TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

64

Part One: Summary of PM’s over the last year.

Often someone will read an old post of mine The Cheating Game and, I get many private messages that go something like this:

I was reading your post from a year ago and would like the benefit of your experience. I became RP aware a few weeks, or months, ago and have read some, or all, of the side bar. I am about 35 to 45 years old and have 2 or more, kids. I have been beta all, most, or part of my life. I am long married to a difficult woman that has problems getting along with me and the kids. She has some intermittent issues with alcohol, or something else. She is an angry woman, a feminist, and she childishly refuses to accept any responsibility for her bad behavior. I am a very successful provider for the family and a good father.

I know you can’t make this decision for me. I am trying to decide if it is better to stay together for the sake of the kids and get sex outside of my marriage, or, just go ahead and make the split with my wife.

I am concerned that my children may not do well having me in their lives only half time.

I would really appreciate your advice........

AFC AverageFrustratedChump

Part Two: My response to the AFC’s PMs.

AFC, what you describe is far from an impossible situation.

Unbeknownst to you, you hold all the cards in your relationship. Just as you so easily admit you were beta, you also are the cause of all your problems, and only you can fix them. As you lift, apply dread, study the sidebar and apply it to your situation, OVER TIME you will improve.

As you get control of yourself and improve; you, your wife, and your children will benefit, over time. Very rarely, does leading your family fail. When it does fail to improve, there is no doubt about leaving and becoming a half time dad. Therefore, the answer to your question is to do the work on you, then your question will be answered by your wife’s behavior, in time.

You probably already are a half time dad. Between work, maybe travel and other obligations, few men really spend that much more time with their kids when they are married, compared to after they divorce. Get your day-planner/calendar down and really look at it. For most men this concern is overblown.

If you are still having sex with your wife, outside affairs will only dilute your time for gaming of your wife and your self improvement efforts.

The best reason for affairs is - the sex. The second best reason for an affair is to re-establish your view of abundance. If you are looking for more than sex or abundance, then you are a needy guy looking for validation, and, you will probably implode your marriage.

Recognize that getting caught will likely end your marriage, and, end your plan of staying for the kids. If ever you couldn’t keep a secret, you will probably not keep your affairs secret either. Based on your comments, your kids are a priority. How would you like you kids, and others, to know about your affairs?

There are some tactical issues. If you improve yourself/marriage, you have a shot at sex several times a week with a partner you can train to please you. You will not be spending hours gaming soccer moms, or on dating sites, or in bars gaming women that may, or may not pan out. Avoiding STD’s, not attracting crazies, and unprotected sex are other considerations. If you think you are dealing with rejection now, more women approached will mean more opportunities for rejection, and more opportunities to meet shitty women.

My advice to you:

  • If cheating is what you really want to do; do it, you are your own judge.

  • Avoiding cheating allows you more time and energy to work on the real cause of your problems - you.

  • Once you have gone through the entire self improvement process, and your wife doesn’t respond, then, rather than serial cheating, respect yourself and your children, and leave.

Best

Part Three: Post Mortem of “The Cheating Game”.

When I wrote that post over a year ago, I was trying to make sense of my first failed marriage, that ended over 25 years ago. That post set in motion months of introspection. This post is the result to date.

I am still unapologetic about that old post. I did what I thought was best at the time. However, months ago, I changed to another username, because I did not want my adult children, to stumble across it and know it was me. The very reason I stayed in that marriage, became my achilles heel. I realized, I did not want to be outed as a cheater to my kids, and significant others. Well, my kids know now, but they always mostly knew. Kids are a forgiving bunch; you love them, they love you back. During my introspective process, they offered me some insights.

Their mother had/has serious mental issues that she did not/will not address. My kids said they appreciated that I stayed. They appreciated my being there for them, but they question if a divorce could have been better, for them, their mother, and me. My kids did not enjoy living with the tension, and their distant, unhappy parents. Having two parents and lots of stuff was good, but having two happy parents even if they are divorced, would have been much better.

One reason I stayed in the marriage, was to spend more time with my kids than just being a joint custody parent. My kids pointed out that between working and working “late”, going out with my friends, going camping “alone”, and my involvement with school activities, I didn’t spend as much time with them as I thought. When it came to coaching their teams and working in their school organizations, although I was always involved, they often had to wait their turn for my attention. I was often preoccupied with the moms that needed my attention.

