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For about the last 2 months my wife and her sister have been talking about going away on a trip, just the 2 of them, no kids, no husbands.

From a tropical island to a greek island was mentioned. I did not pay it much heed, just dismissed it as daydreaming.

Fast forward to this week and she comes up with a plan. SIL lives in city A, we live in city B. SIL has to go to city C for bussines in 2 weeks time. My wife will fly there and join her for a long weekend. Now city C is a beautiful coastal tourist destination. Very nice, we have been there before.

Some background on SIL, she cheated on her fiance to marry her current husband, whom she has also cheated on. Her infidelity is still a secret and they don't know that I know about it.

In my blue pill beta past I would have encouraged this. Even offered to pay.This morning I sit my wife down and tell her I don't think her trip is a good idea. She gets into a huff and wants an explination. Knowing not to DEER I just say it is the kind of trip we should be going on, not her and her sister.

She now tries another tack, almost tearfully ' I never get to spend time with my sister' which is not true, we visit there or the come here a few times a year. I just shrug and say we can meet THEM halfway between City A and B for a niceweekend away, all of us, including her husband. Puff puff.

She now attacks my bachelor friend and me that go out to pubs. 'You act as if you are single!' I don't take the bait, just smile as if remembering a memorable evening out and say we are now talking about city C.

She still demands an explanation. Not wanting to be a total asshole I relent slightly, keeping in mind to stay in my frame and not to DEER too much. I tell her SIL is on a journey to discover herself. She is looking for a reason to end her marriage. Her husband doesn't give a fuck about her. It is not normal for couples to go on holidays separately.

If she thinks she is in the same boat as her sister and needs to go and "Find herself" (yeah I did the Dr Evil quote marks by hand) she can go but I will then take it as her and me being in the same situation as her sister and husband ie. Not giving a fuck about each other.

She became resigned, sighed, then she said she won't go. I was expecting her to be in a shitty mood for the rest of the day.

Now this field report might just seem like a little tiff to most of you, but for me, looking back where I started a few months ago, this is real progress. I knew when to talk, when to STFU, not to DEER and just stand my man.

Knowing about AWALT, and knowing how SIL bashes me in texts to my wife (Thats another story for another day) I can see no good coming from them going on a girls only trip. I said what I wanted without fear of upsetting my snowflake and being totally OI about it all. And the cool and calm frame from which it was delivered put it to bed.

And now? That was this morning, this afternoon she is herself, nice and friendly. I was expecting her to be bitchy. None of that. I am even suspecting, in a way she liked that I shut it down, she knows I care enough for her to stop her from going. Don't know about that but will see over the next few days.


[–]Renaissance__Man10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lots of binary discussion of "do you trust your wife not to cheat?" on one end and AWALT on the other.

Let's just assume OP knows his wife (and the SIL) better than us. OP actually walked the middle road—disapproving, but not giving her a hard no either. In the end the girls like being rescued from difficult decisions, she woke up happy that she could tell her sister she wouldn't be going, redirecting SIL's disappointment to OP who DGAF. Works everywhere from choosing restaurants to this.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have very obedient and well trained, submissive dogs.

Would I leave a steak on the table and walk a few feet away to take a call? Hell fucking no.

[–]vondergeist 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's great and all, but we're talking about people right now.

One of those awkward moments when I can't tell reddit from feminist tumblr.

[–]exbp 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice job. SIL bashes you because she's jealous of a stable relationship and she wants a wingman for her CC weekend. Maintain frame and drop hints about this. Your wife will decide on her own that you're the direction she wants to go.

[–]BluepillProfessor 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

she knows I care enough for her to stop her from going.

And BOOM goes the dynamite. Good work!

[–]itstartstoday123 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good reasons, held frame, set a boundary, let FO make their own decision. Most importantly you lead her to wise decision on her part. It's a good sign when she is responding to your leadership and has a good attitude the next day. Its good she RESPECTS your decisions.... No slash that opinions.

Your still headed up hill but now you have the traction/muscles to tackle the trail confidently.

Good report!

[–]Flathatter45 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you handled it well, but are you concerned at all that instead of accepting your (better) alternative that you go with her, that she dropped the whole thing?

