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I don't normally dismantle hamster wheels to showcase the inner-workings of the female mind in fine detail, but a recent front-page post on Imgur set off several red flags, and I risked opening the cage and getting dung on my hands to offer a perspective contrary to what the masses have accepted at face value, which means I think I'm better than them.

In this essay we encounter a woman who has a long-distance relationship with a guy-friend who makes good money, and says that it's "love". But the evidence suggests it's more a relationship of convenience with little to no romance. We then conclude with how to test if your wife is interested in you romantically or not. This essay is closely related to Signs she might be a former carousel rider looking for a provider.

I also don't normally do these types of essays primarily because we don't have the man's side of the story to verify her claims and thus provide an accurate picture of the relationship, which ultimately makes the writing speculative and judgmental, but I do believe the evidence so far leans in favor of a relationship of convenience rather than claims of "love", and I'm open to any feedback that my interpretations are off. Alright let's dig in.

 

Case study

 

(Image) Girl meets boy - In junior high. We lived in neighboring towns and spent our teen years hanging out in the same rag-tag group of friends.

Extreme hoverhand indicates just friends.

 

(Image) We go to different colleges and don't see each for years...7 years... I was in my last semester of grad school before I saw him again.

Pretty girl does off to cock-llege. How many turns does the average carousel make in 7 years?

 

(Image) He was hilarious, charming, exciting... I was single. I thought I'd date him for the time before I moved on with my life post grad school.

Her wording here shows lack of attraction. Translation: "He wasn't really hilarious, charming or exciting because I was focused more on my life post grad school than wanting to be with him. But I didn't have any preferred cock at the moment, so I figured I'd 'date' him to pass the time."

 

(Image) Instantly it was love. I never had a chance. I never wanted long distance, but for some reason I would make it work for him.

Hmmm, why would a woman who shows no apparent attraction for a man entertain a long-distance relationship with him? We'll revisit her statement later, but as you look at the following photos, note the cities and states in bold, and notice how her head is always upright in the photos. This will be explained later:

 

(Image) We spent the sparse time we had together wisely, doing the things we loved. Dirt jump biking in the Mega Cavern - Louisville, Kentucky

Note the "friendship hug" - him holding her shoulder instead of her lower back the way lovers do - though they're supposedly dating.

 

(Image) Camping under the stars with nothing but sleeping bags in the desert - California

(Image) Cowboy SASS matches - Brazil, Indiana

(Image) Hiking in canyons - Fall Canyon, California

Another friendship hug.

Annnnnnd she has short hair.

Annnnnnd it's dyed.

Annnnnnd it's blue.

 

(Image) Wandering the desert just ahead of a sand storm - Death Valley, California

(Image) Canoeing through gator infested black swamps - Okefenokee Swamp, Georgia

(Image) White water rafting the olympic course- Ducktown, Tennessee

(Image) Murdering skanks in matching outfits - Florida

Another friendship hug, and she's not even fully holding him.

 

Now back to her earlier comment:

Instantly it was love. I never had a chance. I never wanted long distance, but for some reason I would make it work for him.

Translation: "While it was love for him, it was personal gratification for me. I'm not attracted to him, but he wooed me with trips around the country, and with the stress of being in grad school with no real income, I needed a vacation."

 

(Image) We spent our time apart on the phone/texting/emailing/snapchatting. We always used snapchat to the best of it's abilities.

Translation: "When I wasn't getting my sexual needs met elsewhere, I was busy cleaning my inbox of all the spam."

 

(Image) Many gifts were made and given.

Translation: "He showered me with so many things, and all I had to do was show up." A woman will only use the words "love" to describe what's really a relationship of convenience when she's deriving a benefit and doesn't want to appear shallow, so either he designed that frame, or she did it to give him the impression that it's "love".

 

After years of searching, applying, and interviewing, I landed a job in the same town. I did what I said I never would and gave up a career, packed up, and moved home with my Mom. I had an hour long commute but it was worth it to see him more often.

Translation: "Finding employment with a degree in gender studies is tough so I moved back home with mom. He was secondary in making this decision."

 

(Image) A wonderful card for our next adventure together.

Subtext: "I don't want to sound mean by saying how needy he comes across because I'm benefiting from it."

