Rant/Ventingnew members, this is fundamental (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by projectself

This is place is getting silly.. it almost seems there are more new members than established members. And it really seems that many of our new members are instant experts after reading a few posts on the internet who then go on to post and post ad nauseum and get tons of things wrong.

Stop doing that.

I am just going to talk about a simple fundamental topic. an essential core of red pill. she doesn't love you the way you expect her to. she is incapable of that, and it is not reasonable for you to expect it.

All our lives, we were told someone will love you for you. That's a lie. You certainly can find love, tons of it, passionate love, nurturing love, forgiving love, and you can find it over and over again. But what you cannot find, and what does not exist is unconditional love. She does not love you for you, and she never will or can. She loves you for how you make her feel.

She loves you because of how other people in the room look at her when she is with you. She loves you because you are strong when she needs to yield and recharge. She loves you for the entertainment you bring, guitar, jokes, stories. She loves you for the security you bring, financial security, emotional security, physical security.

Relationships are work, everyone knows that. But the bullshit is that we were told the "work" is more communication, more understanding. t is not, it is more masculinity, it is more strength. She brings nurturing love to the table, a deeply feminine energy; that means you have to damn well bring the masculine energy to match it.

There is a balance, and if you act in a feminine way, if you regard the relationship as more important than she does; she will grow in masculinity to offset your weakness. And she will resent you for it. Be the 100 year oak tree in her life, be the strength and let her be woman. She will shower you in love. But you have to do the work. You do not have to do it perfectly, you just have to do it.

[–]ModMachiavellianRed 97 points98 points  (44 children)

My ban finger is itching to kick out some trolls/idiots/people who don't get it but insist on commenting with asinine trite in thread after thread. There's a lot of valid discussion going on, it's not as bad as OP makes it sound, but yes, there's more noise than I find personally tolerable.

I usually just remove bad threads/comments, but these people are normally repeat offenders (repeatedly contribute little of value because they're too eager to SPEAK rather than LISTEN/READ) and as such, warrant banning for bringing down the general quality of the sub.

If you see someone consistently posting crap don't hesitate to PM me their user history. If they refuse to lurk, I'll enforce it, and then if they make a new account the bot will stonewall them for being on a fresh account so they can't just come back and continue posting trite. The bot is an absolute asshole but it serves its function well and I thank it for lightening our already heavy load.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbicepsblastingstud 33 points34 points  (25 children)

I think it'd be far more helpful to restrict submission of new posts.

What does a newbie really need to post about? If they have questions, we have r/asktrp for that.

[–]1mcdehuevo 29 points30 points  (14 children)

Agreed. You should have to have been a subscriber for at least 90 days before submitting a thread.

[–]Josh_The_Boss 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Suggested literally this the other day and got downvoted haha.

But it's a solid idea. Too bad mods don't have the same control as some old forum mods, like regulating how many posts they need to read to earn commenting privileges, etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It sounds like a good idea but it makes more sense to just police the community more stringently. If Red Pill was really so strange it wouldn't need to be satirized with absurd caricatures that insist on ripping everything out of context and then playing it up to 11 on absurdity.

But I do also genuinely think the community ended up attracting the exact kind of PUA hate / everything is someone's fault but mine and I'm just the one catching all the flak / ectectect types who think that by merit of a loosely comparable foundation that we must obviously engage in their flavor of misogyny. And I do actually mean woman hating.

I got down voted and called "pussy whipped" for suggesting that rather than waiting for a woman who's already decided it's appropriate to screech and publicly shame someone she went on a single date with because he wasn't yielding the sovereignty of his wallet to her over a 4$ smoothie and then escalate to using her pepper spray and keying his car that it would have been wiser to simply turn around and walk out as soon as she started behaving like a toddler. She was literally the definition of someone begging to be next'd.

His suggestion? Have a gun. And when I said that such an idea was absurd and that he'd absolutely have the law book thrown at him over firing a gun in response to pepper spray was that he had no intention of firing said gun. There is no legal defense for brandishing a fire arm. There is no legal defense for using a gun in self defense in non-life threatening situations because for legal purposes you do not fire your gun unless you intend to kill your target. A gun can only be used if your life is by your own estimate, threatened. People started railing about being judged by 12 rather than carried by 6, making up phobias and saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Christ.

But the thing is when you actually bothered combing over these people's post history it wasn't obvious that they were just troll accounts. These people genuinely believe this shit.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)


    [–]1mcdehuevo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I agree that it's a far from perfect method, but I expect it would at least filter out a lot of the noise and prevent the wrong kinds of trends from building on each other as more new people join. To me, some level of restriction is the only way to keep the chaff from drowning the wheat.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Perhaps we need a stronger sticky about posting guidelines. Noobs can potentially contribute good stuff, because sometimes newness leads to a new viewpoint. It's not always bad. But there is definitely a lot of noise in the form of linking to articles that show women hamstering it up and men getting treated badly by media and the legal system. r/mensrights is the place for those posts, IMO.

    Not to mention all the noobs who think that getting angry at women and the world makes them look alpha.

    [–]1mcdehuevo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    r/mensrights is the place for those posts, IMO

    Exactly. And I don't see any way to enforce that other than establishing hard boundaries for noobs. This isn't particular to TRP; it's the Eternal September problem in a different form. It would also prevent a lot of trolling, because what bleating pink-blooded SJW is going to sully the moral purity of her Reddit account by subscribing to TRP?

