[FR] The Emotional Rollercoaster

anythinginc · 2017-02-01T22:34:19+00:00

u/thefamilyalpha has a good post about "keeping her on her toes."

That is half the benefit of AA and AM and cocky/funny, it gives you the opportunity to create 100 little emotional spikes throughout the day.

A) If you are unlikable and low value then those are just microaggressions that will piss her off. B) Without frame and charisma you won't be able to hold your own in the little mini-emotional-whirlwinds they can create and blow the winds in your favour.

That's why the usual advice is lift, become valuable, become attractive, build a frame, STFU at first, and at some point your feet are just going to slide right in those AA/AM/cocky-funny shoes, and then a little while later you post here amazed about the first time she called you an "asshole" with a smile on her face and a gleam in her eyes and still fucked you an hour later.

Protip: Something I've been doing once or twice a week recently...

I walk up to her and do a martial arts type thing where I sweep her legs out from under her and gently lead her to the floor, ending up on top of her. While doing this I yell something in an announcer's voice like "SWEEP THE LEGS!" or "She's in trouble now Steve, the champ has her down!" or right before I initiate I say "baby, there is something I have to do" and she gets to say "NO!" and halfheartedly protest on the way down.

She's a little annoyed, and she kinda wants to be pissed, but she's smiling, and she can't help it, she's amused. I steal a kiss, pull her to her feet, and give her an attaboy butt slap while telling her she needs to work on her ground game.

Anyway, keep it up bro. Twice in two weeks after 1.5 years has to be feeling pretty good. It's a long road, she might not be worth it, but you are.

BluepillProfessor · 2017-02-01T22:56:45+00:00

This was my house my family, and I wouldn't stand for anyone threatening it.

Death before dishonor.

you will never, ever, threaten something like that again.

Where is the DEER in this exchange? I like the direct talk. Not so much the choking up but it is nice to see a man find his balls once in a while.

I'm not doing a good job of giving her those emotional highs and lows when we're not in a huge blowout.

Maybe. Or maybe you just need to work more on seduction. It sounds like you have her attention and it sounds like your providing plenty of drama.

She's bored out of her mind. That's on me.

Dance, monkey, dance. Why is her being bored your fault and even your responsibility? You are her husband, not her paid entertainment.

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2017-02-02T01:48:30+00:00

I'm seeing so many attaboy responses here and now it's pissing me off. Can no one else see the blatant manipulation here?

OP once tried to kill himself. Wife knows this and doubtless knows that it's a sensitive topic. OP dares to not do the dishes one morning. Wife erupts into a text shit storm, demands that OP bring up the topic for discussion himself that evening (power move by her). He obeys. She launches into two hours of ranting - which he listens to - before finally deciding that he's had enough and tells her he's leaving . . . . And she chooses that point to threaten to kill herself, know full well that will push his buttons. OP immediately changes his mind and returns to her, confirms to her by his emotional response that she pushed the right button, and then OP rewards her with yet more emotional tampons. There's nothing positive about any of this.

OP, she's got you on a string. Next time, just walk out of the room.

2ndal · 2017-02-01T22:18:08+00:00

Good FR.

I resonate a lot with this. Our wives sound very, very similar.

She's bored out of her mind. That's on me.

This exactly what I am dealing with: I am a boring fuck and my wife is bored out of her fucking mind, so she creates drama for entertainment. In the past, I couldn't resist and would entertain the fuck out of her by falling so deeply into her frame during these arguments which entertained her but fucking gutted me--with the bonus of also distancing her attraction for me! Now I am drawn into her frame less, which is better for me but less entertaining for her. I also get a similar version of the "stop talking to me like a fucking therapist" line from time to time.

[deleted] · 2017-02-01T23:13:08+00:00

Dude, I like where you're going. So what if you DEER'd a bit and got choked up. I actually like that you showed genuine emotion! Let it fire you up! I see too many eunuchs walking around and, my friend, you are not going to be one of them!

resolutions316 · 2017-02-02T03:04:32+00:00

You're getting support because you are breaking the mold, seeing a new way. You are getting shat on because you have no control, your frame is dry tinder twigs, and you're still enabling her.