 

(Image) Obviously I circled yes.

Interesting how the 'Yes' is circled, but also includes multiple heart-shapes. A few interpretations could be made here, but from my perspective none of them suggests her "love" for him (I can offer that perspective in the comments if anyone wishes to know as it's somewhat trivial).

 

Due to beta behaviors such as the friendship hug, trips around the country, and "Move in with me? Please?", a feminist is dating a Beta Bux for his resources and passing it off as "love".

To my bias, this guy had a case of the oneitis by a woman who friendzoned him, and decided to use his money to win her over. A strategy that can lead to sex yes, but it's not a gina-tingler, especially while still exhibiting beta "friendship" behavior (and all this without considering the possibility that it was she who looked him up to be her beta provider as she was nearing the Wall). So while on the surface it appears he "got the girl", it's not likely to remain a fulfilling long-term relationship that he wants because the evidence suggests she's not interested in him romantically. Which leads us to understanding why her head is upright in the photos:

A woman who is genuinely in love with a man will lean into him intimately, like this, this, this, and this. The woman in our case study shows no such affection in her photos, indicating lack of romantic interest despite her words. So any sex they have is due to her sense of moral obligation for the resources he provides, and not necessarily her desire for him. So, boring duty sex.

And while the argument could be rightfully made that LDRs rarely lead to long-term romance, in this particular case I would say the LDR is of little effect because he was attempting to buy his way into romance with her. Once a man sells his money and resources to a woman instead of his character, she will value him based on what he has (provider) rather than who he is (potential lover). And women are sexually aroused and committed to men who give them deep physical and emotional connections, not men who throw money at them.

And this is why it's important to test a woman's attraction to you by withdrawing interest in her. Show some initial interest, then withdraw to see if she chases you romantically. Because if you keep showering her with attention and gifts without testing to see if she reciprocates with affection, then it's not certain if she's with you out of love or convenience.

So the primary means of boosting a woman's love for you is through attractive looks and Alpha behavior, not your money, gifts or servitude. Love inspires commitment, loyalty and passionate sex. Convenience causes dead bedrooms and branch swinging.

 

For married men, a surefire way to test your wife's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex. Keep an upbeat, positive attitude, but don't express any sexual interest in her, especially when she's ovulating and most horny. Wait for her to come unto you, even if it's been a few weeks. If she's attracted to you romantically, she will come unto you for sex, which means kissing you, touching you and pulling you into the bedroom, and she may even signal her desire for you through wearing lingerie, makeup and perfume, all of which are good indicators that she's not cheating on you and is committed to the marriage. But if she only does non-sexual things like cook dinner, give gifts, or wanting to Netflix but not chill, then she's likely with you for resources and not romance.

 

Epilogue:

To be candid, I'm actually happy for the man in this story. It plays out like a good Nice Guy fantasy, with him being able to LTR his oneitis. Unfortunately, his friendship behavior and inclination to use money and things to attract her will likely make the relationship short-lived.


[–]bsutansaltTRP MODERATOR[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting how the 'Yes' is circled, but also includes multiple heart-shapes. A few interpretations could be made here, but from my perspective none of them suggests her "love" for him (I can offer that perspective in the comments if anyone wishes to know as it's somewhat trivial).

This is a pretty clear example of Briffault's Law in action. As /u/HumanSockPuppet stated in another thread:

The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

The corollary to Briffault's Law is that a woman will continue to associate herself with you if she believes that you provide her with some survival advantage that is too important to risk losing. This is the ONLY way to guarantee faithfulness in a relationship.

I believe this is what we've seen here with her moving in and sticking with him as long as she has. She may not get wet at the thought of him, but for now she's his because he's all she's got. The moment a bigger better deal comes along she's going to be gone or cheat with a quickness.

I see this ALL the time with these hardcore liberal women who can't make their own money becuse they got worthless degrees. They latch on to some beta bucks chump and then cheat or convince the guys to have these wacky poly/open relationships the guys almost never benefit from. It's insane!

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

An interesting post but can you relate it better to Married Red Pill?

I think many MANY men who have lost attraction with their wives might try this testing paradigm and learn (surprise!) that she is not interested in you in "that" way.

