TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

50

Response to AskMRP: 17-year Oneitis Marriage; You Can't Fix your Marriage... You Can Only Fix You (self.marriedredpill)

submitted by RPAlternate42

There was a post, very recently, in AskMRP wherein user /u/throw_away_acct4 seeks help in his 17-year marriage.

My Take on His Marriage

I believe he got married young. He clearly did it too quickly (3 weeks after meeting her) and this indicates a strong sense of oneitis for this woman. My guess is that she wasn't quite at the wall, but saw it on the horizon and thought she might be able to secure her place in the feminine social structure, and avoid the wall altogether, by marrying a guy who was nice enough, I guess... and kind of cute but wasn't her ideal exit ride on the CC.

^^I ^^don't ^^know ^^his ^^chronology ^^or ^^her ^^sexual ^^history, ^^but ^^I'm ^^applying ^^broad ^^strokes ^^to ^^his ^^picture.

Summary of his post

Married 17 years, not well-off, but better than financial survival. He's in a DB and she is emotionally withholding from him, meanwhile, she babies their 14 year old son as if he was half his age.

He is aware of Red Pill but seems to be wielding it bluntly, clumsily, and only with purpose towards her. He thought losing 22 lbs would be a magic bullet and I'm guessing he constantly talked about his progress looking for validation and a gold star sticker for his reward poster hanging on the fridge.

I don't believe he has read the sidebar otherwise NMMNG would have nipped this in the bud a while ago, WISNIFG would have informed his actions towards his (lack of) child-rearing ability, and MMSLP would have assisted him in creating a comprehensive MAP for himself.

Prologue

There have been some great Comments in response to this from the likes of /r/Archwinger and /r/JackTenofHearts, and /r/UEMcGill (you know... the usual suspects.) One of the great things about this subreddit is that it gives everyone almost instant access to respond and that everyone offers a different point of view. Some will offer almost exact information and advice and some will offer slightly different POVs.

Absorb everything you read in here; someone's responses and posts will resonate deeper than others. We are all different and the women we are with are all different: RedPill is not as cookie cutter as the main sub would like you think.

I had started to write this as a simple comment response, but as I am oft to do, it ballooned from a simple set of observations to a need to a whole thing.

Without more ado:

From Your Post: Your Problems

I've applied some of principles of theRedPill to my marriage and it's done more harm than good

You don't apply RedPill to your marriage; you apply it to yourself.

We have very little sex. She does not enjoy sex at all (she has no desire and cannot orgasm). I knew this going in to the relationship but I thought that would change.

She does not enjoy sex at all with you.

She is not emotional, cuddly, touchy-feely. She could go day after day with no touching, hugging, etc. (I'm the opposite though I wish I wasn't)

I'm willing to bet you are more touchy-feely-cuddly because you see it as a stepping stone to higher intimacy and you are looking for a crutch for the missing intimacy; If she would just hold me, then I would know that everything is alright.

She is emotional, cuddly, and touchy-feely. She just isn't those things with you.

I can't say anything to my son in a negative, fatherly way without it being an argument with her. She still clips his toenails, cuts up his meat at dinner, and things like that. If I bring it up she goes off on me.

You won't be able to stop her from doing anything... right now. However, there is hope.

The Red Pill, and You

Married Red Pill isn't for your marriage. Married Red Pill is simply Red Pill praxeology applied while in the confines context of a marital relationship. Married Red Pill isn't about your marriage any more than The Red Pill is. I would even go so far as to say that The Red Pill is more about marriage than Married Red Pill is. Of course, I don't mean literally, but I will explain this paradox.

Go on the main sub and especially /r/AskTRP and witness how almost every post and question involves how can I... girls or what si the best way... women, and the every-increasingly popular and quasi-MRA posts about feminist this and feminism-that. Everything they do, whether they choose to admit it or not, is centered around women. Of course, this stands to reason as The Red Pill is about Sexual Strategy but they always smack, at least to me, of validating through women in this small way. Still, when stripped bare, they will hold the line of "male improvement."

Married Red Pill on the other hand knows that we are (for the most part) without the availability of other women with which to apply the RP sexual strategy. Since we are "stuck" with the one woman, we don't worry so much about doing things about her or towards her... we are more (in my opinion) specifically centered on True Self-Improvement.

You claimed that Red Pill may have done more harm than good. This is impossible since Red Pill is about you and not her (or even your marriage.)

The first thing you need to internalize, from this point forward, is I am a married man who is now practicing to be single.

As this path continues forward, as you improve, as you become more physically, emotionally, and psychologically attractive, you may find that she likes this improved version of you and wishes to hang around you more often.

