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One of the "truths" that instantly turned my marriage around was changing my reaction to her incessant complaining.

Last night is a good example of what I am talking about. One kid pee d the bed at 130am...took me an hour to change his Pjs and sheets and fall back asleep. Then at 330 another kid cried with earache. Had to get that kid medicine and luckily I fell back asleep by four.

Then this morning wife complains she didnt sleep well. Is tired etc....

The old bluepill me woulda lost it. I took care of both kids all night and you were sleeping and now telling me YOU are tired????

Today I just laughed. "You sure looked peaceful when I dealt with em both last night" maybe we should get you a hotel tonight so you can sleep ok princess?"

No matter what. Do not let her upset you. Be unaffected emotionally. Dont do shit for her that she should do for herself but when she complains just listen and offer empathy at best. Amused mastery works too


[–]a_scourge10 points11 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

This cannot be said enough. I've been working on my frame for a while now but I totally lose it when illogical wingeing and complaining like that comes from my wife. Sometimes I even let it show. Literally biting my tongue is going to have to be my next resort if I can't learn to just hide my thoughts.

[–]alpha_n3rdMarried5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Don't. Get. Angry.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You get angry and you are waving a flag that says

Baby..I can't be happy if you are unhappy. I'm not a man. I'm a fucking betafagbootlickingpussy.

[–]a_scourge2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the constant reminders. I've literally spent the last 12 hours in and out of her frame. It's been 12 hours of non-stop fighting, and every few minutes I'm waving the betafagbootlickingmangina-notaman flag. It's hard because she can tell that I have a frame now and I'm able to hold us in it (sometimes) so it's a constant battle. If I know her fairly well, she's just refusing to give up something (the ability to control my happiness and all our conversations). And she's by nature very strong willed.

[–]Moldy_Gecko1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Amen, that's what It's like for me atm. Trying to pull my wife into my frame is a struggle. I have been beta for a long part of this marriage and after almost divorcing, I am on the tight rope, trying not to slip.

[–]rediscover03Unplugging0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hang in there man... in similar boat. Wife currently going apeshit and pulling all kinds of drama to get my attention and get me to think of "her needs" etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You need to realize that she can't control your happiness or the conversations you are having. You have given her this power and control

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I totally lose it when illogical wingeing and complaining like that comes from my wife

Fog that shit. Seriously. Fogging (WISNIFG). I can do it now without thinking much, I might be able to do it while in a comma. Fogging is a form of validating her emotions without giving anything that she can latch on to take it on you. AN I just fog fog fog, and when I'm bored by it, or it is too much, I transition fogging into an Agree & Amplify with a bit of humor welcoming her to join my frame of humor.

[–]a_scourge0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I need to read WISNIFG then. I'm halfway through NMMNG and SGM. You're probably right, that I need to fog. So far I've just been A&A and either humouring her into my frame or if I totally fail, trying to force her to get in my frame.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I found WISNIFG to be the most useful of all the books. Specifically to help me understand my rights to do and feel however I want

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

After reading that book, a lot of the concepts about shit tests became less useful for me, as i thought their categorical divisions weren't so important. What is important is my frame of being comfortable of feeling how i do, and the stuff to pass shit tests flows from that. I find myself I need to barely think before hand which way to pass the shit test. In fact, now I don't see the shit test, i see through it, and it is very obvious what to do from my frame.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't force her to get into your frame. That only leads to frustration on both sides. All you can do is stay in your frame, comfortably and unmoved so she realizes her frame won't work, and then she chooses to join yours. A way to make your frame easier for her to accept is to just have fun with it so she is more inclined to join in the fun instead of missing out on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I just finished WISNIFG and when I got to that section on fogging, I was like 'Oh, that's what they mean by A&A.' I been trying it on the wife but I run into broken record territory and then she turns into a broken record and it devolves into a petty game of tennis. Next thing I know I'm operating in her frame. Mostly, I think it's my delivery and she can see right through the fog and realize I'm just pissed. What was that movie? '40 Year Old Virgin' - Be David Caruso in 'Jade'. Okay I know that's probably an extreme example and from limited understanding is a take on amused mastery.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

section on fogging, I was like 'Oh, that's what they mean by A&A.'

