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Game Theory (self.marriedredpill)

submitted by MrChad_Thundercock

Listen up faggots. Normally, I say fuck Theory post. But this is important so listen up. I’ve always been a fan of Game Theory and starting to make connections with mrp.

In Game theory, there’s two types of Games: Finite and Infinite Games. A Finite game is defined as known players, fixed rules, and an agreed upon objective. For example, baseball. We all agree on the rules that who ever has more runs at the end of the game is the winner and we all go home. No one can say that “if we just play 3 more innings, I can beat you”. An Inifinite Game is defined as known AND unknown players, the rules are changeable, and the objective is to keep the Game in play – to perpectuate the Game. It’s limitless. In Infinite Games, players drop out of the Game when they run out of the will or the resources to continue to play.

When 2 Finite players or 2 Inifinte players are playing against each other, then the Game is stable. Everything is cool. Infinite Games, for example, would be the Cold War. There couldn’t be a winner or loser so they just kept the Game in play. We didn’t win the Cold War, the Soviets just dropped out when they ran out of resources.

Problems start to occur when a Finite Player plays against an Infinite Player – because one is playing to win while the other is playing to keep on playing. In this case, the Finite player will always find themselves in an arkward or complex situation. This is comparable to the Vietnam War. We were fighting to win while the North Vietnimease were fighitng to survive. A very different set of standards! In this situation, Finite players will leave and drop out of the Game. Same with McGregor versus Mayweather match, obvously it was a staged event for the payday, but McGregor was trying (foolishly, of course) to knock Mayweather out, while Mayweahter just danced around the ring to to prolong the fight. That way, everyone gets paid faggots.


[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Every now and then someone opens a new door to look in on old, repeated and yet important ideas. This is one of those times.

If I was selling this post on amazon I’d include this excerpt;

Eventually, when your SMV increases above hers, dread and competition anxiety become a reality to her, you become a dominate & attractive man, she’ll be forced to start playing a Finite Game in order to “win” you back. She knows she can’t continuously play the Infinite Game because she’s running out of time – you might start fucking that younger tight secretary at work. Therefore, she’ll reward her prize, YOU, with sex. She’ll be forced to continually drain your balls for the duration of the Game – as long as you play the Infinite Game.

Nice job

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree - it's rare to see something new. This is good stuff.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I love game theory. I got pretty interested in it after watching "A Beautiful Mind". One of the more interesting aspects I got from that was the scene where he's describing what ultimately became The Nash Equilibrium.

Marriage is essentially a Nash Equilibrium. We can both either be in it for ourselves, here you end with a classic, beta-dead bedroom. You can be in it ala dark triad, or she openly cucks you; both have potential to end in disaster, or you can both execute according to your best self interests and cooperate. Here you maximize potential and become, the Alpha Provider.

In business it's called win-win. You negotiate when parties have disparate desires, but come to a agreement where both needs are maximized. In marriage, I prize sexual access, while she prizes security and leadership. We can both give up very little, and get what we want by maximizing what the other desires most.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I was thinking more of the iterated prisoners dilemma

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Isn't the prisoners dilemma a Nash Equilibrium problem?

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think so, the best possible outcome is when both parties choose to work together as a team, not their own benefit. But for beta husbands who don’t understand red pill, they will get fucked if they tried a win win with wife... probably because she’s not playing by the same rules. She doesn’t give a fuck if you win, she doesn’t love you, only wants to maximize her resources so she can consume more and more, and navigates the world by her feelzings.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Adam Smith is only partially right expediency in the procurement of a thing works best when individuals look out for themselves and the group.

If we all avoid the blonde, we all win

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not great at game theory, I only know bits n pieces. I thought Nash was the stalemate of peoples decisions, where no new Moves are an improvement on the status quo

Iterated prisoners dilemma was punishment with reversion if the other party stops playing selfish, or tit for tat

They may be related, I'm not. Smart enough to knoe

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mmslp talks about prisoners dilemma. Husband keeps playing his nice card everyday, because he thinks that’s the best play, but soon his wife starts treating him like a doormat.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Win win sounds great in theory. But this right here:

“or you can both execute according to your best self interests and cooperate”...

bullshit.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not saying everyone's best interest is not at odds but there are cases where they are not at odds.