Or you may find that she is still a sexually-withholding shrew or that she still doesn't find you attractive in any way and divorce is the only way.

Stop trying to fix your marriage and start fixing you. You can't fix her and if you are fixed and she is broken then the marriage is broken. Once you start focusing on you, then, and only then, will a truly assertive and attractive man be revealed not just to her, but you as well.

The Sexual Desert

You didn't state how often you have sex. You only stated that she doesn't like sex, and din't before the marriage.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but the only way she will enjoy sex (if the above is true) is that you become better than you were when you first met. I won't even delve into how thinking you could change her opinion of sex with you is even possible.

Yeah, You read it correctly: with you. the fact is that your wife loves sex. And given the right guy, she would spread her legs with intent to multiply your brood faster than a catholic rabbit. You, however, do not inspire such feelings. Hey, I get it because I was in the same boat: she loved having me around for the social and financial security and the reminder that she is worthy enough to be married... but I didn't inspire the tingles.

The good news is you can only go up from here. You need to stop being so thirsty about and stop allowing it to dictate your life. This is where we employ OI and the IDGAF attitude ^(see ^the ^end ^for ^what ^this ^truly ^means). when she rejects you, "okay," and then go do something else. You're new enough at this where starfish sex is basically the same as a rejection for sex. If she is going to be indifferent about sex, then you can be indifferent as well: zip up and go do something else without her, or fuck her like a despondent hooker and then zip up and go do something else. I've employed both tactics to positive results.

On top of all of this, you need to live like a man with options. She knows she is the only oasis in this sexual desert. When she sees that you are being offered bottles of water without her, she will respond. Dread Levels 1-6.

Emotional Availability

This one will change when the sex frequency changes. Remember the guy that would make her fuck like a pornstar? Well he's also the guy she would hang on and hug, and touch, and kiss, and do stuff for. The guy who inspires the most tingles is the guy who gets the most attention from her. With a lack of available options she will turn that energy into something else.

Once you have passive dread working for you, are using OI successfully, are improving physically and in the way you dress, then sex will improve, rejections will cease, and starfish will turn into better sex. As this happens, you will notice changes in her emotional availability.

However, it's important to note that you shouldn't be looking for emotional support or validation from her; expect none of it. As far as she's concerned, right now, you aren't worthy. And you aren't.

Self-Improvement

You need to start reading the sidebar yesterday. MMSLP is the book that literally opened my eyes to Red Pill. If I had to put one book out there that I would recommend only, MMSLP is that book. It very cleanly wraps up RP in a very easy-to-digest manner.

You, however, NEED NMMNG. You seem to require validation from her and you probably throw little temper tantrums in your head and have fake conversations with her when she isn't around. I didn't need NMMNG so much. I already had the selfish-like attitude nailed down.

WISNIFG is another you NEED. You seem to have a problem with setting boundaries and expectations (which NMMNG will also help with) but WISNIFG will help you enforce those boundaries. Boundaries, specifically, pertaining to your kid.

Epilogue: What is IDGAF?

It literally means I Don't Give a Fuck. But this is misleading, especially for a novice. IDGAF becomes I'm angry and I don't care about anything you do or say.

IDGAF, when deployed properly is actually selective indifference. When something is going your way and she is good, you are happy, chipper, and altogether pleasant about it. When she is "mean" or "bad" you are indifferent towards her but happy about everything else. The key to proper IDGAF is never being angry.


[–]BluepillProfessor 18 points19 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

you shouldn't be looking for emotional support or validation from her; expect none of it. As far as she's concerned, right now, you aren't worthy. And you aren't.

Still pisses me right off that when you need her emotional support and validation that is when you can expect the least of it. When you are completely independent and don't need her for shit- that is when she provides all the emotional support and validation that you don't need.

Same with sex- if you show her your thirst it will repel her. If you show you are indifferent and could honestly take it or leave it suddenly she wants sex all the time.

Go figure.

[–]HB10bitch1 points [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

That's because women have a hard time finding the advantage in nursing a wounded mate. It makes them feel like a mother when they prefer/need a warrior. Women traditionally do not have the strength or agility of men, so when a man needs emotional support or relief from sexual frustration, it shows they aren't as strong as previously predicted. When they are strong and able to protect (built well, good grooming, great frame, so on) that's the things they lack and what they look for.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

He's lamenting their use. He understands the reasons.

Basically like having a gun that works perfectly, unless your house is being broken into

[–]HB10bitch 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Explain, please.