Not exactly. Fogging is non-emotional and not intended to be funny/humorous. It is true that in both fogging and A&A you validate her emotions without getting drawn into them but these are 2 very different techniques

Fogging is another name for reactive listening (I think they call it that) where you speak in Femineeze and don't offer solutions or become emotional. You just validate her and respond non-judgmentally: "Yes dear, I can see that would be upsetting." When you repeat it over and over again it becomes "Broken Record."

A&A is the go-to response for Shit Tests. This is not speaking in Femineeze but draws on the masculine frame of making a joke out of the darkest times and is a way to draw her into your frame. This is why the PUA's discovered it because drawing the girl into their frame increased the chance of the lay by a LOT. Works the same way in a LTR or marriage. You do NOT (usually) validate her with A&A but is used to show that you are not affected by her and that in fact her concerns are not important/ridiculous etc:

She says: "You were supposed to take out the trash. Now we are going to have mice....Blah, blah."

A&A response: "Don't worry, I set out rat traps. With any luck we will have plenty of varmints to eat this week."

Amused Master Response: [Scratching her behind the ears] "You are so cute when you nag."

Fogging: "I can see that you are upset I forgot to take out the trash."

For ALL these, the important thing is to not get emotionally charged and certainly don't get "pissed." Being pissed is HER frame. Being the cool, in charge guy who is not affected by her antics or her monthly emotional roller coaster is YOUR frame.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fogging... don't offer solutions or become emotional

 

That makes a lot of sense. It's like after reading this material, my gut reaction is go out and practice without a true understanding of it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fogging is just agreeing with person. The power is that their accusation doesn't phase u

Wife...you didn't have to go to gym for three hours and leave me with kids

Me..you are right. That was a long time

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fogging is for letting her hamster without affecting you. You must have frame. If your frame betrays you she will then fight against your lack of frame.

When you get tired, do A&A and really amplify it to make it over the top.

[–]CruiseCruise 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

could you give an example of fogging, please

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Please, read "When I say now, I feel guilty". Fogging is one of the essential techniques there to not lose frame when wife tries to fight. There are other techniques. If I try to summarize Fogging, it will not be sufficient, you will try it, you will do it wrong, and then you will think I'm full of shit. Read WISNIFG.

With that warning out of the way, Fogging is the tactic of, when someone tries to start a fight about something, you don't give them anything to fight against, you don't push back, you are just a fog, leave them hitting the air.

For example:

Wife: This toilet needs to be cleaned. (Impliying "I'm tired of doing my chores, so I'll bitch about this chore, and when you ask, I will then accuse you of never cleaning the toilet, and complain about how many chores I do, and when you tell me what chores you do, I'll dismiss them, say you don't care about me, blah blah blah).

Me: (Fogging) I see.

Wife: I just have too much to do, just too much with this and that and that.

Me: (Fogging) Yeah, you are very busy.

Wife: And then with you traveling for work those days last week instead of being here...

Me: (Fogging) It is difficult for you.

Etc. The key is that you ignore the implied accusation, you don't bite, you don't defend yourself. If you do, you give her something to fight against. Give her nothing, be a Fog, immaterial. The best way to do this is to find something bland about what she is sayign that you can agree to, and stick to this.

This is very hard to do, so do read the book, please. I think i've become a master of this now, and i can transition from this to "agree and amplify" very smoothly, and end the conversation that way.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Gawd, I'm so amateur RP still. I fall into this trap all the time. It's frustrates me so much. I just want to figuratively drop kick my wife sometimes. She can see it in my face. It takes every bit of my being to not to engage but I still fail.

[–]Chrysoscelis3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm right there with you. I was married and unhappy for 6 years before I found TRP. Habits get formed and it doesn't help that no one on this planet can piss me off more than my wife.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The only thing I have going for me is unplugging early in my marriage even though I've absolutely shot myself in the foot prior to swallowing.

