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TL;DR - Your woman experiences your anger as a threat. This is a result of biology. Any time she sees you frustrated, enraged, or anywhere in between, her amygdala goes crazy, and she goes into crisis mode. In order for her to calm down/accept your frame, you have to be cool and collected first.

Intro

Life is not fair. The sooner you can recognize this, the sooner you will be able to build habits of thought that will help you cope with your surroundings in a way that produces outcomes you want. It is not fair that Lebron James is a physical marvel that no amount of lifting and practice will let you equal. If you can not accept this fact, then you will go through life bitter at his billion dollar empire, instead of focusing on what you can do to make your life better.

That's a contrived and easy example, though. This fact of life is more relevantly applied to your relationship with your LTR and society in general. It is not fair that she can raise her voice and even go so far as to hit you without being perceived as a significant threat, whereas mere body language from you sets off all kinds of alarm bells in her and in wider society.

You can act in the exact same manner as your LTR, and it will achieve wildly different outcomes.

Explanation

The reason for this is rooted in the innate differences in how men and women perceive each other. Essentially, women tend to perceive men as more threatening than the other way around, and this reaction is exaggerated. Thus, we have a society that assumes the man is the abuser, to the point that there are essentially no shelters for male victims of female domestic violence in America. It is well known that women can physically assault men in public without fear of being policed by the crowd, whereas if the man were to physically defend himself, he could go to jail.

The list is endless.

In personal conflict, this means that, when you begin to display anger, she will exaggerate the threat you present to her. Just firming up your tone can be enough to make her label you an outright threat to her bodily safety. This is a pure sympathetic nervous system reaction. She has no practical control over it. When she perceives a threat from you, her amygdala starts to go nuts. This is essentially a one-way street. Your amygdala can send signals to shutdown your prefrontal cortex, but not the other way around.

The Fallout

Your woman will never be able to hear your anger and frustration in its raw form. Ever. I don't care if you're married to fucking Ronda Rousey (okay, she might be an exception). When you start displaying signs of agitation, irritation, and especially rage, the conversation is effectively over, because she perceives that behavior as a threat that must be mitigated.

Remember, for women, context/emotions are everything. There's a reason that your woman is so unfocused on rigorously discussing conflict and equitable standards. It's because that topic literally doesn't matter to her. What matters is that she's upset/uneasy. So, when you get angry, this makes her upset, and every single word out of her mouth will be her trying to communicate that fact.

With another guy, displays of anger can work as a communication tool. I perceive that whatever it is you're talking about is really important to you, and we broker some sort of compromise. You could be outright flipping tables, and if I know you, I could still remain calm and talk to you about the issue.

RP Lessons Will Save You

There is nothing in the RP lexicon that confirms its value better than the fact that it overcomes this issue. Whatever your objective is, the core tenet of maintaining a calm, almost amused appearance in all situations is so fundamental to interacting positively with the women in your life that RP could be wrong on literally every other front (it most definitely isn't), and it'd still be worth wading through the shit to find this gem.

AA, fogging, negative assertion, and negative inquiry are all tools designed to overcome her threat matrix.

How to Internalize Frame

Frame is about two things. One, figuring out what your values/worldview is. When she comes at you with something from two weeks ago that you've already discussed multiple times, what are your boundaries? Is it acceptable for people in your life to treat you this way?

Two, figuring out how to enforce that boundary. In my personal view, until you complete and implement this step, your line in the sand isn't a boundary. It's just mental masturbation.

How do you achieve both of these with your woman? WRITE THEM DOWN.

Get a notebook, and come up with as many scenarios as you can. In every single conflict you have with her, write down what she brings up, figure out your boundary, then figure out how to enforce that boundary in a manner that recognizes that the central issue, from her view, is how she feels about it. Make this a daily habit.

Read WISNIFG. Here's a link to a free PDF version. (You lazy slob) Figure out how to defend your boundaries in a way that does not try to use "I'm angry" as a tool. Every single time you turn to "I'm angry," you lose.

You could be turning her down flat, and if you can make her feel good about it, she'll happily acquiesce, even thank you for it. I promise you this is true. I've had my wife bear hug me when I do this successfully, even though I haven't promised to change my stance one iota for her, and this is a high IQ woman who listens to egalitarian podcasts on an almost daily basis.


[–]oytrp25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

this is a high IQ woman who listens to egalitarian podcasts on an almost daily basis.

Does she watch rick and Morty too?

 

Good post. The number of times showing my rage has helped a situation or improved my relationship is exactly zero. Took me a long time to figure that out.

[–]DeepReindeer5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The number of times showing my rage has helped a situation or improved my relationship is exactly zero. Took me a long time to figure that out.

