Red Pill TheoryThe American Dream Is Every Man’s Nightmare (returnofkings.com)

submitted by Modredpillschool

[–]FiveRows 113 points114 points  (6 children)

Today's American Dream:

  • Settling down with a girl that has been around the block more times than the ice cream truck.
  • House, mortgage, cars, and kids you can't even begin to afford.
  • 60-hour work weeks with little time for sleep. Perpetually tired.
  • Under so much financial and marital pressure that you become the ultimate grovelling yes-man at the workplace. This, of course, causes problems for your colleagues.
  • Completely under the thumb of both your employer and wife. Your options appear non-existent.
  • Heart problems beginning in your 40's, since you are always stressed and don't have time to sleep, exercise, or eat well.
  • Your wife divorces you and leaves you for another man, taking (at least) half your assets.
  • You find yourself an amorphous blob of a man, alone, in large debt, and in poor health. Years, or even decades, appear to have been flushed down the toilet.

What the ever-loving fuck has happened to our gender? All of this for duty sex every one or two weeks, if you're lucky? WTF indeed.

[–]Robdogx9001 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Men are always the ones held responsible when something goes wrong. "Why aren't there enough women working in X? Because Men..." Every new movement is just more ways to blame straight men for something.

[–]Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I suspect that the reason why America's economy was thriving in the Don Draper era had much to do with the fact that working men were treated with much more respect. By women, by fellow men, by society at large. We'd just come off the one-two punch of the Great Depression and WW2, so suffice to say, Americans had seen true poverty in their lifetimes and properly understood how much a good working man was worth. So, being a working man living out this "American dream" was actually more of a legitimate dream.

Now we're in the era where everyone in the Western world is relatively happy and comfortable, so women are working their asses off making sure that society realigns men as being disposable grunts who exist purely to fuel womens' happiness.

And as we can see by declining marriage and childbirths rates, men are responding to this incentive structure accordingly by dropping out of the game.

[–]Senior ContributorRedPope 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Don't blame women for society thinking men are disposable. That concept is prehistoric. It doesn't take 100 men to impregnate 100 women. Never has. The tribe can risk losing 25 men on a dangerous hunt or raid. It might even prove beneficial. Among primates, deliberately disposing of "excess" males is standard practice.

You note that your idolized working men were the survivors of WW2 and the Great Depression. Throw WW1 in the mix too, and what do you have? Three generations in a row where a significant number of men were killed, crippled, or otherwise disposed.

Supply and demand used to favor the men. Women had to prove their loyalty, homemaking skills, and moral character to secure a quality mate from the pool of survivors. Those days are gone.

We are living in the greatest and longest era of peace and prosperity our species has ever known. The supply of good men is at its peak. Simple economics. Wives and employers alike are offering less and demanding more.

[–]MakeMoneyNotWar 45 points46 points  (8 children)

That $1,400 per month mortgage payment is too low. Property tax and homeowners insurance adds $300-$500 to that monthly payment.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Exactly what I was thinking. Didn't include mechanical/plumbing system repair as that pops up as well.

[–]rorrr 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Correct. According to Zillow, your total monthly payment will be around $1,850 - 1,900 (NY, NJ) and $1,500 - $1,600 (CA), depending on the area.

And that's assuming you have a good credit score. US average FICO is 689.

Though if you're 25-34, the average FICO is 655. So yeah, instantly add half a percent to your mortgage rate.

[–]maximumutility 41 points42 points  (5 children)

Seeing this while growing up caused me to want a future of no kids or wife, making money for myself and having meaningless sex with women who are used to that and pursuing an altogether selfish existence.

I want this because it seems to be my best option, even though I realize how destructive this mindset could be if widely adopted. But what else am I to do other than to make the best with what I expect the real world to offer?

[–]sushisection 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Right? Except somewhere deep down in me, I want to raise a child someday. Fuck.

[–]mithridates1 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I know, right? This is the biggest struggle. I would have no problem letting women go if the prospect of children weren't involved, but oneitis creeps up when I start to think that this woman is the best one available to have children with.

[–]sushisection 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm seriously thinking about grabbing a pakistani chick and wifing her. (I'm pakistani btw, keeping it in the tribe). Arranged marriages don't sound too bad when western girls aren't fit for the job

[–]mithridates1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Grab me one while you're at it.

[–]1Mikesapien 1 point2 points  (0 children)


My Dad is a grade-A, certified, beta-male chump. After 20 years of marriage, my mother divorced him and kept the house, the car, my sister, and I. He lives on Social Security checks in a shanty on the other side of town. He's also disabled, diabetic, and totally out of shape.