I spent so much time gaming and chasing women, that I probably got less sex than if I was gaming the wife. Logistically it is hard to line up several one night stands a week. Much less train them to consistently give me what I want. Edit: If it's all about sex anyway, you may as well fuck the crazy woman you know, hard and often, rather than look for new occasional crazy that might cause you even more problems.

Another reason I stayed, was to protect my children from their mother’s problems. However, the vast majority of the time, their mother cared for one or more of them, without my supervision, or the need of it. She loves those kids and they love her, faults and all. I was wrong.

So my rationalizations for staying were not very sound.

“Fallacies of Cheating for the Sake of the Children”

  • If you get caught, you will hurt the children you are staying for and trying to protect.

  • You will probably get less sex than if you improve yourself, game your wife, and lead your family.

  • You will increase your chances for getting an STD, and attracting crazies. Any unprotected sex is very risky.

  • You will have to approach a lot more women to get laid regular. Increases your exposure to rejection, and, problematic women.

  • Having two parents and lots of stuff is good, but having two happy parents, even if they are divorced, is much better for you, and your kids.

  • You will spend less time with your kids due to your cheating, than you would if you improved your marriage or divorced.

  • It is unlikely you will protect your children from your spouse by staying.

  • Spending the time you would use for cheating, for self improvement instead, is more likely to benefit you and your children long term.

Part Four: What (I Believe) I should have done:

I should have taken control of myself, of my emotions, and spent my time improving myself.

  • I was the cause of all my problems. By redirecting the time I spent getting the thrill of sexual pursuit and validation, to improving myself, I would have been a better man with a happier family. Even if the marriage eventually failed, I would have gained.

  • If I had done the work of improving myself back then, I believe there was a better than 50% chance of fixing that marriage.

  • If it could not have been fixed, I would have divorced and improved the lives of everyone, especially my children and me.

  • Even if the marriage had improved, I still doubt it would have survived the empty nest, but the intervening years could have been happier for everyone.

Not many subjects get the visceral reactions that male, and female, cheating get. Although I have my mutating views about cheating, you are your own judge. With that in mind, I look forward to your discussion.

Best

Edit: This is my thoughts about a primary focus on cheating instead of gaming your wife, or, serial cheating. This is not about the guys that do "catch and release" and every once in while don't release.


[–]tim_rp14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you are looking for more than sex or abundance, then you are a needy guy looking for validation, and, you will probably implode your marriage.

As someone who thinks about wandering somewhat regularly, this is a solid perspective.

[–]mattizie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This actually happened with my father. Don't do it. It ends in misery.

Now that I am married, I can understand what he went through. But instead of just sex, he became involved with their family and they had a kid together.

The woman he was cheating with took him to court for having sex with all four of her daughters (youngest was 10). I don't know if it was true or not, but he got over 10 years.

I used to be angry, but now I just have pity for a blue-pilled niceguy. He just wanted a family and a wife that loved him. Either way there is nothing good that can come of talking to him.

I don't talk to or see him anymore.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Jesus, I don't know whether to clap or cry.

I hope that this post purges whatever self-doubt you may have been harboring (if any) about your past choices. I hope even more that younger men with hubris confused for abundance learn from what you experienced.

My main take away (of many) from your retrospective, is that men overestimate the value they provide to their families under the guise of "stay for the kids." The time and energy are finite, and spinning plates will take from both.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[–]weakandsensitive5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having true self respect means not bullshitting yourself either.

Old guy knows what's up.

[–]War2kali points points [recovered] | Copy Link

A lot of people think cheating is only fun and games with no drawbacks. These are great points. Excellent post, hits home... thanks.

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is all fun and games until you get caught. I got caught in an inappropriate online affair in my first marriage. It was the beginning of the end of the marriage. The feeling of getting caught is anguish. Looking back at it now though, we had a miserable marriage and a dead bedroom for years.

Currently, I'm remarried for 8 years, and I have never considered cheating on my wife. I don't put myself in positions of temptation. I do day game though, often in front of her. The sex is whenever I want it. This is due to MRP though, and I wouldn't want to tear down what I've worked so hard at by cheating. Just my personal experience.. Take it or leave it.

Oh, and my kids are probably better adjusted since they have at least one model of a successful RP marriage, and a couple reasonably happy parents.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is refreshing to see such a thoughtful and reflective post on any red pill sub so thanks for that. You have searched your soul and changed your opinion on things and now, like Prometheus or Hermes, you are sharing with us. My mother always said when you are young life is all black and white but as you age all you see is shades of gray.