I've seen it help. Giving a fuck about the right thing and reacting with anger, even rage, and having the power to do something about it can be attractive.

But other than that, yeah, point taken. The other 99% of the time you might as well cry. Just as unattractive to a woman.

[–]oytrp2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

All the times I've shown my rage have been directed at her. Maybe that was my problem.

Some of those times I felt in the moment like it was helpful. "That will show her I mean business". Nope. What ever issue it was still persisted.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

IME, the only time rage drops panties is when she perceives an actual threat that you should smash

[–]FoxShitNasty83Captain of the HMS Fucktard2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spiders

[–]johneyapocalypseTold Death to Fuck Off - MRP is easy mode5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Cool post.

A couple observations:

  • The domestic violence shelter example seems to unnecessarily inject "gender wars" into the equation. Would be better with a different example, one not so perfectly targeted at impressionable little boys from TRP.
  • Anger in a man - especially the rage of which you speak - can excite a woman, too. I've seen that tons of times as have many here, I'm sure. That's an apparent contradiction.

Your overall point is well taken.

Stoicism and frame have saved more than my marriage, they've saved my life.

And I didn't need to write anything down, nor would I suggest doing so.

[–]Th3JourneyRed[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I didn't need to write anything down, nor would I suggest doing so.

That's just a recommendation, but if you didn't have a place to really work through your gameplan, I'd be surprised if your rate of implementation wasn't negatively impacted.

Anger in a man - especially the rage of which you speak - can excite a woman, too. I've seen that tons of times as have many here, I'm sure. That's an apparent contradiction.

I thought about including a footnote or something pointing out that some women have abusive pasts/are true masochists, which could make them lean towards finding anger exciting. The Alpha Seed side of the Feminine Imperative desires aggressive/dominant men, too, and in extreme cases could find outright anger/rage attractive. I'd imagine this is mostly true in short term flings, and I'd highly recommend not jumping into an LTR who finds that level of drama enticing (because she will create that level of drama to get the tingles).

The post was getting long, though.

Would be better with a different example, one not so perfectly targeted at impressionable little boys from TRP.

haha, but how am I going to get the clicks?!

On a serious note, I do bring it down to personal conflict in the next paragraph.

[–]maxofreddit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So... how do we parlay this into threesomes?

Great post... This really solidified for me when I figured out that STFU was the best way to stay out of her frame (as well as AA).

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You only get angry at things that really matter to you. If you can get enraged by what she says or does, that means that she can control you with it and automatically decreases your ability to control your surroundings in her eyes.

Women want a man in control. They want a man so in control that even they can’t truly affect the situation because it means: - the man is responsible for what happens and she isn’t. - the man can provide for her and protect her - the man is high SMV to the extent his surroundings (including the other people) accommodate him and not the other way around - he is a sober and mature person.

Losing your shit at a woman is the fastest and most obvious way to fail a shit test. To her, it’s about the same as losing your shit at a toddler. It makes her uncomfortable and judge you.

The only time she should see your real rage is in defense of her and her kids or something like that.

[–]Brickles094 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Once my wife redpilled me about this, she explained me that my mother never agreed with me, even when I was totally right, because of the WAY I said things, always too angry and full of rage, and that I would always lose like that. You are spot on, my friend.

[–]boblee770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Shoot.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED9 points10 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Your women should fear your anger. People should in fact fear your anger. You anger should be something people see so rarely, that when it does come out, they are on guard and usually work with you towards achieving whatever goal their stupidity is preventing you from meeting.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are taught to be terrified of - and disconnected from - their emotions.

Emotions are a far deeper and more powerful warning system than anything the conscious and rational mind can produce.

The "stoic" ideal of floating above emotions is unhealthy and disconnected from reality.

I put "stoic" in quotes because I feel like this has to do a lot more with the modern conception of stoicism than the real thing.

Feels like we're due for a return to an ideals of masculinity embodied in the passions - the shit that makes us animals, not just the shit that makes us human.

[–]markpf735 points6 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Nah - a display of anger is a childish tantrum - people should fear the consequences you impose on them for having stirred anger inside you.

[–]weakandsensitive7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wrong. Controlled anger is the cornerstone of masculinity.

[–]markpf730 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Aka delivering a consequence

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

an ackgnowledgement that the other person is attempting to injure you in some form, and you signal that it's not going to be taken lightly.

It's the purest form of male communication there is

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

My brother is the most calm and chill guy you'd ever meet. He's also very feared. One time, a guy was at his house and started causing a scene. My brother played it cool and worked towards escorting him off the property. The guy threatened my brothers family. He showed his anger and broke the guys neck with one punch. It's things like this why people fear his anger.