[–]TurduckenII 4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Women can act either turned on or nurturing, but not at the same time. When they act turned on, it meant that everything is good in the world, there is plenty of food, plenty of safety, and that she sees a member of the tribe who she feels attracted to because of his good genes. If he makes her feel safe, that's a plus, but not a necessity for a short-term mating strategy. Women see enthusiastic sex opportunistically, when the stars align. They perform duty sex as little as possible to keep the beta males that she associates with in line in order to extract as much resources as possible without compromising their alpha reproductive strategy.

When women act nurturing, then they are caretaking. Oxytocin, a bonding chemical, is released. This is a very natural state of woman. However, the neurological and hormonal process that leads to caretaking inhibits arousal. It's understandable that to the female brain, if you're spending a lot of time caretaking that you have a needy child and you don't need to conceive another one. Even if she's providing emotional support to her husband, to her brain it is a needy child and although she can do that if she values him, it will turn her off. Usually, however, she looks at a needy man's actions and thinks "needy child" and gets turned off, but DOES NOT provide the emotional support, because he is fully grown and she does not want to do that for a grown man. She will for a child, but not for her husband. She will provide emotional support when he does not need it to show him that she is a caring woman who could make a good mother. It's not for his benefit.

When men are down on their luck and crave emotional validation to help them continue to struggle for resources and status, sex makes them feel like they matter, it makes them feel like they do have worth because a woman has approved them, it makes them feel like they're at the very least secure in their reproduction if not in their success. A man would love a woman to support him emotionally and sexually when he needs it, but it's an antithesis for a woman to do so. To a man, emotional and sexual support are very, very close. To a woman, they are completely different and occur at different times. This conflict is lamented by OP. /u/stonepimpletilists likens a woman's support to a gun that won't fire if the house is broken into. If that's when you need a gun, then why is it that a woman will only support you when you don't need it, and refuses to (and shit tests more often on top of it) when you're down on your luck?

I hope this makes sense.

[–]HB10bitch 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Great explanation, and I agree with you.

I don't, however, agree with that analogy:

This conflict is lamented by OP. /u/[deleted] likens a woman's support to a gun that won't fire if the house is broken into (in response to BPP). If that's when you need a gun, then why is it that a woman will only support you when you don't need it, and refuses to (and shit tests more often on top of it) when you're down on your luck.

She encouraging the good, and mad about the "bad".

As you mentioned in your above comment which I very happily like, she's just doing what she needs to do. She is being a mother (if she has a child, so why should she want one in her husband)?

Guys should get their emotional support from their male friends and try to appear like what the woman wants; a strong support for things she can't do and try to keep that alpha reproductive strategy if he also wants to get what he desires (sex).

She isn't just a "gun", sounds like to me, you're treating her like a toothbrush trying to vacuum and getting pissed that your floors are still dirty. Brushes your teeth fine, scrubs the hard to reach in the shower areas and promotes good health, but when you try to do something that it could do, just not realistically, you can't be mad that you want something to be everything just for you. At some point, you have to see what works and continue that instead of getting pissed that you want to stick this toothbrush back into your mouth after it's fucking dirty. You're making it dirty and then upset that it didn't clean itself properly (it can't) to brush your own fucking teeth that you need to do anyway.

Edit: Clairty

[–]enfier 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Guys should get their emotional support from their male friends and try to appear like what the woman wants

There is no emotional support among men. Your backup roster is one deep and the nameplate reads "You."

If you want something practical to do to actually support a man, just simply believe in him. You don't need to hear out his problems, but you can tell him that you are sure he can fix it and if he needs you to do something you'll do it without complaining. Men find a lot more fight in them when there are people behind them reliant on their success.

[–]HB10bitch1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Should it read as reliance as a form of support?

Why/Why not?

[–]enfier 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We could speak to this on a number of levels.

Biologically, men are programmed to protect the weak. If you stick a spear in my hand and tell me to kill a lion, I'm going to avoid the conflict. Throw my wife and a newborn behind me and you'll have a lion pelt in no time. At some level, the same goes for finding a job.

From a psychological standpoint, if you want to take a person to take responsibility, you express genuine confidence in their ability and let them suffer the consequences of their actions. It's a parenting strategy that it's designed for raising responsible kids, but it works just as well for husbands and wives. You are boosting self confidence while also increasing ownership.

From another point of view, people love to be needed. Most people want to feel that they are a necessary part of a larger group. If your husband feels unneeded, he feels disposable, and relationship security is damaged.

In a purely selfish standpoint, men are generally all about fair treatment and providing for their loved ones, so stepping out of the way and just asking for what you want without expectation is a lot more likely to result in what you are looking for.

In personal experience, I at one point dated a woman that used that sort of strategy before I ever stumbled across TRP and trust me when I say it was effective.

