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In Japan, there is an art style born out of necessity. When a pot or prized ceramic piece is broken, instead of throwing it away or discarding it, the piece is repaired with highly ornamental glue of lacquer and gold dust. Sometimes a piece is replaced with another piece from something else, but in the end the result is the same. The new piece is made whole again with its flaws highlighted; even celebrated.

From this, a philosophical style has been born, the philosophy of embracing the imperfect; highlighting the flaw. It can be a powerful tool to win an argument, or even reset the standard thinking.

 

I Got This

A few years ago, my wife had planned a party for our youngest kids. Like always, she over committed and her planning was off. Sometimes I rescue her; sometimes I let her flail to learn a lesson. At this point I’d determined that she wasn’t going to fail and a rescue was not needed. I was doing my usual Saturday morning routine of lawn chores when she came outside and got into command mode, “Go down to [Friends house], and pick up the big coffee pot.”

“Um, no thanks. I’m right in the middle of something.”

“Don’t you see I’m running around like crazy here? You never help me when I need it. I’m trying to do something nice here for the kids.”

SHIT TEST! some of the more inexperienced of you may scream. It is of sorts, but let’s unpack it in its entirety. Early in the morning I specifically asked her what she needed done. She gets angry at this sometimes partly because she doesn’t know but also because she thinks she’s got it under control. She rattled off a list of things and how she would tackle it. As a good captain, I offered any tools she may need, and she declined as she had it under control. I repeat, I specifically asked, “What do you need of me?” and she replied, “I think I got it.”

Cue to the front yard again and here she is proclaiming she was doing this for us. And in her lizard brain she was. Never mind that I didn’t ask her too, on top of the fact I had already offered help. Her reaction was you never when I….

Now this could have been dismissed as a simple shit test, but what it really was, was bad behavior disguised as a shit test. Bad behavior needs to be dealt with appropriately so that good boundaries are maintained. In this case she needs to learn to ask for help in a timely manner and not demand results when things are going wonky.

So I asked her, “Are you asking me or telling me? Because I would never tell you what to do.”

The hamster wheel starts to spin. “Of course I was asking. Do we have to do this now? I’m really busy here”

“Because if you were asking, then I have the right to say yes or no?”

“Really are we doing this now?”

“I’m just asking, do I?

“Yes you do.” The hamster wheel was now approaching full speed.

“I clearly offered help this morning. You declined. Now I’m in the middle of a project and I’d rather not drop everything. So don’t try to make me feel bad for your poor planning.”

Here’s where she broke down. She saw the error of her way and came close to sobbing. “I forgot about some things... I'm running out of time... I’m sorry, yes you can say no. I didn’t realize you were in the middle of something. I need the coffee pot so I can get it ready before everyone shows up [it takes a while to brew]”

[EDIT FOR CLARITY: I did not get the coffee pot. I finished the work I was doing and at some point I think she went over to said friends house and got it, as it's only a block away.]

 

Making It Whole Again

 

The flaw in this pot was the right to say no. It was broken and she was being a bitchy harpy thinking she could go around barking out orders because she fucked up and couldn’t plan. So it needed to be highlighted in a way that she could relate to. Was she asking or demanding? When put on the spot, her own words were “asking”. So I highlighted it by putting it in a context she would relate to, namely I give her choice why was I not allowed the same? I took an ugly broken shard and highlighted it for her to see. This comes up again and again, particularly with the journeymen redpill guys. . They’re just starting to bust through the easy shit tests, they have their technique down pat, and of course she ups the game. Think of it like shit testing for the masters’ class. She knows you’re strong in the moment, but do you have strong frame for those blurry boundaries that go beyond a simple compliance test?

My wife in this moment had clearly passed some boundaries I was not happy with. Namely, don’t treat me like shit because you are being ineffective. I could have been a prick and told her to go pound salt, I could have upped the beta and gave into what potentially was a lightly disguised comfort test, “You never help me when I need it.” But I didn’t, instead I chose to focus on the big picture, in this instance being pleasant and asking for real help when you’re in over your head.

