on my phone.

I'm sorry for snapping at you. I'm gonna blame it on my hormones and the fact that I feel like it is extra hard from me to talk to my husband on all of the phones that we have. It's not your fault and I shouldn't have gotten snappy about it with you....

Then a few I love yous.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funny how women respect you when you first respect yourself.

[–]sundaybrunch11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this! I think you really got to confront people who are not respecting your boundaries. Don't take shit from them, but do so in a firm (i.e., strong framed) and calm manner. You lose if you lose your temper.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 1 point2 points  (36 children)

Saying someones behavior is inappropriate is blue pill, because it implies that you believe that behavior should be constrained by arbitrary societal norms. Im a Paying Customer! is the battle cry of the Amerifag. Professional Bodybuilders always let you work in, cuz their chill fucking bros unlike OP. What happened here was beta posturing. Op's responses imply his latent buttmad.

NonFag Response: "Wow, I only had to ask four times" Smile and laugh Is that your sassy way of asking for cable row? Does your client pay extra for sassy training. Its totally chill, work in your sassy rows.

That's how you talk shit without having a butt-hurt demeanor.

[–]Confluenced 14 points15 points  (12 children)

Putting people in their place is not blue pill. We don't know the tone that she took. True, he could of played it off the way you mentioned. What would of been blue pill is him apologizing.

When it comes to business and money you cannot fuck around. What if you ordered food at a restaurant and they fuck your order up? You gonna give some sly remark. No, you tell them to take it back very courteously. If the server gives you lip, then you are free to take it up. Money, business, these areas require stern reply's.

The Gym is a business and if she treated him that way, imagine other patrons. It's not good for business, so good on OP on putting her in her place.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Putting people in their place is not blue pill. We don't know the tone that she took.

Her tone was derisive and sarcastic, not a playful jab. I don't take sass from women.

[–]Confluenced 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Don't take sass from anyone. GayLubeOil is all butthurt for some reason. You did the right thing.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I think I struck a nerve in him since he's a fitness instructor himself. Shit's hilarious.

[–]jadedspade 3 points4 points  (0 children)

inb4 Tren rage

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 7 points8 points  (18 children)

Not always the best response. Look at the Tom Cruise video. You think a smile and laugh would have been more appropriate? Standing up for yourself isn't posturing.

I expect more from you GLO.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. the whole sassy rows thing would not land as nonchalantly as GLO might intend. It would just make for a very awkward situation. And there's no merit in "holding your frame" when your frame is exactly what turned a small situation into a focus on your cool bravado-- it makes you look full of yourself.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

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[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Feminists are the queens of arbitrary restrictions on behavior. They don't agree

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some girls nowadays will have a complete shit attitude out of the blue with total strangers. Thanks to a feminized environment. It's not even a shit test anymore in these cases. It's somebody that needs to be put in place and internalize that before they are fit as human beings to start mending.

[–]bobjoe177 0 points1 point  (1 child)

this girl im hookin up with has an orbiter who constantly disagrees with whatever i say but whispers his disagreements to her rather than confront me, seems like a bitch sabotage move to me, but i dont wanna bring it up with her cause itll make me look insecure. im defs gonna openly call him out next time it happens.

[–]1walkingthelinux 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Every time he does this ask him to repeat himself. When he refuses, call him out on his cowardice. Then start making out with the girl right in front of him.

Bonus points: Ask him if there are any other girls he worships and secretly wants to fuck that you can meet - so you can fuck them. Tell him that you're going to follow him around and fuck every girl that he regularly comes in contact with; up to and including every fuckable female in his family. Mail him the used condoms so he can masturbate with them.

[–]ExamplePrime 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Video not available for me to watch unfortunately

Anyone got another link?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

[–]ExamplePrime 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–]External12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I like this, but with my luck, what if she was the type to ignore you comments and think she was right still?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pop your ear buds back in, turn your back to her and resume working out. Let her hamster run wild. Your goal is to stand up for yourself, not engage her in the bitch-fest she's likely looking for.

[–]rocketskates84 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think what a lot of these situations come down to is being in control, rather than passively diffusing situations. I have been pondering how to handle certain situations at work and this discussion has given me a lot of food for thought.

[–]asimplescribe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want to go this route you better be able to handle yourself. There are plenty of people out there that are willing to put all of their chips on the table over a minor slight.

[–]marshaldo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The world needs more men who have the balls to be assertive, even if it does appear 'confrontational' to those looking in - not because you're an asshole, but because you're improving others through challenge and revealing truth. Good.