    [–]100Timeswww 1 point2 points  (8 children)

    I think it'd be far more helpful to restrict submission of new posts.

    If you've ever run a forum/discussion board, you would know this is a bad policy. New people who come here and see restrictions might instantly leave because of it. A good moderation team should take the place of those restrictions and help keep the forum clean without being over-bearing.

    It's a difficult but necessary balance between structure and openness that this sub has seemed to do well in despite the complaints.

    [–]DexiAntoniu 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    It's not bad policy for TRP. If people leave this place because they cannot comment, as in, they aren't going to lurk first and adapt to the environment, then no loss, this place isn't for them.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]1Zackcid 9 points10 points  (3 children)

      If you really think about it, do we really want the type of people who would get "impatient" and upset for not being able to submit new posts?

      Odds are, somebody with those traits probably won't be bringing much to the table. (and it's not like TRP is actively trying to recruit new members, so no loss there)

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      My only complaint is that someone like me who routinely deletes accounts and starts new ones would be inconvenienced. If someone was particularly arsed they'd just register new accounts in bulk and keep multiple running in parallel and simply replacing one with another as soon as they get banned.

      It does also raise the issue that because the philosophical opposite end of this sort of debate does these exact kinds of things where they heavily regulate, restrict and control what can be said on their respective boards that we absolutely shouldn't try to do such a thing. This is a free speech zone. You can post whatever you feel is right, but the community at large is equally able to lionize or demonize your comments as they see fit. The karma scale decides and if it is really necessary a moderator can step in to say, "this is getting vote bombed but is clearly TRP 101 material. On the other hand this post is not but got upvoted for no clear reason."

      In other words, do not punish the actions of the majority to go after a minority. Deal with the exceptions to the norm as they come, do not bend the norm to deal with the exception.

      [–]1aguy01 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      someone like me who routinely deletes accounts and starts new ones would be inconvenienced.

      Making people accountable for what they post by making it inconvenient to post with a new account is the whole point.

      [–]ont_anon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If you've ever run a forum/discussion board, you would know this is a bad policy.

      I would agree with this on any other type of forum where you are actively recruiting new members to post questions, get your traffic up, etc. However, IMHO, there do need to be some barriers to entry to /r/TheRedPill, just as there are to actually living the ethos.

      We are looking for quality over quantity. Lowering the barriers to entry seems to me an almost feminist way of letting the new people get good feelz so that they can trumpet that they "...just swallowed the red pill yesterday afternoon and picked up a drunk, barely standing '5' at last call and want to thank TRP!" No one needs to read that shit.

      If you want to complete a marathon you need to show your desire by putting in the time & effort beforehand to train. In the same way, the red pill requires time and effort of learning and living. For myself, I believe that it is constantly changing and evolving and there will always be more to learn, that I will always be a student of TRP. There is no quick, easy way to "being" red pill.

      One of the core tenets of TRP is that life is not easy. Quality relationships with women do not come easily. Working hard on yourself to become the best man you can be is not easy. Why then, in the home of TRP theory, should rookie posts of questionable quality be made easy?

      [–][deleted]  (8 children)


        [–]elevul 0 points1 point  (7 children)

        That's not enforceable, IIRC. Anyone can vote any post/thread within reddit and there is no way to stop that (nor should be, imho).

        It's enough for threads to be removed and comments moderated.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

        I hate silencing discourse even if it's idiotic.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Aristocracy matters. We have mods for a reason. I would hope the mods would protect the integrity of TRP canon, even if that means smacking people down from time to time.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)


          [–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian -1 points0 points  (2 children)

          Already happened.

          Still think it's better to take the good with the bad and have some mess to wade through. Resembles real life.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


            [–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That's not the one I was talking about, different name same idea. Also I do understand why you would make that private, defeats the purpose otherwise.

            [–]southernfriedcode 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Question: Does the report button work or do we need to PM you?

            I try to report as many obviously troll / bad posts as I can find. But if those reports aren't doing the trick, I can PM stuff to the mods instead.

            [–]ModMachiavellianRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Yeah the report button works but I'll notice a PM quicker. PM is to phone as report is to email.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            you should start calling them out. a little public shame never hurt anyone.

            [–]averageredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I don't mind some restrictions for new comers. I lurked for over a year and even when I registered just made some comments to get used to the language before I made my first submission.

            Allowing new members to have a finite comment submission per week for the first months is a good strategy, if you have a finite resource you will try to spend it in the best way you could.

            my 2cts

            [–]WalkingWikipedia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I agree. I've been lurking for 6 months. How many posts have I contributed? Zero, because I'm still learning/absorbing. This is actually only the second time I've commented. 6 months ago there were far fewer posts, but you could just tell that the authors had been immersed in red pill thinking/behavior for years; their posts were well thought-out and cohesive. Now it seems like half of the posts are by guys that just discovered TRP and feel like they're contributing something worthwhile when in actuality it reads as if they're posting just to post and they're not even connecting all of the dots yet.

            [–]1AlienSunrise 149 points150 points  (32 children)

            Well said. I'm seeing too much hate on here and not enough understanding of how things work. We aren't here to hate, we aren't here to feel sorry for ourselves and complain that we don't get laid. We are here to further understand the society around us and to learn and implement ways of being happy and living in a way that provides the best possible outcome for ourselves.

