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Starting reading The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. Here's an exerpt.

To me it exemplifies the RP on hard mode idea. It's something to strive for, but I believe you can still find happiness and contentment being independent without reaching leader status. Bear with the formatting, posting from mobile again.

"...On the maturity continuum, dependence is the paradigm of you—you take care of me; you come through for me; you didn’t come through; I blame you for the results. Independence is the paradigm of I—I can do it; I am responsible; I am self-reliant; I can choose. Interdependence is the paradigm of we—we can do it; we can cooperate; we can combine our talents and abilities and create something greater together..."

Emotional Dependence

"...If I were emotionally dependent, my sense of worth and security would come from your opinion of me. If you didn’t like me, it could be devastating..."

Emotional Independence

"...I would be validated from within. I would be inner directed. My sense of worth would not be a function of being liked or treated well. It’s easy to see that independence is much more mature than dependence. Independence is a major achievement in and of itself. But independence is not supreme. Nevertheless, the current social paradigm enthrones independence. It is the avowed goal of many individuals and social movements. Most of the self-improvement material puts independence on a pedestal, as though communication, teamwork, and cooperation were lesser values. But much of our current emphasis on independence is a reaction to dependence—to having others control us, define us, use us, and manipulate us. The little-understood concept of interdependence appears to many to smack of dependence, and therefore, we find people, often for selfish reasons, leaving their marriages, abandoning their children, and forsaking all kinds of social responsibility—all in the name of independence.

The kind of reaction that results in people “throwing off their shackles,” becoming “liberated,” “asserting themselves,” and “doing their own thing” often reveals more fundamental dependencies that cannot be run away from because they are internal rather than external—dependencies such as letting the weaknesses of other people ruin our emotional lives or feeling victimized by people and events out of our control. Of course, we may need to change our circumstances. But the dependence problem is a personal maturity issue that has little to do with circumstances. Even with better circumstances, immaturity and dependence often persist. True independence of character empowers us to act rather than be acted upon.

It frees us from our dependence on circumstances and other people and is a worthy, liberating goal. But it is not the ultimate goal in effective living. Independent thinking alone is not suited to interdependent reality. Independent people who do not have the maturity to think and act interdependently may be good individual producers, but they won’t be good leaders or team players. They’re not coming from the paradigm of interdependence necessary to succeed in marriage, family, or organizational reality. Life is, by nature, highly interdependent..."

Emotional Interdependence

"...Interdependence is a far more mature, more advanced concept. If I am physically interdependent, I am self-reliant and capable, but I also realize that you and I working together can accomplish far more than, even at my best, I could accomplish alone. If I am emotionally interdependent, I derive a great sense of worth within myself, but I also recognize the need for love, for giving, and for receiving love from others. If I am intellectually interdependent, I realize that I need the best thinking of other people to join with my own. As an interdependent person, I have the opportunity to share myself deeply, meaningfully, with others, and I have access to the vast resources and potential of other human beings.

Interdependence is a choice only independent people can make. Dependent people cannot choose to become interdependent. They don’t have the character to do it; they don’t own enough of themselves..."

I think this a great breakdown of the MRP journey that the Family Alpha often talks about. About having fun with your woman and realizing you're on the same team. But you can't get there without breaking free of your BP dependence first.

It also should be said that independence will not guarantee interdependence. Like MRP says over and over, it might not work with your current wife.


[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"...If I were emotionally dependent, my sense of worth and security would come from your opinion of me. If you didn’t like me, it could be devastating..."

For those playing at home, a thought experiment:

Scenario 1: You do something awesome at home, only your wife sees it, is she impressed? How does she react? AWALT dictates that on average, she will either not acknowledge it, barely acknowledge it, or often times downplay it. Why? (answers at the end)

Scenario 2: You do that same awesome thing in public around other women, especially ones in her circle. How does she react? She will most likely praise it, possibly to an overblown extent, and probably toss you a BJ later that day. Why?

She uses her approval of you as a tool of control and manipulation. If you are awesome in a forest and nobody is around to see it, does it make a sound? She will want to keep you under control, with the blinders on to the fact that you are awesome, and you are in control of your destiny. So, why the change when in public? Well, even with her first goals of control still in effect, there is a higher drive to elevate her own status within her social circle as well as to indicate to the potential rivals that her/your relationship is strong and attempts to "steal" you away will fail, because your (and through association her) SMV is the highest, and that rival wouldn't have a chance.

Moral of the story, giving a single fuck about her opinion of your awesomeness is a waste of energy. It correlates to literally nothing. If you are a fat fuck loser, she will tell you all about it. If you work to become a chiseled model, she will still tell you all about how you are a loser (in subtle ways). The output of that system has no positive relation to the input, if anything, it could be inverse.