[–]black_second_coming4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is true shit. Putting time and effort into gaming other women isn't worth the loss of focus on yourself. I've been married for 16 years now and I'm just learning this. All the energy I wasted thinking about the what ifs, could have been used to improve my current state.

Now, just a month in, I've upped my effort on myself and have seen immediate results. In building my frame I'm getting the perspective I've needed in my life. I'm not worrying about sex as much, and it's happening more. My relationship with my kids is changing and my oldest son is starting to defer to me instead of my wife. He has a bad temper but the last week or so he has been even keeled, because of me. No more arguments and power struggles, no more constant "why" questions when I tell him no.

The point is, actually getting shit done is changing my marriage and making the grass in my own yard greener than than the soccer moms down the street.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

making the grass in my own yard greener than than the soccer moms down the street.

Nice phrase.

Putting time and effort into gaming other women isn't worth the loss of focus on yourself

For me this is only half true. I think that improving your game is good for you and your marriage.

[–]black_second_coming1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right. I meant gaming other women only and not my wife.

[–]jrocco741 points points [recovered] | Copy Link

This post has a lot of value. Thanks you for posting it.

There is an additional issue with cheating/affairs. A new relationship and great sex with a new person can quickly result in strong feelings/love for the new women. Cheating and affairs by their nature are short lived. 3 to 12 months as a general rule. This "love" during the "hot and heavy" phase can result in some short term thinking. Additionally, when the cheating/affair comes to an end you may find yourself dealing with a double blow to your emotional state. A wife that does not fuck you and a girlfriend that just broke up with you.

Cheating does not always cure Oneists. You may find yourself dealing with a double case of Oneists.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Great description of the upside and downsides of cheating. You can start fucking tomorrow if you want/need sex. Maybe you are a deadbedroom. I guess. When it blows up in your face the next relationship is just as doomed as the first. Lack of actual improvement in yourself will be the continued problems.

Don't buy the "you just need to find the right person" because 99% of the time that isn't true. If you married a woman, there is just as much benefits to reap in a self improved relationship. You make the relationship you want.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think people forget / don't want to consider that "the right person" is just someone who is able to give you the things you need in a relationship. At a minimal thresh hold.

Often, the problem starts when the individuals either decrease the things them provide, or start to increase their expectations.

Thats what a DB is about, really

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Lack of actual improvement in yourself will be the continued problems..........You make the relationship you want.

Yes. Realize that twenty years after that first marriage, the unresolved problems did show back up, and, even though I had the happiest years of my life during those first twenty years with current wife, I ended up here trying to fix me, finally.

Fixing problems that are that long in the tooth, just makes the journey longer, and a little steeper grade up hill, but not impossible like so many would believe.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You got that right. Spot on! There are small things you can tweak for immediate effects. Permanent personality changes are the hardest as you get older.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is some deep shit that leaves alot of room for introspection. So much to takeaway.

I've had this covert contract with myself since I started my journey. If she doesn't start fucking me more regularly by *x** date then I'm going to get a side piece to keep the marriage together for my kids.* This puts a lot of it into perspective.

Thanks man.

[–]mattizie2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What is "catch and release"?

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you get #'s for fun.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Alan is that you?

My brother is closer to me than any other person has been or will ever be. After reading this I think I understand him a little better. I thank you for it.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Poor Alan.

I am sure I will be stupid till the day I die. But if I try real hard, I'll get what I need. Maybe Alan will also.

[–]SampsonBrass points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Maybe he will. Imma call him up. Buy him lunch, see how it's going with wife #3. We can reminisce about cars and the Stones.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Congratulations.

[–]redearththeory1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Great to see you back around.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this update! I've always appreciated your perspective. Your previous post and conversations with cad in particular are among the most helpful and introspection-provoking things I've read here that helped process my resentments, FOMO and kill fantastical thinking.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Excellent perspective. I gave this one some time to roll around in my head.

I am currently combining my goals of being completely dominant comfortable, in control, and (as David Deada would say) giving my greatest gift to the world fully in any social setting with game and pickup for women. I want to walk into any bar, party, venue and feel completely confident with myself, approach anyone, let conversation flow, and maintain a frame of non-neediness (and not feel like my gut is twisting into knots). There is no goal of cheating, getting laid, getting numbers...it's all about improving ME...but I know once I get comfortable enough, the tendrils of progress can dip into those areas and as they do I can decide if I want that or not.