            [–]1BaeCaughtMeJackinOff 98 points99 points  (20 children)

            this subreddit lately has been turning into /r/mensrights and /r/pussypass. Nothing against those two subreddits, but trp is about learning sexual strategy and not so much about complaining.

            [–]widec 16 points17 points  (14 children)

            I've been hearing that since I made my account 9 months ago. Our job is to not only discourage shit posts, but actively produce good content. I keep hearing complaints, but I don't see people standing up to try and make the subreddit better.

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)


              [–]Endorsed ContributorDownvoteToDisagree 12 points13 points  (2 children)

              I wouldn't mind repeats of basic RP theory. It would walk the newbies through the fundamentals and would be a fresh opportunity to us to give commentary on its application.

              [–]MattAmoroso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              In a way, you have to repeat because you get new readers all the time.

              [–]TooMuchToDoo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              a small amelioration would be more field reports-- I'd like to see more people in action and what practical applications they've learned to share with others.

              [–]Flareprime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              As a newbie, I'd like stories from the experienced guys about when they first starting applying rptheory. Especially failures or individual problems, and how you identified what went wrong

              [–]gwizmcpyro 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              I think the problem might be that those whom have benefitted from TRP have already gone and applied their knowledge I the field. So new content is solely from the minority angry newcomers.

              [–]solariant 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Yeah, I thought about this. Spending time on the internet helping clueless noobs at no profit for yourself is not exactly TRP behavior. So how can we trust that anyone here "helping" is actually doing it from a true RP perspective? (In particular it's very hard to see why anyone professing to offer "dark triad" advice could be trusted, as the selfless and charitable act appears to run totally contrary to that philosophy). I know TRP is not anything like as extreme as DT so perhaps my concerns over TRP members offering advice is less valid, but still...)

              [–]jobs33ker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              It's not just that, but the newcomers are still typical redditors, as i pointed out in another thread this is evidenced by their use of bullshit redditese language. They come here thinking we "cant be as bad" as reddit says, so when things resonate with them, they try to reinterpret the message as something that "reddit can understand" and try to water down our message so they can run back to the rest of reddit and say "see? trp isn't bad, guise!"

              It's sickening.

              [–]cooledcannon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              TRP is one of many subs i go on. As long as the shitposting is kept to a minimum(so as not to screw up my frontpage), im not too fussed about the lack of good content.

              [–]Josh_The_Boss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Well it's a hell of a lot easier to shit post than to take the time to carefully write out a quality post.

              [–]1whatsazipper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              Gotta step up our game. I'm down. How about you?

              [–]widec 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              If I come across any interesting articles or figure out how to put my ideas into coherent paragraphs, sure, I'll post some things up when I have the time.

              [–]Mardoo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I never saw TRP in this way. getting laid is fun, but improving ourselfes has to be a bigger priority than that.

              We shall not be abused, used or treated like shit, that's what TRP is all about.. not manipulating chicks to sleep with us, it's to be a better version of you who doesn't give a fuck about what women think of you.

              [–]Planner_Hammish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I never saw TRP in this way. getting laid is fun, but improving ourselfes has to be a bigger priority than that.

              We shall not be abused, used or treated like shit, that's what TRP is all about.

              I agree; I come here to read about self-improvement and about behaviour theory on why women act the way they do. When I read stories that are nearly identical to my own stories, particularly about failed relationships, I find hope. TRP is a path to recognizing why those relationships failed, and avoiding those mistakes in the future.

              I disagree with the first thing in the sidebar FAQ that says this sub is about:

              The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.

              IMO, RedPill represents rediscovery of masculinity, maleness and manliness. A central tenant is we were told things about how the world works growing up, and those things turned out to be false. If we choose to see things as they are (i.e. swallow the pill), then that is the first step to a better life. Women (and men) don't respect a supplicating man. They expect a man to have manly qualities, and when he doesn't have those qualities, rather has feminine qualities, he is looked down upon or even abused.

              If I were given the reigns to rewrite that portion of the FAQ, it would read "RedPill is about becoming a better man. It is a space to discuss masculinity, maleness, manliness and what it means to be a man in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men. By acting on this knowledge to change things within our control, we choose to become more attractive, and less unattractive."

              EDIT: I like the way /u/gg_s put it: "TRP is a place to analyze and discuss observed sociosexual dynamics and how it relates to getting what you want."

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              It's not just sexual strategy. It's a lifestyle. You use TRP in all facets of life.

              [–]1AlienSunrise -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Though TRP has great sexual strategy advice, I myself believe that applying the same strategy to my life in general is a great way to improve overall happiness and quality of life.

              [–]Idle_Redditing 10 points11 points  (1 child)

              I'll say that I like reading both productive things like this and also like reading the hating and complaining that's done here

              EDIT: Just to give a perspective of someone who isn't sick of the mra and pussypass aspects of this sub.

              [–]Mild111 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              This. I mean we already have /r/pua and /r/seduction, and while we may not agree with the strategies that are posted there, We could be posting our own.

              I think RedPill is meant to teach men to respect their selves by exposing the pussy pass for what it is, and offering the pickup techniques relevant to this kind of knowledge, so that the men here can make the masculine decision on how to deal with women in a safe but deeper way than the one night stand numbers game that the other pickup subreddits are playing.

              [–]gwizmcpyro 1 point2 points  (4 children)

              If I may add a suggestion, I think we should take the old-Seddit (I know people in this subreddit hate Seddit, but I personally think it's a great way to supplement your game) format with more Field Reports and possibly infields of some sort. Show newcomers that reading every article on TRP is nothing compared to the power of trial and error in the field.