[–]The_Litz[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We have other holidays and weekends away lined up as it is.

[–]FRedington-1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Be aware that your wife may simply disappear just before the trip was to start anyway. She's going on that trip one way or the other. She's prepared to deal with the consequences when she gets back.

[–]The_Litz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now that will be a new FR!

[–]buzzfeed20152 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

not to DEER and just stand my man.

?

[–]The_Litz[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

DEER = Defend Explain Engage Rationalise

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]jcrpta 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Vitally important you internalise that.

As soon as you're DEER'ing, you're in someone else's frame. You're conceding that they may have a point.

Really what you should be doing is ignoring them entirely and pressing on regardless.

[–]mostly_at_work 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Where is this from?

[–]cholomite 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice job. This is something I haven't really had to deal with yet but hopefully when it happens I'll be able to handle it as well as you did. The thing that trips me out about girls trips as opposed to guy trips is the focus of the activities. I have a TON of female relatives and have been able to go along on various trips with them. The focus of almost every activity is getting male attention and hopefully getting chatted up by an attractive guy. The actual activity itself (sightseeing, parasailing, swimming. ..etc) is always secondary. If my female relatives go out for something and there are no "cool people" (code for attractive guys) they will leave and find something else to do, even if the sightseeing or parasailing or whatever was perfectly fine. When me and my friends go do things, we just go and do them. If there are pretty girs around to talk to, that's great, if everyone else on the zip lining tour is a neckbeard dude or a gross girl, that's great too. We're there to go zip lining. I really liked the way you framed it and hopefully I'll have something that good if the time comes. Trying to explain to my gf what I just described above will never work. I guess the second best is just a solid "No".

[–]turn30left -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does it bother you that your wife was possibly planning to go to get some strange?

[–]BluepillProfessor 18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah, that was not the plan at all- it would have "just happened" and she would have found herself cheating through no fault of her own.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I cant upvote this enough, she would have swore nothing was wrong about the trip until a second before she got drilled by chad in her hotel room.

Then it would be her sisters fault

[–]exbp 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd guess she wasn't planning it so much as being led by a more dominant personality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she was planning it, then there would have been her telling him a lot of things directed to 'not a cheating vacation'

Because in her head, she has to convince herself of it. It's like when a plate tells you 'you know we aren't having sex today right?'

Just tells you exactly whats on her mind

[–]Griever114 2 points3 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

My one question is this... isnt he technically mate guarding? If she is gonna cheat, she will... she doesnt need a trip to do that. Her sister is gonna fuck someone and needs an accomplice.

How is that OI/IDGAF?

If she thinks she is in the same boat as her sister and needs to go and "Find herself" (yeah I did the Dr Evil quote marks by hand) she can go but I will then take it as her and me being in the same situation as her sister and husband ie. Not giving a fuck about each other.

this sounds counter intuitive. sounds like he is worried about her cheating. if thats the case, that sounds blue pill. his SMV should be high enough that she shouldnt but if she does, give her enough rope to hang herself and next the bitch.

im not arguing, just looking for clarification.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

boundry enforcement. In the end, we all know he can't stop her from going. But he can decide how to react to it.

You can go, but I'll assume you want out, and check out of this relationship.

Right there was the single line that made the difference here.

[–]Griever114 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I guess my point is, if the sister wasn't a cheater, what's the problem with her hanging out with her and going on a vacation?

I understand that he said he is fine meeting half way with them but I guess I'm confused. Is it because of the messed up sister?

[–]The_Litz[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

The prime concern is not cheating, problem is:

-SIL should be going on weekends with her husband

-SIL is pulling my wife into her little game. She has been going on these little trips for a about a year now.

-This will start a trend of girls weekends away. What next?

[–]Griever114 -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ok. I see.

Question. Of the sister in law wasn't a total skank. Would it matter?

[–]0io- 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it does. If SIL is a lonely spinster religious fanatic and they want to go to the Vatican to pray together, or sister in law is art-lover and they want to go to some famous museum together then there's really no problem at all, right?