A classic example is Jimmy and Sally fighting over an orange. Jimmy's mom comes in an plays Solomon and splits it in half. Jimmy walks away grumbling, "awe man, I wanted to squeeze it for juice."

Sally grumbles, "And I wanted the skin to bake with"

Here both wanted different goals from the same thing. A win-win could have been had.

I go into a car dealership, there's no win-win to be had. I am there for the lowest price, they are there for maximum profit. Agreed here would be a place where you need to play win-loose.

Certainly there's points in a relationship where win-win can be seen, and where win-loose can be seen also.

You go into it, maximizing both, being careful not to let one interfere with the other.

My wife and I make a better team to raise kids. So there we cooperate. Here she goes into it needing resources and stability, I go into it needed care taking and the assurance that my progeny aren't abused by outsiders. We both want our genes to move onto the next generation essentially. Win-win in my book, but different reasons.

My wife is not a high earner. It's time for me to take a new job? She has no say, as her earning potential could hold me back. So I need to push forward regardless of whether she thinks she'll be better off or not. In her case she'd see it as a win-loose.

In the end, it's always the same statement for me. "Maximize value for your effort and resources."

[–]Ahahaha__109 points10 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Your repressed homosexuality is showing.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fuck you

[–]Ahahaha__108 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You wish buddy.

[–]banabananadarling0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

This got me thinking...

Do you think redpill works for homosexual relationships?

[–]Ahahaha__102 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I don't see any reason why improving your self value and steering your own ship wouldn't be good in any relationship.

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

any reason

If the woman wants a weak, compliant Beta to boss around, then improving your value can cause her to abandon ship although this is quite rare if you manage the comfort tests.

[–]Ahahaha__100 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why would you be with a woman like that?

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You shouldn't but it is the vast majority of marriages today.

[–]Ahahaha__100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any proof to support that claim?

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

woman wants a weak, compliant Beta to boss around

and,

vast majority of marriages today

i don't think so. don't blame women for men being cunts.

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you have a classic "bottom" and a classic "top" who are attracted to one another because of the male-female energy polarization then the answer is YES!

The basic Red Pill strategy is to polarize the male/female energy to enhance attraction. However, it is a rare (male) homosexual relationship that is a /r/deadbedrooms scenario so there is often no need to "charge" or "polarize" the yin and yang of sexuality.

Gay guys just do it and studies suggest that gay females don't do it much at all. So I have never seen a gay guy on MRP bragging about rekindling sex with his partner (because it never went away). However, I am sure I have seen a couple of posts from Butch dyke Fems who rekindled the sex by polarizing her masculinity.

[–]alphasixfourGrinding0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well written and forced me to look at concepts from a different angle. Been playing WAY too many finite games in my life. Fuck that shit.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I used to work with an older marine who once told me to be like the giraffe - while the tigers, lions, etc are fighting in the jungle, the giraffe has a long neck and can look over the all the bullshit fighting, and look down the road to where he wants to be. Basically, don’t ever get involved in petty fighting that people do, office politics, gossip, but instead look down the road and where you need to be for your future self. Which training do I need? What position do I really want? And work on those things. Always play the long game, not finite games where you must win daily fights. Of course, while playing the infinite game, I also played finite games of office politics, but in my favor ...

[–]alphasixfourGrinding1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

good analogy. thank you.

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post, thanks!

[–]AexNBacon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's some interesting thoughts on how we spend our time, how we interact with each other, and what we want out of life in these concepts!

I highly recommend reading a small book - Finite and Infinite Games - by James Carse - if anyone here would like to go a little further down this line of thinking.

https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse-ebook/dp/B004W3FM4A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528238379&sr=8-1&keywords=finite+and+infinite+games

It's been on my shelf for a long time now - I'm excited to see pieces of it in the wild!

[–]simbarlionMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very nice.