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                It has largely devolved into low-value men looking for romantic shortcuts, when really there are none. At best, if you manage to spit strong game you can punch a little above your SMV. Seddit seems to believe that game is the be-all end-all.

                Second, it has devolved into a cesspit of supposed 'equality' ever since women and manginas found their way in and PC-polished the place up. You can't have frank discussions if it means hurting a delicate flower's feelings. Just the fact that their mantra is "Leave her better than you found her" is all you need to know about their mindset.

                [–]gwizmcpyro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                My evidence is that Seddit is regarded as cheap parlor tricks a lot of times that, as you said, conveys a level of falsehood. If you're flipping burgers, driving a shit car, and living in Mom's basement, then sure, this could apply to you. But if you got SMV through the roof, I feel Seddit and its tactics are the 'icing' to the cake that TRP forms its foundation on. Seddit/PUA advertises the product, while TRP keeps them coming back for more.

                [–]Ferelden 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                I think as we've grown more people would rather spend their time reading fem blogs so they can say, "see awalt!" This makes it easier for them to not put in the work it requires to be a good man, because they can just blame women for their own inability to get with them. It's funny reading those posts and then you look at how the rest of reddit/people view trp. I'd argue for both correlation and causation on that. You want to talk about being a disposable male? Go to men's rights. About women getting away with everything? Pussypass. You want to talk about becoming the best man you can be, read trp then. As long as the mods allow these pussypass posts and complaining the worse this sub is going to get.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                  [–]Planner_Hammish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  I think bitter an anger is part of the transition. If you live your whole life following certain assumptions that were drilled into you since childhood and then discover that it is all a sham, you would be angry too! Digesting that, finding a new path and new tools to navigate the world takes time. And after a time, you can enjoy life again.

                  [–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (10 children)

                  This needs to be said.

                  Too much bullshit on here about women acting like women with the Men's Rights flair, as if there's anything revelatory about linking to a news article wherein a woman gets a pussypass.

                  Yes, it helps to be reminded of the harsh realities. But to think you're championing a cause because you're highlighting reality is faulty. We are all redpilled; we know the nature of women. We accept it. And we strategize around it.

                  [–]WillClickOnAnything 24 points25 points  (5 children)

                  I'm sick to death of all these MRA posts here. We get it already and it has jack shit to do with TRP. All that is covered, ad naseum, in the sidebar. We really need to downvote this trash.

                  [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  I agree it's completely irrelevant. Now, I recently started reading trp like four months ago and as I recall it was much better back then..I think.

                  [–]erqos -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

                  It's a common misconception that TRP is about how to get laid. No, TRP is about men who've taken the red pill, which means they know about hypergamy, misandry, and stuff like that. So everything in the manosphere from PUA to MRA to MGTOW are all subsets of TRP. We are all brethren in this repressed knowledge. Infighting in the manosphere only grants victory to feminists and their enablers and enforcers.

                  [–]WillClickOnAnything 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  It's a common misconception that TRP is about how to get laid.

                  Did you hear me say it was? Fact is MRA have their own subs and their mindset is toxic over here.

                  [–]erqos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Let me make it unequivocally clear for you: TRP is the alpha and omega of the manosphere, no pun intended. It's a portal for all things manly and anti-effeminacy, and MRA certainly qualifies despite what you personally think of them. MRAs are some of the staunchest TRPers out there, and I for one welcome them here.

                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)


                    [–]gg_s 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    For the millionth time, TRP is not a self-improvement sub.

                    TRP is a place to analyze and discuss observed sociosexual dynamics and how it relates to getting what you want. Newcomers to the pill absorb this discussion and awaken to their mediocre position in the sexual marketplace. Self-improvement is a natural masculine response to mediocrity, but it is not the main focus of this sub. You can find red pill self-improvement at /r/becomeaman

                    [–]Planner_Hammish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    I think TRP is about self improvement. I would say that is isn't about "self-help" though. I agree with everything else you said though, especially "TRP is a place to analyze and discuss observed sociosexual dynamics and how it relates to getting what you want." The purpose of the analysis is to apply it to the context of our own lives (i.e. improve what we are doing). And part of the "sexual strategy" is improvement - 1) be attractive 2) don't be unattractive - meeting 1&2 requires self improvement.

                    [–]trp52 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Why don't we just disallow MRs type posts ?

                    [–]1cover20 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                    This is the real Red Pill stuff.

                    It's not about lifting or self improvement, at least not primarily. It's about this. Self improvement is masculine and fits in well.

                    [–]KingofNUlm 9 points10 points  (2 children)

                    My dog loves me unconditionally....

                    [–]xvkx -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    Nope you still feed him and pet him, play with him, etc.

                    [–]Incepto_ne_desistam 15 points16 points  (6 children)

                    I hamstered it like this. People are generally lazy and don't want to work. The idea of unconditional love is just that. People want to be loved and be lazy. I don't place any stigma on women for not loving unconditionally, because I don't love unconditionally.

                    [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                      [–]ZippityD 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      assuming that they stayed relatively the same

                      That would be a pretty strong condition.

                      [–]TheAwesomeTheory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Thanks I needed this. An applied and actual representation of what is meant by "unconditional" love.

                      When I think this about my SO that's what I mean. I accept her where she is at.

                      I also accept myself where I am at, an I am glad that she does too, but I will always be changing for the better. Always.