[–]ibtrippindoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Posts like these are why I subscribe to this sub. Beyond some of the misogyny and anger I sometimes encounter here, there is some very solid life advice to be found. Perhaps "be assertive" would be a better title, but the same point was made nonetheless.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what I'm working on right now. I'm an extremely non-confrontational person, and I need to fix it. I internalize negative emotions and become very quiet when angry/upset instead of actually letting people know what's bothering me. I'm not sure, exactly, how to become more assertive, other than realize what I'm doing when it's happening and taking steps to rectify it.

The road to self-actualization is a long one, and it's very difficult to overcome the shit habits that you developed to deal with disappointment and failure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This Tom Cruise video is posted here like every day. I don't understand it. I guess he does a good job embarassing the prankster, but I feel Cruise tries to give the impression that he's cool/calm/collected when he's actually really upset. He just keeps repeating the same lines. If he confronted the guy, and reprimanded him like he did for 15 seconds and then walked away, I'd be much more impressed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, tho the point is he was confronted and he asserted himself insted of bitching out.

[–]Ennpitsu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can anyone confirm if the guy Tom Cruise told off was crying as he was leaving? Because I think he was lol.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brodin has blessed thee with the strength to tell off the Profits of Broki and their attempts to shame your Alpha prowess and swole prayers. Wheymen.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only thing I take issue with is the title. Assertive, your examples are not a man being confrontational but assertive.

[–]HarryPothead69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cyralea, this was truly a WONDERFUL post; I really needed to hear it! Thanks! >:D

[–]poopdemon64 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That guy got rekt. I'm surprised Tom didn't try to put him in time-out.

[–]opencover 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the key is recognizing when you are already in a confrontation. She had already started a confrontation with you, by bothering you so much you had to interrupt yourself. Within a confrontation, one behaves strategically not nicely. (Some think that sociopaths treat every moment of every day as a confrontation.)

In this case it made a lot of sense to throw shit back at her and embarrass her in front of her client. Good job.

[–]reddumpling 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I wonder how do I do this with my customers who just want their way or ask me for help when I am attending to some one else. How do I assert myself in the restaurant environment where sadly most customers think they are the king/queen?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Public service is a whole different ballgame. It's part of your job requirements to take shit from people with a smile on your face.

In most cases a "I'll be happy to help you in just a second after I'm done with this gentleman/lady" with a genuine smile on your face works fine. Make sure to turn your back to them and directly face your original customer.

[–]reddumpling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the protip. An example helps a lot rather than theories. :)

[–]TheOpposingView 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That seems like it demonstrates fear--you had to seize the situation and squeeze hard out of feeling threatened and confronted.

Better reaction is amused mastery of the situation--don't feel embarrassed, don't feel rushed, laugh at it and maybe joke/tease them for being foolish. Remember, they can't hurt you; its like if an ant talked shit to you. Would you get down, look it in the eye, and lecture it?

Your reaction suggests lack of internal control and a lot of anger. Also seems like you go there because it was a woman--more lack of mastery of the emotions.

[–]duckducklandwhale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can extend this to not only on situation that require you to confront a rude person but anything that makes you stand your ground. Like last night we went out with a group of friends and it turns out one of the new girls we had invited out from a previous event knew one of our staple girls and they were doing that chatty shity catch up. Then one of the staple girls was talking shit about some other bitch that she cut off because she was talking to her ex-bf or something. Basically just taking a shit on guys. Most BP bitches will likely appease and try to amplify the situation like "yea total dick move". Though, I recognize they were talking absolute nonsense because they guy was an ex-bf and called them out on that stuff. Not only does it actually stimulate a lively conversation, it shows assertiveness, and I protect my fellow unknown bro. All in all have a spine regardless of who it is. Yes it may lead to escalation (and possibly violence in two escalating heads collide but I honestly think that's rare) but better than being thought meek.

[–]2insickness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You should not hesitate to be confrontational when necessary but at the same time, most situations call for finesse, diplomacy, indirectness and social savvy. Confrontation is a last last resort. If you overplay your hand, it is a sign of weakness.

If you have an employee who generally does pretty well but happens to be doing something wrong, you would not confront him and say, "Don't let it happen again." You would first let him know in a friendly manner that he's doing something wrong.

I had a boss who would ask me to do things in a way that wasn't demanding and it made me feel great about doing it. He would say something like, "Hey can you take a peak at X. I've been noticing some issue with it." He wouldn't say, "X is having problems. Go resolve it."

Everyone has an ego. If you can be sensitive to that, people will like you. One of the most important characteristics of being alpha is being a leader which means getting people to voluntarily follow you. To do that, people first have to like you.

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