Growing up, my dad was a chill dude. Sometimes he was grumpy, but that didn't really matter. On the rare occasion he got mad though, everyone in the house tripped over each other trying to solve whatever it was that had the old man angry.

Neither of these situations are childish tantrums.

[–]markpf732 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes delivering a consequence includes unhinging someone’s jaw or breaking a neck. But it has to be calculated. If not it was just an impulsive immature and expensive move.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you have to consider it, it's not anger, it's play acting.

[–]johneyapocalypseTold Death to Fuck Off - MRP is easy mode0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your brother broke a dude's neck with one punch?

How the fuck did he do that?

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cause he's a beast.

As a cautionary tale though, there can be very real damage done to someone by only hitting them once.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know the old MMA guys from the gym talked about a 60psi force required to break a neck, and some guys punching higher than that, but the neck was always limber enough to absorb that kind of force.

how in the hell do you break a neck with a punch?

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don't have the answer for that. It was a disaster though. Not long before it happened the guys other brother was paralyzed in a car accident.

My brother is very feared in term of how tough he is though. I've heard countless people say how they would never wanna fight him; and lots of them were big dudes.

[–]BostonBrakeJobRoTY1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What's the difference between a "display of anger" and an "imposed consequence", if the consequence is coming from anger?

Are you talking flipping tables vs. withdrawing attention?

[–]markpf732 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A display of anger is rooted in feelings and emotions. It has no logical outcome other than to show how someone got you out of your frame and under your skin.

Delivering a consequence is calculated and has a clear expected response from the recipient. As well as a fully understood consequence for you the deliverer.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

rage is an impulsive expression, or childish tantrum. Anger is a social construct. e.g. If you bang your head off a cinder block, it hurts, but you're not angry. You may have rage, smash the block, but you're not angry. If someone hits you upside the head, you get angry.

When a woman makes you angry, it's not because she injured you, it's because you percieve she is trying to hurt you. The anger is over the betrayal, not the pain.

Want to know why your woman wants angry people to 'just calm down?' It's because she's a good person, even when she isn't. It's not because you're a child, or you're dangerous. Anger is your emotional way of calling her out on shitty behaviour, and she is status/reputation focused above all else.

[–]markpf730 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

An internal barometer

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

doesn't change the anger, only the reaction

[–]Reach180MRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There is a kernel of validity in this post, but the broscience isn't helping your case.

But my main issue is this....

In every single conflict you have with her, write down what she brings up, figure out your boundary, then figure out how to enforce that boundary in a manner that recognizes that the central issue, from her view, is how she feels about it.

Gay. This whole boundary thing that occasionally catches on here is fucking gay. If you need to draw a plurality of "boundaries", you're either wildly insecure or you have an obviously low quality woman. If you need to verbally express to your woman where each of your boundaries are, she doesn't give a fuck. A woman who values your presence will keep herself away from them.

A stern "Don't do that" is all it should take. You don't even need to clarify what "that" is. She knows. And if you have to do that more often than extremely rarely, she doesn't give a fuck.

You have one chit - your presence. And you only play it once.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you don't have to always use the stick, you can easily remove carrots, of course, your woman has to like eating yoru carrot for that to mean anything

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This nails a central theme here. I spent a lot of time obsessing about "boundaries" and how to enforce them...but like some kind of zen fucking koan, at some point you realize you realize the whole thing is a dead end, a maze of unenforceable "rules" that literally no one gives a shit about.

[–]screechhaterMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

aka STFU and lift.

We preach this shit relentlessly. The iron temple is to work the body, but to also clear the mind of the bullshit behaviors

Proper lifting takes heavy discipline- where the body goes, the mind follows, where the mind goes, is where the behaviors take shape, stoicism is a direct result

Stop analyzing and talking, or mind fucking. Start doing.

[–]IRunYourRiver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good post. For newbies, this concept is as essential as it is difficult. Drawing a line in the sand, sticking to it, and doing so in a completely charming and disarming way soinds as difficult as juggling steak knives.

There are the "naturals" out there who have an internalized ability to do this, but for most of us, drawing your line and defending it is an action full of confrontation and seemingly at odds with amused mastery, etc.

My guess is the first key is becoming comfortable having boundaries in the first place - i.e. NMMNG.

[–]BobbyPeruMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The anger has to match the situation, and it has to be from your frame. Then, a consequence should be stated , followed by quick calming down. The calming down part is important because that is where she will try to test your frame, and you can easily diffuse it by calmly saying, “ I said what I had to say, now let’s just drop it.” Broken record and stoic from that point on.