                      [–]Incepto_ne_desistam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I can visualize them, and I can even make myself feel the emotions. In reality, I tend to prioritize what people provide me. I don't think this can be called love. It's just being selfish.

                      [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      Yes it's hamstering. Because it doesn't recognize the difference that exists between men and women.

                      You don't have to prove that every statement about women is also true of men, nor vice versa. Because they're not.

                      [–]Incepto_ne_desistam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I happen to share this trait. I didn't assume that all men did.

                      [–]username1153 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                      Something that I don't see mentioned here much is the fact that men are not much better either. I know damn well my love for a girl is dependent on how well her body looks, how well her face looks, how well she fixes herself, and how well she behaves. If any of those fall below a certain threshold, I feel somewhat disgusted and it is harder to feel emotionally connected to her. The men who say they can love unconditional are the weak ones anyways who are more worried about "doing the right thing", and don't know how to go and get what they really want.

                      [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                      The thresholds are different. Your woman is going to get old and ugly, no doubt about it. Most men don't leave their women on account of this.

                      If your paycheque gets cut in half, you better believe that's going to affect your woman's attraction. She may not leave right away, but the countdown has begun.

                      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                      I stopped reading TRP for the last few months. For me, I chilled on this sub for a while and absorbed the pertinent information, made some posts, received constructive responses, and lived my life. I think people that learn from this sub the most gravitate away from it and end up not needing to rely on it and check in all the time.

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      exactly, i've been here for about a month now but i think i've grasped most of what i needed from it. The rest is just entertainment. I'll be leaving soon when the time feels right.

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I started noticing the male equivalent of the hamster wheel, and it spins just as fast and relentlessly. I've been checking in more frequently (yet still infrequently) to Christian McQueen's blog and a little bit of ROK. There's far less trolling and misinformation. ROK can be extreme though.

                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      I think we have to be more ready to accept our own flaws in order to grow personally. Men and women aren't static, eternally defined beings and there isn't just one path to success and self improvement. I've always thought TRP was equally about understanding women and understanding ourselves.

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      This makes me not want to be in a relationship

                      [–]Elguappo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I started lurking over a year and a half ago. The number of quality posts to shit posts has plummeted. I still don't feel as though I am prepared to start my own thread in this subreddit. This is actually my first comment. In short, lurk more. Read and learn and shut the fuck up.

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      This is a really focused reminder of what people should be thinking about in here. Thanks for posting it.

                      [–]87GNX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      This is actually a good way of looking at it.

                      Every relationship needs a certain minimum quantity of masculinity, and if you're not providing it then you're basically offloading it onto her. You're actually forcing your bitch to become more mannish.

                      And why in hades would you want to do that?

                      [–]Ultimativity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      As a newer member, I appreciate the reminder. Please be patient with most newcomers as this is a major paradigm shift. Like finding out you were actually adopted.

                      Every movement has to constantly reinforce the fundamentals as adoption rate moves up the S curve. Sidebars aren't as alluring as most of the posts in this sub, so newcomers will skip over them. Reminders like this, posted in the main feed, are helpful and necessary. Thanks

                      [–]crumpetsbollocks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I just want to share I'm in a relationship/marriage, and he does act more feminine, and I have grown in masculinity to offset that, and I resent him for some of it. Like I don't care if I have to decide big decisions, and handle the bills, and fix the cars, and do all the man jobs, but I still wanted him to man up when I need him. When I need someone to take care of me, to comfort me... that should be him. That could be rubbing my back after a hard day, or helping with the dishes when I'm falling behind. But I'm still with him taking care of him. There's a lot of things I don't like about the man I'm with, but because I love him UNCONDITIONALLY, I get the eff over it. All I'm saying is unconditional love is like a mother and a child. We don't have to embrace every flaw, or love every aspect of you. It means we love you despite all the flaws.

                      Anyway, good luck finding love and stuff. If all else fails with women, there's always Jesus.

                      [–][deleted]  (25 children)


                      [–]1cover20 10 points11 points  (2 children)

                      Your post doesn't work because it isn't true. Most men don't dump their wives if they get fat. There's a tendency for men to see their wives as they were when they met or married, even though to the rest of the world she's 20 years older now obviously. Once bonded, men tend to stay bonded. Women tend to initiate the no-fault divorces.

                      [–]Schrodingersdawg 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      Going to play devil's advocate here: Lots of old RP men stay with their wives as they age. Is that because marriage makes even the most alpha of men beta, or because "wife goggles" are actually a thing?

                      [–]indyclone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      No, it's because as relationships grow looks aren't as important, and everybody ages. Leaving your spouse because they have wrinkles or have put on a little weight isn't alpha. And staying with them isn't beta.

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                                                  [–]Espiritu13 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                  I rarely comment on RP posts because of the advice to shut up and listen, even though I've been subbed for about 3 to 4 months. This is awesome.

                                                  I am in a LTR that plans to go to marriage (everyone freak out) and I have been wondering why everything is working when I'm not buff or rich. Reading this reminds me that there are reasons that she likes me.

                                                  She is not my one true love, there is no person that can take that place, she is not my world, we've both agreed on this, but we make each other better and happy.

                                                  This is the reminder I needed, she is not going to love me unconditionally, so that is why I need to continue learning and changing.

                                                  Thanks a ton for this.