I watched this drama unfold slowly over the last couple decades and realized "This is me. This is what happens to me if I do what society tells me."

[–]2Overkillengine 30 points31 points  (11 children)

Your mantra becomes that of Boxer the horse, in Orwell’s Animal Farm—“I will work harder.”

And then she leaves you/trades up after you overwork yourself into poor health trying to pay for it all.

[–]bringer_of_fight 18 points19 points  (6 children)

Yea, the author neglected to mention that even if you are successful with all this, the chance of divorce destroying it all is too great to ignore.

[–]ButterMyBiscuit 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Boxer worked himself to death for the "greater good", and then was double crossed and slaughtered so the pigs could get whiskey. That's perfect allegory.

[–]lord_of_vader 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My heart aches for Boxer every time I read that book. I loved him the most out of all the characters; Orwell really hit the nail on the fucking head with that allegory.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Boxer worked himself to death for the "greater good", and then was double crossed and slaughtered so the pigs could get whiskey. That's perfect allegory.

Well, Boxer was loved and respected by the other animals. To be perfect, he'd have to be blamed and despised.

[–]2Overkillengine 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He was valued as long as he could work (provide) and disposed of the moment he could not.

[–]FaithfulJinn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even if you win the rat race you're still a rat.

[–]2johnnight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The harder you work, the larger the assets to loot.

[–]busior 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yup while it's her who gets older and older every year. It's all because of marriage. Don't get married and don't work harder than you want to. Getting a pussy doesn't require working full time and giving up half your assets

[–]cooledcannon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

At least you didnt become glue though

[–]1Mikesapien 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In this metaphor, that's what divorce is - the Glue Factory.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (4 children)

I am going to send this to all my married friends.

Over the years, I’ve noticed that this dream is not important to American men. Most guys are content to get the most bang for their buck, whether that means living in an apartment complex, renting a room from a friend, or buying a cheap piece of land in the country. In over forty years, I never met a man that actually dreamed of owning a home in the suburbs.

Actually I live in suburbia, it's a long story how I got and remain here, and I can attest that there are many Blue Pill married guys who believe that this is indeed their dream: their wives say so, their mothers say so, their sisters say so, and they say so to each other.

[–]surgeon_general 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I've lived in the New York City suburbs basically my whole life, and I stay here by choice. I own a home here and I love it. I'm 37 and never married. I don't even know what the author is implying that I'm missing out on.

Actually, I think he's completely bugging by saying "in over forty years, I never met a man that actually dreamed of owning a home in the suburbs." That sounds like a pretty common dream to me.

[–]Glenbert 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In over forty years, I never met a man that actually dreamed of owning a home in the suburbs.

Seriously, has this guy lived his entire life in some beatnik coffee house? You talk to just about anyone from any non-gentrified part of any city in America and they all want out.

Like I said, this is an article for trust fund babies.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I concur. The only problem I see with that is that the way to work (or passtime activities) tends to be longer, but otherwise living in an area with lots of greens and fewer (but not too few) persons per square mile is a lot more appealing than living in the city.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 14 points15 points  (17 children)

The cost of an average American home is $337,300

So how will you afford this?

HAH. Homes in my city are double that, single detached house triple. I'd sell my left testicle to get a home that cheap.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Get out of the city. 1300 SF at 54k. Mortgage is cheaper than my old car payment.

[–]rorrr 2 points3 points  (12 children)

SF and San Jose are actually the most expensive areas in the country at the moment. Santa Cruz is #3.



[–]averagecycle 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think he meant square foot

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Yes, I followed the advice of "Get out of the city" with advice to move to San Francisco. What is the general unit of measure when discussing a house?

[–]iseeyou1312 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I thought 1300 SF was some suburb in Francisco. However I'm not American so I use the metric system like the rest of the world.

[–]rorrr -4 points-3 points  (8 children)

Maybe you should learn capitalization and abbreviation rules.


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

It's only the most common abbreviation used when discussing home, pardon the missing periods. I didn't think there would be a dolt here who couldn't figure it out given the context of the sentence.

[–]rorrr -1 points0 points  (5 children)

It's only the most common abbreviation

No, it's not. Just checked on craigslist - sq.ft. is 5 times more common than SF.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The unit, not that particular abbreviation, I miss spoke. I am an engineer in the facilities engineering industry, we use "SF" frequently when discussing square feet. No one wants to type ft2 every time and most are bright enough to understand it in context. Don't go all abbreviation nazi to cover your own mistake and hilarious time wasted finding a source.