You show potential...now turn that into results.

resolutions316 · 2017-02-01T23:32:33+00:00

I take your point - I also realize I'm very much still in her frame.

Re: your alternative, I see what you're saying, but as long as I'm married I would never take away support for either my wife or kids. I made an oath and those are my responsibilities. I'd rather just get divorced.

Sapphire_Jizz · 2017-02-02T00:02:29+00:00

Great FR and some serious progress.

I have a critique of your thinking, though:

You're still wrapped up in her frame (which is a-OK being only 2-3 months in). You're still playing the 'nice guy' / 'problem fixer' / 'captain-save-a-ho' role and I don't think you're aware that it's still coming out, despite you being aware of your life-long nice guy syndrome and having this catharsis with her.

Toward the end of your post you're taking ownership for basically everything... which is exactly what you said the problem was at the beginning of your post. Okay, maybe not everything, but you somehow arrive to these conclusions:

I've initiated several times since, but only had sex once. Why? Because I'm not doing a good job of giving her those emotional highs and lows when we're not in a huge blowout.

I think you're placing too much importance on building a daily "emotional-rollercoaster" with her, instead of simply becoming more attractive and employing the levels of dread properly. You shouldn't have to rile her dopamine receptors every time you want to fuck. Ideally, she should genuinely desire you (because you've made yourself more attractive) and she should genuinely fear losing you (because you have real dread going.) These things take time. So, yeah, you don't have to take ownership of her daily emotional ride. It's better to be a man of action and purpose, which naturally creates dread, and then her hamster does that emotional work for your. Of course, you want to push-pull with her regularly. Just don't buy into having to do it 24/7... that's in her frame and caring about her emotions essentially. You don't want to care about her emotions, you want to amuse yourself with her emotions by messing around and being fun.

She's bored out of her mind. That's on me. Just like everything else, attraction-wise, has been on me this whole time. Only this experience really drove that point home for me.

Yes, absolutely you must generate tingles everyday. But again, I fear that you are focusing too much on her. She's bored... yes, you can entertain her and give her tingles, but that might comprise 30 minutes to an hour of the day. Don't feel compelled to constantly be trying to turn her on to allay her boredom. Her overall well-being and sexual prowess are ultimately her responsibility. She has to work for it too, dude. It's early in your journey though, and you admit that you still have one-itis for her -- this feels like a one-itis-y train of thought, and thus a thought born of her frame. Absolutely woo her when you'd like to, but at some point she, by her own volition, is gonna have to shit or get off the pot -- keep up with you, or risk getting dropped.

As I wrote this, I realized that you probably didn't mean the points I made about what you wrote, but it struck me when I read it. If you get something out of this, great. Good luck.

resolutions316 · 2017-02-02T04:21:14+00:00

Yes, OP I remember you. What I said to you before was:

OP, you are a Total Pushover Prince. The sooner you get past your nice guy bullshit, the better chance you have of saving yourself, and maybe even your marriage. Best

It is a slow process and you are making progress by making mistakes.

Reread my quote above; my advice to you is the same. Best

HitEmWiththeHein · 2017-02-02T00:38:16+00:00

There comes a point where you're using too much carrot and not enough stick. She's a SAHM. If she has a problem with doing a couple dishes she can gtfo. My main problem with the post is it sounds like you're not prepared to walk out and that means you are choking on the pill.

Murphbah · 2017-02-01T22:39:41+00:00

You've provided some great insight here. I'm not married, but these are still valuable lessons I can internalize and remember for my LTR right now and in the future.

Good shit brudda

BlackthorneSamurai · 2017-02-02T03:29:47+00:00

All these comments and not one that addresses how you need to frame this from the start. You earn the money, do the dishes and it sounds like do quite a lot around the house. Why not just start with "I'm tired and the dishes are going to have to wait unless you want to help out and do them". Then if she wants to fight about it you take it to her and show her you got a set of nuts. The goal for your frame should be that you can behave how you want within reason and she is responsible for her own emotions and happiness. Help her by directing her to therapy or whatever but don't be a bitch and let her manipulate you because your nice and love her sooo much.

drty_pr · 2017-02-02T05:31:43+00:00

Solid FR man. My only advice is less carez and feelz. Let it happen man naturally. It'll become your default setting after a while.