The idea behind MRP is to apply Red Pill principles to improve yourself and increase your attraction to women. The obvious byproduct is changing the perception of the wife from "convenience" (i.e. seeing you as Beta Bucks) into "love" (i.e. seeing you as Alpha Fucks).

[–]kevin32[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Updated the Conclusion with a segment for married men.

I personally think content like the OP is relatable to both married men and those in LTRs. However, I'll be sure to tailor future posts with the significance in marriage.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

2 methods: escalate, withdraw

  • if you escalate and she escalates with you, she's probably interested. if she escalates with you and you're not even providing anything (dinner, drinks, etc), then she's very interested.
  • most men will escalate more than most women in any sort of relationship. outside of some sex slave situation, if she never escalates, she's not interested. if she never grabs your cock or grabs your ass or gives you a bj or tells you to fuck her all on her own volition, she's not interested (or she's really shitty in bed). if she refuses when you tell her to do any of that, she's not interested. if you ask her to do that, you're a cuck and need to chop off the dangling flap of skin where your balls should be, grow a pair, and then go read the sidebar.
  • if you ever bother to take her to a drink or dinner or whatever, wait 48 hours before contacting her. if she doesn't call/text you back first, she's not interested. a proper lady will call/text you to say thank you for dinner and she had a nice night.
  • if she never calls/texts you first to see whats up or how you're doing or even just to say hi, she's not interested. the way to test this is called baking. for every 3 texts she sends, you only send 2, and every time she sends, always bake (arbitrarily go silent and withdraw) for 15 min to 48 hours. then you can text her back. if she doesn't comply with the 3/2 ratio or doesn't text you back after baking, she's not interested.
  • if you're making plans and she cancels, it's her job to counter with an alternate time/place/activity. if she does not, she's not interested.

it's not your job to be her dancing monkey, ATM, pokemon collection, saturday night live comedian, or any of this one-sided bullshit.

related side note: never give her compliments or gifts, even in an LTR, unless it's immediately or shortly after sex. that's the fast track to becoming her beta.

[–]bsutansaltTRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good post. I'm stealing that for the future.

if you escalate and she escalates with you, she's probably interested. if she escalates with you and you're not even providing anything (dinner, drinks, etc), then she's very interested.

That's a legit barometer and is especially useful for single and married guys alike as it applies to physical escalation.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED11 points12 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

The post had merit at first. I liked the analysis and the visual of the couple.

But I think the dude is in for a rough life.

For married men, a surefire way to test your wife's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex. Keep an upbeat, positive attitude, but don't express any sexual interest in her

This doesn't pass go. Why hamster if she loves you or not? not sure I understand the point of that. In fact it flies in the face of the MPR process.

If you want sex initiate. Her choice to fuck you or not. If you sit around pulling pedals off a flower (does she love me, does she love me not) you're doing nothing more then feeding your ego and looking for her validation. The test, as it were, is that you get to a point where your LTR/wife ins't meeting your needs you find someone who will and does. Then you can decide what to do then. The standard is the standard. Fail to meet it and we are done.

she wants to be taken like a wolf takes his prey. Don't hamster some lame attempt at testing and vetting you LTR/Wife. The vetting should have already happened but as we know guys are usually shit at this.

she wants you to take her. All the decisions she has to make the last thing she wants to think about is some needy little boy and his pee pee. Be a man. Grab her roughly and fuck her hard. I'd then argue that starfish sex is the test. But then....if you aren't put off by starfish go for it.

Constantly testing, vetting, and wondering about the woman in your life is a warped form of oneitis IMO. If you fear a chad that much that you have to test your woman occasionally then you have other issues.

Be man enough to state your needs and see them met. Don't wonder your way through it. Hope is not a method.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Burden of performance. It's always how I can spot blue from red advice.

Soon as it involves waiting for her to make the first move, I already know it's a loss

[–]kevin32[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Soon as it involves waiting for her to make the first move, I already know it's a loss

As if the couple met just yesterday and will be having sex for the first time.

Sex has already been happening for some time. The question is, is she doing it out of desire for you, or obligation for resources?

You're mature enough to know your wife's commitment and desire for you in ways both in and outside the bedroom. Not everyone has that same level of intuition.