[–]rorrr 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Except it wasn't my mistake. It was you who doesn't know how to abbreviate things, and then backpedals when shown evidence.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Yes, I followed the advice of "Get out of the city" with advice to move to San Francisco. What is the general unit of measure when discussing a house?

Go ahead and loop that one for yourself champ.

[–]cooledcannon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I know it was hyperbole, but thats a negative mentality. Part of your body is worth far more than a few hundred thousand dollars. Red Pill thinking and a bit of hustling will get you enough money you need. Abundance and a positive mindset is much better than a broke one.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Preaching to the converted. I've got 6 figures in the bank, but homes are stupidly overpriced here. Where there's a will though, there's a way.

[–]1AreYouAware_ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

There are some real advantages and opportunities to owning property, but if the only thing you're doing with it is using it for shelter and hoping it appreciates enough to flip, then your in for a really bad time.

One other thing to keep in mind is that once you add up all the interest on the loan, you may end up paying double the sticker price at the end of 30 years.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Industry and unions built the middle class. due to globalist trade policies and technological advancements neither exist anymore. I would like kids and a nice house in a cool neighborhood, but i don't think i will ever be financially capable of doing so. having the standard of living that my parents and grandparents seems like a pipe dream.

[–][deleted] 20 points20 points

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[–]1whatsazipper 10 points11 points  (0 children)

We're meant to move, but now we mostly sit down (cars, computers, suburban life). Even if you factor in regular gym time, we're still mostly sitting too much. It has a negative impact on our lives.

[–]lemonparty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

apartments in big cities can be every bit as expensive as a house in the burbs, where I'm at a one room loft in hipsterville downtown runs double what a modest 3b house way out on the fringe does

the cities also have higher taxes and more social services (to pay for single mom and school lunches for her litter) -- you can't really escape paying for our cultural rot, it's pervasive

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Or you can not live in the city and have the outdoors to exercise. You know, forest trails, lakes, rivers.

[–]vaker[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The worst thing about the house in the suburbs is the tendency to sit around getting fat

That's not necessarily true. You mow the lawn, trim the hedges, walk the dog, all good cardio if you push it a bit. It's a question of attitude.

[–]TheD_ 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Not to mention the real return on real estate is 1% per year, whereas, the US stock market over the last 100 is ~7% (going back 100 years is arbitrary demarcation fully intent to bias whomever reads this). I'm far better off working my 9-5, living like a scumbag, and dumping the majority of my disposable income into S&P 500 companies.

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's also 7% going back to 1950s

but realize that your return may be negative for a whole decade until another decade gives you amazing returns

2000s have been SHIT for investing, although 2010 decade might be amazing

[–]TangoAlphaBravo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"This desire—to own a suburban home—is a female one. In short, it’s her American dream. While there are some exceptions to this rule (like 1%), this is by and large the case. American women dream of a future life in an affluent suburb. This raises some questions that all American men, particularly younger ones, should consider. "

[–]fuckforce5 5 points6 points  (19 children)

Even if you leave the woman out of this, I still think its a joke to get sucked into buying a house as a primary residence.

I could certainly pay a 1400/mo mortgage on my own, but around here that would put me out in the sticks. I would much rather split 3000/mo for my two bedroom high rise with a roommate that I never see, and walk to all the bars.

On top of that, I'm not pressured to trade in the 2 seat sports car for a fucking suv, or getting nagged on about my bike.

The fact of the matter is, I think for some guys my age its becoming more of a selfish lifestyle, which I completely support.

The only thing that some people women give me shit about is having a roommate. "Oh fuckforce5, roommates are for kids in college." That's fine. I'll take the stigma of having a roommate and keep the high rise, and my set costs, along with every penny after that being disposable.

[–]drallcom3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You can earn so much more money if you're not tied down by a house.

[–]watersign 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so true. wonder what the radfem cunts have to say about this . as someone who is on his way to making enough to live the america dream ..i can say i prety much have no interest in it anymore. the women who are worthy of child bearing all shack up with dudes who make alot more than i ever will and quite frankly..todays 'basic bitch' isnt good for anything other then dumping a load into.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would honestly like a fully paid off smaller house in a quiet neighborhood with a basement or garage big enough to hold my personal gym equipment (power rack, bench press, mirrors, mats for deadlifts).