My wife can't trigger anger in me if her life depended on it. Mainly because I know her emotions will subside and she will get over it. When she does, I walk in and give her a nice kiss, hard hug, give her a look that says "I love you", and carry on. She can't admit how much she loves this.

Not saying your sex life will get fixed, but life will be far more pleasant. Keep on keeping on man.

OldRoke · 2017-02-02T07:51:25+00:00

I think you might be right with the theory on this - by just following the rules, reading the lines of a sheet and doing everything to a T - you are not exciting. This post has been useful to me, because it's made me think how so far I myself have been quite robotic in my advances. If it seems like your reading off a script it must kill tingles.

Although you sound much too deep in her frame still: her telling you about the conversation and then again luring you back in with the emotional words on the stairs.

What's your plan to work on moving forward now mate?

En_sigma · 2017-02-03T14:23:31+00:00

okay, this is why I don't post much. Cuz I can't see how anything you did helped.

If my wife screamed "don't you dare" about anything I was planning on doing, you can be dammed sure I would do it. If she screamed that she would be driving into a wall cuz she was mad? The bank on third looks like it has pretty solid walls, and it should be closed by now. Or maybe, no, take my car, it is almost out of gas anyway and yours is full.

Of course when the lights came on for me, I flat out told her I was done. She could act like a civilized person or GTFO and she needed to make the decision then. No tears, no regrets, no soul-to-soul conversation just "you've gone full retard and if you can't turn it off...meh...have fun with that"

weakandsensitive · 2017-02-04T09:42:30+00:00

everything I had to maintain the small amount of frame I could.

if you don't have frame, at least admit it instead of pretending you do for some bullshit sense of pride.

I can help with the kids,

guys - stop this bullshit. you don't help with the kids. it's not your role. your role is to lead, to teach, to encourage. your role isn't to change the diapers and baby them - yes you can help with that, but it's supplementary and should be on an as really needed basis, not a because it's convenient for her basis. don't believe me? try remove those duties from your wife and getting a babysitter/nanny/au pair to handle it. see how much she takes it as a personal shot. it's akin to hiring someone to clean the house - it's an insult to her point of pride.

the fact of the matter is that it does absolutely nothing to make you more attractive and has plenty of opportunity to emasculate you if you're constantly doing it. if you never do it, you're negligent, but if you're constantly doing diapers and feeding and all that other jazz - how attractive do you think that really is. compare that versus when you're throwing your child in the air, when you're teaching them how to play and explore, when you're playing around in the water and bonding with the youth.

wake up early to make everyone breakfast and feed the kids so she can sleep in, do all the dishes at night, pay her each week so she has spending money, etc, etc, etc - somehow she is always the one sacrificing, and I am the one who "has it easy."

above applies for everything else too. make enough money where you can hire for all those things as necessary and demonstrate that your wife really is optional if that's what she wants to be. be the man who can get things taken care of, not the man who has to do everything. the owner is much more attractive than the janitor.

Not gonna bother repeating myself, but you should read these two. It should cover everything you need to know about talking versus STFU.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/51pfvj/talking_why_you_shouldnt_do_it_and_why_you/

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/5gyy3u/stfu_and_you/

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2017-02-01T23:09:50+00:00

So much bullshit hamstering in this post, including your lessons learned. If you need more than a handful of words to describe the problem and solution, you're on the wrong track. In this case: Huge shit test; I failed it miserably by taking her shit seriously; lesson learned-STFU already.

Everything about this post is in her frame. How many paragraphs can you waste spinning out the deep emotional currents washing through her heart and spirit? It's like listening to a circle of women regarding a soap opera. None of that is real. Just hamstering.

Let me suggest a different approach to this scene. I'm not recommending it, just throwing it out to expand your view of the possible. You come home. She bitches about the dishes. You decide you've heard enough and just leave for two weeks. At first your phone blows up. She explodes on you. You ignore and stay away. After two weeks, she realizes she has no job, no skills, no support from you, no attractive future, and she realizes keeping you around is her best option. She finds an excuse to talk to you and wants to talk it through. You're friendly but you continue to play it cool. You both realize that it's in your hands where the relationship goes from here.