It's just a way. Not mandatory.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Girls that want sex wont initiate.

Want confidence? Get another girl and escalate. They are all generally the same

[–]kevin32[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Girls that want sex wont initiate.

I'm abit surprised you would say this, as it suggests that no man has ever experienced his woman kissing and groping him for sex when he wasn't expecting it. But like I said in another post, when you're on the Alpha-fucks side of the fence, women will come unto you for sex, even when you're not in the mood.

If girls that want sex won't initiate, that means cheating only happens when men want sex, only men chase women in online dating, and that even Chad has to initiate sex. Can we reasonably expect that every woman he's met was a prude who just twiddled her fingers waiting for him to say "Let's go to bed?"

So depending on the man's attractiveness women do initiate sex. However to your credit, I will say that in LTRs they usually initiate sex indirectly through wearing lingerie, makeup and perfume, with the intention for you to approach.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it happens, but no, it wont solve your problems.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know when it makes my dick itch.

[–]Coniferous_881 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Grab her roughly and fuck her hard. I'd then argue that starfish sex is the test. But then....if you aren't put off by starfish go for it."

Interesting point- once you've done the caveman enough and improved yourself enough, the starfish 'should' taper off...I guess the big question every guy has to deal with is how long will I tolerate the starfish while I improve???

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Big question...how long

This actually was a big question on the sub about a week ago. The answer is to make sure tolerating doesn't mean waiting for her to catch up. Instead, you should always be improving and if you get to the point where you find a woman who doesn't give starfish before she catches up, well, her loss.

[–]Coniferous_880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Indeed...the possible result of playing 'catch and release' perhaps?

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is exactly the question. Yet some DGAF

And I'd argue using the term cavemen does it disservice. There's a difference between being aggressive and being dominant.

[–]kevin32[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Why hamster if she loves you or not? not sure I understand the point of that...Constantly testing, vetting, and wondering about the woman in your life is a warped form of oneitis IMO.

This presupposes that every man here:

A. is already red-pilled about the nature of women, including their sexual nature.

B. has already vetted that his wife married him for romance and not just resources.

C. exhibits Alpha behavior in the relationship.

Just because one man might be Mr.-Alpha-Male-Dominant-don't-take-no-shit-from-a-bitch-i-get-laid-whenever-i-want-and-bitches-love-me-cuz-my-game-is-tight, doesn't mean other men here have that same perspective and experience.

We're all on different levels of the red pill journey, so my posts are generally written in a way that men at all levels could benefit. The test of withdrawing sexual interest is meant for those men who started their red pill journey after marriage, and are now asking in hindsight, "Knowing what I know now, did I make a good decision with this woman? Does she really want me for me? Could my behaviors be an issue in our marital problems?"

A wife with genuine sexual interest in you is loyal and committed to the marriage. A woman who gives duty-sex for resources is much more inclined to cheat and branch-swing.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If that's the case, theres a tried and true method that guys always use.

Girls make excuses for alphas, and rules for betas.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Knowing what I know now, did I make a good decision with this woman? Does she really want me for me?"

ASking this question shows how much you don't know.

So here's the simple truth. Women don't love men the way men expect to be loved.

Get over her. Stop wondering. Make shit happen.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Its pretty clear we're all on different levels, you're still at the part where you should STFU and not try to justify your needy bullshit.

[–]kevin32[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

STFU and not try to justify your needy bullshit.


a surefire way to test your wife's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex.

Yep, that screams neediness.

[–]2gunsgetsomeMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

a surefire way to test your wife's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex.

Yep, that screams neediness.

Not that part.

This part:

a surefire way to test your wife's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex

[–]kevin32[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Can you point out the part where I said it needed to be done all the time for the life of the marriage?

[–]2gunsgetsomeMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can you point out the part where I said it needed to be done all the time for the life of the marriage?

No, because you never typed those words. Are you suggesting we do this "test" once and accept the results for eternity? Because women never change their minds or opinions?

If your wife (or the woman you're fucking) isn't already reflecting your sexual interest (because it's your job to initiate), removing your interest won't make her magically pick up the slack. You're not taking away something she values.

I know I have personally tried your "test" when I was married, before and after unplugging, and so have countless others on here. It only proves what we already knew and why we came here! Why the fuck do you think all of us found MRP?