Having room for my hobbies, a backyard for BBQs, nice big TV with surround sound for movies and games, yet small enough not to be a slave in keeping it up.

The idea of having a wife in there with me kinda fucks all that up as "we need more space for my crap so why don't you get rid of all this stuff, honey"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If I ever get a house, every room will be a 'man cave'. Except it won't be called a 'man cave'. It will be called 'a room'.

The garage will be an auto repair and maintenence station. The living room will be filled with video games. The home office will have the state of the art computer for running simulations, torrents, side projects, and a server for other projects. There will be a clean room in the basement as well as a lab. There will also be another sound proof room for my music. The basement will also host a shooting range. The bedroom will be a spare storage for my firearms and other equipment. The walls will be decorated with maps, scheduals, and relevent reference information. And in the backyard there will be a forest to practice survival skills.

Everything in my house will have a purpose. I will not stand to have redundant doilies and fluffy pillows and useless crap I don't need and only bought for the sake of buying.

But I'm not even at that stage yet. I'm still renting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's pretty awesome owning a home by yourself. I own an old farmhouse with a few acres of land. The Appalachian Trail is a 20 minute walk through forest in the national park behind me.

If I could do it over again, I'd buy more land and build a smaller, more functional house out of cob. Though I do have enough land as it is to be totally self sufficient if I chose to do so.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

This article seems hyper focused on the math of providing a house, home, and cars for a family.

If you don't want any of those things, why would you buy them? Seriously?!?

Why is it that return of kings constantly tells men that they have the power in the relationships, but then bitches about "having" to buy a home for a woman?

You don't have to buy anything you don't want!

You want to justify it by saying you want to make her happy, or it's better for you both in the long run. Fuck that.

If it's your money, it's your decision.

Just for the other side though, if you are both working and both contributing, then you might actually have to compromise. At that point, look at it as a business partnership.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's a commentary on modern American families, a cautionary tale, not an instruction manual. You seem to have missed the entire point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

A cautionary tale about what exactly? The fact that you have convinced yourself that providing for your women, and giving her what she wants, should always lead to a satisfying relationship?

You could give a woman everything, house, car, money, and she might still cheat on you with the hot gardener.

I might have missed the point because I don't think my entire life should lead to someone else's happiness. I believe it should be a split, and she should help me as much as I help her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make zero sense and sound like a caricature of what people think trpers sound like. You have so completely and oppositely misread what I said, and the author of the blog in question, I have to assume you're incapable of having a conversation with.

[–][deleted] 8 points8 points

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[–]iopq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, but as you can see from San Francisco rent rates this is not sustainable. Everyone wants to get the high salaries in the city, but not everyone can afford $3000 rents. Then again, this is because the government doesn't allow you to just endlessly build skyscrapers to fit all the residents.

[–]TangoAlphaBravo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that article, excellent.


That guy writes a lot about the American Dream, I reckon you will like it.

[–]8n0n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The cost of an 'average'

Could we have ROK re do the article with median figures, the average is skewed by the million dollar plus mansions and apartments which throws out the calculated figures in this article.

As linked on that article: https://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/uspricemon.pdf

Period Median Average Jan 2014 $269,800 $337,300


In before grammar nazi (or similar terms); I agree with the article but think we should try and present such as factually as possible to ensure we are not discredited with such views in future.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm living the American Dream, and it's pretty great. It's only a nightmare if you're poor, because it's expensive as fuck. But if you earn a solid 6 figures (and aren't in SF/NYC), it's fun.

I have a big garage to weld and saw shit in. I have a home gym, a library, a music studio, a gun room, and a theater. Having a guest room is awesome. I grow veggies in my back yard. I throw cookouts on my deck. I love stocking my larder and prepping for the apocalypse. My kids enjoy their swingset and running amok. My wife handles the cleaning and landscaping, so there is literally no downside for me.

Now, if I were single, would I have all this shit? Fuck no. I'd spend the money on trips, reinvest more into my business, and piss more away on dumb shit that is just as meaningless.

Calling it a nightmare is fucking stupid, though.

[–]Cyrusk4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Like a lot of RoK posts this one is too heavy on the blame women angle. It's a man's choice to make these terrible decisions. So, take some fucking responsibility. Even a wife who you're not into is not your wife's fault, it's your fault for picking her.

It's also fine to want a house and a family. This was called the "American dream" only when it works. Make a shit ton of money and then dump it all into a house that's fully paid off. Find a woman who's not materialistic and have a great life with your family.