The big difference in LTR game is we need to manage the relationship so that it stays mutually beneficial. You can spin a plate, and let it fall if things become untenable. She may demand more time than you are willing to give, she may demand commitment, etc. so now the value proposition has become unbalanced, so you let her drop. It’s a simple solution.

While we maintain that there’s always a walkaway point in an LTR, you do have a real investment. Not just sunk cost, but future earnings to think about. In an LTR, that might be your wife being mom to your kids, being a supportive first officer or even being a trusted partner in crime (not partner, maybe trusted sidekick?). At the very least she is a complement to your life. I want people in my life I can trust so I have to nurture and invest in that relationship. Investing in that relationship comes in the form of clear boundaries and a framework for understanding.

So here my wife broke a few boundaries and instead of defending why I was right and she was wrong, I played upon her emotions. I asked her how she would feel if I did the same thing to her. I played to her emotions on the situation, not the facts.

At its heart, this is why DEER (alternatively JADE) fails. It fails in its method, expecting people to see facts, and it fails in its delivery, ignoring the emotion. Your wife is an emotional being, so are you for that matter. You need to use those emotions to your advantage, not try to bludgeon them away or dismiss them.

My wife broke down, she apologized and came and cried in the crook of my neck. “I’m sorry, I just want this to be nice. We don’t spend a lot so I want this to be a nice experience for them.”

In the end I think a lot of guys fail because they don’t make the leap from being a technician to a master. Sure they can blow a shit test out of the water, or manage a comfort test to a happy conclusion. To be a master is to manage those situations so that boundaries are clearly established and future behavior is managed. Whether we like it or not, our lives are intertwined with our women. The technician level thing to do is let plates drop; turn this dial, punch that button, oops not working, mission cancelled. The master level is to manage these situations so that they are easily dealt with, prior to them happening. We want to punch the buttons and turn the dials so the machine is humming and running on a high level, not just feed-back but feed-forward control.

The next time you are in the heat of an argument, take this as a learning moment. Don’t run from what is broken but instead highlight it and use it to your advantage. Let people’s emotions move them to convince themselves of your argument. You can always get compliance, but don’t you really want engagement?

 

Epilogue

 

We've had several parties since that moment. Things still get out of hand, but two things are noticeably better. She comes to me before hand and asks for her captains input. Things like, *I need to this, this and this...", "Do you think, x, y, z" before she ever starts to execute. She'll also come to me, with humility and ask, "Yeah I fucked up and forgot...". It helps with the things we can affect, and makes the things we can't easier. The machine is running smoother and everyone is happier for it.


[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I coined this not long ago distinguishing a Shit Test from "Bitch Test" (which is actually different than a "Shitty Shit Test" and way different than a "Comfort Test"). You can break them down in real time:

Go down to [Friends house], and pick up the big coffee pot.”

Classic Shit Test- more specifically, a compliance test. Solution- don't take her seriously. He denies her request.

“Don’t you see I’m running around like crazy here? You never help me when I need it.

Bitch Test. You are bad. I am good. Do what I demand. Bitch test "needs to be dealt with appropriately so that good boundaries are maintained."

“Of course I was asking. Do we have to do this now? I’m really busy here”

Back to Shit Testing with a hint of Comfort Test.

came close to sobbing. “I forgot about some things... I'm running out of time... I’m sorry

If you guessed that THIS is a "Shitty Comfort Test" then go to the head of the class. Proper response, it's a shit test, not a comfort test. She is trying to manipulate you.

My wife broke down, she apologized and came and cried in the crook of my neck. “I’m sorry, I just want this to be nice.

I would have caved with that but McGill is right- this was NOT a Comfort Test but a Shitty Comfort Test and just more manipulation.

shit testing for the masters’ class.

You should try lawyer level Shitty Bitch Testing.

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post.

