During my ingestion period I read some articles, mostly scholarly or derived from scholarly, that kinda said the same thing different ways...when women are exposed to a sexual stimulus...they can become aroused...they just may not know it.

For example:

Make a male heterosexual student watch gay sex or two dogs humping...and nothing happens. He is neither aroused physically or consciously.

Make a female student watch gay sex or two dogs humping or a rape scene ...and her vagina becomes lubricated with moisture and oxygenated with increased blood flow. These women will report that they are not aroused, feel no sexual response, and have no desire/attraction. But their bodies ARE responding to visual sexual stimulus. My take is the war brides dynamic. If a woman witnesses something within the sexual realm, it would improve her evolutionary fitness if she also became physically aroused, if not consciously aware of it. In fact it would probably behoove her to be as unconscious as possible during the post-battle rape orgy.

We are the decedents of men who killed off half a village and took the women. Our wives are the descendants of women who were physically prepared to be taken forcefully without being reproductively damaged, and had enough cognitive dissonance to not be psychologically broken.

The women are not attracted to, do not desire, rape or dogs humping, but it did arouse them. I think we would like our women to be attracted/desire us and be aroused constantly. But sometimes we have to take one before the other. Many of us here have read enough about "Responsive-Desire," the "10 second kiss" etc..

I think we're all used to the dynamic where our wives are "attracted" to our "nice-guy" or "betaness" but not aroused or desirous at all, we have to work hard for that shit, get them in the mood, 20 minutes of foreplay, some tongue-clit action etc..., to get them aroused, and desirous enough for some good sex. Sometimes we will luck onto a moment were they have arousal for whatever reason, ovulation, movie etc..., and we get to capitalize on it by parlaying it into attraction/desire for ourselves.

On the contrary, early on I remember my girl and I reading on our phones, I mentioned that she had responsive desire. She said "what does that mean?" We were laying on the sofa, I picked her up, took her to the bedroom, threw her down on the bed forcefully, and proceeded to ravage her passionately ( I honestly thought I was overdoing it on the acting). She was wild with desire in 15 seconds and much fluid was spent. Afterwards she said she enjoyed that but would rather "make love" most the time. I said sure, I'll wait for you to make love to me. We all know how that went. A week later I could tell she was getting sexually frustrated so I ravaged her again out of nowhere; her response? "Why did you make me wait that long?" I had to give her my desire and my arousal. She's still that way 95% of the time. Willing, but needing my desire and arousal, sometimes I build up arousal and make love, or have passionate sex, and sometimes I ravage her.

So OP is right, you can't negotiate desire because they do not have it most the time, and if they are aroused they are not aware of it. At this point Rollo likes to mention lesbian bed death. Without a man's initiation and desire, women don't fuck. OP is right that to get desire out of a woman you have to activate it somehow, negotiation is not the method. SMV, dread, game, and your own passion are some tools that do.