Deep down, we all know that you could take care of yourself. If all it takes to keep your husband or boyfriend fired up and attracted to you is a bit of feigned reliance, then why not?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

It's a metaphor for utility. Women aren't tools, and its the professors statement.

I would like girls to a water gun in the same situation, they just aren't built for protection, just fun

[–]HB10bitch1 points [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

its the professors statement.

I'll edit to reflect.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I would rather you stay out of the locker room lady

[–]RPAlternate42[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If she's in the locker room, then she needs to see my dick

[–]HB10bitch1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought you guys liked to be watched. /s

Regardless, I was contributing constructively and not maliciously or ignorantly. I laid out the case, and it made sense, did it not?

I had no idea this was [this] (http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/2013/07/03/little_rascals_hi_sign.gif)

If the convictions are strong and logical, and if I present the same sane head, it should not, nor ever, be a problem. I'm sure you agree. You never know, you may like a woman watching or joining in, right?

[–]cj_aubrey 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am a married man who is now practicing to be single.

I think this should be a central concept here. I was thinking about this a couple days ago, as a guide, in the form of "how would I be living if I was single?" Well, I'd be lifting, practicing game, working on my wardrobe, trying to make more money, building male friendships, creating a vision for my life, and taking full responsibility for where its going since I'm not relying on anyone but me. I definitely wouldn't be seeking a woman's approval, getting angry at a woman who denied sex, or tolerating a woman's disrespect. Sure, I have some family responsibilities around helping with childcare and sexual fidelity, but emotionally, I now consider myself to be single.

[–]The_Litz 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I used to have this kind of fantasy escape in my head where I would daydream about how I would do stuff and how I would live my life after divorcing my wife. All the good stuff I want.

Now I am making that my reality. Granted it is slow, but I am doing it. A small and stupid example is I put my hifi in my bedroom, where I actually wanted it for years. As I said stupid example, but why must I be allowed a little space somewhere at the end of the house and let me call it a mancave. Fuck that, the whole house is my castle.

Grasp that daydream and make it your reality.

[–]Sadbeary 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A guy at work mentioned he had a mancave and it made me cringe. Reminded me of my alcoholic father hiding out in the shed because he hated his wife and his life. "The whole house is my castle": like it

[–]tim_rp 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I am a married man who is now practicing to be single.

For me, this just distils the whole point of MRP into a single sentence. Bravo!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It also captures some of the anger and pain of swallowing MRP. I didn't really enjoy being single. I foolishly believed getting married would instantly solve my problems ("Finally someone who will love me unconditionally in spite of my problems"). MRP means giving up that fantasy and accepting that fact and getting back to work on those problems that never went away.

[–]Sadbeary 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Finally someone who will love me unconditionally in spite of my problems"

Yeah, and you can count on them to have your back if the going gets rough; not. How can you not be angry when you realize this is all bullshit?

AWALT helps with the anger...it makes as much sense being angry at my wife for displaying females' least inspiring traits as it would being angry at a bear for shitting in the woods.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with you Tim. One of the best bits of MRP wisdom put out by the sages here was to maintain your place and do chores around it like you're single. Don't ask for anyone's permission, but just do what you know needs to be done. Action not words.

[–]RPAlternate42[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a whole post I never made about this same subject. Maybe I'll revisit it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seriously.

Thanks.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely upvoted. Many clearly stated actionable points.

[–]Boesman12 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There you go. MRP explained in one post.

/u/RPAlternate42 you just managed to take two years worth of posts and answers and compiled it in one single post.

Maybe the mods can edit this and add it to the course prerequisites. This would have saved me 4 months of fucking around thinking I am the hottest shit because I swallowed the pill.

I also believe it might save the most noobs from nuking their marriages. Just my 2c.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This would have saved me 4 months of fucking around thinking I am the hottest shit because I swallowed the pill.

no you wouldn't have. the hamster of a weak male is somehow strong as shit.

[–]Boesman12 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't argue with that. But it is posts like this that is making me internalize what the pill is about. And everyday that helps me weaken my hamster. These posts makes me realize how far I still have to go.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

WTG on only mucking around for four months!

[–]Sadbeary 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Beautiful definition of IDGAF to end with. My wife is reading me as "I don't care about anything you do or say"; she said as much yesterday. She also said I was angry and I laughed "look at me, I am not angry in the slightest" "stony then" "maybe" he said slipping into her frame {sigh}

Selective indifference: i need to drill that into myself. Happy, chipper and altogether pleasant to be around: be this. EDIT though, curiously, she also stated that I am 'normal' with the kids and I think she was a bit jealous of that...maybe I am doing it better than I am giving myself credit for if I can pull off 'happy, chipper, pleasant' with the kids (as they aren't the ones giving me shit tests).