[–]OrangeFury90-1 points0 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

Although I'm not a frequent visitor of this sub, and I don't view relationships as games - I DO really see yoir point! Thanks for that. I, on my own, have never understood the "happy wife, happy life" phrase and to me it makes the guy seem really weak. Like he's insincerely doimg the basics.. you know? Women pick up on incincerity. They also usually have a lot.of.love to give if you can get to that level. Anyway, basically I'm just saying I know women aren't attracted to weak.

Sorry to ramble, but like I said I read your whole post and I really saw some value in it. But on the happy wife thing, its phrased in such a selfish way. If you want to make your wife happy, and you do it genuinely (not like doing b**** work, but by doing things she loves) it changes the dynamic of the relationship. It keeps the romance going. I'm single now so, of course this is on the theoretical side.. However, if you can keep the relationship new and interesting AND show her you love her by making her happy (genuinely) that's the goal. That's where its not a game anymore and you're both bettering each other symbiotically.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED13 points14 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Find a girl, tie the knot, pump a few kids into her and tell me if showing her you love her by making her happy (genuinely) is still working for you. You're on a form of men who have done just that and are now reaping the rewards of a shitty marriage.

[–]redsprinklersystem9 points10 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

This struck a real chord with me, because its exactly what brought me here.

I was literally in the disney dream - shacked up, married and procreated with my first love. It worked great for almost 15 years until my paradigm began to crumble. I love the bones of the woman, I'm not ashamed to admit it. Making her happy made me happy and all was well, until it wasn't.

I think we just fell into that rut. The kids were around 6 and 9 y/o and nothing new was happening (avoiding being boring is the centre of my map). I realised that I was miserable. Getting that validation I thrived on appeared as a game of roulette, and my bets (gestures) had shifted from 2:1 red/black to 3:1 '12s' and lower.

The epiphany that made me swallow the pill was that trying to make her happy was just the wrong tactic. Even when I succeeded in that, the covert contract of validation was a gamble. MRP taught me that ME must be my first priority. I make myself happy and she may be happy to come along for the ride.

Whaddayaknow? It only went and fucking worked. SHOCKER!!! Crazy huh?

[–]EducationalDentist0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Phew! your life is an /r/nonononoyes

Edit: added one more no. Thx /u/redsprinklersystem.

[–]redsprinklersystem1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

?? Link to private, invite only sub. Care to elaborate?

[–]EducationalDentist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fixed--added another "no". Thx.

[–]redsprinklersystem1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Got it. In the timeframe of about 2015-2017 thats absolutely spot on. Before that I was in blissful bluepill ignorance with a (lucky find) great woman. Can't help but wonder sometimes how things would be if I realised this stuff 15-20 years ago though.....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

MRP taught me that ME must be my first priority. I make myself happy and she may be happy to come along for the ride.

there's another analogy i used to use to help friends out before i found trp/mrp aside from the "wild lion" analogy, and that was "be a train, not a taxi." that is exactly what you just described

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

The only time it doesn't "work" is:

  1. If the relationship is so far gone not even Dr. Frankenstein could revive it; or,

  2. If the man goes Rambo and drives away the woman either because she wants an optionless Beta to boss around or because he scares her so much that she shuts down (and then she will usually desperately try to "fix it" and it "fails" only if he responds to this meta comfort test with IDGAF and doubling down on rubbing it in her face that he has "options;" or,

  3. If the man improves, becomes more attractive to women in general, and realizes that he can do better so he dumps his future cat lady for a younger, prettier model.

Other than that? Becoming a better man almost always "works" and you could argue it "worked" in the "failed" cases as well. Not every relationship can or should be fixed.

[–]NJA4242 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Can you explain your second point a little more? I'm a little confused. Are you saying he dreads too much through improvement that the woman now believes he is way higher in SMV and she tries to comfort him. But this in itself fails if he continues to dismiss her comfort?

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, the "comfort" is from failed Comfort Tests when a guy goes "Rambo." It is dismissing her cries for comfort and reassurance that creates the distance and drives her away. The problem is many women respond to increased "Alpha" not with classic "comfort tests" but with atypical "shitty comfort tests" (that is, comfort tests wrapped deep inside a rude shit test and surrounded by shit that she wants you to dig through so she can laugh and be reassured by her power to affect you).