                                                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                                                  [–]MirthSpindle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                  As a woman I am confirming that everything in the OP is true (for me personally). As much as it is insensitive to admit, I don't love unconditionally and never will, and I'm sure most woman are the same. It's a hard fact of reality. If only real life was like what we read in stories or watch in movies.

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                                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      I'm quite new as well, but I can see what you're speaking about. As this place gets more popular, the amount of low quality posts will become more of an issue. I've seen parts of such a phase in r/bitcoin when at some point there was a flood of newbies cuz of its popularity.

                                                      I suppose the rate of bans must've increased accordingly and they also made a beginners subreddit.

                                                      I'm saying all if this because my guess is that at some point moderators will "up" the standard quality of a post (thus being more severe/selective) and start to externalise parts of the community.

                                                      But they may as well come up with better solutions. Anyway, I must take this chance to thank the current mods for the effort/time they're putting up for all of us so that we can enjoy our "red pills".

                                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                                      Is it possible to make an account only allowed to comment after being subscribed for X no. months? And make posts after Y number of points scored directly from this sub?

                                                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                      we could prevent people from driving on the wrong side of the road by erecting walls between lanes. Or we could just let people know the consequence of driving on the wrong side of the road.

                                                      [–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      Best thing I've learned all day.

                                                      [–]1raceAround126 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      Why not just have a system where moderators assign known-good TRP'ers some sort of icon next to their names?

                                                      [–]NoFatChicks88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      Yeesh, you guys need to calm down and realize that a lot of these redpill topics are discussed everywhere and under different names. Pretty sure a lot of the guy's here came from 4chan's /r9k/ board, and they've been shitting down women's throats for quite some time now.

                                                      [–]not-a-nice-guy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      I am kind of new here myself, (this is not my normal account, this is my new one). I think it would be a good idea to force all new people to post in /r/asktrp for a little bit before they are allowed to post in this subreddit. I see this subreddit as more of the newspaper of TRP, and asktrp as the, well what it's name is. This would keep people that are confused/angry (for the most part) out of TRP (e.g. posting things that are not useful) and in /r/asktrp where they belong.

                                                      [–]psugrad98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      I've recently found this out. I see how my wife's best friend with a shitty marriage looks at me. She sees in me that I'm a better husband to my wife than her husband is to her. She says that to my wife, and my wife eats it up. She realizes that I provide, I am there at the end of the night, provide for the family. Our marriage is better, we get along more, and we have more sex.

                                                      [–]26point2Beast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      One of the saddest realizations I've ever had. It changes the concept of true love from a mystical cosmic ether that can only happen when two destinies come together, to something real, tangible, quantifiable, readily manufacturable and shallow.

                                                      [–]Idle_Redditing 0 points1 point  (22 children)

                                                      How can openness, vulnerability and all of that other stuff be shown without ruining everything?

                                                      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (9 children)

                                                      Assuming you're interested in an LTR:

                                                      When you get to the right place in the relationship where you truly know your girl, you can do all of this and have it be a benefit.

                                                      Remember, you should always be trying to be attractive. Women love the idea that a man they truly believe to be strong and perhaps more importantly that they believe others perceive as strong will show them some vulnerability, as long as it's not some terrible, crippling thing that undermines the person they want to see you as.

                                                      Regardless of gender, the social mind works by constructing simulations of others based on outwardly visible behaviour and data gleaned from many, many sidechannel sources. Stereotypes and heuristics feed this simulation. You have a sim of your girl, and she has a sim of you - that's how you can ask yourself, "how would she react to this?"

                                                      Simulation is the essence of empathy, and TRP has you present a sim that is full of value, one that inherits from the best stereotypes possible.

                                                      If someone reveals information that goes drastically against your simulation of them, this has a profound impact on you. They're not the person you thought they were! Your mind reels as you recalculate their personhood, intentions, standing, and other factors in a process that's completely opaque to you as a conscious mind but nonetheless kicks in. In the end, what might have seemed a fairly solid section of simulation is torn away, replaced only by cloudy suggestions. The remainder has been re-evaluated.

                                                      So, with this in mind, you'd be a fool to release some information that's particularly terrible early on in a relationship.

                                                      You need to take your time, and solidify in her mind the parts of your persona that you personally think are most valuable. The best way to do this is actually to genuinely become that person as much as you can; I would never advocate trying to maintain any large or complex lie long-term, as it's not worth it for your own sanity and you'll probably be caught eventually.

                                                      Taking them each in turn:


                                                      Openness is a very generic sort of descriptor, isn't it? I need to guess at what you might have meant by that. Openness to new ideas, cultures, politics, and that sort of thing? You're going to have to judge the level of this that a girl will need you to show.

                                                      Some girls are only going to date guys who have very Progressive, left-wing, feminist views on things when questioned publicly. I would suggest trying to avoid dating someone like this; if you're going to date them, don't compromise your principles just to ingratiate yourself. Better to be "open" in the form of an active listener in this case; you can ask questions (leading ones, too, if you like) and even dominate the conversation entirely if you wish without having to reveal too much about your own personal views.

                                                      Some girls are looking for someone on the other side of the spectrum, and with them you can be open about your views on many topics and receive support and feedback for them, along with contributions and new ideas.


                                                      Like any complex human social behaviour, vulnerability has multiple components and depends highly on context.

                                                      There's vulnerability in the case where something terrible has happened; one is allowed to grieve, or be sad for a loss. This is the part I was talking about earlier, where you can allow your girl to see that there is some soft part of you - if you want to, and if it's genuine.