"My cousin is a big cocaine fiend and I want to go to Colombia with him and his druggie friends," is a lot different from "my cousin is really into kickboxing and I want to go to Thailand with him."

The only reason this is a problem is because SIL is a skank and she's going out of town to hook up.

[–]The_Litz[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I gave this dicision a lot of thought before shutting it down. First off, I have been a Niceguy for a really long long time. In the past I would have told her to go in order to gain her acceptance. I had never imposed boundries in our relationship, being a drunk captain.

I ran the idea by 3 friends this past week. One total OI alpha, one blue beta bitch and one older alpha. They don't know that SIL is a cheater, and all three had the same response: Why do they need to go to city C to see each other? Without missing a beat.

[–]Griever114 -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They don't know that SIL is a cheater, and all three had the same response: Why do they need to go to city C to see each other? Without missing a beat.

I at least agree with this part. They sure are fuck dont need to go to a vacation to see each other/.

[–]KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm afraid you need to research this on therationalmale.com

GNOs are the final stages of a relationship. She has most likely already checked out of the relationship. She is looking for some strange. Remember that her neocortex may not realize this. Her brain stem and limbic system drive her bus. Look at all the studies showing how women dress differently during ovulation vs luteal phase, at how their attraction/arousal to their LTR during ovulation varies based on if he's perceived as alpha or beta.

tl;dr TRP is Science, bitches. Read up on it, esp stuff by David Buss and Martie Haselton.

[–]KyfhoMyoba -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If the sister in law wasn't a total skank. Would it matter?

Yes. Because she would soon become a total skank. That's what women do when outside the presence of their husbands for long periods. GNOs (as opposed to GNIs) are for one thing and one thing only, regardless of what rationalizations their neocortex may come up with: To be in the presence of alcohol and single, sexualized men without their husbands presence/knowledge.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's my understanding

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'm with you on this one. Downvoted elsewhere in the thread but the whole thing came across as a guy full of fear. If he had a sense of outcome independence then there wouldn't have been a field report.

[–]Griever114 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I did some digging and found the GNO debate from the Rationale male. OP did literally the exact opposite of the reading... this shit is confusing to hear conflicting things. Honestly, im saying, that while his SIL is a branch swinging whore, if his wife wants to cheat, she will. either with the sister or via a "friend."

The GNO Shit Test

The secret of the GNO (girls night out) shit test is, the truth of the matter is, that if a woman is determined to cheat on you, there’s really nothing you can do about it. You can protect your own genetic interests, but whether it’s on a GNO or with some guy from the office, if a woman wants to fuck, she’ll find a way to fuck and all the psychological, possessive arm twisting in the world wont change that desire. The covert message in this is what’s important.

Remember, a woman’s default is to communicate covertly. When you are indifferent to her proposition of a GNO it sends the message that you are confident enough in your own ability to replace her should she cross that line.

......

If I locked my wife/GF up in a closet that only gives credence to my insecurity about my relationship and changes the nature of my LTR. In fact, in doing so the frame automatically transfers to a woman the moment you become possessive, because you confirm for her that you lack the confidence to generate new options (i.e stimulate competition anxiety) – to be a man that other women would desperately want should she decide to cheat. You must be a Man that your GF/Wife doesn’t want to cheat on.

[–]reigorius 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she thinks she is in the same boat as her sister and needs to go and "Find herself" (yeah I did the Dr Evil quote marks by hand) she can go but I will then take it as her and me being in the same situation as her sister and husband ie. Not giving a fuck about each other.

The way I interpret this line and the context was that he knows what's up (SS Cheating on the horizon commanded by SIL) and he fired a warning shot off her bow.

He showed he is calm, cool and fine with the idea of his first mate checking out. Outcome independence. Basically saying she can GTFO and hop on SS Cheating, but there would be no coming back, without blinking an eye.

It doesn't surprise me the girl is happy the next day. He showed leadership by setting a clear boundary and the resulting consequences if she crosses it.

In his last paragraph Rollo explained what OP should do and OP delivered. Though his first mate considering checking is out a huge warning.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for finding that.
 