[–]Moldy_Gecko1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I made a mistake in the beginning of my redpill journey and thought It's all about spinning plates. Got caught and we signed papers but discussed not divorcing. If not for marriedredpill, I don't think I would have actually learned how a redpill marriage functions and I am trying to train her while not going too far to make this divorce happen. I am not really concerned about the outcome, but I would prefer my daughters raised by two parents.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Consider posting your full story. How people find TRP and MRP is always edifying and your path is common. I think a LOT of unplugging men in a LTR are faced with a decision point between plate spinning and repairing their LTR.

TLDR: Learning to recover from a decision to cheat and spin plates and instead repair a LTR would be an interesting story.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

or how about doing both plate spinning and marriage repair AND loving every minute of both....

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are going to lose frame that is when you need to leave. If you don't have any other place to go then that is your problem. Reconnect with some bros or make some friends. Once you have a place to go and you know that you can leave for a more peaceful place any time you want it becomes easier to deal with a screechtard.

[–]Dev_onLTR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do on occasion, but it usually involves being micromanaged.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

You must see women for how they truly are. Emotionally sensitive and insecure by nature. Much like a child. You can't expect a woman to behave in the same way as a man. Learn the differences and accept the differences. Sure, it sucks having to deal with emotional outbursts and complaints but you're a man, you should be able to handle your own burden and hers. You are her stability, her rock, her leader, her everything.

[–]Dev_onLTR1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the only thing that gets me... And this is a pretty horrible staement, but.

Every time I see 'difference' it's never in a way thats objectively better for any situation whatsoever.

Handling dogs with extra energy? loses it.
Barriers at work? Loses it
Cupcakes for boss birthday not ordered yet? Loses it

I'm glad she earns good enough coin, because those guys with stay at home wives, can't help but think of it as an investment. about as sound as buying a brand new luxury car

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I could award a point...I would

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm absolutely in the anger phase and am struggling to get out. We just had another altercation and here I am sitting with my thoughts. I feel parts of my brain are being accessed that are synonymous with getting into a bar fight with an obnoxious dude. I think it's just time and conditioning that's going to save me.

[–]I_AMA_Naughty_BoyMarried1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Feel the anger flow through you. Feel how it feeds your adrenaline. Feel it harden your strength and resolve. Take that strength and go to the gym and fucking lift some heavy shit.

Capture your weakness and make it your asset.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fck, you're right. I'm a gym rat but skipped tonight. I did have a good talk with my brother in lieu of it. She came home and I was Mr. Cool, so it was good to vent all that frustration to a literal bro.

[–]Dev_onLTR-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I loved 'most responsable teenager in teh house' for that. I found the only reason to get angry is because it's a peer not pulling their weight. Once you get the 'peer' thing out of your head, it becomes the captain dealing with drunken sailors, and not you and the XO arguing over whether you should launch the nukes

[–]RBuddDwyerMarried- MRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And that, newbies, is called Female Solipsism.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you can avoid arguments with amused mastery and selective attention (aka blow out shit tests) AND you handle sexual denials with cool aloofness and removing your attention, THEN things will likely begin changing for you pretty quickly. If you are also getting in shape and lifting like a madman, reading the books, and practicing cold approaches/flirting with hot girls, then you are pretty much with the entire program. It's not rocket science guys.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sooooo true

many men think LTRs are hopeless or a bad idea....they have a point but remember that Men (not betabitchboys) have a weapon:

The threat that your exclusivity is completely conditional on her acting in ways that please you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This concept has been key for me. It shows a couple of things

  1. I am in control at all times of my own well being. If I am tired, I take care of it. sick? I take care of it.

  2. I do what it takes to lead the family. Kids are sick? I take care of it.

  3. I don't mind her complaining but it doesn't phase me or change my actions. She can complain. She can vent. "Yeah, that does suck." I don't argue because its a waste.

My wife started to see ALL the shit I do around the house after I followed this concept. Amused mastery is fun too. I think the key is giving your SO space to realize how much you deserve respect. Whining and fighting just shows her you are not worth respecting.