To be a master is to manage those situations so that boundaries are clearly established and future behavior is managed.

not just feed-back but feed-forward control

This is the crux of it. I don't want to stay in a reactionary stance, nor just anticipate and handle the same pattern better... but actually train/teach (implicit/explicit) her so the pattern itself changes.

[–]Mecha752 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting post. Lots of good material to learn from. Hopefully I can digest it and fully internalize it. My response right now to my wife coming outside ordering me around is to tell her to go pound sand. Which most definitely will lead to additional problems (read more bitchiness from her)

[–]screechhaterMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are a nubee reread the post ten times.

If you have been around for quite a while read the post 10 times.

Boundary setting and boundary maintanence is crucial to your sexual strategy- MRP. Red pill on hard mode

Hard mode because you need to be cognicant 24/7.

Habits are formed fast in the LTR that become so engrained with "just do shit to get her to shut the fuck up."

It's a downward spiral, and it truly is easy to get sucked into worse due to your ego.

Step back and plan. Plan and communicate as to set agendas. Keeping the agenda and enforcing it is like a well planned vacation with kids. They are exhausted by bed time, enough so the fall to sleep quick, but not cranky enough to ruin moods.

Boundary regulation done well, as cited above, is attractive. Period.

I once stopped our vehicle on a adult weekend trip before we left our town and gave her the option to chill with an insane bitchy attack on me and asked her politely if we should go or stay.

[–]VickVaseline1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am reminded of a quote I once heard:

"If I am not free to say no to you without guilt, then our relationship is based on obligation and fear."

I don't know whether that is at all applicable here.

[–]enhoel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Top notch report, and definitely helpful for those of us playing on hard mode. Thanks.

[–]r3mememember0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm stealing this:

Are you asking me or telling me? Because I would never tell you what to do

[–]MyManisMiner0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You fail at providing constructive criticism. You are venting how horrible your SO is - but would you take behavior like this from her? Or would you scream disrespect? Something to ponder....

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm afraid you need to develop your thoughts more on this. What are you asking?

My history shows, I'm never one to scream disrespect. At that point the battle is lost.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Im going to challenge this a bit

Your wife knows she is behaving badly by asking and expecting you to be Mr Stepanffetchit. For some reason she still thinks this will succeed and a verbal lesson isnt how you teach her. Women dont learn from lectures and the men they admire dont give em.

Not saying you handled poorly but did you run out and do her bidding and hamster it with a she had a lesson-learned fable?

I think the fact that a woman cries is mostly an extension of her manipulation. Its less bitchy and more submissive, but I wouldn't celebrate her personal growth because she shed a few crocodile tears before you ran her errands. She cried because she didnt get her way and thought this may light a fire under your ass.

I am sure the bitch mgmt guide never has women asking "Are we doing this now?"

Think about it. Thats amused mastery coming from a boss

If you say that was an inflection point and things are better than I believe you. Still, its not an ideal way to earn a woman's respect

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not saying you handled poorly but did you run out and do her bidding and hamster it with a she had a lesson-learned fable?

Nope. Never got it, I omitted that part.

I think the fact that a woman cries is mostly an extension of her manipulation. Its less bitchy and more submissive, but I wouldn't celebrate her personal growth because she shed a few crocodile tears before you ran her errands. She cried because she didn't get her way and thought this may light a fire under your ass.

I have no doubt as a womans primary communication method is of course, covert. Crying is an extension of that method. I will say, my assessment would be more one of frustration.

I am sure the bitch mgmt guide never has women asking "Are we doing this now?" Think about it. Thats amused mastery coming from a boss

This is actually pretty spot on. My wife has a tendency to go into command mode in high stress situations. What are shit tests if not a challenge to frame. Here she was being shit tested by me, because in the moment she knew her authority was being questioned. My assessment at this point? Use the surrender tactic.

“I’m just asking, do I?

“Yes you do.” The hamster wheel was now approaching full speed.