                                                      But then there's vulnerability when someone or something has you cornered.

                                                      This could be at work, with police, or via some other external adversary, in which case you'd be showing vulnerability to your girl while discussing the situation with her; this is an introduction of instability, and your demeanor, confidence, and plan is an important way to show that stability will return at some point.

                                                      Worse, it could be her that has you cornered, in which case being a supplicating beta that breaks down and does everything her way will earn you scorn, even though she's getting what she wants. I think there's better advice out there than this post can give you about what to do in that case.

                                                      and all of that other stuff

                                                      You'll figure it out. In my honest opinion as someone who's been with his girl half his life now, the good ones are the ones with whom this sort of thing will not be an issue. If you're worried about it with some girl, she's not someone to wife.

                                                      [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                                      I wifed one to whom it is an issue, almost 20 years now. But that wasn't clear to me up front, nor would I necessarily have done differently. She has some very good features, this is not a good one.

                                                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                      I think this is a case where it really depends on how you acted all these years. Different actions with the same girl might've left you with a different relationship that made you both happier.

                                                      [–]Idle_Redditing 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                                                      the good ones are the ones with whom this sort of thing will not be an issue. If you're worried about it with some girl, she's not someone to wife.

                                                      I thought that all women were hypergamous and so on and will cheat on or dump/divorce a man's ass if he goes beta. All of them, not just spoiled western women filled with 3rd wave feminist crap. It connects to the whole idea of women not actually loving you, they love what you bring to them.

                                                      You're saying that there are women who don't need to be gamed for the whole duration of a relationship? Ones where I would not always have to be on my game to some extent no matter what?

                                                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                      It's still game, but the game changes if you're playing it well. The tests change, and you'll know her habits and what works and doesn't. It becomes less effortful for you to continue to play, though it's not like you ever truly get to stop...

                                                      [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                                                      All women want strong, secure men. What /u/Dick-Tracy wrote is probably more attributable to the fact that not all displays of weakness are sufficient to completely kill attraction.

                                                      Being vulnerable never works in your favour, but it's possible to have enough SMV that your wife is still attracted to you despite the DLV behaviour.

                                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                                                      Being vulnerable never works in your favour

                                                      Well, like I said, it's a different part of vulnerability. It could be good, for example, for your lady to see you cry when your grandmother dies - but only if that's an honest display of emotion on your part, and if it's over quickly, and if you show a strong recovery and willingness to help comfort other family members.

                                                      It humanizes you and will make her realize that you've been an honest person with your emotions in other aspects of the relationship as well.

                                                      Other kinds of vulnerability, not so much. Its one thing to be concerned with your future (good), quite another to be actively worried about it and stressing and haranguing or moping about it in a negative, emotional, vulnerable state while not actually doing anything to improve it (bad).

                                                      [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                                      The only difference there is the degree to which your SMV drops. Most women will be understanding about crying at a funeral, but it doesn't raise your SMV at all, it doesn't do you any favours. Women cannot stand to see a man cry, it's just their nature.

                                                      A man that grieves for an abnormally long time, for example, will run the risk of killing his partner's attraction.

                                                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                                      Most women will be understanding about crying at a funeral, but it doesn't raise your SMV at all,

                                                      If you're crying at a funeral, it should be because you need to as an honest part of a grieving process, not as a sociopathic, calculated move to change people's perceptions of you. Of course it doesn't raise your SMV, but that shouldn't be a factor in whether you're doing it or not.

                                                      [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                      It doesn't change the fact that women don't want to see it, no matter how justified the behaviour. Use the information as you will, I'm not prescribing any specific action.

                                                      [–]projectself[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

                                                      it falls under

                                                      You do not have to do it perfectly

                                                      you are not a ten, you do not have to be perfect. she is not perfect. you do not need to be an emotionless robot. Of course you will have different roles, especially in a long term relationship.

                                                      You can be vulnerable, you can be open, but your default needs to be solid. Your core should be internally focused and solid. Of course you are human, be human. But do not let her moods, or her words, shape your course of action. You shape your course of action 100% on your own.

                                                      [–]Idle_Redditing 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                                                      But do not let her moods, or her words, shape your course of action.

                                                      So where does listening to her input come in? Especially when something is actually wrong, and needs to change, and she's not just being hormonal?

                                                      [–]1cover20 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                      That's the sort of beta moment that happens all the time in an LTR especially a marriage. It is necessary, but too much of it will weaken her attraction and increase her bitching, shit tests, etc.

                                                      Just keep frame and realize that's how things are, and you can get back on your alpha horse when possible and you have the energy, and her attraction will improve again, even though she says she hates your guts and despises you and all that crap.

                                                      [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                                                        [–]projectself[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                        I view it like this. No one can change my mind about anything. No one has the power to convince me to change my opinion or plan. Only I can do that. However, I always am looking for new information to make my decisions on. If someone shows me a new perspective and based on new information I search my deepest wisdom and decide based on new perspective I change course, only I have done so.

                                                        Of course you will listen when your woman says things to you. You will hear what she says, but it is up to you to determine if new information warrants you to change course.

                                                        A captain of the ship decides the course, when someone from below warns him an iceberg is approaching he would be a fool to ignore it. That does not mean the guy on the deck is in charge of the ship.

                                                        [–]Idle_Redditing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                                        If you need her perspective on something, then get her input. By doing this, you're asking for her serious consideration and you need to take her answer seriously. Otherwise why did you ask?