If that's not a realistic scenario then you need to improve yourself until it is.

askmrp30 · 2017-02-05T23:31:00+00:00

Wow, your wife is just like mine. Gets bored, starts drama, very stubborn frame, lots of yelling/disrespect/threats, crumbles as soon as I demonstrate IDGAF, cries, then we have passionate make-up sex.

The drama is what gets her off, but it drains me. I want her to stop, and I'd rather have no sex if it means no drama. My problem like yours is I'm a doormat. I can never fully implement IDGAF. I always yield once the waterworks start or the death/suicide threats begin rolling. The harder IDGAF, the harder she tries to get me to yield until I finally yield.

It's really really hard to maintain frame in that situation. The part where you walk up the stairs and she yells a suicide threat is an experience I can relate to 100%. I wonder if you should have just kept walking up the stairs and ignored her? Because when you turn back and give her attention, you get wrapped into her frame, and then she knows "any time he walks away from me I just have to shout out a suicide threat and he'll come running back like a good little doggie"

BobbyPeru · 2017-02-01T23:21:06+00:00

You found the right path and need to do some finetuning.

Stop having all these discussions that look straight out of a fogging manual. Sure, sometimes they help. Sometimes I just roll my eyes and turn on my heels and say nothing.

If you are talking alot or lecturing or arguing its wrong. Use actions as thats the language of power that bitches speak fluently.

I have given disaproving looks and simply said Stop it.

PurpleVeteran · 2017-02-01T23:29:06+00:00

To me, this is a fight - a needless emotional blowout over problems that are easily solved. For her, it's a huge adrenaline rush - dopamine flooding her brain as she hits intense emotional highs and lows.

The problem is that you don't really understand why she's so frustrated. And maybe she doesn't either, but her emotions are real... and so is the up and down. That's why she fucked you... because she needed some comfort and connection after the fight.

But your tl;dr was that you fought and then got laid. Except that in a week or so, you'll see that nothing was really fixed here. She's still going to be frustrated, and you're still going to try to fog when she wants to communicate.

Not sure why these things come in waves, but this Jack10 post was just referenced elsewhere today. It's nearly a year old, and could have been written for you today. Please take the time to read it.

resolutions316 · 2017-02-04T15:36:23+00:00

You're right - I don't have those plans in place. If we are being brutally honest, I have not taken any steps that ASSUME or ACCEPT that my relationship might not work out.

It's been a tough journey for me. Much of my self-identity was wrapped up in the BP "provider" role - providing for anyone other than myself.

It's a process for me, and I accept that. I never knew anything else was possible. But I am working on it every day. And I absolutely do not accept that my starting and end point are the same place.

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2017-02-02T00:16:31+00:00

Good on you for growing a pair. Apart from the choking up part (boys don't cry is what I tell my son and what my father told me so I will say it to you as well - never do that shit again, I would rather chew off my own tongue than cry over a bitch) you did well to draw a line. Punish bad behaviour immediately and severely. Women fucking love boudaries. She wants you to stand up to her and contain her emotions. She cannot help being dramatic, when she turns into liquid and begins spilling all over the place, she wants you to scoop her back up and contain that shit. You do that by being as solid as a rock. If you need to be harsh and adjust your tone of voice, that is good, so long as you sound like the boss. Dealing with emotional behaviour with more emotion is like throwing gas onto a fire. Remember she is just a child, she needs boundaries, guidance, cuddles and fun. I treat minor bad nehaviour with a slap on the ass and a knowing joke, I punish very bad behaviour like Negan (without the violence), I do not tolerate my boundaries being crossed. I reward good behaviour with cuddles and nice meals.

drty_pr · 2017-02-02T01:38:17+00:00

She's controlling the drama.

Start creating your own, so you can controll it. Start learning push/pull.

And if you really want to get hard on her, when she gets all uppity, put your hand on her neck. Don't choke her, hold her in place and keep eye contact. bonus points if you can pin her to a wall and talk like a pissed off dad.

It's something primal. It's also my go to during any hate-fuck.

[deleted] · 2017-02-01T22:01:57+00:00

Cool story bro.