I see a lot of guy who treat Shitty Comfort Tests like Shit Tests and I always say the same thing. You are not going to agree and amplify your way out of a woman who thinks your commitment is not solid.

Often they throw these right before sex when your dick is hard enough to cut diamonds.

If the man goes Rambo and drives away the woman either because she wants an optionless Beta to boss around or because he scares her so much that she shuts down

Going Rambo drives away the woman in many cases. I think the most common reason going Rambo fails is because the wife "settled" and wants a "nice" and safe Beta Boy to push around and give him a never ending and increasing list of nonsensical items to do. Therefore when a Beta becomes more Alpha, sometimes the women leave. They don't want to be "submissive" or be a "wife." They want to be the boss and the little boy who is trying to "man up" gets in her way. Often if the man holds frame the woman will realize that she only wanted to be the boss because she wanted power. If the man becomes the boss and leaves her some power she often comes around to the new reality.

The second way going Rambo drives a woman away is when she essentially gives up. She feels that some effort is going to have to be made in order to keep this new hot man and she doesn't want to make any effort- because it "just happens" and the only effort made should be the man making all the effort, not the woman.

[–]NJA4242 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you, that actually makes a lot more sense. As for the "shitty comfort tests" what do these look like? And how do we meet them successfully?

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We are still working on that one because the concept has only been talked about a few times. It looks to me like every response and every relationship is different when she starts to do this. One common theme is that it requires leadership and an iron frame.

"shitty comfort tests" what do these look like

When she is bitching and whining and complaining and pushing all your known buttons but is subconsciously trying to get you to hold her and reassure her that it is going to be fine.

I think you have to train her away from this maladaptive behavior pattern. Perhaps it worked in the past and you rewarded her for it?

[–]NJA4242 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I myself am far from married but I came here for extra reading so I'd take what I say with a grain of salt. However the standard RP move would be to remove attention due to unnecessary drama but that would almost certainly exacerbate the scenario.

I also believe that comfort tests should be matched with comfort but there is a fine line. The training seems like the hardest part of it all to me.

I'd propose to light the fuse, if you get her going just enough to start to overtly communicate you can flip it to comfort.

I would say I'm in a bit of a Rambo situation right now myself. And so far I've tried to ignore it and address it with some level of comfort. Both didn't work but with the comfort I gave a tiny push at the end which may have led it to nose dive because the next time I saw her she was overtly bitchy

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the standard RP move would be to remove attention due to unnecessary drama but that would almost certainly exacerbate the scenario.

Exactly! I tackled this issue in my post just 5 minutes ago.

[–]OrangeFury900 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Ok I will! Seen it done correctly by parents and grandparents before them.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

The days of your grandmother loving your grandfather are over.

[–]OrangeFury90-2 points-1 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I know I've irritated ppl with new ideas, I'm sorry - trying to be a respectful visitor. But you're saying human nature has fundamentally changed itself? Not just the environment? I find that hard to believe. Human nature itself is the same right? We're just more divided by tech.

[–]SorcererKingMRP SAGE - MRP MODERATOR3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I know I've irritated ppl with new ideas

No, you've irritated them with OLD ideas.

you're saying human nature has fundamentally changed itself?

No, culture has. Human nature is the constant; what is considered to be the range of women's socially acceptable choices is what's different. That's why we need RP subs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Human nature is the constant; what is considered to be the range of women's socially acceptable choices is what's different.

Yes, Well Said.

[–]OrangeFury90-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So.. when you're married you're not dealing with the human or the actual person, but instead you're dealing with culture. If so WOW #mindblown

I will need a few days to see if you have overlooked something or if you are right. wow, when I'm dating someone, don't consider her .. consider culture only.. Ok! Point taken.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What a shame you missed the point. Too bad. We all wasted our time.

[–]OrangeFury90-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. But hear me out - listen, I said "new ideas" because you're in a fishbowl. Every Reddit is one. That's why its important to diversify. I build on top of old knowledge, instead of start from scratch. Its crucial to know when you're in a fisbowl, I actually have learned from this post.