Contradictions, hyperbole, and an endless stream of frustrated men trying to give advice creates a lot of white noise. I ignored TRP for months because of it, delaying the improvements that I've since been able to make in my marriage. MRP is better than TRP main sub, but some threads still make me cringe.
 
In the end, it's a toolbox. We have to pick the right tools for a job. I'll stick with you and Rollo on this one.

[–]Glenbert 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Contradictions, hyperbole, and an endless stream of frustrated men trying to give advice creates a lot of white noise.

I think that's what makes these places so awesome. If anything is the fact that the main sub has become so lock-step that makes it less helpful, IMO.

[–]Redneck001 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In the end, it's a toolbox. We have to pick the right tools for a job. I'll stick with you and Rollo on this one.

Just like anything in life, get whatever you can from various sources and make a decision that works for you.

I'm I'm the minority here, and comfortable with that, but I'd be OK with the wife going. She's an adult, knows the consequences for fucking up, and it's her sister. The sister may be a raging crackhead, I don't see the wife following her lead.

I'm not going through life worrying about a wife tripping and falling on Chad's cock .

Besides, I think it's important that married couples spend time apart. And some of that time will likely be in the presence of the opposite sex.

IMO, telling my woman she can't go is the antithesis of IDGAF.

[–]Griever114 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, it is a toolbox. My take is that he DID make the right choice in retrospect. However, i think he needs to worry less about the SIL and start worrying a lot more about the wife. she seems to be slipping up. and that needs to be addressed.

[–]KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the only place where I differ from St. Rollo. I agree with him about all the implications of GNO, I just don't think that it's as hopeless as he seems to think that it is. IOW, I think that OP handled it well.

OTOH, OP, you're not out of the woods. Your wife wants to cheat. Her limbic system jumped on a chance to go out unsupervised, and that's not a good sign.

Up the Dread.

[–]Griever114 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP, you're not out of the woods. Your wife wants to cheat. Her limbic system jumped on a chance to go out unsupervised, and that's not a good sign.

Completely agree with this. she WANTED to go, which means OP needs to up his game.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He seemed to have altered it. Rollo's article said that if she starts doing GNO then you would slowly check out, but in this case he made it clear to her that he would be instead of letting her figure it out. It sounded similar to an ultimatum, but he even said there was no way to stop her from going.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He's saying that displaying insecurity is unattractive. There are good reasons and bad reasons to block a GNO.

[–]trp_dudeHard Core Red-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Mate guarding is recommended by Athol for married men. Mate guarding as DLV is typically for single guys.

[–]innergametrumpsall 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to mention the red flags here. Whether or not she was on board is irrelevant. It's like taking a trip to the liquor store with a guy who has a penchant for robbing stores.

"How the fuck did this happen?"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Since Red Pill, Ive never worried about cheating. If they cheat, they did me a favor. That beta feeling about, where is she, where, why, that shit kept me up at night. Now I dont give a fuck

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Im mostly with you, I know her actions dont hurt my value. Still, I think a bit of respect for hypergamy is in order. I can and do stomp on situations where my wife clearly has tingles. Its not out of fear, its more practical really.

And....no matter how enlightened we are there is an evolved instinct to not let your woman stray. The tactics may be a display if Idgaf but we are still men with emotion

[–]notmyusualreddit 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Im not married, but 31 and mostly do LTRs now. I know the stakes are MUCH higher married so my comment/question will sound juvenile.. but at the same time since the stakes are so high I EXPECT much more..

Isnt the fact she wanted to go at all a sign of something much deeper? Just squashing it doesnt solve the problem for me. As I read the post my nonmarried self thought "its already fucked.. now she has to cheat on her lunch break instead of on a trip" and I was thinking about how to get out of the whole thing.

The only way I see this being ok is if you started more liberal and bluepill and youre correcting ship slowly. But if I had married a chick that didn't do GNOs in the past, or knew my opinion of them in the past, and now wanted one, id count it as a huuuge sign.

[–]BucketOfSunshins 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Isnt the fact she wanted to go at all a sign of something much deeper?