I'm not saying I couldn't have just nuked this shit from the beginning. Redpill is amoral still holds. I could have told her to go fuck herself and come back when she can be pleasant, and I have in the past; you should be unpredictable. As I have said, this was about managing future expectations. I also know everyone has a hamster, so take it the way you need too.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think not getting the coffee pot was the most important part of the lesson.

good story

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your right. I'll add. I tend to be verbose, so sometimes I cut things, here it was important.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, I disagree on it being a bad thing.

Consider your lens is purely a status one. Someone here is the top dog, the other one the submissive. Even if she acts submissive, she does what she has to to to encourage UEM to do what she wants, so it's just theatre. I say it's a little too simplistic. Consider the 'for me or against me' aspect.

At the start, she was pushing for high status "do my bidding" and "we are on the same team, team me" then, when he pushed back, it switched into "you're against me" which drives a shitty-partnership into a shitty-adversarial situation. Arguably, the worst thing he can do is aquiese, may as well give his balls to her while he is at it.

UEM pushes back on the team front, establishes a narrative to put her back on "team guy who has his shit together", and establishes his status. If this is a first case, it's not about the pot, but establishing who is the higher status, and if they are working from the same page, in that view, it was a win on both fronts.

Now, it's not a one off, and if it's merely a script she can use to get him to fetch stuff anyways, it's straight back to her at the top, and them on the same team, and the rest is simply theatre... in that case, getting the coffee pot becomes more important. And I also agree, this will not get her respect, but I don't think that's the aim. I get the impression it's walking soft, with a big stick. When she tests boundaries again is the time to start throwing heat. Plenty of better opportunities to get her wet.

I assume that she is largely not a cunt, and this doesn't need to be turned up to 11. If she were a down right ball busting bitch, I 100% would take the old CAD approach, and nuke it until the sand becomes glass.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

as long as he didnt get the damn coffee pot then it works fine

otherwise he did her bidding and fed the drama monster

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

In your eyes is there a way a guy could've "gotten the pot" and still have been in control? I knew the party would be fine without it, after all it's just coffee, so nothing at stake there.

But I had a friend who's wife ordered a ridiculously expensive cake. It was one of those cake boss kind of things, and he went to pick it up only to find out it was $300 bucks. He caved in the moment and paid the lady, rightly so, for service rendered. In the end however his wife trashed a big boundary; she has a spending habit that's out of control and routinely ignores his boundaries.

I know it's different in a lot of ways, but it's still about the pot so to speak.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I really dont think anything said or done AND honoring the silly request would prevent her from asking again.

In fact, women like the associated drama so its encouraging her to seek a ln emotional charge

Id have walked out of the cake shop.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You really should tell that restaurant story some time. Fuck if it doesn't redefine 'not putting up with her bullshit'

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Those 2 things are completely different in every way. The 300$ cake is an absolutely unacceptable amount of money to spend on a cake. Where he failed was not in paying for the cake. Where he failed was allowing his wife, whom you said has poor spending habits, even make the purchase. People like that need to be on allowances.

In your eyes is there a way a guy could've "gotten the pot" and still have been in control?

I'm going to have to agree with patient no.1 here. I don't think there is a way to get it while maintaining control. Although, it may be necessary to get it in extreme cases. In which case, you need to have the absolute most frame possible while doing it. IMO anyway.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Challenging the wife on her spending has become financial abuse in the hiveminds of today

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My wife is silid with $, so I can't relate to people who deal with this shit. All I know is I wouldn't

[–]nuffsaid666 points points [recovered] | Copy Link

And do you really have to keep analyzing your interactions all the time? How you performed in every freakin shit test too? Id kill myself (or my wife, lol) if i have to do this every damn day. Do the kids make it worth it?

[–]Mecha751 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or perhaps he is doing it to show RP newbs how it is done. Giving us a breakdown so that we can better internalize it and put it to practice in our own marriages.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate pussies who delete their shit after getting slammed. Stand by your words or don't write them.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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