[–]mrheh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wish I saw this 3 days ago.

[–]Frosteecat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's easy to confuse anger and rage. Anger is really fear, generally. We get angry when someone triggers the old feelz we've probably gone a lifetime getting caught up in, in a reactionary childish way. It's a knee-jerk defense mechanism that says "Oh now you've done it--I'm throwing up a wall built out of red faced tears and you better back off. <sob>.

RAGE is the righteous, unHoly summoning of your oldest, primal power. Like a dog baring his teeth when you approach it while it eats. It should be as cold and calculated as a cut diamond. "I am issuing a warning. You do not want or need to know what will happen if you continue on this path. You have been warned." Then be deathly quiet and MAINTAIN EYE CONTACT UNTIL THEIRS BREAKS.

Example: I recently took a new job as manager in a pretty blue collar environment. My second or third day here one of the employees who somehow has a strange sense of entitlement due to the owner's previous passive aggressiveness told me to "get the fuck out of here" while I was trying to point out some production improvements I was targeting. He got butthurt because his son works with him and is a fuckup and the main improvement I wanted was: "stop being fuckups". Only I was civil about it. No profanity. No name calling. It was just time to have their shit addressed. I could see him getting all ANGRY,instantly, because he was redfaced and his eyes were rolling and his voice got higher. Classic signals of loss of control. I had obviously triggered all of his deep seated self doubt and recrimination that he felt because, basically, he's a shitty dad and his kid is a trainwreck.

I didn't give him back the same vibe or try to come over the top like an angry monkey making a display. I waited two to three beats, gave him my best Eastwood 1000 yarder and said "You will not speak to me that way. You are given the basic respect I give to all men I encounter, until shown otherwise. I demand the same. If you want to throw f-bombs at me or talk disrespectfully, we will walk right out that door--indicating nearest door with a nod--and finish this conversation outside. Do you understand?" I didn't raise my voice, just stated the facts. He predictably rolled over and exposed his belly immediately and has been "in line" ever since. Later, the owner (who witnessed the exchange silently) said in private "you handled that really well, I've never seen him back down like that".

The key is to know that the potential for losing your shit is imminent and you must come over the top of your own mechanisms and be ice cold. I've had this happen on many occasions as a youth sports coach--some dad will flip out because my team beat his for the third time that season and they want to project all sorts of weakness back on me. I just laugh ruefully, shake my head and ask if they're done, can they "see the scoreboard from that angle?", etc. etc. I NEVER respond in kind. They get extremely flustered and the FEAR of whatever I triggered is replaced by REAL FEAR of what might happen if they continue to push this very calm psycho.

In regard to marriage or an LTR, ANGER is straight up weak. It is a loss of control. It is a degradation of yourself and the person you are angry at and a complete handover of power. Shit stirrers and paper tigers all fold when you swivel on them and smile and state very calmly what a thin limb they've crawled out on. In my home it is called the Quarterly Shit Test, that is, a woman is wired to test your emotional response in a really fucked up way--"if I get him mad he must still care enough to get mad!" I don't give that back. I will even sometimes say "I know you're feeling upset or conflicted babe, but we got this and these outbursts will not help anything." Then she calms down and goes back to being her "normal" self.

Bottom line: Anger is generally just misplaced fear. Fear has no place in a confrontation. Tap into your icy motherfuggin Eastwood side. Just practice recognizing it as it starts to rise and stomp that shit down.

[–]StimulusPackageOne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good description of frame... but my perspective is just a bit different...

Frame : its about your decisions and actions and not about how you think people will react to what you say or do.

[–]psychosis20200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TL;DR - Your woman experiences your anger as a threat...

She may do, but she also views it as loss of control and if you do it as a reaction to something she did, she has drawn you into her frame and you are investing energy into her. In essence you are being reactive to her and whoever is being reactive in a relationship dynamic is the one in a weaker position. It's the same as parenting, getting angry with children, especially losing control isn't a very effective strategy nor is it with her. I would guess, some women as opposed to seeing it as a threat, actively trigger it to get validation from their partners.

The reason for this is rooted in the innate differences in how men and women perceive each other. Essentially, women tend to perceive men as more threatening than the other way around, and this reaction is exaggerated.

I would argue that it's not perception, it's fact, especially from an evolutionary perspective. Men (on a whole), are and have always been stronger and more aggressive than women, we can thank testosterone for that. Also the fact that (as a rule) men are sexually active and women passive is another reason, on a different level, why men are more threatening to women.

When you start displaying signs of agitation, irritation, and especially rage, the conversation is effectively over, because she perceives that behaviour as a threat that must be mitigated.