[–]stargazer35 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've been reading "His needs, her needs" lately. Its not red pill at all, infact theres stuff in there that would make you guys cringe! But it did make me theorise something of why our concepts of OI and work on yourself and be happy with yourself for yourself methods work.

The book presents that "most" womens primary need is for genuine affection from her hubby. Just like "most" blokes primarily need physical affection in the form of sex. Sounds easy to give a women affection, but its not as it has to be unconditional, ie not a lead up to sex. So most MRP newbies fail at this as they only give affection to get sex and have covert contracts about it. MRP teaching stops this needy behaviour and helps break this link between affection and sex.

However we alsosay if wifey doesn't put out withdraw attention. I found this had disasterous results. In my case though my newb mistake was to make the withdrawl too obvious. If its done covertly it might not have backfired as it did.

So in short I still subscribe to MRP but I am going to try to show the kind of unconditional affection she needs regardless of if/when we have sex. I supose you could say this can lead to rewarding bad behaviour but on the flip side if I screwed up and my wife didn't weaponise sex or withdraw it as a form of result/control I'd sure respect her alot more. So I think it warrents a trial at least.

[–]RPAlternate42[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The definitions you provided are garbage:

  • Men: need "Physical Affection"
  • Women: need "Genuine Affection"

What is "Genuine" and why is the woman's definition so much more broad than the men's specific physical descriptor. I'm having trouble not reading this as "Men only want sex and women want..." What? Nothing here defines what "Genuine Affection" actually is.

I'll tell you what it is and it's the line we hold here in MRP: "Genuine Affection" here is your TAC: Time, Attention, and Commitment.

I haven't read that book you are referencing, so I can't comment on the overall message, but it seems that it is looking for a equal relationship based on the idea of equal sexes. Do not fall into this trap: women and men are not equal biologically; men and women have different mating strategies and needs. Men want to spread seed far and wide and women want to secure the seed and commitment of a strong man.

A relationship is a form of the prisoner's dilemma game. There are two players: the man and the woman.

The man is "nice" and the woman is "nice" (He gives TAC and she gives sex) One day, the woman rejects his advances for sex (she is now "mean.") she is no longer giving her sex freely. The man, having been rejected, now withdraws his TAC from her; he is now "mean." He will remain "mean" (maintain a lack of TAC deliverance to her) until she is "nice" (releases her hold on the sex) and then he is "nice" again (releases his hold on TAC.)

3rd wave feminism (the BP narrative) would have you believe that we are to pay our TAC in exchange for sex. If anything, Feminism is creating this idea of exchange of commitment for sex, or rather, sex for commitment.

I can break down the types of men in the TAC-Sex exchange into four categories:

  • Feminized men: Readily give TAC even i the face of no sex. They believe that it is the man's duty to assist m'Lady at any and all cost. They don't get outwardly angry when they don't get sex because helping m'Lady is reward in itself; they see her quasi-attention as a replacement for sex.
  • "Nice Guy" Men: Give TAC in hopes of sex. When they don't get sex they get angry. Sometimes they try harder by giving TAC and sometimes they just get angry and try again with a different woman (because she is so much more different than the last one.)
  • True "Alpha" Men: They don't care about the exchange. Their TAC is valuable and they give it basically to no one. She can give as much sex as she wants and she will never get his full TAC. Eventually she tires of this (near-wall) and takes her sex somewhere else. He is fine because she is interchangeable with any other younger woman.
  • RP Men: Recognize the exchange is present and the underlying economy of TAC-Sex. We ride that current to our advantage and consciously "game" women for that advantage. We recognize everything that the "Alpha" knows, but while he doesn't know he knows it (most of the time he just being) we move to maintain that effect.

the main sub may disagree, but we are all looking to be the Alpha-provider. Any post where they discuss how best to keep to their plates... they are discussing how to be the Alpha-Provider for those plates (the plates won't stay "faithful" if they perceive no commitment to be possible.)

Men readily give TAC until sex is taken away. Don't misread this; this isn't the same as men giving TAC in hopes of sex. We give it unconditionally (without conditions) but will relinquish it when we don't get what we want. Just as she has no requirement to give us sex, we have no requirement to give her time, attention or commitment.

RP removes the feminized exchange of sex for TAC and replaces it with the natural order: TAC and sex (remember... she wants sex too.) Our strength is that we, biologically, only want sex whereas she wants the commitment and the sex.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter