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[–]CainPrice 88 points89 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

It's no huge secret that marriage is a bad idea for men. Your wife can divorce you at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. It doesn't matter what your marriage is like on the inside. She doesn't have to fuck you, treat you well, cook, clean, work, or even perform adequate childcare. She just has to not kill or abuse the children. She can cheat on you. None of this matters. She will be awarded primary custody of your children pretty much by default. She will be awarded the house pretty much by default. She will be awarded at least 50% of your assets, usually a little more. And you will have a monthly child support payment taken from your paycheck that far exceeds what it costs to raise the child(ren) each month, as kind of an understood, under the table form of ex-wife support. And in many states, you pay alimony on top of that to further support your ex-wife.

You literally transition from a situation where you can walk away, right now, for any reason or no reason at all, for free, to a situation where walking away costs you your children, wealth, and 20-50% of your net pay each month until all of your children are 26 - but she can walk away at any time.

In this situation, where she suddenly finds herself with all of the power, she subconsciously starts to find you less attractive and more annoying. She can't figure out why she feels this way, because you're working hard to provide for the family and helping out around the house and doing whatever she asks. But she's still not happy with you, so it must mean you suck and aren't good enough and she should stop fucking you. And after a few years of not getting fucked good by you, she starts getting fucked good by someone else. And once you find out, she shrugs and divorces you. And you spend the next two decades paying ex-wife support disguised as something for the child's best interest.

Nobody cares. There's no sense getting riled up about this. Nobody cares.

Just don't get married. Don't give women power over you. It's stupid. Women can't be trusted with power over you. Having power over a man dries the vagina up, and marriage, by its very nature, gives a woman enormous power over you.

[–]red_philosopher 15 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Can't upvote this enough. Marriage is important to the survival of large civilizations, but when marriage is the equivalent of asking men to die, civilization falls.

The only way for you to have children, reasonably, is to become strong, powerful, and fuck married women and cuck the poor saps who fell for the marriage trap.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I have to disagree with your black pill scorched earth solution of cucking other men and destroying marriages (even tho they may be headed to dissolution anyway).

However, in terms of long term civilizational outlook, yeah it’s totally fucked because of this idolatrous religion of leftism (in this case the feminist arm) which misinterprets social dynamics and history, thinking its on the vanguard of “Progress”, but in reality is eroding the foundations of society. Absolutely despicable.

[–]red_philosopher 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Given that 80% of men never successfully reproduce in the first place, it's about as red-pill as it gets. Why fight against reality when you can leverage that knowledge to your advantage?

[–]Liquid_Kool 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you have a study to corroborate your findings? If so I'd like to see it, 80% sounds...off.

[–]red_philosopher 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

The studies should be linked in there. It's closer to 75% but it paints the picture well.

Also, just had a woman admit that she considered cucking her bf just now. Fascinating day.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t see that as any rebuttal to the idea that you shouldn’t interfere with still existing marriages.

[–]red_philosopher 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sexual strategy is amoral. Read the sidebar

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s also not a rebuttal. Yes the mechanics of sexual strategy are amoral. It’s important to understand that sexual strategy will not conform to human moral ideas.

However that doesn’t mean there are not certain lines that it’s unwise or just plain shitty to cross. Destroying marriages is a shitty thing to do in my book, even if they have low odds to begin with. This is not mutually exclusive with an understanding that sexual strategy is rooted in amoral biology.

[–]xkcd_puppy 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As the game advances, they will realize this, that men are choosing to remain single rather than get married. They will seek to change the rules again. Then they will implement an annual tax on single men over age 25.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually where I live such tax exist for every single wealthy person regardless of sex. You get significant tax cut if you end up living in a couple.

But as there are overall wealthy men in that situation than women, it is really a tax against men. I know mens tat hesitate to live their girlfriend out of the tax difference alone and all the saving you get by sharing the cost on many things.

Being independant has a significant cost. I make more than most people in my country but because I'am single, the difference is much narrower than what they raw income would say. A share is taken by the state, another share is that many things can be buy by 2 persons rather than 1.

[–]TheLongerCon 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Is the solution simply to find a high earning wife?

[–]CainPrice 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What part of "don't get married" was unclear?