Not necessarily. Hamster rationalization could just be telling her "Oh, I'm just going out with my sister!" while her uterus is screaming for strange, new sperm. People can convince themselves of all KINDS of things.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Isnt the fact she wanted to go at all a sign of something much deeper

Thats what all shit tests are.

[–]KyfhoMyoba -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

GNOs are about the biggest shit test you can get, so this is about the biggest sign you can get.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nothing there but win. Great example.

Its nice to see how these things play out in others. I'm sure a lot of guys, me included, would do it differently, so new perspectives gives food for thought. Clearly the female social matrix would have the SIL encourage the wife to consensus... And if she is strong, she might not take the bait. But if she was strong, then she would nope the fuck out of that idea to begin with.

Hell, I fully went in on the RP by having mine go off solo to a wedding. Almost nuked my life. Either way, theres a lot out there if she really wants to go. Rollos is my favourite.

  • Have fun, I'll see you when you get back. Then do dark; or
  • Have fun, I'll see you when you get back... Then operation divorce is a go.

[–]KyfhoMyoba -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nothing there but win.

Disagree. OP needs to up his Dread. That she brings this up is a Red Flag. Her limbic system is looking for ways to get strange.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe, he wasn't asking advice though, just showing his map in action, and holding frame , boundaries and in those, this looks like a good successful fr.

[–]patx123 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is not normal for couples to go on holidays separately.

Ahem

[–]Train33 -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Good job standing up to your wife about a potential problem, if that's progress for you then I hope you progress even more so.

Quick question though. Besides the fact that your SIL is a cheater and wants to go on vacation with your wife, why don't you trust your wife to not cheat? Has she maybe done it in the past ( if so that makes sense)?

I would think that holding her back would make her want to in fact do something even more if she had that intention and indifference would be the best card to play here. End result if that did happen is you discover you married a cheater also and you could move on with your life, right?

Just genuinely curious, thanks!

[–]RPAlternate42 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It's about boundaries.

OP is likely concerned that the combination of her SIL hamster and his wife's hamster may result in a "it just happened... It wasn't my fault... She brought the guys up" situation.

She even started to rationalize: "you act as if your single!"

She was already planning to pretend to be single.

OP isn't holding her back or stopping her. He told her that he doesn't think it's a good idea; he gave her his opinion... She's always free to ignore it.

[–]itsgavinc 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not only that, but even if she doesn't cheat, she might be an active accomplice in helping her sister cheat again. Nobody needs that. That's further detriment to her sister's marriage AND gives fuel to the hamster and lays groundwork for future cheating by his own wife.

Nothing prepares a woman for cheating like helping other woman cheat.

[–]RPAlternate42 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

More simply:

Her going somewhere as "support" for her sisters cheating tells her husband what she thinks about relationships. Even if she doesn't cheat, she sees the marriage as something disposable over a dalliance.

[–]itsgavinc 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, well said. Thank you.

[–]wakethfkupneo -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Girls nights out (let alone girls weekend out) is a shit test - simple as that. The only correct answer is NO. This is your final stance, <Gerard Butler's voice>this is where you hold them, this is where you fight. No DEER (I like that acronym), just a hint that if she decides to have it her way, then you're checking out -> there WILL BE consequences. Bonus points for demonstrating savviness in immediately recognizing the difference between harmless day lunch with sister or whatever and going to fuck locations with slut and no supervision.

And don't buy into that crap like "I never get to spend time with my sister". There are 1 million ways to spend time with sister and going to fuck market is not one of them. There was a woman I knew for years through mutual friend (I'll call her A) and worked with in the same building. Occasionally we'd small talk on breaks. Once she told me a story involving our mutual (beta) friend's wife (B) and her slutty soon to be divorced friend (C). So C was looking for company for fuck market aka 'girls nights out' and B happily obliged. Then B and C tried to convince A to join them as well. A's reaction was ... disgust ... I can still remember her face when she was telling me the story. When they asked 'why' she eventually replied 'my husband won't let me', not willing to go into a debate with freshly empowered cougars. She told me "what did they think I was" with a mix of rage and disbelief. That was in my pre RP days and I've replayed that episode many times in my head after unplugging. Just because they act naive doesn't necessarily means they are. I assure you they're not. They understand very well what it's all about. This is their area of expertise, the talent they were all born with.

