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Recently I was called out by a family member because I didn't make my almost three-year-old son sit still and be quiet when a couple of guys from my church came over to visit us, (see how I reacted based upon my description of my inability to maintain frame in my previous post on /r/asktrp).

My inclination was to let him play as long as he was relatively quiet. My family member (not my wife) told me after, like I said, that I should have had him sit down and be quiet.

I have a vague sense of dissatisfaction with teaching him to just sit and be quiet when he doesn't even understand what the grownups are talking about. But I have to admit that her justification that it was important to do that with children to help them learn self control etc at a young age seemed like a valid point.

Anyone care to weigh in on this? Thanks.


[–]est-la-lune 24 points25 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not married, but I think it may be helpful to change your perspective. Rather than planning your future outside of the marriage, identify problems that require attention and brainstorm solutions together. Plan your future together, even if it's not easy, and confront your problems head-on in a non-accusatory manner. If you want to make things work, you have to try - if you are okay with being divorced, then you don't have incentive to fight for your marriage, plain and simple.

It also sounds to me like there's a lot of stress going on in your life right now and since I don't have any other details, that's probably a good thing to address before you make any major decisions.

[–]rightytighty2 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Agreed with above. Plan your future together. Yes, finish school, gain a good career BUT make sure he knows he's first in your life. Not the kids, not your career - him. My career is awesome, I'm very successful BUT that comes second (or third!) to taking care of my husband's needs. I'm not a Stepford wife; I'm my husband's queen and that gives me riches beyond measure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the comment. I know you're right and it's something I have been struggling with a little bit with everything that has been going on. Husband and I are going to watch a movie together after the kids go to bed tonight. I will try to make a point to be more loving to him.

Just out of curiosity, do you ever have times when you feel like maybe you're putting more into the marriage than you are getting out of it? If so, how do you push through that point?

[–]rightytighty2 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes! I was thinking perhaps you could play a little hard to get with him? Have you read "Why Men Love Bitches"? If your man starts to get too comfortable and takes you for granted, you could pull away just a hair to wake him up. It's a balancing act! I try to be a Rules Girl (have you read "The Rules"?) and I'm pretty sure I'm married to an alpha male that formerly subscribed to "The Mystery Method" and the "Rules of the Game" (also two books that are written for HVMs!). I do believe that all men and women have the potential to be high value specimens! It's all in the way you conduct yourself. It's a mindset! And....please don't think my marriage is perfect. But that's why I'm on this forum - to keep myself in check!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will look into those books. I think I'm trying that, but it mostly makes me come off as cold. Ex. me wearing panties to bed was kinda my way of expressing my displeasure, playing a little hard to get, idk. It just makes him think I don't love him, or at least that's what he says. I guess I'm not doing it right, lol. :P

I really do enjoy this forum, there is a lot of useful info!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

thanks for the reply. I'm not really okay with divorce, I just don't really want to be unprepared (expectations, etc) if it happens. I really am an obsessive planner. Anyway, that's something that won't be on the table for at least another 2yrs, so there is a lot of time to try to work through things. And we should be out of the rough patch by then. If things aren't getting better after a couple years then it's probably because there was a big breakdown in communication somewhere.

[–]est-la-lune 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I say don't be okay with the idea of divorce, I mean that negative thoughts don't become negative emotions or actions unless we give weight to them. Divorce should be as strange as unicorns and sea monsters - not something you've pondered or planned out.

I'm an obsessive planner too, and there's a point where being too realistic becomes unhealthy. It's simply distracting you from making the plans you need to achieve the desired outcome, by making plans for every outcome.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds like this marriage can really work out and even thrive if you both want to make it happen.

In that case, you need to erase all thoughts of divorce from your mind and focus on your marriage 100%

If you're planning a divorce - even if just theoretically - you're already psychologically with one foot out the door. This will only make it that much more difficult to make the marriage work. You need to have 100% skin in the game to really make it work.

As for your question - your chances are not in your favor as a single mother, no matter how hot, sexy and beautiful you are.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your comment/honesty. I have been a little checked out since a few weeks or so ago. Not completely, I haven't given up, I think I'm just a little tired. But since I posted here I have been trying to make a shift in thinking a just come up with some ways to improve things on my side with the hope that things will get better overall.

[–]Kiddingyoself 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet again, I'd recommend checking out Stefan Molyneux's videos on this very topic.

[–]Cardiscappa 3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

My husband and I have been together 11yrs (since I was 17 and he was 16) and married for 8yrs.

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I don't feel very confident that we're going to make it

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our personalities are pretty compatible, which may make it easier to get to a better place once we can eliminate some of these stressors.

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Honestly, at this point I'm terrified at the thought of looking for another partner

I'm confused, do you want to divorce? Sounds like you have some issues that could be resolved. Would you want to talk about those instead and see if we have some suggestions?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I would actually. To be honest, I was really hesitant about posting specifics about my relationship after reading the sidebar b/c I didn't want to come off as husband bashing. I do love my husband and that wouldn't be my intention, but I know that things can be easily misconstrued over the internet. I did post something in r/relationships some weeks ago, that has a lot more detail regarding the current status of my relationship, but I can give other background about mine and my husband's personalities, how we operate in the marriage, etc if that would be better.

[–]Cardiscappa 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You're okay. <3

About a year ago, my husband told me he hates our children and that his life has been ruined because he had them.