No. Do not find a high earning wife. Just don't get married.

[–]markinsinz7 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea but then again ... family courts are not known for logic actions

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women pay alimony 3% of the time.

Good fucking luck my dude.

[–]kittyclaw200 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

when she pops out a kid she will most likely stop working. You still lose. You might argue that she has to keep working because the husband doesn't make enough. Would a smart high earning chick have married a guy who couldn't support the family? No (see hypergamy)

[–]TriggeringEveryone 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

high earning wife

Yeah goy, marry some bitch in her late 30s with a career and a double or triple digit N. She'll be paying you after the marriage breaks up!

[–]TheLongerCon 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cringey anti-semitism abside, why do you think they're no women making good money in their twenties.

One of the hottest girls I've dated was a dental student who I meet when she was 23.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This should be stickied on the front page.

[–]AreOut -4 points-3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

In this situation, where she suddenly finds herself with all of the power, she subconsciously starts to find you less attractive and more annoying.

Wrong, you were unattractive and annoying to her from the beginning. You had ALIMONY written on your forehead all the time, she just waited for the right moment.

[–]CainPrice 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Let's not be crazy with internet rage paranoia here.

Women do not intentionally marry guys they don't want to be with, intending to divorce them for cash in the future. Maybe an extremely small segment of psychologically unwell, crazy women.

But the other 99.9999 percent of the time a woman divorces a man, it wasn't some wicked mercenary plan to trick a chump and profit. It's what she thought she wanted, but then it didn't work out to be what she imagined, and she gets money for calling it quits, so no need to fight that hard for the marriage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is recognized that about 5% of mens and women have real heavy psychological problems that make them a nightmare for other people. By that I mean people that will destroy you and your life and are extremely detrimental to your own well being. And they have the power to make you part of that 5% if you stay too long with them.

It is safe to extend that percentage a bit to people that while on that end of the spectrum are not that nice overall. So maybe you get like 10-20% of people that shall be avoided.

Now despite everything said there, most people already in LTR relation stay together forever (a short majority) while some go back and back again on the relational market.

So if you are in the market too, you need to understand that out of the available womens and mens, there an over representation of people with significant psychological problem.

If say you shall avoid 10-20% of the overall population ideally, likely this is more like 20-50% of the people out there on the relational market due to the fact they are back there much more often than the nice psychologically healthy people.

Also to be totally honest with oneself, if you found yourself repeatingly on the market, it can be you got back luck repeatly or it could be you are actually the problem too. And when your next girlfriend realise, then she'll want to leave you rightly so.

So while I agree with you that overall the likelyness of all of that shall be in theory low, both the extremely negative outcome on one side and the over representation of such cases among the people available on the market mean that you have to take precautions.

[–]red_philosopher -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women do not intentionally marry guys they don't want to be with, intending to divorce them for cash in the future.

It actually happens way more often than you'd like to think. The biggest weakness of the red-pill ideology is that many new to the RP start to believe that women aren't capable of mind-blowing, long-term, selfish, plans. It may evolve moment-to-moment, but you MUST remember that women are human. That means they are grossly intelligent, guileful, and capable of remarkable feats of manipulation.

The thing is, it may very well be exactly as you described, but that's just the fucking surface. Ultimately, she is aware that she can get married and bow out at anytime with little to no penalty, and on top of that get remunerated for doing it. She will say yes, enthusiastically, if a man who is even remotely capable and attractive asks her, knowing that she's covered even if it goes to hell. Even if SHE MAKES IT GO TO HELL. She's not some simpleton who is unaware of the reality that has been forged.

And when people know that, they agree readily knowing full well that they will be well-off, regardless of intent. If that's not intentionally marrying for cash, I don't know what else is.

[–]AreOut -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

bro, maybe women don't know what they want but they sure know what they don't want

and they DO marry guys they don't want only because "better" guys aren't available to her, and they DO have a plan to divorce him sooner or later, of course not every woman is like that but there is more and more of them, my ex failed to marry me so she found a beta bux who she later divorced, I knew her very well and I could tell you straight away it was her plan from the beginning, some of her friends did the same to other men

[–]Da_RectumWrecker17 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Our society is declining so quickly. Things are looking so grim for the traditional family. Why would I ever want to get married or have children with someone I'm in a relationship with? It seems like the only option is to find a beautiful woman to accept a surrogate pregnancy from you, and to take the child on your own once it is born.