                                                        I was thinking of the relationship itself and my part of it. Basically the sort of "we need to talk" moments where important things are actually brought up.

                                                        [–]Fir3start3r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                        But do not let her moods, or her words, shape your course of action. You shape your course of action 100% on your own.

                                                        Funny, I essentially just said this very thing to a guy in my Al Anon men's group. He said he was getting a hard time from his current GF about a course he's always wanted to take but it's taking a lot of time away from her between the course and a full time day job.
                                                        I told him, you do what YOU need and want to do; don't let her jealousy and lack of trust ruin it. I said, look, there's nothing worse than looking back on what you could have done and then have to start eating at a banquet of your own regrets. You'll hate yourself for letting someone else influence something you really wanted to do... Just don't go there...

                                                        [–]1cover20 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                                                        Well to tell you the truth, it doesn't.

                                                        Lots of men in good strong marriages have reported that when they had some sort of personal blow, even a death in their family, cousins, parents, etc., the wife suddenly was NOT there for them. Vulnerability = perception of weakness = she loses attraction to you.

                                                        When she loses attraction, she stops being the woman you married. At all.

                                                        You can sort of expect a woman to bitch if you lose your job, but a death in your family cannot be seen as your fault nor likely to affect her lifestyle. So this is a rather pure experiment, and the result is clear.

                                                        You don't have to be perfect in your masculinity, and you won't be. Raising kids especially involves lots of beta moments and even years. But then your wife will be far from perfect in her attraction to you.

                                                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                        Lots of men in good strong marriages have reported that when they had some sort of personal blow, even a death in their family, cousins, parents, etc., the wife suddenly was NOT there for them.

                                                        I've posted about this a bit more in this thread, so go read; but I will admit that what you're talking about is real, and happened in my family. However, a deeper look at what actually went on revealed in my situation that the man in question broke down further than he should have. It's one thing to be crestfallen and morose for a day, quite another for it to happen for days on end.

                                                        I hardly think any woman with whom a stable LTR is possible would begrudge a day or two of mourning. But, conversely, even my amazing wife would leave me if I became so distraught that I was unable to work or function for days at a time due to a death. It shows a critical weakness in a man, who must needs be willing to lead onward even when terrible shit has happened.

                                                        Now, if a woman loses attraction after an objectively acceptable mourning period, I'm going to guess that she wanted out anyway.

                                                        [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                        In short, they can't. You're better off sharing those things with male companions. Every man needs a strong circle of male friends, if you don't have this you should definitely prioritize it.

                                                        Any display of weakness lessens your SMV in the eyes of your partner. Her attraction may not drop so much that she will leave you for minor displays, but you're only hurting yourself by doing so.

                                                        [–]JGH8763 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                        You don't have to read "red pill" material to have a good understanding of its concepts. An evo-psych major, for instance, would pick up on everything almost instantly, because "red pill" is based on evo-psych more than anything. "Red pill" is nothing new. It's just a borrowing and repackaging of concepts from different areas.

                                                        [–]dicklord_airplane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                        thank you.

                                                        if you're still in your bitter complaining phase, please keep your mouth shut until you get past it, or else give up and go hang out in a MRA or MGTOW forum.

                                                        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                                        Since I do not write posts, I do the only thing I can do: down vote or report.

                                                        [–]solariant -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                                        Maybe it is the old members that are wrong - TRP has some great philosophy and the articles in the side bar are good, but there are some logical flaws in some of the assumptions that older members seem to make. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because someone is new, they are any less smart or "get it" any less than someone who's been around for a while - we might just be able to help you improve, as you can help us! signed, A. NEWMEMBER

                                                        [–]cooltrip -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                                        The woman contributes sex, children and sandwiches. The man contributes money, economic well-being, protection and social status.

                                                        Don't attempt to reverse those roles. A beta is a man who accepts to be a woman in order to get accepted by some woman that will be given the right of the male role with him. This is so absolutely pathetic that even women feel disgusted about it.

                                                        Beta behavior is a self-fulfilling prophecy; beta behavior of attempting to make a woman accept you, translates into "look at me, I'm not enough of a man; I'm an inferior man you shouldn't be interested in; I'M A FUCKING DISGUSTING BETA; don't choose me!".

                                                        If you are an alpha, it's the woman the one who should be interested in being accepted by you, since she can only make sandwiches, children and sex.

                                                        If a woman can contribute other more difficult or advanced things than sex, children and sandwiches, then she doesn't need you, and so you shouldn't be interested in her, unless you are an inferior man who needs to be helped and protected.

                                                        A real alpha can set conditions, so always position yourself at the psychological place of being the one setting conditions, in order to accept the woman.


                                                        [–]fapuffin -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                                                        Why is it that men seem to be able to have this legit one-itis-type unconditional love, even though they are the gender that can get away with putting less effort into baby raising. Theoretically men should be less likely than women to develop one-itis but it does not seem like that is the case.

                                                        [–]Prattler26 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                                                        Evolution. Oneitis improves children survivability.

                                                        [–]fapuffin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                                        No doubt that it helps improve child survivability, but I question whether this explains fully the reason why guys are like this. We develop one-itis even for girls who we haven't impregnated. Sounds like a neat pseudoscience explanation that supports our theory.

                                                        [–]UnimpressedAsshole -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                                                        unconditional love definitely does exist, just not in 99.99999999999999999999% of the population

                                                        [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

                                                        Sounds like more trouble than it's worth.