Not all women, some women LSE or who experienced verbal or physical abuse as a child could get gina tingles from this excitement. Possibly to try and get you to be physical aggressive with them as they relate that to the love they had from the abusive parent or past partner. I wouldn't want to be in a marriage or LTR with one and if the guy displaying the anger was already in a massively beta frame wouldn't bode well for him. Anger / Rage can be used very sporadically and be a good tool especially if the situation warranted it as it would break state, if you have strong frame.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

My wife knows how to get my rage to come out and does it monthly during her 3 days of pms. She seems accomplished when she manages to get me mad.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

fag

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's first person level analysis. Dogs and horses do that. Now imagine how your wife sees it. That is second order intentionally. Mentally disabled people can do that. Then imagine how your wife sees you And what she thinks are motivating you to do this behavior. That is 3rd level intentionality worthy of our species.

[–]Ahahaha__10 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

Ok but you actually need to back up your claims if you're going to suggest that women are biologically hardwired to perceive men as more threatening than they really are.

[–]psychosis20200 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Okay, I don't know how you could possibly deduce that they aren't biologically hardwired to perceive men as more threatening than they really are?

Imagine any point in history going back to caveman times, through the middle ages to present day, a man and a women who don't know each other are in isolation with no one else around.

Would you say that the women's physiology wouldn't change i.e. increased anxiety and heart rate and other signs of stress. Especially knowing that the man usually from a physical perspective would be able to over power her due to being physically stronger and also potentially pose a sexual threat?

That is hardwired biology anything else i.e. societies rules and consequences or relationships between said man and women are merely laid on top of this underlying hardwiring, this is the perception I refer to.

[–]Ahahaha__10 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

Deduce? I’m just saying that you’re making a biological claim with no scientific proof. It makes sense to me, but it’s time to own your shit aka your argument with some proof.

Otherwise you’re just hamstering your own thoughts.

[–]psychosis20200 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Without spending ages trying to find science to backup the obvious, a quick search led to here;

https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1469&context=risk (Gender Differences in Risk Perception: Broadening the Contexts - September 2001- Jan L. Hitchcock)

(Intro Excerpt)

"Gender differences in risk perception have been described in varied studies, with women more often reporting higher levels of risk as a concern than do men. Women's greater sensitivity to and lower tolerance of risk has also been part of general cultural lore..."

If it is proposed that women have a higher level of risk perception than men surely it stands that they are going to have a higher risk perception to a man than a women as the man poses a far larger sexual threat than a women (the perception of threat in this case isn't purely the assault but the aftermath and long term consequences i.e. potential pregnancy that can arise) - also the man as a rule would be stronger.

The threat of long term consequences (pregnancy) is also a cornerstone in the AF / BB paradigm which is generally accepted here (that a women seeks the alpha for seed and beta for comfort and security) without being backed up by scientific proof when cited?

[–]Ahahaha__10 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is great stuff. But listen, I’m not in the wrong here for asking you to source your arguments. Leave your sass and ego at the door, your argument is better for it. Owning your shit also means backing up your argument.

[–]psychosis20202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Didn't think I through in too much sass or ego, bro. I thought I was just stating the obvious really.

If I add a comment about men being (generally) stronger than women do you want me to cite scientific references to experiments measuring testosterone levels or muscle mass? Would that be owning my own shit?

Regardless, our exchange allowed me to flesh out my point and provide more substance to my comment, so all good bro!

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not in the wrong here for asking you to source your arguments.

actually you are in the wrong sub to "ask for sources" on what the sub considers to established facts (dogma if you want). in this particular case, you take this "but sources bruh" bullshit to absurdity to asking for proof that women see men threatening. your're either a complete sperg or have never really interacted with women very much.

this is not a purple pill debate sub.

ps. if you behave this way IRL; know that it's highly unattractive behavior

[–]Ahahaha__10 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree. Even OP thanked me for making his argument stronger. And this is a forum, discussion is literally what we’re here for. There is no “debate” to this. I asked for proof because it was a bold claim and it turns out it was easily sourced. The sub is better for it, and the dogma is reaffirmed. The last thing we need is this place being an echo chamber.

[–]weakandsensitive[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And this is a forum, discussion is literally what we’re here for.

Wrong. People are here to put in their own work.

You'll be more at home at r/purplepilldebate

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But listen, I’m not in the wrong here for asking you to source your arguments.

Lol, we certainly cannot 'man' if we don't have a chick in a labcoat give us a controlled experement, can we?

You keep looking for authorities, while here, we do it the old fashioned way, observe, act, reflect, calibrate.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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