With respect to women, at this point I am taking things sssllloooowwww with a healthy respect for the "it's a slippery slope from catch and release to full fledged cheating/new source of oneitus." I don't believe in any hardline advice (yeah go and do it / no it'll wreck your marriage gauranteed) but by going slow, I can acclimate myself to successes and failures and use the information I learn to tailor my MAP.

Thanks for making me think on this...it is the main front of my improvement right now and I've been needing to sort out what I'm doing.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

"it's a slippery slope from catch and release to full fledged cheating/new source of oneitus."

Yes, it is a slippery slope. The last time I climbed a slippery slope, it took a lot of effort. Women accidentally fall on a dick, but we men, we can't accidentally fall in a pussy. No we have to be sure we know what we are doing, lest we destroy the world. :). Seriously, we do need to be mindful of what we do, lest we act like women.

I don't believe in any hardline advice (yeah go and do it / no it'll wreck your marriage gauranteed)

Hard line advice, seldom works to your advantage. Mostly the dispenser of that advice has an agenda that may, or may not be good for you.

Sorting it out. Yes. The bottom line is this. Too many men, myself included, go hustle pussy without a clue. My story of my first marriage is best described as, Alpha Fucks with Blue Pill mindset. Best

[–]PurpleVeteranMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Grimsterr1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This brings up something I don't see mentioned here often. But it seems to me, owning your shit and building yourself requires no small measure of integrity and honesty. This is MRP so I assume most of you stood in front of an official, and a crowd and you said you would do several things, one of those was probably "forsaking all others". You basically promised not to cheat. I feel that to be a man worthy of respect, and the most important being self respect, you should be a man of your word and keep promises.

Basically, if you're cheating, you're not a man of your word, and not worthy of respect. Just my 2 cents.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

if you're cheating, you're not a man of your word, and not worthy of respect.

Getting awfully close to moralizing there.

We don't do "moral" or "immoral", "right" or "wrong" here. We talk about what works and what doesn't work, what is good for a particular man in a particular situation and what is not, and what helps or hinders men. We talk about wisdom won through hard-fought experience. "Moral", "Immoral", "Right" and "Wrong" doesn't help us. WE need to examine how this thing works without the distortions of moral prisms.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

would do several things, one of those was probably "forsaking all others". You basically promised not to cheat.

Yes, and so did the wives. Within the context of those vows, where does refusing to have sex with your husband fall?

Basically, if you're cheating, you're not a man of your word, and not worthy of respect

If everything was only that simple.

[–]Grimsterr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If it was simple everyone would do it.

Basically what it boils down to is leave before you cheat. Breaking your word because she broke hers just reminds us 2 wrongs still don't make a right.

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"I lost all desire for her and decided to take care of myself."

Problem was not that she refused sex, right? Just that you weren't interested? So you never had to give her the "FMoFY" ultimatum?

Were you sexing her at all, and if not, did she notice and say anything about it?

[–]FRedington0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

... she childishly refuses to accept any responsibility for her bad behavior.

This behavior has nothing to do with "game". It can be a symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or another personality disorder in the Cluster-B set. It is essentially untreatable in that she will deny that she "doesn't accept accountability for her behavior" and that she does not have a mental illness problem. There's no reaching a person so afflicted. The solution is to divorce and move on.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

she childishly refuses to accept any responsibility for her bad behavior.

This was from the composite of the PM's I often get. However, many women that do not have any mental illness will not accept responsibility for their mistakes. In fact, the desire to get a woman to admit her mistakes and make it up to you is very Blue Pill. Once you give up on that Disney dream, it gets better.

[–]screechhaterMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

With that understanding of that one axiom my life changed like flipping a switch. Anger was gone and not giving ten fucks took its place.

Amazingly wife picks up book anout codependent relationships. Reads a section out loud to me am states " I'm gonna copy this and mail it to so and so.....". How about just taking care of you ? "Never would I spend more time on them than me .... " Admitting anything is not in the DNA

[–]FRedington0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I have a woman who does not own her bad behavior then how many other characteristics (DSM-IV) does she exhibit? If that number is high enough, then that is defined as mental illness. QED.

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I never thought that a man could have a mental shift later in life. You old guys are supposed to have all the answers by the time you're 50, right?

The biggest challenge to this RP change is being honest with ourselves. Even if we think we're being honest with ourselves, its always a struggle to maintain that honesty. Our bullshit creeps back in and we resist introspection, naturally.

I would like to think that I'm not playing the cheating game for validation, but I can't honestly believe it 100%. There's absolutely something in me that is a little kid wanting mommy to accept me. Banging sluts isn't going to fix that, therapy might, and red pill started the process, thank god.


If you are looking for more than sex or abundance

There's a post on the main sub currently that deals with this idea of abundance. Maybe you can help me find some clarity.

I've never had an abundance mentality with much of anything, especially women. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I still check an alt email at least once a day to see if any potential hookups have contacted me. (Your lines about using that time to instead improve myself hit home hard.) I'm gaming my wife, and our sex life is decent and improving. But I just can't kick the desire for conquest. To get a hot little number to fall for me (or at least for my dick) is a very satisfying accomplishment, but that's probably because it doesn't happen very often at all.

On the other side of the fence, there are opinions that claim that women aren't all that, and should never be the focus.

Obviously women shouldn't be my focus, but I can't help but put the thrill of the chase really high on my list.

So my musing is, is this desire for conquest an inevitable path? Or is this one instance where forcing myself to learn the easy way - from someone else's mistakes - better? Put another way: is it better to pursue actual, firsthand abundance, or better to conjure theoretical abundance to not risk hurting my family? This abundance issue goes deep into my psyche, and I'm having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

FYI, I'm decided on divorce. I have a long term exit plan that is contingent on kids getting older and finances getting better. 5-10 years out. But what to do with these desires in the mean time? I am the danger to my family, not my wife.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Obviously women shouldn't be my focus, but I can't help but put the thrill of the chase really high on my list.

Do you think a billionaire gives a shit about a thousand dollars?

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. So the question is, what gives the most life satisfaction: acting like I have a billion dollars when I'm poor so I can stop obsessing, or working my ass off to achieve a billion dollars so I can stop obsessing?

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Working your ass off seems like the answer. I think if having sex with random women to the point where you're not longer so hungry is what it takes to get your sensibility, do it.

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's where I'm leaning too. I've tried pretending I have abundance, but the curiosity only sleeps and pops up again randomly.

[–]The_LitzMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I get where you are coming from. I was not very experienced sexually when I got married. So abundance mentality is something that is was not natural to me.

I am of the opinion if I had to adapt an abundance mentality without having sampled the goods I would not have that mindset. I actually had to cheat to feel better about myself, in my blue pill days. Now looking back at those experiences I know for a fact I can get laid outside the marriage.

To answer your question, you won't cultivate abundance if you did not have it before marriage.

Caveat! Cultivating plates is very time consuming. The time and effort spent sneaking around is a bad return on investment.

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you still cheating? Do you still have that need? Or was it "I've done it, so now I know I can do it, so I don't need to do it anymore"?

I work in substance abuse counseling. For some people, marijuana or alcohol are gateway drugs. For others, there's no problem getting buzzed on the weekend if they really feel like it. My reservation is, will I ever be satisfied? As long as I am a man with decent libido, I don't see myself stopping. And I'm not sure that's ok. Still thinking about it.

[–]The_LitzMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My reservation is, will I ever be satisfied?

Short answer, no

The bad part is that you will resent your wife. When she pulls a face at the prospect of giving you a BJ you will think off how your last plate took the money shot in the face and lapped up your man juice.

Sex is actually a small part of the total package, but it is critical for a relationship to work.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

I would like to think that I'm not playing the cheating game for validation, but I can't honestly believe it 100%. There's absolutely something in me that is a little kid wanting mommy to accept me. Banging sluts isn't going to fix that, therapy might, and red pill started the process, thank god.

I have to admit, I find this series of comments a little confusing. Anytime you have attraction and desire in play with a woman, there is some validation. The difference is if that is the ONLY reason (validation) for the encounter. The desire for acceptance, again I see as we all have a little of that or we would never even post here on MRP. In other words, I don't see a problem, but you seem to. Looks like overthink to me, but I honestly think only you can know that.

If you are looking for more than sex or abundance

I think all you are looking for is sex and abundance based on your following statements:

I've never had an abundance mentality with much of anything, especially women. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I still check an alt email at least once a day to see if any potential hookups have contacted me. (Your lines about using that time to instead improve myself hit home hard.) I'm gaming my wife, and our sex life is decent and improving. But I just can't kick the desire for conquest. To get a hot little number to fall for me (or at least for my dick) is a very satisfying accomplishment, but that's probably because it doesn't happen very often at all.

So what you want to gain is, an abundance mentality, and more hot and varied sexual experiences. I suspect this is some long standing lack of experiences and abundance that may not have anything to do with you wife. But you know I'ma still guessing, right?