I love you asking her if she needs a hotel. hah. So fun.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This man gets it and is likely enjoying a wife that complains LESS.

You see....they act whiny and pissy. You hold frame. Refuse to be dragged into it. Be cheerful. They immediately adopt your frame.

[–]crayonsred1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

Talking it out solves nothing.

[–]ProjectShamrock0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

You know, technology can help too. My wife and I both have fitbits and we have some friendly competition with the number of steps we take each day. It also can track your sleep.

So two of my kids have been really sick this week and we've chosen to divide and conquer. However, we both are realistically not sleeping well, but we don't directly see the other being awake. Thanks to tracking sleep, I can see that she got more sleep than me, and that she didn't wake up as many times as I did. Even though she is dealing with the kid that has puked and has the higher fever, the one I'm dealing with wakes up coughing at least once an hour if not more and I have to help him because he's a toddler and can't get his own water.

So in my case, I like to be a "smartass" as my wife calls it, and simply look at our statistics on the computer and says, "huh." when I know she's looking at it over my shoulder. Nothing else needs to be said because the objective facts speak for themselves.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

"Proving" shit to your wife validates whatever stupid shit she says.

Don't do that. All she hears is a whining boy.

"You never put the toilet seat down"

Yes I did...I installed a sensor that proves I did 96percent of the time. Your aaccusation bothers me enough to take time to prove to you I am worthy

Or...

Knock it off. I forgot

Which do you think generates respect and tingles?

[–]Dev_onLTR1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I had one of those moments. She got pissy because she 'fell in' and was so mad. I didn't even have to try to hold frame, I was laughing so hard, she couldn't even keep up her bitching.

Pretty hard to stay mad at someone when they can't stop laughing at you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

one of the remarkable (and alluring) qualities of women is their ability to almost instantly "change" from one emotion to another. I have see it happen in miliseconds

This is why you can and should ignore the crocodile tears.

[–]Dev_onLTR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't keep up if I wanted to.

[–]rediscover03Unplugging0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

seriously, my daughter does it all the time. It's hilarious.

[–]XXXmormon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been talking about this with a friend. Seeing my girlfriends emotions just flick like someone threw an industrial switch, and suddenly they are barreling down a different emotional path in the opposite direction.

[–]ProjectShamrock0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Proving" shit to your wife validates whatever stupid shit she says.

In general I think you're right, it's just that in this specific case I already had the information in front of me (I bought us both fitbits to create competition with her to ensure that she gets enough exercise) and the sleep tracking is automatic.

In general though I ignore whining and walk away when she's doing it so I can do some other activity that I want, or make a flippant comment to shut her down. One of the main things I've learned from reading the materials here is that I should never participate in useless conversations and especially venting/whining.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hear you but this isnt the optimum response.

women despise logic--- they DO understand and respond to the language of power

[–]ProjectShamrock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

women despise logic--- they DO understand and respond to the language of power

I completely agree, and I'm not trying to give the impression that my wife is immune to emotion but she is more familiar in trusting with stone cold logic than most. To look at her credentials objectively, she graduated from college at the top of her class with a computer science degree and she's excellent with mathematics. AWALT obviously still applies and emotions are her main driving factor.

That being said, I rarely explain myself to her anymore unless I need her to take action on something and she needs to understand the context. She is definitely happier when I'm confident and calm, and a little bit of a smart ass, and not bothering her with my detailed decision process or telling her about all the drama of my job.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

objective facts

And she accepts that?? /s

[–]ProjectShamrock1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And she accepts that?? /s

She's intelligent and has a degree in technology, so she accepts it but it irritates the shit out of her and I think she struggles to come up with an emotional response to flip it around before giving up and accepting the facts. All that happens silently in her head within a matter of seconds.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro..I think she silently thinks your weak.

I say it with love.

Stop providing evidence to your wife about your efforts around house...when she bitches that I do so much and you don't appreciate it...yada yada had a

Tell her this..."stop it"

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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