Do awesome things for you, be awesome for you. Let her know (indirectly) that you know how awesome you are by being happy, unfazed by life, and like an emotional boulder (she can't change your course if she wanted to).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Leadership is getting results in a way that inspires trust (from SC Jr)

[–]OverthinkerTRP[S,🍰] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Like father like son

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

My daughter asked me what leadership meant once, because I went to a leadership class. After a not so brief speech about people, schedules, trust, etc... she got bored, and said I didn't know.

This quote is the best leadership explanation I could find. Trust in this case means integrity and competence.

[–]Mecha752 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Sprinkle in some charisma and you may have it. You cannot effectively lead if you lack charisma.

[–]HerukaRising0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

How would you define charisma in this context?

[–]Mecha751 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Read The Charisma Myth

[–]InvincibleKraken1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This book's overrated. I prefer How to Have Confidence and Power in Dealing with People.

[–]HerukaRising0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read The Charisma Myth

I probably won't. I thought you had an idea.

[–]Chinny4daWinny1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I believe, charisma is making the other person feel warm and good around you.

In this sense, talking to your daughter in a way she can't understand made her see you as not knowing what leadership meant and she got bored.

If you would have talked to her in smaller words and in a time frame that her attention span can capture and maybe sprinkle some excitement in it, she'll be intrigued and feel smarter (the feeling good I was talking about earlier) and feel that happened because she was talking to her daddy, thus she'll come back and ask you more questions since the way you answer them for her make her feel smart because she can understand them.

[–]HerukaRising0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you might be right. To me, charisma sounds as something quite abstract. But your explanation is pretty hands-on, i.e. useful. I have sometimes heard charisma defined as being the same as presence, which would come pretty close to what you say.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"...If I were emotionally dependent, my sense of worth and security would come from your opinion of me. If you didn’t like me, it could be devastating..."

I haven't read that book so I don't know if it's discussed but one interesting corollary about emotional independence that is not talked about enough here is: mastery requires you must actually be comfortable with others not liking or disapproving of you.

Many times we see people resolve their own anxieties and discomforts and think they're done. This is a great accomplishment. But it's not the full thing. In the cases those are resolved as false fears -- it's only half the process. You didn't have to grow to deal with people you care about actually disliking you. Full emotional independence requires being comfortable with others disliking you.

[–]OverthinkerTRP[S,🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I catch myself checking this post hoping for upvotes. This is something I need to own

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk ... Sounds like a bunch of rules when anyone and person can change...

I'd say a leader would clearly know when to be independent or know better still when to act and think independently or know when to let the ones being lead work independently.

As a family leader that is the actual goal right? Nothing teaches better or exposes weakness then doing.

Some good points but all of that detail his abs lost the point.. unless you want control and dependence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This reminds me of a conversation I was having with a friend early after swallowing the pill. In it, we were talking about the fact that most people are looking out for #1 all the time, and that even when we cooperated we were still looking out for #1. I presented the case of our group of friends doing so-called altruistic things for each other...getting a call at 4am because they desperately need a ride for some reason and going out to get them...spending a weekend sacrificing your time to help a friend tear off and re-shingle his roof. This all seem like things we do "just because we're friends".

But then I asked him...what would you do if you kept coming over my house to help me, but every time you asked me to help I wouldn't. Obviously he said he'd stop helping. I asked why...and made the point that us doing these things for each other...being interdependant...is at it's core self serving. That we go help tear off a roof because one day we might need help...and thus we want to ensure help is there for us.

 

So for emotional interdependence...you derive great love from yourself...but recognize the need for love, for giving, and for receiving love from others. If you were given a lens of truth and knew NO ONE would EVER give you love no matter what you did...would you give love? No. You'd certainly derive love from yourself, but you wouldnt throw your love into a pit knowing it wouldn't benefit you? Why? You recognize love, and the need to give love BECAUSE you want love in return. This almost sounds covert contracty...but it isn't as long as you never expect the love in return...you simply move on with your life using abundance mentality if you don't receive the love in return. AM saves us from the haunting question when we transition from dependence to independence of: "what if I dont get X" by answering: "there's 3some billion women out there...someone will give you X". OI completes the transition out of dependence by saying: "But you should not count on others for your love...draw your love from you".

 

Closing: I think interdependancy is more advanced than independance because you have AM and OI and allow others to add to your life...but I don't believe it's on a whole nother level where there's this altruistic premise behind it. And the way I view my actions with other people now, which an outsider may view as some kind of interdependence...is actually a form of (strong word choice) manipulation by me in my eyes, because I understand the interaction, what I'm trying to get out of it for me.

[–]OverthinkerTRP[S,🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm.. I'm not sure on the exact dictionary definition of manipulation but if the intent is to give the person an option to love you rather than force them, is it really manipulation?

You're right interdependence is not altruistic at all, it's recognizing that people together can accomplish more than someone alone and utilizing that to assist getting your desires. A subtle but important distinction.

I don't like the authors use of the word NEED to receive love from others. As if to imply that not reaching the 3rd stage of his maturity continuum means not getting all needs met. I see it as more of an intense, subconscious human desire.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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