Do you know why he thinks this? Do you dote over your children more than him? Are they a financial burden? Did he want to travel the world and now can't because he feels tied down? Something else? He seems very overwhelmed and that could be a very probable reason on why he lashes out. Men also lash out when they feel disrespected. Respect is very important to men (more so than love) and when they don't feel respected, sometimes they're not able to articulate the reasons behind and that causes anger. For Women Only is a very quick and easy read and goes over this in more detail. The books suggests that couples get both For Women and For Men, the wife reads the for men one and the husband the for women and highlight relevant sections and then switch books. This may be useful for your relationship as it sounds like you two may not be on the same page, nor even in the same book.

As for the rest, I'm very sorry you had to go through that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

First of all, I want to thank you so much for being understanding. What happened was a very difficult and controversial thing to go through and so I am always nervous about people's reactions to it (at least online, as no one irl knows).

I don't overly dot on the kids. I think husband mostly feels that way because our youngest is a very difficult child. I suspect the youngest may either have adhd or some mild autism, but there hasn't been any type of diagnosis for him. His doctor has recommended we change his diet, so I've been trying that. Maybe the little one is just stubborn and will catch up later: who knows, he's still young. No big issues with our oldest; he's a bright and good-natured kid.

We don't have serious financial complications. We have no debt and because my husband and I were both in the military our schooling is paid for.

I have asked my husband if he believes I respect him and he always says that he does, he just always comments on feeling unloved. I know it is typically the man that needs respect and the woman that needs love, but for us it's backwards. Maybe it's just like that because we aren't getting those things (husband feels like he gets respect but not love & vice-versa)?

Anyway, I think he just mostly doesn't like parenting. We are in the tough stages right now, so he always comments on how much easier/simpler our lives would be if we didn't have kids, how we'd have more money, more time, etc. I know he's right, kids take a lot of resources to raise. I think he really resents that.

I will take a look at that resource, thank you!

[–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I concur with u/est-la-lune and u/rightytighty2. Both these ladies are on the money. One emphasizes the aspect of numerous stressors in the marriage. Stressors can be resolved with through negotiation and small to medium changes via serious discussion from BOTH parties. The other emphasizes the importance of priorities. It’s all-around great advice.

I'm not sure how you manage being a full time student, but why not take 2 x classes versus 4 x classes. Do you really HAVE to graduate in 1.5 years? This is a possible solution right from the rip.

Your boys are young. Much of the aggravating behavior and issues almost always disappear as kids get older. I have seen multiple young kids grow out of minor issues and develop naturally as adolescents, young teens, and into young adults. The good news is neither has been diagnosed with a major problem.

Key Line: …our personalities are pretty compatible, which may make it easier to get to a better place once we can eliminate some of these stressors.

This is excellent news for your marriage. Your compatibility will make resolution easier. It will be difficult, but easier to eliminate your stressors.

A little honesty here…I did not read the summary/information from the Relationship Subreddit, but I assume there are no marriage disqualifiers? By disqualifiers I am talking about unforgivable infidelity, domestic abuse, financial negligence/irresponsibility to the point of homelessness, or a COMPLETE 180-degree personality shift from either person (e.g. this is NOT the person I married type-shift.) I see stressors and a rough patch. I like your contingency planning, but divorce is option #20 vice option #3…if it even comes to that at all. The reality is that changes need to be made in other areas, but you guys are far from candidates for divorce. NOTE: I’m no expert, but I’ve seen quite a few scenarios so this is mostly anecdotal and not hard science. I can see where you both could use counseling, both joint and separate.

More reality here – if housework was never his thing, he probably is not going to contribute much…a least not right now. I am really rooting for you, your husband, and your kids. The only major negative is your husband’s statement of the kids being a resource and time drain, but that’s inherent in building a family. Free time you would otherwise have available is diverted to them. I will note that men have a tendency to become more involved as kids get older. However, the disclaimer is that this is not ALWAYS the case. Little kids running around screaming, yelling, and making a mess is cute if it’s someone ELSE’s kids…so there’s that possibility.

This is the part where it gets rough…

What are the chances of a divorced mother of two marrying a high value male?

Real talk…and I’m being genuine without trying to be mean, but the odds of marrying a high value male are extremely low.

Consider this: Divorced, 2 x young kids, and late 20’s/early to mid-30’s woman. High Value/High Quality/TIER I Men have many other options before they select women with ANY kids – divorced or never-married…it doesn’t matter. You rate yourself a 7 based on looks. You lose points with the kids, no offense. Kids are great, but ONLY if there is biological link. Another man is not going to put in the effort you would probably like to see for rearing another man’s offspring. Moreover, I submit the bio-father wants to influence his children directly versus some other man. That means your now ex-husband would have to engage the other man. This situation is not always friendly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. You never know until you get there. Consider the possibility of being divorced and doing EVERYTHING you do right now, except without help.

Many men don’t have a natural inclination to rear another man’s child/children. If it does happen, a man MIGHT consider 1 x child. In that case, the women MUST BE SPECTACULAR in numerous ways as so to be an advantage (e.g. smoking hot, independently wealthy, a position of respect/high prestige or authority, etc.). Another man might have interest, but not likely be suited to your preferences. The internet/YouTube/social media is full of damning stories where men are offended women with kids would prime them as candidates for a second husband. Another consideration is that many men mislead Divorced/Single Mothers for the express purpose of sex and immediately exit once achieving their short-term goal. The dating market is not friendly to women with children. The paradigm has shifted since you last dated in just the last 10-12 years.

There’s the custody issues, and attorney fees (a lot of money will be lost to the system), and court dates, and the effect divorce has on kids, family taking sides, divided houses/separate residences, etc. If you think you’re losing time now, the civil court system is a mess…I repeat – It’s a mess of frustration and confusion. You DON’T want divorce unless it ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Lastly – I genuinely wish the best for you and your family.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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