What your wife really wanted to know is this: "Is my husband man enough to understand what this shit is really about? Will he let me or tell me NO?" Well played OP. Speaking of which ...

That was this morning, this afternoon she is herself, nice and friendly. I was expecting her to be bitchy. None of that.

I am not surprised. At all.

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Currently not in a LTR, but been in one for 11 years. But wow, never realised a GNO as going to a fuck market. The concept of forbidding your partner to go out late at night to cafés is foreign to me. And to be honest, creating a scenario where I say no, seems wildly possessive to me.

Where do you draw the line? The type of venue? Her friends you hardly know? Time she goes home?

Here in Holland I enjoy going out for a drink with my buddy. I can see a future partner wanting the same thing. But then again, if she suits up her slut suit and goes out with her slutfriends...

[–]wakethfkupneo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's hard to draw the line and probably no advice is good other than "use common sense". And since you're starting burden free (unlike most of us here who found RP after getting handcuffed) your best bet is to 'start from the beginning': screen early and screen hard. Party girl? Likes to go out a lot? Slutty friends etc? No committment! (or, god forbid, marriage). There are decent girls whose life doesn't revolve around night clubs. Then if that girl suddenly comes out with the idea of going out - you know what it is and what to do.

[–]SexistFlyingPig -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe the message she got was that she was worth fighting for and so her marriage is good and strong.

Good job man

[–]0kool74 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it is a very good thing that you managed to shut this shit down. I would not be surprised at all that she would have gone on the trip, be negatively influenced by the SIL, one too many drinks, and she accidentally slips on Chad's dick

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Funny, if my wife told me she was going on a girls weekend I would tell her to go for it. Would be a nice weekend off for me.

If my wife is going to cheat she can make it happen, girls weekend or no. And if she does, bye bye!

[–]RealEstateRockstar 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would've said for her to go as well and had a guys weekend

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The sister here is a bad influence. Hopefully OP doesnt lock her down from any and all outings

[–]KyfhoMyoba -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And if she does, bye bye!

On a GNO weekend, though, how would you know?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd find out eventually

[–]KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd find out eventually

Emphasis on the "eventually." After you'd irrevocably squandered time, resources, and attention on her.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand the fear of the girls' night out or girls trip.
 
If it's because of financial, work, childcare, or other important issues then it makes sense. If it is coming from insecurity and fear that she might cheat or her compatriots aren't on your side then it's a weak move.
 
This isn't the main TRP sub. It's time to get past the fear.

[–]dandar4600 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There are two camps to this in MRP. Those that feign OI and let her go on a GNO or a vacation without the husband, and those who don't. I am firmly with /u/TheLitz on this. Good field report.

Ps. Too many stories like this. The guy doesn't have to be better, he just has to be different.

[–]Archwinger 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the key right there.

Fucking married women is easier than fucking single 20-somethings. Most married women aren't looking for a good man to maybe get serious about. Just a dick for the night.

So you don't have to be the best man in the room, just better than one guy that she already hates and is planning to cheat on.

A woman who wants to take a vacation with a friend/relative that she knows is a slut/cheater is, at the very least, slightly open to the possibility. She knows the entire trip is going to be all about going to bars and clubs and pick-up locations, and even if she's not planning to cheat, she's planning to get hit on and enjoy the validation. And it doesn't take much for some guy who's not her boring-ass husband to seem special over a few drinks. And it doesn't take much to recognize that the husband will never know anyway.

Even if she doesn't cheat, she knows she's not going away on vacation with her slut sister to go antique shopping. She's going to be going out, drinking, flirting, and meeting guys, even if she "stays good." And casually flirting and giggling with other guys when you're married, knowing your husband isn't okay with you doing that but figuring he isn't there and won't know anyway, is pretty damn disrespectful to the marriage.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are two camps to this in MRP.

I know. I got into a lengthy debate about this during that GNO article thread. It was titled something like "keeping your spouse from cheating" or something like that. Many guys were like "do absolutely nothing", whereas I argued for a subtle underpinning of consequence that'd influence her to change her own mind.