[–]Platos_slow_brother 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems like the only option is to find a beautiful woman to accept a surrogate pregnancy from you, and to take the child on your own once it is born.

When you examine cost and risk of bad financial outcomes, for men above a certain wealth and income level, this route is certainly the less costly and risky one, as against the alternative of marriage and/or joint parental liability for maintaining the kids. Nannies would be far cheaper than alimony, asset division, and child support payments.

[–]red_philosopher 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The downfall of civilization always coincides with men seeking immediate gratification over the fulfilling gratification of hard work and perseverance. It so happens that things will not change for as long as men act like children.

The declining birth rate in all western civilizations is the canary in the coal mine. Destroying men for doing what is required to sustain the human population will always result in the societies we live in today. A Brave New World is incoming, who knew?

[–]1durtyknees -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It so happens that things will not change for as long as men act like children.

Sadly, there're just not enough actual adults to go around these days. Childish people only raise perpetual-children.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is some sad sad shit. Growing up, I could never have imagined I'd find myself in a situation like this.

All my close buddies are married or about to be. I'm the lone hold out. Unfortunately, for most men, there comes a point where the biology overrides the logic to where men would get married to have access to guranteed pussy and try to convince themselves that its Love.

Love, or strong attachment is a very rare emotion that's bred through mutual sacrifice, understanding, and respect. 99% of the time it's not love. Its lust. While I'm happy I've been able to hold out so far, it's kind of sad seeing how things really are, completely fucked. Its like losing your innocence for the second time. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

men would get married to have access to guranteed pussy and try to convince themselves that its Love.

What's funny (and I always warn my friends) is that no man has ever said "wow my sex life has improved now that we're married!"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man they know it's TRUE but it still doesn't matter. The married ones still try to convince the unmarried to settle down.

I gotta hand it to the feminist-capitalist-libertard overlords. They've done a damn good job infusing the culture with this blue pill crap that even the men are indoctrinated, though we're the ones being used. Playing off of our inbuilt sacrifice instinct towards weaker beings. Its fucking genius. You gotta not only be able to see the truth though, you gotta accept it too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a close friend, really nice and reliable guy. Now he is married and with a baby. So the wife stop working (she resigned), she now need money for reconversion to get a job that get her far less money. And while she actually doesn't work and he is working full time, when she spent 1 week for a training for the next job, he had to get 1 week of vacation to help her there.

The guy is near burn out.

I am sad for him.

[–]politeAndLevelHed 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In my opinion there's often a positive of an older man - younger woman dynamic. It means that the man will always have that edge in experience and helps the man retain some "power". Sure, the woman can always be right, except when the man puts his foot down, which if done through confidence rather than as a means of control, will ultimately be respected.

You have to approach a marriage as "equals" to a large extent - that means no single person holds all the power. A guy with all the power looks abusive. A girl with all the power looks bored. Neither is a relationship that will be sustained. A sustainable relationship requires both parties to be committed to it and willing to work towards it.

I've heard others say "you know the one to marry is the one you can't live without". I'm not so sure. That feels more like desperation to me. I feel like you know they are right to marry when you've taken the time to see how committed they are to you. When they've had plenty of chances to run and they didn't - you've got a future.

"If you love it set it free" they say - and I do believe in this. Not that you just go flaccid and stop caring - but that you don't hold on with a death grip of "need". It's unattractive to be "needed". Everybody wants to be "wanted" - there's a massive gulf between being "needed" and "wanted".

You can never afford to view a marriage as some kind of "finders, keepers" arrangement. That's never going to work. It doesn't matter what the piece of paper says, and it sure doesn't matter what anybody said at a wedding, because a wedding is just an emotional show, it is not a foundation for lasting anything.

A marriage is best for offering children a stable parenting couple. So it has its purpose for society and for the children. The point is don't rush into a marriage. It's not the answer to any relationship issues. It's not a relationship guarantee.