So, despite the sarcasm I really truly appreciate that you spent your time wisely with me!! (Not wasted). I'm going to take aspects of this with me and add it to what I already know about life.

Last point - Maybe its natural for you to think you wasted time by having an honest discussion. Having patience is beta right? Its a blue pill to have patience if you're in a fishbowl. Again, thanks for breaking the rule since it was enriching!

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not irritated, just trying to get you some pussy and save you years of misery.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just another delusional TradCon romanticising a time period that didn't actually exist. He's not going to get it, don't waste your time.

[–]OrangeFury901 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I got it u/MrChad_Thundercock ! Thanks for explaining calmly. In the pursuit of pussy not neccessarily love you gotta play the infinite game. Hell, even in a long term relationship its true too.. play the long game because you're not tiring yourself out in the process. Its about sustainability.

Isn't that exactly why single dudes don't need to look for a girl, they need to have girls look for them?

[–]RedPillCoachMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Human nature has not changed but society has changed. The incentives for Grandma to love, respect, and stay faithful to Grandpa have been taken away completely. In fact society encourages "feeemale indepence" and you go girl-isms, and a husband is "not entitled" to sex with his wife. Society at the time encouraged Grandma to be faithful, respectful, and sexualy available to her husband.

Red Pill, unlike current society, takes into account BOTH female and male nature. Society only considers bad male behavior while excusing bad female behavior- and if you dare even think that then you must be a virgin whose mother did not hug you enough.

[–]OrangeFury900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah dude, clearly. I see men portrayed terribly in almost every movie or show I watch.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Glad you saw some value in my post.

“show her you love her by making her happy (genuinely) that's the goal.”

Not the goal. That’s the blue pill narrative -brain washing- coming out.

Want to read something that will blow your mind? Sidebar===>

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We may just unplug this one after all....

[–]OrangeFury900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think there's more detail between "blue pill" and actual love. It may have to do with nofap and testosterone levels (which women notice subconsciously).

But like I said very interesting! Its the long game. Also, I'll read sidebar.

[–]mattizie1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Happy wife happy life refers to sex.

Keep her sexually satisfied and she won't be such a bitchy PITA.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It’s happy LIFE happy wife...

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep, or ... happy husband happy wife

[–]OrangeFury900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both are so much better phrases!! Even if we disagree on some minute details I always have cringed with the "happy wife, happy life" phrase. Its cringe worthy.

[–]mattizie0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Even better.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Happy sexually satisfied husband, happy life.

[–]mattizie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not always.

If your partner has sex just to keep her husband satisfied, but doesn't actually WANT to do it, she'll be very unhappy.

My SO does this sometimes. But I've made a point of refusing sex with her unless she does it because she actually wants sex, and she realises that just because we had sex, it doesn't change anything in my behaviour, and she can't expect anything back (except a good fuck). I kind of can't help feeling more mellowed out after sex, but I won't do anything I otherwise wouldn't have done.

The sex is better, and we're both happier as a result.

All women will attempt to weaponise sex, you have to turn it down when you realise what she's trying to do, or keep on being the same arsehole after sex, and put up with a few tantrums when she realises that you're not going to do what she wants after she "gave you sex".

Sex is something that happens because you both want it, that's it.

[–]mattizie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not always.

If your partner has sex just to keep her husband satisfied, but doesn't actually WANT to do it, she'll be very unhappy.

My SO does this sometimes. But I've made a point of refusing sex with her unless she does it because she actually wants sex, and she realises that just because we had sex, it doesn't change anything in my behaviour, and she can't expect anything back (except a good fuck). I kind of can't help feeling more mellowed out after sex, but I won't do anything I otherwise wouldn't have done.

The sex is better, and we're both happier as a result.

All women will attempt to weaponise sex, you have to turn it down when you realise what she's trying to do, or keep on being the same arsehole after sex, and put up with a few tantrums when she realises that you're not going to do what she wants after she "gave you sex".

Sex is something that happens because you both want it, that's it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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