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Disclaimer As always, my posts are advanced level MRP. Newbies beware, do not try anything like this until you've been doing this correctly for at least six months (preferably a year), are objectively attractive, and have already built a solid frame, or shit like this could nuke your marriage. Keep stuff like this in your back pocket, as they say.


So if you've seem the movie The Usual Suspects (and you should)(mild Spoiler Alert), you'll recall the scene where rival cartels try to intimidate Keyser Soze by breaking into his house and holding his wife and kids at gunpoint. Keyser comes home, assesses the situation, draws his gun, and shoots...his own wife and kid! He then shoots the thugs, who are too shocked to react, letting one live to tell his bosses what transpired. The message: there is literally nothing that you can threaten to take from Keyser Soze to make him bend his will.

(Obviously I don't advocate this or any type of violence whatsoever, but this is here for my fat girl admirers from TBP and their mangina friends - 'Sup bitches!)

So last Friday I'm reading some of Rollo's new posts, and this line stuck with me. To paraphrase: "No moment of pussy is ever worth a loss of frame". Little did I know that phrase was foreshadowing things to come.


So after a fun and sex filled weekend, I tell my wife Monday that I want her in her white lingerie so I can handcuff her to the bed and ravage her later. She says she'll put the outfit on before bed when we go upstairs after our cocktails. Whatever. So we discuss this trip she planned for a few Saturday's from now - a night at a hotel in a nearby casino city. She has a restaurant booked, arranged for the kid to stay at her mom's that night, the works. Anyways, I earlier in the weekend floated the concept of going to this Halloween themed party at a sex club in this city, and told her to look for good superhero costumes online. She doesn't shoot it down, initially plays coy. So Monday night I ask her if she found any good costumes.

her: Rex, wait, is this some kind of sex club?

Me: yes, I told you it was

Her: I told you I don't want to be a swinger

Me: me neither. We aren't doing anything with anyone. We're going to do something different by having some drinks, observing, and hanging out.

Her: So people can just be having sex there?

Me: yeah, they have areas for that if the mood strikes

Her: (now explosively angry) that sounds disgusting! Why would you ever think I'd want to go to a place like that!

Me: (probably should've STFU, but) Hey, it's a different, once in a lifetime thing to do for the experience. If it's hot and heavy, maybe we get hot and heavy. If everyone there is fat, old, and ugly, we'll have something we can laugh our asses off about the rest of our lives. Either way it should be interesting.

Her: shut up Rex! Just stop even talking right now, or I'm canceling the trip!

Me: [STFU and thinking about her threat to deprive me of something in order to end a simple discussion]


So as the show were watching is ending, I silently start cleaning up. She asks what's wrong with me. I keep STFU. We go upstairs, get ready for bed. Her: I'll still put on that outfit and have sex the way you wanted if you can be a nice boy. (Remember Rollo's line here. She doesn't actually want to fuck me right now, she wants to use her pussy to pull me into her frame).

Me: not interested.

Her: why not?

Me: (could've STFU here, but) you are acting like a child, and I don't fuck children. Goodnight.

Her: if you're going to have this attitude, then maybe we shouldn't go on this trip

Me: then cancel it

Her: I will

Me: pick up your phone and do it now

Her: I'll do it later

Me: OK.

So I get up, go to the computer room, cancel the trip, and bring her the confirmation sheet.

She explodes with all sorts of rambling, I keep saying "goodnight", she won't shut up, so I tell her I need to sleep and can't do it with her babbling, so I leave with my stuff and go to the guest bedroom.

We maybe say 10 words to each other the next day. I don't kiss her goodbye, nothing. I show no interest in returning to the main bed.

Yesterday morning, I realize that if I want normalcy, it's my job to lead her there. So before I leave for work, I give her a kiss and tell her to "be safe" like usual. Only one text during the day, telling her I'll meet her at my daughters gymnastics class later.

I show up at gymnastics, my Starbucks in hand, nothing for wife. When I see her, I act as though nothing ever happened - happy to see her, joking with kid, etc. Turns out she bought me a candy treat at the store, and commented on how I didn't get her anything from Starbucks even though I knew she would want something. Me: "I'll let you try some of mine. It's the new Chile Mocha". Evening proceeds as normal.

So later at home I'm going through the normal night routine getting daughter ready for bed. Wife comes upstairs, says she forgot her water downstairs, could I go down and get it? Me, jovially: "are your legs broken or something?" We banter for a minute, then she says she has a surprise down there for me. I go, and she has two glasses of wine poured, a lit candle, and a note asking if we can be friends again. I find out later that she has put on the white lingerie underneath her sweats, so she brings that out after kid is asleep. Passionate sex ensues. DEERing does not (before we have our wine she says "I'm not apologizing." Me: "me neither", give her a wink and a slap on her bare ass.


The takeaways:

  1. Nuking a nice trip like I did should only be done very sparingly, and only for a damn good reason. Why did I do it? Because I wanted to demonstrate to her that there is nothing, literally nothing, that she can threaten to withdraw or deprive me of that can alter my resolve (that I will not be browbeaten, disrespected, or made to capitulate under any sort of threat from her). Be careful with this men. Nuking shit like this too much for no good reason will make you come off as an unbearable, no-fun, mega prick, which equals unattractive. Don't be unattractive.

  2. Whether nuking the trip was the correct move or not, owning that decision and holding frame thereafter is critical. I nuked the trip. I withdrew affection (leaving her to go to the guest room). I let her know that she was welcome back into my frame (good morning kiss two days later). I'm then given dark chocolate, wine, and porn star sex.

  3. You must be "hawt" enough and have a frame made of solid titanium before you do something like this. You must have total, internalized abundance mentality, and you must truly give no fucks whatsoever as to her reaction. If you have not fully internalized this shit and have been living it every day, your wife will see right through you. You'll come off as a spoiled baby with a ridiculous attempt at wresting power away from mommy, and it will backfire on you hard core.

Edit: formatting (fucking mobile)

Edit2: my "resolve" was not to force her to go to this club - it was that I will not tolerate being threatened in any way, shape, or form.


[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Bloopers have decided for their daily dopamene rush with this post. Voting may be skewed.

If you don't want to waste some time reading, TLDR: OP is an asshole for every reason ever

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nuking shit like this too much for no good reason

If you're nuking shit to win, you've already lost - because the default position there is you're not winning.

Her: (now explosively angry) that sounds disgusting! Why would you ever think I'd want to go to a place like that!

Me: (probably should've STFU, but) Hey, it's a different, once in a lifetime thing to do for the experience. If it's hot and heavy, maybe we get hot and heavy. If everyone there is fat, old, and ugly, we'll have something we can laugh our asses off about the rest of our lives. Either way it should be interesting.

This was DEER - which is why you failed. You tried to logic her.

Better - "i thought you were cool."/"my girlfriend likes it." continued negativity = "okay. i'll see you later." use more qualifiers - make her give you reasons to invest in her.

in any case - the person acting like the child was you, imo. you violated the first rule - you wanted mommy's approval instead of making a decision to do something and letting her follow if she wanted (with the expectation that she wants to follow).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Better - "i thought you were cool."/"my girlfriend likes it." continued negativity = "okay. i'll see you later." use more qualifiers - make her give you reasons to invest in her.

-Wait, so you don't want me to take the hottest girl there home with me?

although I can't say I don't understand the loss of frame here.

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wanted to think about what you said for a bit before responding. You're right. Had I not botched this portion, the cancellation threat probably doesn't happen.

I knew I fucked this part up right away, hence the parenthetical, but not the full implications of it. Good point.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the cancellation was a good move. it's a good reminder to not make empty threats. the only bad is that you failed to recognize that your own failure lead to the situation.

if i were you - i would apologize. it'd go something like "i'm sorry i was acting like a child about the sex club. next time i'll go alone and make some friends if you're not comfortable not being there. no worries." trip stays cancelled because that was her threat you helped push through.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Someday man. Whole FR was aced. Its shit like this I take most out of this sub from.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I have a general outlook strategy question here- I've been pursuing decoupling our sexlife from well, everything and it's working wonders (even though I'm still an obese fuck, YIEL). Whatever the hell is going on in our lives it stays out of the bedroom is the idea. Decoupling the intimacy from everything is what I take from goals of OI, ending covert contracts, etc. The idea that nothing affects sex and sex affects nothing. It's more like a massage or something people use to relax together and have fun to escape the stresses of life.

Granted that I'm not a sexy abs beast yet... is the ultimate goal to then return sex to a conditionalized behavior again? How is this different from when our wives weaponize sex?

As a follow-up more generally: is not wanting to go to a sex club... really disrespectful? How is this not butthurt.

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As to your second point, re-read my Edit2 above. I realized that I wasn't clear enough in the OP. If she doesn't want to go to the sex club, fine. I don't force this woman to do anything, and I really don't want her doing something she doesn't organically want to do - that would be building a covert contract and is to be avoided. The disrespect was her attempting to threaten/punish me by withdrawing/depriving me of something (nice weekend getaway). Bullshit of this nature will not be tolerated.

As to your first point, (again, maybe I could have been clearer), I don't couple it with sex. The point I was trying to make is that if you demonstrate, not explicate, that you won't stand for her (or anyone else's) childish horseshit, it generates tingles and elevates her respect for you as a man, though it may anger/upset her in the moment. Same with holding that frame - think I would've gotten the royal treatment had I instead apologized for being so harsh and asked her to spend time with me? I doubt it.

So it's not done with the covert expectation of getting sex - it's done because it needs to be done. The sex tends to be a natural byproduct of that.

I agree with your decoupling idea for mundane shit like keeping work and logistics talk out of the bedroom, but you can't separate looks, attitude and frame from sex entirely. It is these things which generate the desire from within her, or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I missed the edit. Makes sense.

Yeah, I can see this is where not having those glistening abs and sexy v-line to turn her brain off is holding me back. All of these tingle tactics aren't available to me yet. In my situation due to my lack of panty-moistening raw animal magnetism, my wife's hamster would just decide to tiptoe around eggshells again to avoid my explosive emotional outbursts. Someday! Until then I'll try and stick to those spots where you suggest shutting up might have been prudent.

Something to motivate my lifts! TY

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm still an obese fuck

that explains why you're purple pill. you might read this and think this is a put down. it's not. it's an uncomfortable truth. attractive men with positive outlooks are going to be more red pill than unattractive men with negative worldviews simply because they have more reference experience that fall in line with red pill edicts.

you do sex because that's what sets your marriage apart. if my wife isn't going to fuck me, i'm sure i can find someone that will. if i'm not fucking my wife, i'm sure she can find someone that will. it's primal. this is understood in my relationship.

the point about not disrespectful is correct. it's not disrespectful. op failed at leadership and outcome independence. op is right - don't indulge empty threats or false takeaways. expect people to mean what they say and say what they mean. being able to be forthright about all feelings, positive and negative (and YOU knowing how to handle negative ones) is the highest respect.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No offense taken. I don't care about the label really. I just wish I understood what it meant! Nobody can define it.

I definitely do not have oneitis and I never have. I got married long ago before I ever heard of "oneitis" but the concept of "one true love / soul mate" never made sense to me in the first place--most people lived their lives within small geographic regions. So at best you're ever going to find a local maxima. And anyway my standards are such that there were always a few women I was interested in. So even within the restrictions of local geography there were multiple acceptable mates. Not that I pursued them, but I was aware that what I have with my wife is to a large part what we chose. I was always taught that marriage is about finding someone who you can take on the journey. People change and grow, trying to preserve the past is pointless. She satisfied what I required and I love her a lot. But I'm not angry about that and I don't think anyone deceived me about anything. I guess you could say- I don't hate the player and I don't hate the game.

Purple is a good color for a dildo anyway.

[–]IASGame3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think you did well. Don't negotiate with terrorists.

"Shoot the hostage" is advanced, but sometimes it is the right strategy.

I guess in this case the "Shoot the hostage taker" option would be to take the trip by yourself (saves the hostage, which was the trip, screws the hostage taker, which was your wife). Is there a reason you didn't go for this option, the default MRP advice I think would be "I'm going, feel free to join me".

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In the moment, I figured that she booked the trip, on her own initiative, under her name, and was now trying to dangle its life in front of me. In this specific context, it seemed the best way to get the message across was to shoot the hostage.

Agree that, had I arranged this trip, the 100% correct thing would be "I'm going no matter what, join me or don't." In that case shooting the hostage is basically shooting yourself in the foot.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I did that once. Rescheduled it as a guys weekend and she begged me to let her come instead.

"Babe, I'm a man of my word. I can't cancel on the boys now".

The irony was not lost on her. She's never pulled that shit again.

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm stealing this for next time...if there ever is a next time.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Consider it a gift.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Going solo is a massive comfort nuke. I've done it, I suggest it to others, but am aware of it's power. It's not to be used lightly, or when not hawt

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I didn't find their chilli drink to be that spicy.. Do you like them?

Love the cancellation btw. I've done it myself often. The ensuing backpedaling is always good for a laugh.

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Agree 100% about the chili drink. Needed way more heat to be interesting

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And for lurkers, while I am curious about the drink, this is also a point on the importance held to the old ladies childish rants.

Giving that coffee more spice was the only part I would be miffed with at the end.

Thanks though, was tempted to get one now in case I misjudged, will stick with my black dark roast. Already pissed they discontinued sugar free hazelnut

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Starbucks black dark roast may be the best coffee around. +1

[–]spexerMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Similar situation yesterday.

Working from home.. sexy time teased and assumed for the lunch break in about an hour. But during the current coffee break where my wife and I were chatting, her response to my playful flirty banter was too aggressive and disrespectful.

I stewed about this during the next hour, and when she came bouncing in for lunch, suggesting we get to sexytime, I was not game.

But I didn't STFU and let her hamster figure it out. I tried to quickly just say that first, she needs to know I won't be treated this way... blah blah blah.

So I talked way too much. We did eventually have sex that afternoon.. but I am seasoned enough to know that is not the goal or a win in itself.

Appearances would be that all is good but I know I lost significant ground.

Compliments to you for the way you handled it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or change up the power dynamic.

In office secretary sexy time is always fun.

She can even be your wife.... ( I am suggesting she play that role)

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

imo Edit2 is critical

A lotta guys (myself included) would have missed this early on and the FR reads like what most new guys are only trying to achieve when they sprinkle a little alpha on it - their goal is forcing her to go the club.

You're a boss for writing this up and being about six months in myself, your timeline assessment is accurate. I can see this type of frame on my horizon but I am not there yet.

They realized that to be in power, you didn't need guns or money or even numbers. You just needed the will frame to do what the other guy wouldn't. ~Keyser Soze

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And then he showed those men of will frame what will frame really was. - Keyser Soze

[–]screechhaterMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, can't negotiate, just don't waste your time. Remain in frame no matter the consequences of the next 48 hours or more

Your responses in making your agenda prevail and sticking by your guns, get's her to rethink her agenda and that her agenda has become this is where she has fucked up and has to back down. Each time you hold frame, and hold steady, you get back to your agenda she will realize, you are the leader.

Tremendous success and succinct frame and agenda directive of yours, can be acquired jumping into two a days @ the gym, for anyone @ any stage that just can't get there. For whatever reason, the mind over body exhaustion just forsakes the emotional response and squashes it for Mallows Hierarchy and emotions are not one of them. In turn you flat out exhaustion will be pushing fuel up, hydrate, sleep and necessary directives, not others agendas

[–]LizzyRose14710 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man tries to blackmail woman into something she is clearly sexually very uncomfortable with. Fails. Screws them both over by cancelling a nice trip she had put the effort into planning. Screws himself over completely and somehow concludes he's come out of this a winner rather than a childish asshole. This actually made me laugh out loud.

[–]LeftShark86-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Your "frame" is wanting to go to a sex club? That's adorable. GTFO and update us after you've finished junior high.

You're a shit captain. Fuck off. :)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You haven't been to one? it's fun if you don't have a stick up your ass.

[OP was banned for faggotry]

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sniff, sniff

But seriously, read my Edit2. Reading comprehension helps too.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow that dude was literally the guy I hypothesized about in my comment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Dig it. Good to see a man in control.

The drink sounds weird but interesting I might grab one. I always put unsweetened cocoa powder in when I make chili.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mole-esque.

The original chocolate drinks first brought to Europe by the Spanish from Central America were unsweetened and often contained ground chiles.

Cinnamon and chile de arbol in hot chocolate and mocha coffees is very good.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

cocoa was only put with sugar recently, was always a spicey ingriedient in it's history.

Thats why cocoa tastes so damned good in chilli

[–]trp_dudeHard Core Red-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is not nuking. It's called being butthurt.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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