Here's a test:

  • Are you getting non-starfish sexuality? She's interested in you sexually. Right then.

That's all you need to know.

[–]kevin32[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Alphas who are experienced with women don't have to do this test because they can "read" their wives in other ways to determine her commitment.

It's mainly for men who are newly red-pilled and may have doubts about themselves or their wives' commitment. It doesn't replace the essentials of Alpha behavior and game, and I never said it was mandatory, just "Want to know if your wife desires you? Here's a way."

I personally don't agree with the non-starfish sex approach because it's still not known if she's doing it out of desire for you or obligation for resources. Does your approach elicit "He came unto me, that turns me on!", or "He came unto me, I shouldn't say No." The man inexperienced with women may not even know if she's faking.

removing your interest won't make her magically pick up the slack. You're not taking away something she values.

When you're on the Alpha-fucks side of the fence, you notice that women will come unto you for sex, even when you're not in the mood. That selfishness doesn't change in marriage, so when you withdraw your sexual interest in her, her biological need for sex eventually kicks in.

The test is does she want it from you. The answer to that question helps determine whether she's committed to the marriage and confirms your desirability, or if your relationship/behavior needs work.

Again not mandatory, just a way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In trying to find the way, you are investing too much into her. Tests are a covert contract in and of themselves. You are expecting something and drawing a conclusion from the result without telling her of either. I imagine a man setting up a scenario and then sitting back and brooding, thinking to himself, "Heh heh heh, let's see what she does with this one. That'll tell me if she really loves me".

The main post was interesting, makes you think. But it also pushes for the tendency to OVERTHINK. As you said, "Alphas who are experienced with women don't have to do this test because they can "read" their wives in other ways to determine her commitment." We should all strive to do this rather than trust tests to tell us.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SteelToeShitKicker3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to assume that love means attraction because I'm not sure that we (myself included) believe in love here on MRP.

How did I know?

A chick I was fucking told me that in her past she let some dude she just met raw dog her on a public bathroom floor. Don't ask how this came up in conversation, I don't remember. Now, she doesn't even like giving blowjobs anymore and that I'm special and she wouldn't do anything "dirty" with me.

I couldn't stick around after that even though she was only a warm hole to fuck. In sum, if there's some shit that they have done with others, and won't do with you, she isn't attracted.

[–]blarggggggggggg3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only true love a woman has is for her children.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes less is more.

Stick to faux white-knighting post cc OkCupid pump and dumps.

[–]weakandsensitive7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

a surefire way to test a woman's desire for you is to not come unto her for sex hamster your own bullshit.

ftfy.

oh, and for anyone who doubts that this post is complete crap, check out OP's post history to see how much of a faggot he is.

[–]kevin32[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, check out his personal sub where he provides commentary on various Red Pill topics. It's quite the height of lunacy.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What the fuck is this passive aggressive bullshit? Christ, this sub usually preaches being a leader not sitting around with a hard on refraining from sex, contemplating if a woman you married loves you or not.

STFU, stop worrying about IF your SPOUSE loves you, and get back to reading and lifting. You're pretty juvenile mate.

[–]Elevate50 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Forget your lame "test". Go work on yourself. Become more attractive.

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't read your post...at all...but to answer the title:

If she is breathing

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don't like 'you' anyways. they like the feelings attached to you. Fear of loss, feelings of pre selection, and safety tend to keep a bitch in line... granted feelings are fickle, and right place, time, and Chad can set that all to crumble.

So I add some DGAF for seasoning. It's just your turn.

End of the day, she will never love you the way you want her to, accept it, and stop worrying about whats in her head, just focus on the outputs IMO

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How to tell if a woman is dating you for convenience rather than love

If you're getting what you want out of the relationship does it really matter?

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Duhhhhhh. my feelz are important yo.

[–]470_2_700_nm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A sure fire way to fuck up your LTR is to withdraw sexually. Your job as a man is to initiate like a mother fucker and not give a shit if she does not respond, because if she does it enough you will simply fuck another woman. This needs to be subcomminicated in a covert way.

She will either fuck you - and it's up to you to be dominant and to make it fun. You are leading this ship!

The end of this post is terrible advice.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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