If she thinks she is in the same boat as her sister and needs to go and "Find herself" (yeah I did the Dr Evil quote marks by hand) she can go but I will then take it as her and me being in the same situation as her sister and husband.

That's exactly what Litz did.

Edit: Found the debate. The link to it is here.

[–]user_none 4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

In the context of this discussion, I don't believe it's fear of a girls...whatever. His SIL is a cheater; that's the problem.

Cheating begets cheating. Women follow other women. Head it off at the pass.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

If he's got a low quality wife then yes. My wife has friends who have cheated, but they can hang out as much as they like, IDGAF.

[–]Flathatter45 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Low quality wife"? How does that square with AWALT? Anyway, if you have a high quality wife, if you don't object when she wants to hang around and party with trashy, low quality people, then she may not be high quality for much longer. Low quality wives can improve. High quality wives can dive into to the gutter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

AWALT is acknowledging the potential for women to do stereotypical things. She does something hurtful or annoying, you say AWALT to acknowledge that you should have known that it might happen. But not all women do all the things that people include in AWALT.
 
Some men are rapists and murderers. Some men cheat. Does that mean AMALT? No. That would be a ridiculous statement. Some men commit to a relationship and will not cheat. Some women are the same.
Not everyone acts on every impulse. My wife may find someone attractive on a night out and may see me as less attractive in comparison. She happens to not be a cheater and won't act on it (unless it's Hugh Jackman.) She'll just be a bit less enthusiastic about fucking me if she is faced with a better option. If she really wants to branch swing, she's the kind of girl who will say that she wants to end our relationship and move on. In other respects she displays AWALT behaviors and I have to be aware of it.
 
I suspect that there are a disproportionate number of shitty wives in the relationships that lead men to the Red Pill. Regardless of sexual strategy those women are likely to continue to be cheaters and nagging harpies, but maybe in a more tolerable and minimal fashion if the guy uses the Red Pill tools.
 
I happen to know many women who are logical, methodical, and honorable. I also know many who aren't. AWALT is a warning but it shouldn't be taken literally. There are guys like /u/whinemoreplease who knew about the Red Pill and chose a good wife accordingly. It is possible.

[–]KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

they can hang out as much as they like, IDGAF.

Birds of a feather, dude.

[–]Realworld52 -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

AWALT, you my friend are fooling yourself.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Amused mastery, outcome independence, confidence, high SMV. If you lack all of these, then I suggest you cower in the corner, clutching your wife, trying to prevent her from noticing the attractive and confident men around her. Continue to be controlling since you know that other men will be more appealing than you. Install tracking apps on her phone. Hire a PI. Block attempts at GNO's. Be the fearful beta.
I'll be just fine with my wife out in the world.

[–]Realworld52 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

AWALT and denying that is your mistake. Acting like no one can fuck your wife is your ego getting in the way of reality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

You do like absolutes. A touch of Aspergers perhaps?
Is it possible that she might meet some celebrity while drunk and touch his junk? Sure, it's possible, but it's not very likely. If she does, then she hits the curb. IDGAF. That's OI.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thats exactly what OP did.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

He may have been outcome independent about upsetting her, but not about whether she was going to go on the trip. That's the bigger issue. His frame is weak enough that he sees the SIL and the trip as a threat that he can't handle. He was so fucking excited that she decided not to go that he posted a field report on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Would you let her go with some random dude, an orbiter? How about a drug dealer friend

Or is your frame strong enough for that too?

[–]KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she does, then she hits the curb.

You'll never know, though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's not a fear, it's just all the single guys from TRP are noticing a lot of their strange was coming from them, and discussed it with married guys, and come to that conclusion. It's a risk.

Also, it's not a fear of GNO. If right after a stressful time, sisters go out and hit the town, then fine. "Have fun, I'll see you when you get back". If it was happening every weekend, then it's a bigger issue.

But flying across the country, specifically to get away from the spouse... that has meaning all over it.

Guys can up and go to vegas, but life isn't equal. Pussy doesn't come without effort. Dick does

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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