But don't sabotage your existence because of pressure to conform to society.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

This article reads like a child not wanting to grow up. There are plenty of reasons not to buy a house or have kids. Wanting to rent a buddies room or sit on your college couch arent reasons but distractions. Whats gonna happen when you're 30? 40? 60? Same couch same room? Are you still gonna drive that beater with 500k miles? There are upkeep costs to life and while I applaud the critique of consumerism lets be realistic in our calculations. And that mortgage cost isnt so much more, and can be less, than renting so its not a wasted 1400 a month but a gain or loss of a few hundred a month over the short term alternative and a large gain in the long term (note. This assumes money saved by renting over buying is not reinvested in the market but spent. Renting beats buying every time when you reinvest the difference)

As an aside, there is no reason most americans should ever reach the dream. Thats why its a dream. Spending 75k post tax when the average is 50 pretax isnt that bad for a dream.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This assumes money saved by renting over buying is not reinvested in the market but spent. Renting beats buying every time when you reinvest the difference

This should be the top comment. Purchasing real estate (assuming you don't get hamstrung into an inequitable deal) is really nothing more than a low yield savings plan that is usually a step or two above just hoarding cash under your mattress. People trotting out all this bullshit about "equity" and what not. Just use the money to invest or start up a bus iness. Then, buy the house for cash later when the cost only represents a fraction of your net worth.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you're focusing on the specifics instead of the concept. I agree with everything you've said, especially on renting AND investing versus buying, but the point of the author, or at least what should have been his point, is that the pressure to "grow up", as you put it, usually boils down to doing shit that is neither responsible nor beneficial to you, but simply being a revenue stream for a woman. The goal is to take control of your financial destiny to ends that you desire. That may be wealth accumulation or comfort or isolation or ridiculous toys. The details of the end desire is immaterial, taking charge and bringing it about is the key though.

As an aside: not enough people seem willing to accept the fact that renting and investing is nearly always superior to buying. Buying is not a good investment mathematically. I think the reason the perception persists is because people typically rent in the city, where property value is very high, but then look to buy in the 'burbs where property value is comparatively dirt cheap. They compare different markets. Two houses (or condos) in the same area will be cheaper to rent than buy and over any 30 years in history, that difference invested in a mutual fund will be greater than the equity of the paid off house. But most people are super irresponsible, so buying a house might be the best investment, psychologically. Most people don't have the self-discipline to put that 18% of rent into an investment account every month, but they do have the self-discipline to pay their mortgage, because, well, otherwise they'll get kicked out and lose everything they've put in. It's a forced savings account, which is probably best for a lot of people.

[–]Glenbert -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Exactly. This is a bunch of YOLO bullshit.

[–]SquattingOats 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is where RP loses power. Lots of wowisme in here. If you aren't making 6 figures that's a problem you need to fix.

Frankly I DO want a nice house with a yard. It's a much better experience than an apartment.

[–]MrMagwitch 0 points1 point  (0 children)


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I sure as hell don't want that currently at 25 years old, as I want to be open for moving or taking whatever great opportunities that I can. I don't want to be tied down right now in my life. But I know I'll want a house, a yard and a dog ten years down the road.

I didn't grow up in the burbs or a rural area, but I'm totally leaning towards moving to the latter later in life.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK I get the point but is this 4.3% interest rate for mortgage in US real or pure fiction? Here you pay maybe 2% for a 10 year mortgage and if you want to go risky you can get below 1% (adjusted every 3 month).

Meaning the price for a house per month would be half or less of $1400. Not to mention I pay more than that for rent now (but not US).

[–]NillaThunda -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

I get what he is saying, but I make a lot more than "the average american." Granted, the home I want is only $350k in Narnia, the points made here only work if one is not successful.

The cost of kids is also a joke. Any man who does not want his bloodline to continue should not have kids anyway. I did not put the time and effort into creating respect for my name to not have an heir.

Having a family, owning a home, having my own car, having a boat, and living "the American Dream" are all things I want. Are they free? No. the real issue is people think they are entitled to "the American Dream," which is a whole other issue.

Edit: I get the divorce thing and cannot join this argument because I know nothing about it seeing as I have never been married.

[–]TangoAlphaBravo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Read the article again, you did not grap the esence of it.

[–]Glenbert -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Well, I read it twice.

You take your typical self-centered rad fem rant, add some math to it and you have this piece.

[–]ohsweetword -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I'd like this a lot more if it wasn't full of memes.