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[–]xrKles 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why is there so much hate against the traditional family in this sub? Don’t get married to a hoe, very simple.

And only get married if you want children. Children are best raised in a traditional family.. this is statistically proven.

[–]markinsinz7 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's no hate for the traditional family. In fact that's what most of them want. In fact !!!! If the laws changed to favourable position for me a shit ton of mgtows and other kinds of what-nots would be lining up to marry whatever women they can.

Very few men don't marry at all for the purposes of not marrying a hoe because unless you are able to verify a woman's track record - these days all of them are pretty much hoes.

Believe me every guy here once believed in unicorns - shit most still hold out on hope, even still others give up and decide wifing up the hoe is better than loneliness.

When I see Chads lining up to marry the hoes what can you really expect...

[–]grewapair 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter if she's not a hoe, one of her friends will be, and it's all over for you. It was for my dad.

Do not get married, do not have kids, and you're assured a happy life if you want one.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol dude you’re completely misreading the thread. It’s not hate for the traditional family. It’s hate for the divorce laws that incentivize women to blow up marriages when another dick comes along and she’s bored with hubby. Hamster rationalizes, she gets new dick plus cash and prizes, and her girlfriends and the legal system cheerlead her the whole way.

What man in his right mind would enter this arrangement? We live in the era of tinder, Ashley Madison, and many other dating apps and social media which gives women a constant supply of cock buffet on offer. The laws disincentivize marriage dude. That’s what the hate is for. Because traditional marriage is gradually going extinct in the name of “Progress”. Complete opposite of your misread lol.

[–]xrKles 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea. I get it now. Have divorce laws ever really changed over the years? Or is it the publics perception of it that has changed?

I believe in the past when most were married and wanted to have a family, if a woman wanted a divorce they were told by others to “work it out” and a woman who got a divorce was shunned. Society had different values.

I come from a traditional family / culture, where divorce is the absolutely the last thing you should do. And if a women tried to get a divorce, she would get a bad rep. I don’t know anyone in my immediate or extended family that has gotten a divorce. (Except for a distant cousin.. who married an american thot that robbed his house while he was a way...took his fine ass gun collection too).

I feel like the long term relationship TRP gives is very flawed. If you are just wanting casual sex and to sleep with a bunch of women.. its gold. Yes All women are the same in the same way all fish are the same, if you drop food in its tank the fish will always eat even if its full. But the girl or guy won’t always trade up, we have the ability to control ourselves. I don’t really know where i’m going with this, but point is not to marry garbage.

Most girls you find in the club, or on tinder, etc.. are probably trash.. never get into an LTR with them.

It becoming harder, i agree, to find a woman that isn’t like that, but its possible. I’ve never used tinder, or other dating apps, and i don’t use any social media anymore. So i’m unfamiliar with what goes on there. Sorry for the rushed ending, forgot where i was going with this and i gotta get to work.

[–]Houston922 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro i had a 3 years relationship with the most loving girl in the world. I got cheated on twice and she stopped giving me respect for no real reason other than me being more needy than normal(not really that much more..) and having a little bad time lasting two weeks - so less time focusing on her and more on my passions. Plus some manipulative girl friends around her and living together when we weren't really ready. She always had an exit strategy even when she was the most loving creature of the world. You believe what you want to believe until reality kicks your ass. I still don't believe in the reality i am living right now, but i just woke up. What they say here is fucking true, because we are animals and we need super structures to obey rationality. Of course some women are less prone to cheating etc., but still you never know until it's too late. And you don't want to be a 40-50 years old depressed and with no joy for life left

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong with a traditional family.

But marriage? Hell fucking no.

Before you say it, there's nothing traditional about what's become of marriage.

[–]Herdsengineers 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

especially today, marriage only works with a traditional minded woman that wants to accept a man's sovereignty over her in the marriage. i wouldn't have believed they were out there until i met one.

the flipside is such a woman only wants to submit herself to a man she perceives as a true alpha, and she'll still test the man she submits to in order to check if he really is that alpha, even after marriage. if you as the man don't maintain alpha status, it will lead to problems. if you do, though, it will be a wonderful marriage.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But skip the marriage part.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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