On the other side of the fence, there are opinions that claim that women aren't all that, and should never be the focus.

Obviously women shouldn't be my focus, but I can't help but put the thrill of the chase really high on my list.

No, your in-born male heritage of wanting sex from women if the focus. Not them, you.

So my musing is, is this desire for conquest an inevitable path?

No, I think each man makes his own path.

Or is this one instance where forcing myself to learn the easy way - from someone else's mistakes - better?

NEVER

Put another way: is it better to pursue actual, firsthand abundance, or better to conjure theoretical abundance to not risk hurting my family? This abundance issue goes deep into my psyche, and I'm having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

In my opinion, in a measured and thoughtful way, yes. A man should do what he needs to do to fulfill his needs.

FYI, I'm decided on divorce. I have a long term exit plan that is contingent on kids getting older and finances getting better. 5-10 years out. But what to do with these desires in the mean time? I am the danger to my family, not my wife.

Only you can decide if it is worth it to you to. For me, again looking back, once I had myself on lock, if I still wanted some side action, I would have done the "out of town" version only. No soccer moms or local cheating hoes. But I NEVER claim to be a example to anyone, just a guy that is willing to share what I know for you to consider. Best

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Looks like overthink to me, but I honestly think only you can know that.

You're right, I wasn't very clear. I was trying to figure out if my desire is for abundance or validation. I think both. Now I have a cleared direction to work towards.

I suspect this is some long standing lack of experiences and abundance that may not have anything to do with you wife

That resonates. I love my wife, and have no hard feelings towards her. She's a great mom and tries hard - and fails - at being a good wife. No complaints. I want her... and others.

Thanks for the feedback.

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

I have a hard time telling you not to experiment and experience what you need to be happy. We are our own judge and we decide what we want and need. That being said, why would you NOT pursue your own happiness? I wish you the Best in your (internal) struggle.

[–]alphabeta49MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've come a long way, I ain't a hot head or clueless. I'm very intentionally going down this path because I know its best for me, and by my happiness, best for my family.

Thanks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Terrific summary and Im sure it was cathartic and insightful for you to spill these thoughts on paper. Well done.

I wanted to add one important factor that some men face:

Wife could be a flight risk in divorce.

If one lives in an expensive city, she will likely tuck tail and run home so that idea that Dad isnt really losing time with kids isnt true

Also, gaming women is time consuming but noone said banging the Ms and strange are mutually exclusive. This keeps the number of Affairs lower and of higher quality.

I do agree 100 percent that affairs for anything other than sex and abundance is out of neediness. Its a man looking for a bandaid for a gaping wound and it wont work

This is why conventional advice says not to do it. They are speaking to average Joe Beta

[–]over60_stupid_loner points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Wife could be a flight risk in divorce.

This and a number of other situations could impact a man's decision to cheat. What if wife was no longer physically capable of sex? What if she gained 300 lb (I think that's a zillion kilos in Canadian)? What if, what if, the list could go on forever. As I said, you are your own judge.

I do agree 100 percent that affairs for anything other than sex and abundance is out of neediness. Its a man looking for a bandaid for a gaping wound and it won't work

I thought that was what I said when I wrote the following, but you probably said it better......

The best reason for affairs is - the sex. The second best reason for an affair is to re-establish your view of abundance. If you are looking for more than sex or abundance, then you are a needy guy looking for validation, and, you will probably implode your marriage

This is why conventional advice says not to do it. They are speaking to average Joe Beta

Yes, of course I am speaking to Joe Beta. Of the thousands of MERP's on this sub, how many could improve themselves or their situation by cheating? I do not encourage children play with dynamite, either.

Simply put, a man should know what he is doing, and why he is doing it, when we uses his weapons.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

cheat. What if wife was no longer physically capable of sex

not cheating.

I would assume that if wife not physically capable of sex, I get sex elsewhere if I don't want to divorce her wholesale.

But like anything else, its not cheating if she can't or won't.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

its not cheating if she can't or won't.

This should be a law.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thought it was.

If not. I dub it Scurvemuch's Law. Sidebar it.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I added Scurvemurch's Law as the final definition on my Jargon and terminology post which is linked in the leading "Who are We" post on the sidebar. New guys will read the jargon and terminology and it ends with that. Almost deliberately.

[–][deleted] points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Was wondering which way you were gonna go with this post.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He did a nice job hitting all the high notes

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Making a comment to come back and read this when I can focus

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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